Sand Patch Grade Banking Comm

Discussion in 'PlayStation Discussion' started by Mat_Jam_Ca, Apr 3, 2021.

  1. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Hi there,

    Please can someone detail how to set up the lead and trail locomotives (SD-40, GP-38 and ACW4400) step by step so that the banking comm works in Sand Patch Grade. Currently running the Fully Fuelled scenario and going up the grade I’m barely getting above 13mph.

    Please note this has to be a very basic ‘for dummies’ guide as I don’t have much experience of Sand Patch Grade at all.

    Thanks in advance :love:
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
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  2. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

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    just press the banking comn worked for me got over 15 mph sometimes
     
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  3. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I pressed that in the SD-40, but nothing seemed to change.
     
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  4. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Check out the guide by breblimator which you can find in his signature. It‘s a table that details which switches need to be in what setting.

    One thing I can already tell you is that the SD40-2‘s radio fuse is off by default. It needs to be on in both the lead unit and the lead unit of the rear DPUs.
     
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  5. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Cool. Thanks.

    In his guide, it just says Trail or Dead. What Trail setting should be used as there are two different ones I think.
     
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  6. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Where is the distributed power fuse in the GP38?
     
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  7. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    We‘re talking about the MU valve, right? The three settings are Lead or dead, Trail 6 or 26, Trail 24. The difference between the trail settings are the way the brakes are set up. In general, self lapping brakes are a 6 or 26 system while manually lapped brakes are a 24 system. For SPG, you only need 6 or 26. For the F40 in SFJ, you‘d need 24.

    There isn‘t one. From what I understand, the distributed power fuse controls actual, real remote control for the DPUs in real life with which the AC44s are equipped. For the older GP38-2 and SD40-2, you need two crews which is simulated by the banking comm. Long story short - you only need to worry about the distributed power fuse in the AC44.
     
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  8. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    I hope you managed to, matjamca!
    5alex.j.c & Lamplight \o/

    I can see the preparations for the CRR in full swing :)

    PS
    Journey is well made and good for going into SPG deeper and deeper :)
    Some scenarios are broken sometimes - be prepared!
     
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2021
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  9. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Good popular advice, once you have set everything up - check on the external camera, through the window, how you move the throttle, if all the locomotives react, generate tractive force:

    POWER.png

    You can check Rulf's resources for some good guides for SPG too!
     
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  10. appledates#4945

    appledates#4945 Well-Known Member

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  11. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    The guides I’ve been referred to are really quite helpful, but I am still struggling to know which switches I need to select in each locomotive to ensure they’re fully set up - especially the AC4400CW.

    I know it’s possibly a big ask, but can a forum member with experience of Sand Patch Grade do a written or video based step by step guide of how to set up each locomotive (SD40-2, GP38-2, AC4400CW and C40-8W) as a lead, trail and bank.

    For example:

    1) Sit in the drivers seat of locomotive A
    2) Press X, Y, Z
    3) Open the fuse cabinet on the rear wall
    4) Press A, B, C

    And so on.

    A video demonstration would be awesome. The scenarios ‘Fully Fuelled, Ice and Snow and Powering America Part 2’ have a great range of locomotives in various configurations (front and rear of consist), so a step by step guide setting up every locomotive in those scenarios would be extremely useful. I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t just be me who would benefit from such a guide.

    Hoping someone will be kind enough. Thanks in advance :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
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  12. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    You're lucky it's Christmas. Until tomorrow I promise to record something, although my experience is zero. I hope someone competent in audio-video processing will anticipate me. My version will be subtitled (I don't speak English at all) as long as I know how to put them in the video :D

    PS Matt seems to be doing this series of tutorials, but I don't think he's made it to the SPG yet :)
     
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  13. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I can try to record something as well. I think my English is fairly comprehensible so I could do it with voice over instead of subtitles. Since I haven‘t got any experience in editing either, it won‘t be pretty with title screens or stuff like that. Wish you luck, breblimator :)
     
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  14. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Well this is prose, not video, but I'll give it a go:

    Understand that we are setting up two things conceptually here: an MU or multiple unit, that is, two or more engines directly coupled together (almost every service in SPG puts you in a 2-loco MU); and DP or Distributed Power, two or more locos or MUs distributed along the train, separated by cars: in game, this almost always takes the form of four locos in two MUs, top-and-tail, although in this scenario there is only one helper: a #3 but no #4.

    We'll start with the GP38 and SD40 together since the controls and procedures are identical. And we'll start with getting an MU configured, then worry about DP (technically, these older locos aren't using "Distributed Power," which means an automated setup, but we'll use the term anyway).

    There are two systems that need to be set up, the engine and the brakes. The engine is easy: make sure that in the lead cab, the Engine Run, Generator Field and Fuel Pump Control switches (on the control stand, above and to the right of the throttle) are on, and that in the trailing or slave loco(s), that at least Generator Field is off (the other two are optional). What this does is disable the slave locos' engine control (the switches when turned Off don't turn off the engine or generator or fuel pump; what' you are turning off is that cab's control stand) and puts it all in the hands of the lead loco's driver.

    To set up the brakes, in the lead cab set the MU2A valve (brake stand, near the floor) to "Lead (or Dead)" and the cut-out valve (just under the auto brake handle) to "Freight" (there are actually times you might want "Passenger," but don't worry about that now). This puts the lead loco in control of the brakes for the whole train. OTOH, in the trailing cab, leave them in their default positions, Cut Out (which disables the brake handle), and "Trail 6 or 26" (all CSX locos in service today have 26L brake systems). Note that the brake system is rather different from the engine controls, in that is not an electronic system but rather a pneumatic system which controls all the brakes on every car on any train, MU, DP or single loco, all connected by the Brake Pipe.

    In any MU of whatever length, so long as the engines are all coupled together continuously, this setup puts the lead cab in control. The physical vector is the "Standard 28-pin Cable" Matt keeps going on about: each loco is plugged into the next one, so that so long as they're directly connected the control signals are passed from the lead back down the cable to the rest of the MU.

    Now, what about a DP, helper or banking situation, that is, when the locos are not all directly coupled? Well, basically you are setting up two MUs, with an imaginary AI crew in the lead cab of the banking or helper MU. The AI engineer will be operating his throttle according to the instructions you are sending him verbally by radio. So, the trailing MU's trail unit (#4) should be set up exactly like #2. In the lead cab of the trailing unit (that's #3 in most setups), the three engine control switches need to be On just like in your cab. The brakes however are slightly different- the automatic (train) brake is designed to run the length of the train and be controlled from the lead, no electronics involved, so BOTH helper MU locos' brake controls need to be left cut-out and trailing, like loco #2.*

    Now, the crucial element in a DP setup: banking comms. This means radio comms, so the radio fuse in the fuse box in each MU's lead loco (that would be #1 and #3 in the scenario) must be turned on. Then -and this shopuld be the very last thing you do in setting up- the banking comms button in the lead (your) cab, only, should be turned on. What you are now simulating is you using the radio to tell the helper unit's driver what throttle and dynamic brake settings to use.

    Procedure (GP38 and SD40):

    Start in the rearmost engine (#4). You can 'teleport' between cabs to save a long, long walk, although I don't know what the PS4 buttons are for this.
    • Verify (default setup should be correct) that
    • [EDIT!] Generator Field is off
    • Brake cut-out valve is cut out
    • MU2A valve is in Trail 26
    • Optional: turn on Front Number Plates (on the rear cab wall). Set the light control selector to "controlled by another unit coupled at either end" **
    Now, move to the #3 cab, the lead loco of the helper pair.
    • Verify that the brake handle is cut out and the MU2A is set to Trail 26 (the manual is wrong).* The lead cab (you) controls the air brakes for the whole train
    • Engine Run, Generator Field and Fuel Pump/Control are on. The AI driver is handling his own throttle.
    • The Radio/HOTD fuse (in the fuse box on the back wall) is ON. It's often off by default, and MUST be turned on for DP to work.
    • Optional: Set the light control to "Controlling another unit coupled at the long hood end," and the rear headlight control to Dim.**
    On to loco #2. This one is easy: just like #4, except all the lights stay off. Default setup should be correct, but verify it.

    Finally, back to your (lead) cab.
    • Engine Run, Generator Field and Fuel Pump/Control turned on
    • Brake cut-out to Freight
    • MU2A valve to Lead (or Dead)
    • Radio/HOTD fuse ON.
    • Finally, Banking Comms (the radio is mounted to your left, above the brake handle) ON. This is modeling your talking to the helper pair's driver.
    • Turn on front headlight and ditch lights. ***
    • Optional: set Front Number Plates to On.
    This should give you a functioning DP setup any time you are using EMD locomotives. You can verify while in motion by using the 3 camera to look in the other cabs' windows: the ammeter should read the same in all four engines. (Note: you cannot use the "ear test" reliably, because due to a bug sometimes trailing engines produce the "idle" sound even at full power)


    The AC4400 is conceptually the same WRT the brakes; the only thing that differs is where the controls are. On the other hand, in real life Dash-9 and later locomotives are set up for true DP remote control so you aren't simulating an AI driver back there on the throttle. But remember, unless BOTH lead locos are AC4400s, you are back to imaginary AI crew in the helper unit.

    Procedure (AC4400CW)

    Cab #4:
    • Set (or verify) the brakes as above (Cut Out and Trail), but this time the controls are in the MFD screen, under (surprise!) Air Brake. Remember to press Save, or your changes won't take.
    • Verify that Generator Field (lower left side of the control desk) is off
    • Turn the DP fuse (back wall) OFF.
    • Optional: turn on number plates and set the selector to "Short hood trail" **
    Cab #3:
    • Brakes as in #4
    • Engine Run, Generator Field and Fuel Pump (by your left knee) On.
    • Verify the Radio fuse is ON
    • Turn the DP fuse ON [EDIT: actually, not necessary.]
    • Optional: set light selector to "Short hood lead" and turn the rear headlight to Dim
    Cab #2: as #4, but with no lights

    Cab #1:
    • In the MFD, set the brakes to Cut In (no passenger option here), and Lead. Don't forget to press Save.
    • Engine Run, Generator Field and Fuel Pump ON.
    • Verify the Radio fuse is ON
    • Turn the DP fuse ON
    • Set front headlights to Bright Auxiliary ***
    • Optional: turn on Number Plates (back wall)
    • Finally, turn on Banking Comms (the radio is mounted above the windshield).
    _______________________________
    *This is the opposite of what the game manual says, which has the MU2A set to Lead. For game purposes, the manual is wrong, but it would be correct in real life: the driver in the helper MU would have direct control of that MU's independent brake (which only applies to those two locos, not the rest of the train)

    ** In US practice, a locomotive at the end of the train has its rear-facing number plates and headlight illuminated.

    *** By law, ditch lights must be on on any lead engine which crosses grade crossings outside of a yard. An engine without functioning ditch lights is restricted to 20 mph
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  15. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    That guide has made things a lot simpler. Just one question, in the scenario Powering America Part 2, the consist has two AC4400CW’s at the front (one facing forward and one facing to the rear) and one (facing to the rear) at the back. Would the AC4400CW at the back of the consist be set up as a lead (#3) or trail (#4) seeing as there is only one and it’s facing backwards?
     
  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It's a lead (#3), just without a #4 slave loco. A trail by itself that isn't coupled to a lead can't do anything! Being backwards, the only difference would have to do with the lights if you want to mess with them; acc to standard US practice, a loco at the back of the train should have its rear-facing number plates and headlight on.
     
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  17. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I put together a video, matjamca. It seems that solicitr already put together a detailed post, but seeing how I already invested the work, I'll share it anyway:



    I hope this is still of use to you. I may pack it in my signature if someone could just watch it and pass along whether it actually was helpful or not. I tried my best to explain what needs to be done. Let me know.

    Edit: corrected grammar
     
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  18. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    It is always like that:
    only 1 per train Head Lead Loco with brakes 'ON' (A) + 1 lead DPU (B) for each group (that one closer to the front of the train)
    others are always trails (C) eg

    A..C..[CONSIST]..B..C
    A..C..C..[CONSIST]
    A..C..[CONSIST]..B..C..[CONSIST]..B..C
     
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  19. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    You have teaching skills! Sehr gut! \o/
     
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  20. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Hi Lamplight,
    Thanks for the video. I’ll check it out later. Some people learn better reading stuff, others by watching stuff so having both posts will be helpful to everyone who sees this thread. Knowing how things work properly really improves the immersion and experience, so players can get the most enjoyment out of it.
     
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  21. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for your kind words :)
     
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  22. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Interesting- it never occurred to me that with the banking pair it doesn't matter which loco is lead or which is trail, but I guess it doesn't! I have always set up #3 as lead, but apparently #4 works just as well.
     
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  23. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. I always set up #4 as lead since that would (to my mind) enable the real crew to get back down the grade a little bit quicker and since TSW puts you in #4 when selecting the attach the helpers service. No idea what's more prototypical though.
     
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  24. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Seine Englisch ist ausgezeichnet!
     
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  25. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    One tiny quibble on the light setup in the video: the #2 engine is an intermediate unit and ordinarily wouldn't show any lights. In theory, you could treat #3 the same way and just turn on the rear light in #4, but I've been putting the control of the lights where the imaginary crew are.
     
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  26. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I always set up the light controls as if the locos were alone. Of course, #2 and #3 don't show any lights, but when #3 and #4 head back down, you'd (hypothetically) need to set up their lighting controls correctly. Same thing for #1 and #2. At some point (not in the game), they'll uncouple and need their lighting controls to be set up correctly. That's why I always do it :D

    Thank you very much :)
     
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  27. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    It can be assumed that the train is constructed of one or more of these 'modules' (sub-trains), when we talk about delivering power:
    Engine Run, Generator Field & Fuel Pump are ON for lead and OFF for trail (slave) locomotives.

    [lead loco][trail loco][..consist..][..consist]... << module
    [lead loco][trail loco][..consist..][..consist]...[lead loco][trail loco][..consist..][..consist]... etc

    When it comes to brake settings, there is ALWAYS only one lead loco (proper valves settings) - this one on the front.

    EDIT Sometimes there are simply no wagons behind the DPU, other times it is inside - it depends on the number of cars and the degree of slope of the tracks.

    IRL procedure (brakes) is: set all locomotives as trail and only after that set head and as lead.

    check page 89 (attached file) * TSW works exactly that way \o/ proud-simulation? :D

    Great posting, gentlemen solicitr & Lamplight \o/ BR o7
     

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    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
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  28. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Hi Lamplight

    Just watched your video. Excellent. Thank you so much. The video combined with the guide provided by solicitr has really helped me to understand how to set up each cab and the reasons for doing so. One thing I did notice is that you set up the rear facing rear locomotive as the lead and the front facing rear locomotive as the trail like:

    (L-T-CONSIST-T-L) instead of (L-T-CONSIST-L-T). I guess it doesn’t strictly matter how that’s done.
     
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  29. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    above is correct - think about trail as a powered car :) (can act like unpowered too!)
     
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  30. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    page 10 - trail set as 'dead' (no power & no brakes) - Engine Run, Generator Field & Fuel Pump are ON ** in this case :) yeah hehe

    PS ** This is a common mistake leading to the unpowered train in TSW SPG
     

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    Last edited: Apr 4, 2021
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  31. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    There is pretty much no reason in-game ever to have a dead engine in tow. IRL, it's only for moving disabled engines to the shop, or possibly a transport move in an all-loco consist. I suppose for fun you could do it in a helper-return service... but why deny yourself the extra braking power?
     
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  32. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    After being extremely hesitant of Sand Patch Grade, I’m really starting to like it. I have done all the basic scenarios (I don’t yet own the C40-8W) apart from Powering America Part 2 (which I SPAD on by accident approaching the big tunnel) and although they took me forever (because my trains weren’t configured correctly), I really enjoyed them. The route is definitely daunting with the two hour runs, but you do feel rewarded after doing them.

    Interestingly, the Ice and Snow scenario was giving me 97AP for staying under the speed limit, not 30AP, so although a gold medal required around 7,000AP, I ended with over 20,000AP, which was a nice bonus.
     
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  33. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Another thing I’ve noticed is that I keep breaking the horns on SPG. For some reason, after a few toots, they no longer toot, but the bell still dings.
     
  34. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Well known and oft-complained of bug.

    Two workarounds:
    1) SAVE AND RESTORE
    2) use the 8 or 3 camera and fly away until you can no longer hear the lead engine at all. Then switch back to 1; this forces the lead engine sounds to re-set
     
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  35. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Almost happened to me too when I first played SPG. Thankfully, the emergency brakes were strong enough to bring me to a stop :D
     
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  36. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Thank you very much. It‘s good to know that my video was actually helpful :)
     
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  37. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I noticed in the solicitr guide and the Lamplight video a difference over distributed power in the AC4400CW. In the guide I’m told to switch distributed power on in locos 1 and 3, whereas in the video, I’m told only to turn it on in loco 1.
     
  38. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    This is probably not simulated in TSW. I always turn it on for each lead locomotive.
    Logic dictates that this should be ON in every lead DPU. Who knows. /o\
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
  39. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Something for you try to see if you get the same results. Only set up the loco you are driving and then turn on Banking Comms. That’s all I’ve ever had to do when spawning in the cab in timetable services. Turning on the Banking Comm configures the power settings in the other locos whatever they are set at before doing so. The brakes are all set up as trail by default in the other locos anyway. This will save you much hassle. I don’t even think you need the radio fuse or distributed power switches on anywhere, it’s all taken care of. It doesn’t configure the lights though.

    EDIT - I believe this may not work in scenarios from previous discussions on the subject.
     
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  40. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Yes, this is the fastest way, but some kind of out of role play cheat too (less fun!) :)
     
  41. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Just completed Powering America Part 2. I set up the locos as per the video (only setting distributed power in the cab I was in). I made it to the other side in one piece. However, I don’t think the dynamic brakes were working properly. I had them set and they were quite happily holding the train on a specific gradient and then, although nothing changed, the brakes were no longer able to hold the train and the speed crept up. I also noticed that when increasing or decreasing the dynamic braking, the kWh bar wasn’t changing and the dynamic brakes would either continue to apply or continue to release unexpectedly. Don’t know if this is normal behaviour or if something was wrong somewhere, but for most of the journey, I did manage to stay below the speed limit successfully.
     
    Last edited: Apr 5, 2021
  42. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    The dynamic brakes on the AC4400 don’t work properly anyway so it’s hard to tell if there’s an issue related to the banking with it. If the power worked okay then then the dynamic brake should work properly too, or at least they would if they weren’t buggy to start with.
     
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  43. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    There was a period recently, apparently on PS4 it worked well, on PC - it didn't work. I've already lost count... I mostly use the Dash 8 myself now and it seems okay. When going downhill towards Cumberland - in the case of a heavy train, dynamic braking is not enough. Balanced * (mixed) is the most desirable option out there. * dynamic & air
     
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  44. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the 4400s dynamic brakes are screwed up. Ran PA2 last night because of this thread, and found my DB kept creeping up to 99kp and slowing me to a crawl! I rarely drive it these days for that reason; I like the SD40 better anyway :)
     
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  45. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    My version was just based on experience. Banking works fine with the distributed power fuse on only in #1. I don‘t know if that‘s prototypical.

    Exactly my problem. I can never be completely sure if something works/doesn‘t work beacuse it‘s that way in real life or because it isn‘t simulated. I had a lot of problems with that when I was trying to figure out how resetting AFB at the end of LZB control works.
     
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  46. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    :) When Jo_Kim explained it, I felt relieved...

    TSW is such a compromise. Not everything is simulated, but it's still nice when the switches are interactive.
     
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  47. stevens9001

    stevens9001 Member

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    Hi there is a tutorial on YouTube that I watched before I completed the scenario it was very helpful.
     
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  48. Costpap

    Costpap Member

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    If you mean using Ctrl - to teleport between the DPUs, that doesn't work. However, Ctrl + does work for teleporting between a locomotive and the one coupled to its' long hood. The keybind for that is the same as PC, so you need to have a keyboard connected in order to do that.
     
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  49. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Works fine for most ** users. Partially it is about language settings, but not only. Maybe this is buged in some way.

    ** or maybe for part of the users
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2021
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  50. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Works fine for me, at least on PC with a QWERTY keyboard. Might not work on console keyboards or non-English ones; I don't know.
     
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