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Scenarios - Why No Sharing Capabilities?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by londonmidland, Jul 5, 2021.

  1. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    As the title says, since launch of the scenario designer (aka glorified quick drive) why have we still no sharing abilities? I understand this may be harder to implement on console, however surely it isn’t hard to add to PC?

    I understand why there are issues adding it to the livery designer, due to potential copyright issues and whatnot, however I see no reason why such functionality still hasn’t been added to the scenario designer.

    Personally, I don’t have the skill or patience to make a scenario myself, however I would love to experience some made by the talented people of this community.
     
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  2. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Other games have options to share custom made content on console. It isn't complicated on console. I have always wondered though why is the scenario planner as a whole so limited. You can't even change the weather which is quite odd. It's like someone at dtg said to make the scenario designer vague and limited as possible and the higher ups said "That's a great Job. Let's release it as is and I am sure players will be happy." Surely it doesn't take a two year old to realize how vague it is. I had a go with the scenario designer on lirr with the m3 when the update came out and with NTP with the Class 43 and I haven't touched it sense because of how limited it is. Can't do shunting, can't do return journeys, can't change the weather, trains don't exit to the portal when they reached the end of the route, ai trains can't do return journeys from where they started, not all platforms can be used in certain stations in routes like Penn Station in LIRR. The issues just go on.

    I also don't get why can't scenarios be shared. TSW2 has been out for almost a year and there have been no improvements to the scenario planner. Surely they could make the sharing system happen via dovetail live. The player logs into dovetail live in game and once online, the player would have an option to share content or download community content and play with it like in other games like Bus Simulator 18 or Need For Speed Heat or ATS. Also sharing scenarios should have no effect on licensing either so I wonder why dtg approved the scenario designer to be so limited to begin with. If sharing was an option, it would allow players who may not have time to make their own scenarios to just play others that were made by the community and will allow players to enjoy other players creations just like in ts2021. That would negate the need for "scenario packs" as well if more functionality was added and if sharing was implemented.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
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  3. Jamy

    Jamy Well-Known Member

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    becuase "Scenario planner" is a pile of crap when compared to train simulator
     
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  4. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Its one thing to have a barely functional scenario planner, but to not be able to share anything just takes the p*$$
     
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  5. Ps4Player

    Ps4Player Well-Known Member

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    Same applies for me, it's an nearly untouched feature. I only use it to grind distance for certain trains/trophies.

    Other games use Kind of Codes so you can access their scenarios. I don't know why this shouldn't be also possible for TSW.

    I also would like to play custom scenarios from other players on console. There's really no motivation for me to drive a scenario I made myself because nothing that happens is going to be a surprise for me.
     
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  6. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

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    I opened this thing once and closed it quickly after, never used again. I'm actually hoping for a 3rd party tool for the whole management and downloading, something as useful as the mod manager ...

    100% agreed with OP
     
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  7. lukereynolds1

    lukereynolds1 Well-Known Member

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    I've only used the scenario designer a couple of times and I really don't like it. I suppose sharing would be more beneficial once it allows people the opportunity to actually design something worth sharing. I think it is the most disappointing feature of tsw2. It would have to have many more options to make me want to use it.
     
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  8. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I honestly thought the developers would be actively working on to try and improve it but instead it feels like it’s been forgotten about, with us stuck with the beta version.
     
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  9. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    Sharing scenarios is something we want to add, but like everything else it's on the list of "wouldn't it be great if..."
     
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  10. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well surely more functionally could've been added to the scenario designer before tsw2 came out and while it was in development. Changing weather, adding more functionality as well along with sharing. It seems things like those weren't thought of whilst it was being worked on while tsw2 was in development making the scenario designer a pointless feature in my opinion. Although the off the rails mode is a nice touch.
     
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  11. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Glad to hear it's at least on your radar. IMO, there are a lot of talented scenario creators out there (i'm not one of them fwiw), even given the limited tools currently available. As a console player i'd greatly appreciate being able to play user-created scenarios and it would definitely increase my time spent playing- especially on freight routes.
     
  12. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    There’s little point in sharing anything yet. There’s very little you can do that works correctly.
     
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  13. Bexy916

    Bexy916 New Member

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    I had a go at this so called scenario editor thing, thinking stupidly, that I could create something like I do in TS21 (Been writing scenarios for nearly 8 years for that)....... Disappointed? Er just a wee bit. TSW has SO much potential, yet totally let down by stupid mistakes like this. FSW crashed and burned because of stupid mistakes like this..... I really had hoped lessons had been learnt..... BUT I guess not.
     
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  14. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Hey, don't call the scenario designer a glorified quick drive. Quick Drive was called because it was incredibly quick to get a drive. The current scenario designer is far from quick to set up, especially if you want some AI traffic on the route. I still miss good old Quick Drive mode, and the Scenario Designer is, IMO, considerably inferior to Quick Drive.

    Quick Drive is a glorified Scenario Designer. :P

    I made several scenarios for Train Simulator and quite enjoyed all the positive comments I received (and occasionally still receive). That brings me quite some satisfaction and motivated me to spend some time and effort in creating a fun scenario.

    To me, there's no point in making scenarios if I can't share them, as I'd be the only one who'd be able to enjoy them. Oh and I don't want the hassle of any third party sites with manual uploading/downloading. I want something at least as easy to use as the Steam Workshop.
     
  15. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    It could have been, certainly, but then we'd have had to drop something else.
     
  16. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I never really understood the need for a livery editor. Where can I vote on which things to drop? Previously we had received a few surveys in where we could prioritize certain features. Wouldn't mind filling in a new survey ;)
     
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  17. lukereynolds1

    lukereynolds1 Well-Known Member

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    I remember the hype during the preview streams to the run up of the scenario designer prior to the release of TSW2, and how the community were reminded on many occasions that it was only version one and that DTG wanted to see how the community used it to inform how it could be developed in the future. Then...it goes cold, very cold.
     
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  18. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    That's a bit unfair. Developing such tools is just not done over night. We got so many other core features since release. And get even more new features with Rush Hour. They can't develop everything at once. Scenario editor und livery designer will get a version two at some point. But until then, we're stuck with what we have. That's the thing. Patience. Having new additions to scenario designer wasn't priority yet. While this may disappoint some people (for a good reason - i too agree 100% with OP), this will just take more time.
     
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  19. lukereynolds1

    lukereynolds1 Well-Known Member

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    I fully understand what you are saying. Of course things take time to develop. But it's not unfair for me to state what I have observed. Development has gone cold and hasn't been actively worked on, otherwise it would have been mentioned on the roadmap. I am not saying either that there have not been further developments in other areas. I just sometimes get the impression that DTG spread themselves too thin.
     
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  20. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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    But scenarios can be shared on PC very easily. It isnt officially implemented, but neither is modding support and still there are awesome game changing mods.
    In many forums, the TSW Filebase is growing fast and even If you dont have the pacience to create a full scenario, you can download some really great ones. (Not only from me :p )
    So i can understand the frustration of the console players, but PC Players have a working (unofficial) sharing system for scenarios, mods, repaints and so on, a bit more complicated than Steam Workshop, but still very easy.

    I think before they add an official sharing system, they should work on the current scenariodesigner to make it better and able to create more advanced scenarios like in TS1
     
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  21. Tom Fresco

    Tom Fresco Well-Known Member

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  22. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I agree, before we officially get sharing, the thing needs to have major changes, starting with the ability to change the weather, and make our own paths - these two changes would make the world of difference for me and I'd even forgive it for lot allowing custom consists.

    As it stands, you can't do anything meaningful with it apart from
    - drive to marker
    - Congrats, you win!

    And even doing that is an exercise in frustration. I was only able to make one descent scenario, an ICE on RRO. I then wanted to make a series of scenarios on NTP but scrapped the entire idea after fighting with it for about 30 minutes. The fact it was originally going to ship without preserved collection, and without "off the rails" is something of nightmare fuel, from someone who's put thousands of hours in the TS1 editor (which itself is quite buggy and unstable).
     
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  23. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    So bascially, there wasn't enough time to add features. Not even the ability to change the weather? How hard would it have been to just allow players to customize the weather like in timetable mode. Why do I get the feeling that the company was spread to thin on scenario designer. Would customizable weather in scenario designer mean something had to be dropped?

    At least improvements are on the list.
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
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  24. Bigphil1592

    Bigphil1592 New Member

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    I personally really enjoy the Scenario Designer and I'm glad it exists. I've never had the pleasure of Playing Train Sim Classic so I can't compare it to that. As someone that lacks a lot of time to play some of the timetable services, it's great to be able to do an end to end service really quickly.
    I also felt it added a lot more value to the existing stock, I wanted the Class 52 for a while but was reluctant to purchase it for the West Somerset Railway as it wasn't a route I particularly enjoyed. As soon as WSR was in the Preserved Collection I bought the 52 and the 33 a bit later as I now had the ability to run them on any route- the same thing with the DB BR 101. Had it just been tied to HRR then I probably wouldn't have bought it.
    I do however agree that the Scenario Designer really needs more love. The fact you can't even set the weather is a bit odd.
     
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  25. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    I don't mind the weather issue because with a little trick you can change it. It's not the ideal solution, but actually not a problem.
     
  26. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    Yes. There's no such thing as simple - let's take adding weather as an example.

    First, you need to ensure than any weather system you add is readable by the playable scenario. Should be simple enough, after all the routes already support weather. Let's call this "the easy bit". It'll use a programmer for maybe half a day assuming it all goes smoothly and doesn't wreck anything else.

    Next, let's add it to the UI for setting up a route, remembering to account for scaling and any weird resolutions that might be used. After getting the redesign approved we're looking at probably 1-2 days of UI engineering time, assuming it all goes smoothly and doesn't wreck anything else.

    Right, let's get a test plan developed for it. Check every platform, every route with a mixture of weather settings. Try some min/max service set-ups, different traction types. That's a lead QA tester for half a day.

    Now, let's test it. We'll be stingy and just use one tester per platform to cover the each test. Based on the plan above, that's 3 days for each tester.

    For the sake of argument let's assume nothing broke. It has been known to happen.

    Let's add it to the release candidate build and add a rudimentary extra check to the test plan for anything else added later, just in case it starts acting wonky after something else is added.

    All the time we just used up to add one "simple" feature just took time away from other projects. The rationale here is that if you're going to address a feature, get a full update list together and hit it all at once. This means addressing the UI once, testing once (albeit for longer) and one extra suite of tests. Rather than splitting it up into small chunks, batching full projects together adds a significant amount of efficiency to the situation - not least of all when it comes to having the team task-focused. Rather than having to refamiliarise themselves with the scenario planner code for a half day job, they can immerse themselves in the tool for a week (or however long is set aside for it).

    We have plans for scenario planner (and livery designer) but it only makes sense to address them as a full project, not in bits and pieces.
     
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  27. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    You can share scenarios. Each one is just a separate file. You can use ToolkitForTSW to get the somewhat cryptic file, add a simple readme and pack it into a zip for distribution.

    ToolkitForTSW is donationware (but not cripple ware, you always get full functionality) and you can get it here:
    https://www.hollandhiking.nl/trainsimulator
     
  28. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Nothing on the roadmap for scenarioplanner, very dissappointing after all years of promises we just got this crap. Sorry I am getting a bit cynical on this topic.
     
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  29. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Not talking about these fancy features. With the current scenarioplanner passenger stops are implemented at services level, not at the individual stopping level. The only instruction type supported is a stop, nothing else and it is not easy to implement this without breaking all existing scenarios. I can go on a bit and I can know. I spent a lot of time to discover the file structure and I can assure you it is poorly designed. It look they did not even have a look at Trainsimulator which has a tool that at least is working and provides reasonable functionality.
     
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  30. Jamy

    Jamy Well-Known Member

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    Ok Ok your saying it takes a lot more work to add any feature, but on the flip side of that it means DTG looked at it and thought hmmm it doesn't do anything our customers want it to do but lets just release something thats nowhere near the finished article we want and park it.
     
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  31. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That seems to have been the case. To be honest the Scenario Planner seems to be in beta stage
     
  32. frank1116

    frank1116 Well-Known Member

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    To use locos on any route is the one single advantage. I have bought the BR204 and 363 because i thought, i can use some of the side yards and countless railroad switches. What a stupid idea. I am still wondering why it is not possible to include e.g. the RSN Elverslingen Power station into a scenario. I have read all the real world blabla, but there is a rail, nice modelling of the area, there is a switch... Just to have a walk and find a collectable ? That´s all ?
    However it is at least something, but not a show stopper. I am more concerned about bad interior sound and lighting.
     
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  33. Ferrovipathe67

    Ferrovipathe67 Well-Known Member

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    Hello everyone today i propose more fonctionnality for the scenario planner
    1st thing I propose the delete of fixed services on the scenario planner and I propose something where we can choose the track from which we want to leave the depot or marshalling yard
    2nd thing I propose the addition of the constit editor in the scenario planner in game
    3rd thing I propose that we can choose the weather
    4th thing I propose the sharing of scenario between players
    5th thing add the round trips for scenario planner
    here are my suggestions for the scenario planner
     
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