Scotland: Let's See Some More.

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by trainsimplayer, Oct 28, 2021.

?
  1. West Highland Line

    27.6%
  2. The Kyle Line

    15.0%
  3. Far North Line

    13.4%
  4. Highland Mainline

    18.1%
  5. (part of the) Inverness/Aberdeen - Glasgow/Aberdeen line

    16.5%
  6. ECML North

    32.3%
  7. WCML North (+ Carstairs - Edinburgh)

    27.6%
  8. Argyle Line

    10.2%
  9. North Clyde Line

    14.2%
  10. Borders Railway

    7.9%
  11. Fife Circle Line

    33.9%
  12. Edinburgh - Glasgow (via Falkirk)

    43.3%
  13. Ayrshire Coast Line

    23.6%
  14. Inverclyde Line

    15.0%
  15. Other (Comment)

    3.9%
  16. All of the above!

    15.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,770
    Likes Received:
    5,144
    Scotland: Let's See Some More
    sr in tsw.png

    Hello all, today, I'm bringing something different. We've probably all seen the "master threads" for Japan, Germany/Surrounding Nations and a few others.

    **See https://forums.dovetailgames.com/posts/421070/ for the list of suggestions**

    However, Scotland is - in terms of it's rail network and scenery - very diverse. And I'm going to tell you why Scotland is somewhere we need to see more of.

    Before I begin, however, I'd like to say I'm not treating Scotland as seperate from the UK. However, it is a country within the UK, with a distinct culture, landscape and rail network, and I think we should see more of it. So please, nobody kill me :)

    Routes

    Scotland has a diverse collection of routes of numerous different types, with Urban Commuter lines such as the Cathcart and Argyle Lines, Regional Lines such as the Inverclyde and Fife Circle Line, Mainlines from England and Aberdeen into Edinburgh and Glasgow, and the wonderful West Highland Line.

    Here's my quick breakdown of all the routes in real life, and then the best options for in-game, no particular order. [Cathcart is, obviously, being ignored. Just remember it has a 314]

    • West Highland Line (Glasgow - Mallaig)
    • Kyle Line: Kyle of Lochalsh - Inverness
    • Far North Line: Inverness - Wick/Thurso
    • Inverness/Aberdeen - Edinburgh/Glasgow
    • Highland Mainline: Perth - Inverness
    • Fife Circle Line: Edinburgh - Edinburgh
    • North Berwick Line: Edinburgh - North Berwick (goes with ECML)
    • ECML: Edinburgh - Border (Berwick-upon-Tweed near enough)
    • Borders Railway: Edinburgh - Tweedbank
    • Edinburgh - Glasgow
      • Via Falkirk High (the TS one)
      • Via Shotts
      • Via Airdrie (North Clyde)
      • Via Carstairs
      • Via Cumbernauld
    • North Clyde Line: Edinburgh - Helensburgh
    • Argyle Line: [Glasgow Destinations] - [Lanarkshire Destinations]
    • WCML: Glasgow - Border (Carlisle for the purposes)
    • Glasgow Southwestern Line: Glasgow - East Kilbride/Stranraer/Carlisle
    • Ayrshire Coast Line: Glasgow - Ayr, Ardrossan and Largs
    • Inverclyde Line: Glasgow - Gourock and Wemyss Bay
    • Paisley Canal Line: Glasgow - Paisley Canal
    And a couple others.

    Now, it's easy to split these up. You have; East Coast Lines (Red), Suburban Glasgow* Network (Blue), Mainlines (Magenta), Highlands (Green), Other (Black)

    This quite successfully highlights the diversity of the Scottish Network, however, I haven't really made the case for it yet. Have I?

    How about I do that now, then.

    Highlands
    The Highlands, one of the World's most beautiful landscapes and the heartland of Scotland. And the Lines of the Highlands display this with no less than with absolute beauty.

    The lines of the Highlands are:

    The West Highland Line
    Glasgow - Oban, Fort William & Mallaig

    The West Highland Line is one of the world's most beautiful railways, Stretching from the City of Glasgow all the way up to Fort William and the Port of Mallaig, the West Highland Line moves it's way through the Mountain ranges of the Highlands, and overlooks the many lochs in the way. This route is arguably the best Scotland has to offer. And we have a lot to offer.

    For TSW:
    [For Glasgow - Helensburgh see North Clyde Line]
    - WHL South: Helensburgh Upper - Crianlarch
    - WHL North: Crianlarch - Fort William
    - WHL 'Extension': Fort William - Mallaig
    - Oban Line: Oban - Crianlarch

    Due to the sparse timetable on this line, the rolling stock could be:

    The Class 156 (ScotRail Saltire)

    With a potential BR-Era timetable to make up for the sparse timetable, featuring:

    The Class 156 (BR)
    The Class 37 (BR ScotRail)

    And - for both eras - a potential Jacobite DLC for Fort William - Mallaig.

    For Suggestions:

    I've personally Suggested the Northern Section (known in TS as West Highland Line extension) between Fort William and Mallaig, and plan to expand on the West Highland Line in the future.

    Fort William - Mallaig: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...william-mallaig-does-it-get-any-better.43171/

    The Kyle Line
    Kyle of Lochalsh - Inverness

    Running out of the Highland Capital, Inverness, the Kyle Line is another wonderful route. From the Ports in the West to the Historical City in Inverness, this line sees some Stunning scenery running out through the north of the Highlands.

    However, it may be too long for TSW, again, so could have to be split up.
    (Class 158)

    Far North Line
    Wick/Thurso - Inverness

    The far north line is - to nobody's surprise - the furthest north line in the UK. Along with the Kyle Line, both leave out of Inverness station, heading north through Sutherland and ending up in northern reaches of Scotland.
    For TSW: this would likely need to be split up as well, and this route is operated by the Class 158.

    JealousSheep768 has a nice suggestion on this route: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/the-far-north-line-inverness-to-invershin.47676/

    Highland Mainline
    Perth - Inverness

    Running between Perth, one of Scotland's smaller cities, and Inverness to the north.
    Running through the centre of the Highlands, this line sees the Class 170, 158, 43 (Inter7City) and Class 800 Azuma (LNER) run along this line.

    As with all the routes above so far, this would end up having to be split up, die to length.

    East Coast Lines
    The East Coast of Scotland's network - centred around Edinburgh Waverley, are a network of (mostly) diesel lines, serving the Fife and Borders regions, all the way up towards Aberdeen and Inverness in the Highlands.

    Borders Railway
    Edinburgh - Tweedbank

    The Borders Railway is Scotland's newest line, linking Edinburgh with the Borders Towns of Galashiels and Tweedbank, with closer links to the main Borders towns in Kelso and Hawick.

    Despite calls to reinstate the Waverley Line (the original line which the new route runs along the site of) to Carlisle, the Borders Railway - opened in 2015 - is operated by Class 158s and 170s, runs for 35 miles.

    Classes 170 & 158

    Fife Circle Line
    Edinburgh - Edinburgh

    The Fife Circle Line - well known within the community from it's appearance in Train Simulator - being a core route in TS2021, is one of Scotland's two - along with the Cathcart Circle Lines, Circular lines.

    Seeing service from Class 158 and 170 units - with LNER stock and Inter7City HSTs running on the Edinburgh - Dundee line, which this line shares track with - and is 49 miles long, from Edinburgh back to, well, Edinburgh.

    (Class 158 & 170)

    Inverness/Aberdeen - Edinburgh/Glasgow

    The Line from Edinburgh Waverley and Glasgow Queen Street to Inverness and Aberdeen is around 240 miles long, and would have to be split up for TSW, here's what I think:

    - Glasgow Queen Street - Dundee via Perth (83mi)
    - Edinburgh - Dundee (overlaps with Fife Circle) (51mi)
    - Dundee - Aberdeen (71mi)
    - Aberdeen - Inverness (108mi)

    With the 158, 170, HST (ScotRail) and LNER Azuma being the best options for locos.

    Mainlines

    ECML + North Berwick Line
    Edinburgh - English Destinations

    The ECML runs from London Kings Cross - Edinburgh Waverley, calling at numerous stations such as Peterborough, York and Newcastle.

    Operated primarily by LNER and - in Scotland - ScotRail for local services to North Berwick and Dunbar.

    For TSW (and even TS!) This route is far too long to be one whole route, so for the section out of Edinburgh, Edinburgh - Berwick-upon-Tweed and North Berwick (near 60 miles) would be an excellent route, with the LNER Azumas, and a Class 380 or 385 - more on that soon.

    WCML and Edinburgh - Glasgow via Carstairs
    Glasgow Central - Edinburgh OR English Destinations

    The West Coast Mainline, despite being one of the (along side the ECML) busiest lines in the UK, is very similar to a rural line in Scotland, with limited services running up and down, with no ScotRail services for most of it.

    Glasgow - Carlisle is 102 miles in length, so way too long, however this could be shortened for TSW, and feature the line to Edinburgh, diverging at Carstairs.

    In the contrary, this route could be a lot shorter to make if the Argyle Line came before, with significant overlap between the two. The Argyle line will come up again, soon.

    Edinburgh - Glasgow
    via Falkirk High

    Best known as Train Simulator's Edinburgh - Glasgow add-on, this line has seen substantial developments in the last few years, with Electrification and Glasgow Queen Street's redevelopment taking place, and the introduction of Class 385 units.

    This route in game would include the full length route, and have a Class 385.
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/edinburgh-glasgow.40845/

    Suburban Network (Glasgow)
    [Cathcart is excluded]

    Argyle Line
    Various Destinations

    The Argyle Line is - despite being a network of lines in and around Glasgow - an excellent network full of variety everywhere you turn.

    In the West, Services travel to/from Dalmuir via Singer or Yoker - and the Milngavie branch splits off from the Singer Line closer to Glasgow. This section - West of Partick - is shared with the North Clyde Line.

    The route then passes through Glasgow Central Low Level - and some High Level services head towards the Eastern Destinations.

    Those Eastern Destinations include Airbles, Cumbernauld and Whifflet (the latter three all on one branch), Larkhall, Lanark and Carstairs. Some services terminate at Motherwell as well.

    This route has two connections to Cathcart Circle - Newton and Glasgow Central.

    North Clyde Line
    Various Destinations

    The North Clyde Line is rather similar to the Argyle Line- sharing plenty of track in the West, between Dunbar and Partick, where the Argyle goes south of the Clyde (eventually) and the North Clyde Line stays north of the Clyde.

    However, this is a much simpler route, with the Western Termini being Helensburgh Central, Balloch (Branch) and Milngavie (Branch), with the Eastern being Springburn (Branch), and Edinburgh/Airdrie/Bathgate.

    For TSW- the entire route all the way to Edinburgh is a bit too long, with too many stations as well, however, this could make for a good urban route one day, in and around Glasgow.

    This route would have Class 334 and Class 156 (for West Highland Line services), and would include the line into Queen Street High Level, as well as Helensburgh Upper for Highland Line services.

    Glasgow Southwestern Line
    Glasgow - East Kilbride, Carlisle and Stranraer via Barrhead

    The Glasgow Southwestern Line is the main route out of Glasgow for Dumfries and Galloway. Mirroring the Cathcart Circle fairly close, with the two not getting too far apart until after Cathcart, this route has services to East Kilbride, Stranraer (turning back at Kilmarnock), and Carlisle.

    For TSW, Glasgow - Kilmarnock with the East Kilbride branch is probably the best idea. With the Class 156 being the included loco.

    Paisley Canal Line
    Glasgow - Paisley Canal

    It exists. I'm sorry, that's it.

    Ayrshire Coast Line
    Glasgow - Ayr, Ardrossan and Largs

    The Ayrshire Coast Line - somewhat well known for the scenes of waves splashing over the lines around Saltcoats, onto the wires and trains passing by. With the Mainline to Ayr, and the Branch to Ardrossan Harbour, with the branch to Largs branching off from the branch to Ardrossan, which branches off at Kilwinning.

    The fact I managed to say "Branch" (or variations of the word) Five times in the same sentence - and it still makes sense - says a lot about this line.

    This route, like the Inverclyde Line below, would have the Class 380 as it's standard loco - being the only stock at present.

    Inverclyde Line
    Glasgow - Gourock and Wemyss Bay

    Ahh, finally I've got through this part. This was not a fun section to write.

    However, this is my home route, so I can finally just get this out here. I personally think this route is one of the best looking routes in Scotland.

    Located on the Southside of the River Clyde, running between Gourock and Wemyss Bay on the Firth of Clyde (well, actually the former is on the 'Tail of the Bank' but anyway), and Glasgow Central, this route offers - without a doubt - excellent visuals across the Clyde to the Highlands, and the mountains of Argyle.

    You can see some of this in the suggestion of mine linked below, however this route truly is excellent.

    This route would - like the Ayrshire Coast Line - have the Class 380, with the 314 or (or even and, there could be two timetables, one with the 385, one with the 314, for that little bit of variety) Class 385 layering/Substituting on. This could also see 320 and 318 substitutions/layers, as well.
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/inverclyde-line-glasgow-gourock-wemyss-bay.45020/

    ScotRail's Fleet
    ScotRail has one of the most diverse fleets on the UK's Network, with newer Electric Multiple Units, to MK1-derived EMUs, and the Sprinters.

    This diversity goes truly hand in hand with the routes, and I feel this is worth it's own section.

    (All trains must have been in service at some point after 2010 for me the count them here)

    Note: "TSW Home Route" is my suggestion, and please, remember that these would only be the base route, that also counts for Loco DLCs, and that there will be layers (see section below)

    Locomotives
    Class 43 + MK3 Stock 'Inter7City'
    [​IMG]

    Adapted from GWR's outgoing HSTs (Which we do have already, in GWE), the Class 43 forms ScotRail's new 'Inter7City' services, connecting the 7 Cities (Glasgow, Edinburgh, Stirling, Perth, Dundee, Aberdeen & Inverness) of Scotland, and proving fast and reliable (usually) services through the Scottish Network.

    TSW Home Routes: Probably Inverness/Aberdeen - Edinburgh/Glasgow.

    DMUs (The 153 is here because it's easier)
    Class 153 'Highland Explorer'
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    One of the most Recent Editions to the ScotRail fleet, the BR Class 153 - Sprinter - was introduced to run along with Class 156 units on the West Highland Line, to expand spaces for Bicycles, and encourage tourism up into the Highlands.
    These always operate alongside Class 156 Units when operating.

    TSW: Home Route: West Highland Line/North Clyde Line

    Class 156
    [​IMG]

    The Class 156 'Super Sprinter' is and integral part of the Diesel part of the ScotRail fleet. Operating the West Highland and Glasgow Southwestern Lines exclusively (in full, that is), these are the backbone of connections in the Dumfries & Galloway and the Argyll/Highland Regions.

    TSW: Home Routes: Glasgow Southwestern Line, West Highland Line/North Clyde Line

    Class 158
    [​IMG]

    Serving as the backbone of many routes, from the Far North Line to the Borders Railway, the Class 158 'Express Sprinter' is a key part of the Scotrail Fleet, with many routes served by it.

    TSW Home Routes: Kyle Line, Far North Line, Fife Circle Line, Edinburgh/Glasgow - Aberdeen/Inverness, Highland Mainline and/or Borders Railway.

    Class 170
    [​IMG]

    The Class 170 'Turbostar' is - similar to the 158 - running along numerous lines and also being very common to swap in and out for other units.
    This is also one of the UK's most common DMUs, running up and down the country.

    TSW Home Routes: Fife Circle Line, Edinburgh/Glasgow - Aberdeen/Inverness, Highland Mainline and/or Borders Railway.

    EMUs
    Class 318
    [​IMG]

    The BR Class 318 is a MK3-based EMU, uniquely serving Scotland. With it's English Cousin - The Class 317 - serving in Anglia and the South, the 318 serves Glasgow's Suburban Network, stretching out to Gourock and Wemyss Bay on the Inverclyde Line.

    TSW Home Route: Argyle Line

    Class 320
    [​IMG]

    The BR Class 320 is another BR-era Unit, and also uniquely serves ScotRail. Similar to the 318, it's Cousin, the Class 321, serves in Anglia and Southern England. The Class 322 also operates with Northern (I think), formerly having served with First ScotRail. This operates mostly the same routes as the 318. The 320/4 units are no different to /3, except they are former London Midland Class 321s.

    TSW Potential Home Route: Argyle Line

    Class 334
    334038_sits_at_Edinburgh_Waverley,_05_April_2013.jpeg

    The Class 334 'Juniper' is the primary unit on the North Clyde Line, formerly being found in Ayrshire and Inverclyde. In recent years these units have been removed from those lines - in favour of units such as the Class 380 - and onto the North Clyde Line.

    TSW Home Route: North Clyde Line

    Class 380
    [​IMG]

    The Class 380 'Desiro' is the primary unit on the Ayrshire Coast and Inverclyde Lines, and can be found as far west as North Berwick, running services there. Originally built for the cancelled Glasgow Airport Rail Link (GARL), these units were put to good use, now being the exclusive (in usual times) loco on the Ayrshire Coast Line, and the main one in Inverclyde.
    This also has a (as far as I'm aware) unique feature for the UK Network - an angled Gangway on the front.

    TSW Home Routes: Inverclyde Line, Ayrshire Coast Line.

    Class 385
    [​IMG]

    The Class 385 is the newest Multiple Unit on ScotRail's hands, having been introduced to serve the recently-electrified Edinburgh - Glasgow (via Falkirk) line. These units have also come to serve the Inverclyde Line and other lines around Glasgow.

    TSW Home Route: Edinburgh - Glasgow via Falkirk

    Former
    Class 314 (Withdrawn from Service)
    [​IMG]

    Two Class 314s pass at Croftfoot, in Saltire livery. (TSW2)

    Featured in TSW2's Glasgow Cathcart Circle, the Class 314 'PEP' was the oldest unit left in the fleet, having entered service in 1979, it actually lost this title prior to it's withdrawal from service, with the HST taking that spot.

    This unit was featured in Cathcart Circle (set in 2017 or 2014, when it was the main loco on the line), and features all 16 units- however all in Saltire Livery, despite some being in the SPT Carmine & Cream - the last trains to do so - which is a livery probably everyone has recreated in the livery designer.
    [​IMG]
    Two Class 314s, one in ScotRail Saltire and one in Carmine & Cream livery, stand at Glasgow Central.


    Class 365 (Temporary Service with ScotRail)
    45012662031_f30eb80b4e_b.jpg

    Due to issues with the Class 385 - thanks to the curved windows in the cab - which caused a delay of entry into service, the Class 365 were brought up from Great Northern to cover the Edinburgh - Glasgow line, as numerous DMUs - including the 170s that ran the line - were being transferred to Arriva Rail North (Northern). The 10× Class 365s had a short stay in Scotland, however the Happy Trains (Fun Fact: ScotRail actually called them Happy Trains) had a final chance to see some new tracks.

    Class 68 + MK2 Coaches (Leased, removed due to Mk2s)
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    The Class 68 didn't stay too long, either.
    Having a 5 year stay - from 2015 to 2020, these units came to Scotland to operate Peak-time Fife Circle services, and met their fate when the Mark 2 Coaches were to be withdrawn from service, due to non-compliance with accessibility laws.

    Substitution/Layering

    This is my response to any calls for a Cathcart Loco DLC: but in more detail.

    I've always said that- provided even just a couple of routes be made more (for now :D) a layering/substitution system could be put in place - not only to get the most out of the locos with routes, but also to make every route as alive as possible.

    This image attached below is a (rough) outline of what I think that could be. tsw Scotland layering.png
    (A few notes: The WHL (West Highland Line) ends at Helensburgh Upper here, and becomes part of the North Clyde Line. The Sleeper is the Caledonian Sleeper. Most AI Trains are at Edinburgh Waverley or Glasgow Central)

    Now, specifically for Cathcart, the route could have all appropriate stock - if only two routes were made - Argyle (320, 318) and Inverclyde/Ayrshire (380). Ignoring AI (at Glasgow), that would fill the route, and - even though the 314 would still be what you see most - Glasgow Central would feel alive, the Cathcart Circle would be vibrant - the 6 Car Services for the 314!

    All without constraining a loco to Cathcart which is - to be totally honest - not the most exciting route we have to offer up here.

    Conclusion
    Scotland is (in my opinion) one of the most beautiful places in the world, and I'm lucky enough to come from it. And TSW has every chance to replicate it through the eyes of the railways.

    I'll be (when this thread is fully completed) making suggestions for all the routes I've noted above, to allow me to go into further depth about all the routes. However, that's all.

    And, as always;
    Thanks for reading.
     
    Last edited: Jan 1, 2022
    • Like Like x 21
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  2. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    5,513
    Likes Received:
    3,174
    Definitely, All of them, if they can be sold as a bundle, called scotrail route pack. Speaking of the Fife Circle Line it has the Forth Railway Bridge
     
    • Like Like x 4
  3. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2020
    Messages:
    472
    Likes Received:
    521
    You got me at "Scotland" ;) I'll have a proper look in the morning, until then amazing suggestion's :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Krazy

    Krazy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2020
    Messages:
    371
    Likes Received:
    878
    I’ll take any somewhat interesting ScotRail route. I really like their trains. They’re blue… and that’s pretty cool! Since I don’t know much about the routes themselves, I’ll base my choices on which ScotRail trains I’d love to see.

    The Class 68 would be lovely, so that’s a vote for the Fife Circle Line. That would also give the Class 170, a double win! Then there is the train I’d like to see the most, the Class 380. So I guess I’ll give votes for the Inverclyde Line and the Ayrshire Coast Line. The routes sound nice, and I’m convinced with the Ayrshire Coast Line by how much you’ve said “branch”. I’ll happily take some branch action with the incredible 380! :D
     
    • Like Like x 3
  5. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,955
    Likes Received:
    3,264
    Not being familiar with most of the routes, I voted for the West Highland Line. It certainly was an unique route in my Train Simulator connection, especially the section through Rannoch Moor. So different than any of the other UK routes I had seen so far.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  6. First capital connect

    First capital connect Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2018
    Messages:
    281
    Likes Received:
    349
    I would love anything with scotrail or TPE
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    My most wanted routes (in no particular order):

    Edinburgh Waverley to Glasgow Queen Street via Falkirk High and Falkirk Grahamston (including Grangemouth for freight).
    -Scotrail Class 385 in both 3 and 4 car variants, and Freightliner Class 66 with FTA/FSA container wagons.
    -Fast commuter route between two cities with a large multipurpose freight terminal.
    -Numerous landmarks such as the Falkirk Wheel, and multiple lines to explore.

    Edinburgh Waverley to Dundee via Kirkcaldy (including spur to Glenrothes for Fife Circle services to start/end).
    -Scotrail Class 170 and Scotrail HST (reused and modified from Great Western Express).
    -Intercity route with a mix of express and stopping services.
    -Very scenic with lots of points of interest including Forth and Tay bridges.

    Glasgow Central to Gourock/Wemyss Bay (Inverclyde line) (possibly including Paisley Canal branch).
    -Scotrail Class 380 in both 3 and 4 car variants. Class 314 could layer on too.
    -Coastal route that provides a new area to explore that hasn't previously featured in a train simulator.
    -Multiple branches and frequent services, ideally complements Cathcart Circle.

    Fort William to Mallaig (West Highland Line Extension).
    -Scotrail Class 156. DB/GBRf Class 66 could feature for freight around Fort William. Jacobite Railtour (for integration of steam).
    -If Rivet make it then a Regional Railways Class 156 and Large Logo Class 37/4 would be a good alternative.
    -Very scenic and iconic route, known for having the Glenfinnan Viaduct. Generally the best 'complete' highland route length-wise.

    These routes I think would best suited in TSW, and critically all fall below 50 miles and have less than 30 stations each.
    They each provide new types of rolling stock, and include reuse potential for existing assets.
    The scenery in each is different, and services and gameplay would all feel distinct.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  8. twiggy#9635

    twiggy#9635 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2021
    Messages:
    139
    Likes Received:
    238
    Whilst not knowing much about about Scottish Routes, I voted for the West Higland and Fife Circle lines due to the fact of how you said that Sprinters would run on those lines and that is my favourite DMU family. All around a very in-depth suggestion :)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. Coastway trainspotter

    Coastway trainspotter Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,852
    Likes Received:
    2,173
    I’d like to see the Glasgow subway
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2021
    Messages:
    375
    Likes Received:
    496
    Would love a glasgow-edinburgh or a route that takes you past Ben Nevis/Fort William (sorry, I can't think what the line is called)
    Beautiful country up north
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2020
    Messages:
    472
    Likes Received:
    521
    That's the West Highland Line. If I want to find out the name of a line I find the local station on Google maps and then find that area on Open Railway Map (or I just search the local station if I already know it). It's a really useful website and if you zoom in on a line it will give you the name of said line and can also give you most speed limits and electrification etc. although some places don't have that information :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2020
    Messages:
    472
    Likes Received:
    521
    Just to add the Class 158 &170's quite often run together as a 5 car train, I see these frequently on The Highland Mainline and Aberdeen - Inverness Mainline

    My 3 favourite trains, I would love to see all of these at some point :)
     
    • Like Like x 3
  13. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,770
    Likes Received:
    5,144
    Firstly, thank you to everyone who's replied and/or voted in the poll.

    I've been working a good bit in the background to get the 'Layering/Substitution' section to be as good as it can be. And that's now in the original post.

    Now onto the Agenda:

    I'm treating this as a bit of "Suggestions Project" of mine. In which I will sit down, do plenty of research and talk about every route here in good detail, and suggest them all.

    I am preparing for a lot of frustration in that, but I'm willing to do it.

    However, that won't begin for a couple of weeks yet, currently I'm busy with real stuff, and I'm also just wanting to take a little break from the whole suggestions business.

    The following won't get a dedicated suggestion, at least not any time soon.

    Inverclyde Line (Already Done)
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/inverclyde-line-glasgow-gourock-wemyss-bay.45020/

    Edinburgh - Glasgow via Falkirk High (Already Done) https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/edinburgh-glasgow.40845/
    The Bo'ness & Kinneil Railway is also in that one.

    And the following may be integrated into a new suggestion, eventually:

    West Highland Line: Fort William - Mallaig:
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...william-mallaig-does-it-get-any-better.43171/
     
    • Like Like x 4
  14. KatiaBLR

    KatiaBLR Active Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2021
    Messages:
    71
    Likes Received:
    103
    i personally would love edinburgh - fife circle or edinburgh - dundee (or some combination of the two)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. bdlhouston#8691

    bdlhouston#8691 Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2021
    Messages:
    120
    Likes Received:
    171
    If we got the Ayrshire coastline, i could imagine we get a scenario for the 314 farewell railtour, from glasgow central tp ayr and back
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,770
    Likes Received:
    5,144
    (4/12/21) Update

    Hello everyone, firstly, great thanks, again, to everyone who's commented and voted in the poll. Despite this thread dying it's good to see strong numbers in the poll.

    Now, why am I here. Posting in a month-dead thread. Well, that's simple.
    I've got an update for you.

    1 - Two new suggestions have been posted! Yep, the Ayrshire Coast Line and North Clyde Line (note, the latter will be upgraded slightly tonight, maybe into tommorow as I finish it off)

    Anyone who has been "following" this little, eh, I've not really got a name...

    'Series', of suggestions will probably notice they've been going up at weekends. This is no coincidence. I don't have much time during the week to write these, so I use that to prepare information for my reference.

    For example, my North Clyde Line suggestion, which went up today, is 2,700+ words long, and took the entire day (on and off, of course) to write. Probably 2hrs worth of typing. Yeah, I'm not kidding.

    So, next weekend, expect another one. And the weekend after that. Then I'm free until the new year. However, I'll take it easier around Christmas, and then dig into it.

    In the meantime, I aim to have another out tommorow, however a trip to the hospital may put that off, that could be a mid week job.

    However, I'd like to again, thank everyone who has involved themselves in both this thread and the individual suggestions, as I continue my mission of getting every route in Scotland suggested! :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,770
    Likes Received:
    5,144
    SR in TSW - Suggestions List.png

    This post will collect all of the suggestions from this series, as a central location and reference point, completed with links and such.

    Scotland Suggestions Series: Status
    (First update: 23:55, 4th December, 2021)
    (Most recent update: 18:56, 18th December, 2021)

    Completed:

    - Edinburgh - Glasgow (27/5/21, updated 23/10/21)
    Edinburgh Waverley - Glasgow Queen St.
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/edinburgh-glasgow.40845/


    - Bonus: Glasgow Subway (10/7/21)
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/glasgow-subway.42312/

    - West Highland Line: North (7/8/21)

    Fort William - Mallaig
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...william-mallaig-does-it-get-any-better.43171/


    - Inverclyde Line (5/9/21)
    Glasgow Central - Gourock and Wemyss Bay
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/inverclyde-line-glasgow-gourock-wemyss-bay.45020/


    --- October 28th: This Thread is posted, and the "mission" to get Scotland suggested begins. ---

    - Ayrshire Coast Line (21/11/21)
    Glasgow Central - Ayr, Ardrossan and Largs
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/the-ayrshire-coast-line.48996/


    - North Clyde Line (4/12/21)
    Helensburgh - Airdrie + branches
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/north-clyde-line-helensburgh-airdrie-wip.49554/


    - ECML North (10/12/21)
    Edinburgh Waverley - North Berwick & Berwick-Upon-Tweed
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/ecml-north-edinburgh-berwick-upon-tweed.49717/

    - Borders Railway (18/12/21)
    Edinburgh Waverley - Tweedbank
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/borders-railway.49955/

    - Bonus: Strathclyde Legends Pack (22/12/21)
    Cathcart in the 1980s.
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...s-pack-cathcart-in-the-80s.50067/#post-427587

    - West Highland Line: South & Oban Branch (30/12/21)
    Helensburgh Upper - Crianlarich / Crianlarich - Oban / Crianlarich - Fort William
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/whl-helensburgh-upper-oban-fort-william.50372/#post-430894

    - Fife Circle Line (19/1/22)
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/fife-circle-line.51127/

    - Croy Line (14/3/22)
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/croy-line-glasgow-queen-street-dunblane-and-stirling.53920/

    Preparing for:


    Planned:

    - Shotts Line
    Glasgow Central - Edinburgh via Shotts

    - Cumbernauld Line
    Glasgow Queen St. - Edinburgh via Cumbernauld

    - Argyle Line
    Dalmuir - Motherwell + Branches

    In Game:
    - Cathcart Circle Line

    Glasgow Central - Newton & Neilston
     
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2022
    • Like Like x 2
  18. nathanmcclure1

    nathanmcclure1 New Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2021
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    1
    I selected “other” coz I feel like adding a Glasgow to London Euston route (but a mini version coz irl it’s like 6hr journey” would be quite nice with a class 390 in the virgin trains livery as avanti is .I also voted for the Ayrshire coastline route coz I travel on that route almost everyday and love the scenery there!
     
  19. CrazyDash

    CrazyDash Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2020
    Messages:
    473
    Likes Received:
    699
    I'd absolutely love to see the Fife Circle Line. Looks like an amazing route
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    3,446
    Likes Received:
    5,147
    My dream, 4 connected routes, no portals, kgx to Edinburgh.

    My reality, 58 miles in the other direction to Brighton :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,770
    Likes Received:
    5,144
    My attempt at a map for this suggestions series, thoughts?

    (Inspiration for the concept comes from jolojonasgames' wonderful thread collecting German, Austrian, Czech and Dutch suggestions, as does much of this thread, actually, you can find that here: Map Of German, Dutch, Swiss And Austrian Route Suggestions | Dovetail Games Forums - i'd recommend checking it out :))

    Noting that geographical accuracy is not key to this as well, I think this does the trick.
    sr in tsw map.png
    [This post will be the home of the map. As route suggestions come out, this will be updated. -If i remember]
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2021
    • Like Like x 4
  22. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2020
    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    1,408
    Don't get me wrong, I love Scotland's railways and I definitely want to see lots more in the future (the line from Edinburgh to Aberdeen is easily in my top 10 most wanted for TSW2), but I really wanna see a Welsh route first.

    As a Welshman I feel very under represented in both TSW and even TS Classic. There are only two major Welsh routes in TS off the top of my head (South Wales coastal and the North Wales Coast), the latter of which isn't even available to purchase due to licensing with Virgin. There's so much potential for TSW, the aforementioned routes for a start. Not to mention the Heart of Wales line, the Valley lines, the Cambrian Coast line and various lines in West Wales.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  23. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,770
    Likes Received:
    5,144
    I've visited Wales once, and it is a country I'd really like to see in game as well. However I do have a bias towards Scotland :)

    One or two of the valley Lines out of Cardiff, or the North Wales Coastal line would both make excellent routes for TSW, and would be great to see. :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,770
    Likes Received:
    5,144
    SR in TSW - Update.png

    (1/1/21) UPDATE

    New Year, New Update. The thing I like about these is I can just sit down and write my thoughts on this whole "Suggest all of Scotland" thing.

    I'm gonna be honest, i initially wrote this as suggestion to Dovetail to get some more ScotRail in the game. Then, as i was closing it up i had the thought: "Well. I'm all out of suggestion ideas, and I don't want to redo/improve anything I've done too recently (as to avoid becoming a bit "Spammer-ish"), why not do this? Why not sit down, and do a suggestion for every Scottish Route?"

    And here we are, First Day of 2022, and it's still going on.

    So, where am I with this? Well, I have a couple of suggestions lined up for either today or tommorow, i'll probably go and (or at least start to) write that up after this. December was by far the most productive month for suggestions, The North Clyde Line (which i've shelved the remaining WIP parts for now, it's a very tedious route to write about, as most stations feel the same in terms of history, character, etc.), the East Coast Mainline, from Edinburgh to Berwick is one i'm happy with, as it's about the most justice i can do the route. I may go back at a later date and do an alternative version with the 380, InterCity 225 and Class 220.

    Borders Railway, whilst it's not the most exciting route out there, it's a nice one through some beautiful rolling hills, heading towards the English border. The Bonus one, about the Strathclyde 303/311s for Cathcart, in a GWB-type deal, was just something that popped into my head. I felt like making something out of Cathcart, without treading on my narrative of "Layers, not DLCs" for Cathcart.
    And it also means that (if it is made) - it could form a Railtour on any future electric routes in Scotland. Probably should have mentioned that in the suggestion.

    Then we have the West Highland Line one. As i said in a reply in that thread, Fort William to Mallaig is both more likely, and won't feel incomplete without the rest. Trains have to reverse at Fort William between Mallaig and Glasgow anyway, so it feels like a Terminus. Of course, that route also has potential for the Jacobite Steam Charter to be either included or a DLC, when steam arrives. The suggestion from the 30th, which covered Helensburgh - Fort William and Oban (Divided into 3 pieces at Crianlarich), is both if A) Merging came to the game, and B) If all three sections were made (Hypothetically).

    However, the next suggestion coming will be divided into Three parts, and - thanks to overlap with an existing suggestion - one part will probably seem somewhat familiar, if you've seen the suggestion in question. I'm not giving any hints, except "3 Parts", which tells a story about the length of said route. Keep an eye out for that one.

    However, there is one thing I ask of you: (Why does that sound like i'm the villain in an action movie...)

    And that is feedback. All of my suggestions in this "series", from Ayrshire, to the Highlands, to the Capital, take a similar structure. The section about the route dives in depth about the Route and it's stations. We then (more on my use of "we" rather than "I" in a moment) take a look at the rolling stock, and then the service pattern.

    Do you feel like I could/should add something? Tell me. Do you feel like the format works/doesn't work? Tell me. Do you feel like I do a good enough job with the suggestions? Tell me. I'll stop now before I sound like a broken record.

    If you have a question about the route, or if there's something I mention, but you'd like to know more about, ask me.
    The entire purpose of a suggestion is to sell the route to the reader. Doesn't matter if Dovetail read it, if there is no support for it, who's going to buy it, and why would DTG make it?

    On that, I often use "we" as opposed to "I" in my suggestions - especially ones where I take the reader through the route, as if they ride the train through text. Paint a picture of the route - My West Highland Line suggestion being a prime example. I use it tactically to immerse the reader in the route, with the hope that maybe, just maybe, they'll want the route, and support these suggestions.

    I can genuinely sit for hours writing these, with the football on the radio (hence why I primarily type these up at weekends), or some TV on in the background, and i just sit down, and write type. I do these alone. I get the information, I prepare it, and I present it. It's tedious at times, however it's quite pleasing to press that "Post Thread" button.

    And I do notice this has more serious tone than the previous update, however (I'll be honest) I used it as a cheap excuse to bump the thread up. Yeah, i'll be honest, i'm guilty of it. However, considering it connects to all the threads in this series, i felt the need to. I shouldn't have, looking back, but it was worth it, for now this post exists :D.

    Anyway, I'd like to finish with a thank you to everyone who has voted in this poll, or any of the accompanying suggestions. The same to anyone who replies, likes, all that stuff.

    Thank you, I doubt i'd keep this going otherwise.
    As always, Thanks for Reading.

    [P.S. - Thoughts on the Image/Graphic at the top of the post? :)]
     
    • Like Like x 2
  25. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    Maybe make your future suggestions a bit more concise, sometimes it feels like they perhaps give too much information?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  26. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    4,992
    Likes Received:
    8,113
    I was watching the first part of the Videoscene Mossend to Inverness cab ride Blu-ray earlier and it struck me how scenic and curved the section from Mossend through Coatbridge then Stirling to Perth actually is. I must have travelled this section or at least Larbert to Perth in daylight but most journeys were on overnight trains, either the Glasgow or Edinburgh to Inverness (and vv) or the Inverness to Euston. Even in the old Mark One TSO's with tungsten lights, you couldn't see much out the window once it got dark.

    Anyway it struck me this could actually be quite a nice little route for TSW, though you would probably need to spur off to Glasgow or Edinburgh to provide a sensible passenger service.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  27. Iskra

    Iskra Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2020
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    217
    One of the following please; West Highland Line or Extensions, Kyle Line or Highland Mainline.

    If Kyle Line, it would be great to see it set in 1993 when class 26's, 37's and 156's all appeared on passenger trains.

     
    • Like Like x 2
  28. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,770
    Likes Received:
    5,144
    I often feel like they give too little (no, seriously), however there are some things I could be more concise with.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  29. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2020
    Messages:
    670
    Likes Received:
    1,408
    This is likely gonna get me shot, but I've never seen why the West Highland line is such a popular suggestion. I know it has absolutely magnificent scenery, perhaps the best in the entirety of the UK, but I can't imagine it being particularly exhilarating to drive or have much in the way of variety. It could just be that my favourite types of trains to drive are either high speed expresses or stop start commuter services, so my personal biases are interfering.

    I also don't think we're at a point where TSW2 can perfectly capture just how beautiful the scenery is on the line. A lot of routes currently have very subpar scenery, so I feel like if the line was put into TSW2 now it would feel quite underwhelming. I'd want to see it in the future where TSW has evolved it's graphics a bit more.

    My most wanted Scottish route is probably Edinburgh to Dundee, just to see the Forth and Tay bridges. You could have fast expresses and local services on that line too. Obviously Edinburgh- Glasgow would be great to see as well.
     
  30. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    4,992
    Likes Received:
    8,113
    West Highland especially the Mallaig extension is iconic and known worldwide. It would sell like hot cakes if DTG put it in TSW. The appeal would be enhanced by the right traction package, obviously loco hauled is going to be more challenging and interesting for most people.

    So far as the route south of Fort William is concerned, set the period right and there was a fair bit of freight in addition to the two or three daily passenger trains each way. You could also throw in a couple of railtours to spice things up.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  31. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2020
    Messages:
    954
    Likes Received:
    1,046
    It's the sort of route you only want to make once, as it would cover the 'rural mountainous' category of route which we don't yet have for UK content. The gameplay may not be so engaging, but it would provide a welcome alternative to the many commuter routes we have.
     
  32. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    4,992
    Likes Received:
    8,113
    Bear in mind that in Class 27 days it took around 100 minutes from Fort William to Mallaig, multiply by 8 for the 4 return trips plus specials and that’s quite a bit of gameplay.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  33. Iskra

    Iskra Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2020
    Messages:
    126
    Likes Received:
    217
    Sleeper trains too!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  34. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2021
    Messages:
    2,770
    Likes Received:
    5,144
    19/1/22 - Update
    SR in TSW - Update2.png
    Image my own from MSFS

    Despite only being 19 days, the recent "form" in this suggestion series has derailed. Pun very much intended.
    The last suggestion - the West Highland Line, was in 2021, on the 30th. Since then, my attention has dwindled, partly because I actually have stuff to do, or that I want to do, that doesn't have to revolve around TSW. In simple terms: I actually have a bit of a life again and i'm shifting back away from the forums a bit... or at least the "spend most of your day writing a suggestion" side of things.

    Anyway, Game Plan:
    The Suggestions List is intended to be my equivalent of the Roadmap. It's supposed to hint at what routes are coming up, and doesn't. So that's changing soon.
    The OP is also changing to reflect the Suggestions. Some Trains will have their descriptions replaces, the Layering Showcase will likely be changed at some point, and the route descriptions will probably be cut down when the routes in question are suggested.
    Status Updates will continue to be posted if/when I see fit. Today's one is because the Fife Circle suggestion has gone up. The previous one was to set out the plan for early January. Clearly that didn't transpire.

    As for January, i wouldn't expect another suggestion until next month, maybe the end of this one if i feel like it. I had written a suggestion in the meantine: Glasgow - Perth, however it failed to save and is lost now. I'll replace that soon.

    Anyway, that's all i've to say, so thanks to those who have read this.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  35. TSW Nathan

    TSW Nathan Active Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2022
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    223
    Absolutely amazing. I would die for all of these routes!
     

Share This Page