Sehs - Safety Systems In Inactive Cab

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by involvedmass, Feb 6, 2021.

  1. involvedmass

    involvedmass Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2020
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    44
    So I was playing the Shopping Shuttle scenario, and had activated all the safety systems before leaving the first station.
    In the scenario you stop at Ebbsfleet and switch cabs to return back the way you came. I didn't bother disabling the safety systems in the cab I left since the reverser was set to off, and there was no master key inserted. However shortly after leaving Ebbsfleet my train comes to a halt. I return to the other cab and when I open the door there were all kinds of alarms going off :D

    So my question is: Do drivers really enable/disable the safety systems every time they enter/leave a cab? I would imagine the safety systems are required, so I don't see why this would be an issue.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  2. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,001
    Likes Received:
    2,353
    I assume changing cabs should involve in disabling the systems in one cab and re-enabling in the new driving cab. You have to do so with AWS in double cabbed locomotives - can't imagine why it would be different for units like the 395.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
  3. involvedmass

    involvedmass Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2020
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    44
    I guess I'm just used to how it works in german locos. It just feels like in the real world disabling the safety systems is not something a driver can or should be able to do. (i.e requiring a foreman).

    That said, I'm not disappointed since it was something unexpected that happened, which is rare.
     
  4. Perks390

    Perks390 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    120
    It's a bug with certain trains in TSW, the HST is the same. In real life a driver would be unable to reinstate the isolation switches on the back wall as they also require a reset key which I believe only maintenance staff would have.
     
  5. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2019
    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    930
    In real life, disabling a safety system is extremely serious and would never be done without the permission and consultation of the Signaller/Control even in non-driving cabs. On older units, they have switches sealed so you would have to cut the seal in order to access the switch. On modern units, such as the Class 395, you can’t even ‘unisolate’ safety systems. If you see the isolation switch below, you use the master key to isolate. But you can’t use a master key to unisolate it- if you see the small whole at 4 o clock position, it requires a special key in order to reinstate it which only managers or maintenance staff carry. (Well, I say special, but a small pen would work :) ) Apologies for the pictures- they’re both from manuals zoomed in.
    In the second picture of the HST, you can just about make out the red seals on the isolation switches. And just to point out that in real life, the two isolation switches are for DSD and DRA not for (DSD and) AWS/TPWS like in the game.
    8E9749D5-C414-47FE-8E7C-2C8BCADBBE35.jpeg
    76677969-0BE1-4E18-856F-C9185369DF0D.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2021
    • Helpful Helpful x 3
  6. involvedmass

    involvedmass Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2020
    Messages:
    55
    Likes Received:
    44
    Ah yes, that's kind of what I would expect in real life. Some kind of seal you would have to break in order to disable the safety systems.
     
  7. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    1,001
    Likes Received:
    2,353
    All this is good to know - was going off the old AWS in the Class 40s and 20s where you have the switch cab lever and the Isolation lever for on the AWS device itself.
     
  8. Quentin

    Quentin Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    171
    Playing this (Shopping Shuttle) scenario, I saved the game after I'd changed ends at Ebbsfleet, but when I restored it, the train would only power backwards (regardless of the direction selected) soon triggering a red light. I've reported the problem on Kayako, I had identical difficulties with the Köln-Aachen scenario that involves changing ends on a 422.
     
  9. HappyBasher

    HappyBasher Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    64
    I just tried this and had exactly the same problem. So I tried again without the safety systems enabled, but still was unable to move my train after changing ends. This scenario is bugged.

    But to answer your question I would say that you shouldn't have to disable safety systems because in real life they're already enabled for you and unless there is a fault they shouldn't ever be disabled.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2021
  10. Quentin

    Quentin Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    171
    I've had the same issue again on a different scenario (St Pancras to Faversham, so no end change), after saving and then restoring during an Ebbsfleet stop. Powering the train down and restarting it resumes normal operation.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
  11. xblackwolf90

    xblackwolf90 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2020
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    475
    Out of habit, I disabled the safety systems before changing ends as I'd got stung by the same issue before on GWE driving the HST.

    Always worth doing in any scenario where you change cabs, just in case.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  12. delucadomenico2009

    delucadomenico2009 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2020
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    140

    Done the scenario yesterday and completed without problem. When you need to change the cab remember to isolate all safety system and to set the brake staff on off position in the middle and then the master key on off position. Than change the cab and reactivate all system (tvm kvb aws ecc ecc) before start moving. If you want to know, i'ma driver in real life and we do all this action everytime we change cab or stop the train. Normally the master key cut out most of theese system but some of them could be separate from it. And normally we do all theese things with the parking brake applied so there aren't any problem for the train. For exemple in italy for the e655 and e444r the master key do not cut out the RSC of the train. (The RSC is an italian safety system, similar to pzb/lzb in german but a different funcion)
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  13. Perks390

    Perks390 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    120
    That's interesting that you have to isolate the safety systems in Italy, in the UK no safety system would get isolated unless faulty.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. HappyBasher

    HappyBasher Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    64
    did you literally pan down before changing ends, or just the switch to off and key out ?
     
  15. delucadomenico2009

    delucadomenico2009 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2020
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    140
    The answer is easy in italy we have the RSC system. The RSC system combined with the SCMT and the allert makes the train safety without the MCB closed too. The SCMT need to be reset when you change the cab (or just set it before depart and set the other cab in "neutral" if you need to do depot operations) but the RSC do not depends from the train but from the signal on the route. It is not really easy to show how it work but to be fast every signal or train know where a X train is located on the line and in case of emergency it will neutralize the block where the train is running (a block in italy is ~3km) and the train will stop itself without electricity. While for diesel and steam trains the system works in the same way but the RSC is directly attached to the emergency brakes, so you can't remove the emergency brake without activate the RSC. I really hope that in a day DTG will add some italian route because there are a lot of features and trains that can add.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 3
  16. HappyBasher

    HappyBasher Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    Messages:
    91
    Likes Received:
    64
    I managed to complete this yesterday, by leaving the brakes off in the rear cab (that had been the front), and put the pan down before changing ends. Those were the only two things I didn't do in my last try. Normally you would leave the brakes fully applied for safety reasons so if it is a requirement to leave them off that's a big bug!
     
  17. delucadomenico2009

    delucadomenico2009 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2020
    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    140
    The problem is that you can't activate the javelin parking brake to ensure the train. And normally both cab are connected with the master key system and if you activate the master key on the other cab you can comand the brake system without set the brake staff in off mode in the other cab.
     
  18. Quentin

    Quentin Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    201
    Likes Received:
    171
    The second time it happened, there was no end change involved, but still (after saving and restoring) the train would only power backwards. I set the reverser to 'off', took out the master key and then put it back in and followed the startup procedure, after which it was fine.

    I wonder if something similar can happen IRL? I was coming back from Strasbourg in 2007 and we hadn't reached the LGV (which had not yet been extended to Strasbourg), when our TGV started to slow and coasted to a halt. We stayed stopped for about 20 minutes while nothing (apparent from the passenger seats) happened, and I started worrying if we were going to miss our Eurostar connection back to St Pancras. Then all the lights and aircon went off for about 30 seconds, and after they came back on we set off again with everything normal. I guess somebody in the control centre asked "Have you tried turning it off and then on again?" :D
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page