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Service Q353 With Gp40-2 Doesn't Have Enough Power.

Discussion in 'Known Issues & Bug Reports' started by Kuu Lightwing, Mar 4, 2018.

  1. Kuu Lightwing

    Kuu Lightwing Active Member

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    Pretty much the title. It's a manifest train powered by two GP40-2 (with DLC, don't remember how it was without one), and it struggles to climb 1.5% incline after Hyndman, and only could crawl at 3-5 mph. I left it in the background and watched streams and stuff, and managed to slog through it, but then there's an even steeper climb before Mance, and the train finally stalled. I had to decouple some wagons and leave them on the mainline to complete the service.

    I suspect this was previously an SD40-2 service, because I had it completed, and I don't remember this problem.

    EDIT: Apparently there's another version of Q353, and it's powered by two GP38-2. And they have no trouble whatsoever climbing uphill, I can even shut down one engine, and still climb at ~25 mph.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  2. Jef-F

    Jef-F Active Member

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    Yep, that's the extent of borkiness of Sand Patch now. Stock locos, GP38 and SD40, are extremely overpowered. On the other hand GP40, which came later, tuned much more realistically and therefore can't handle services designed for stock locos from the start. You usually can find and take another two GP40s from another service waiting at Cumberland. 4 of them will be sufficient, although will still be sitting in the red sector of ampermeter almost permanently.
     
  3. Kuu Lightwing

    Kuu Lightwing Active Member

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    Huh. I'm running Q640 ATM, and I picked an SD40-2 just in case from a nearby service. I powered it down, but it feels like I'll need it later.
     
  4. Jef-F

    Jef-F Active Member

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    Personally I just restart the service over and over until I get only GP40s, because this is the only even remotely realistically behaving one. What's the fun in having a mixed power if one GP38 can outperform two GP40s? ;)
     
  5. Kuu Lightwing

    Kuu Lightwing Active Member

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    I think the GE one also works somewhat decently. At least two AC4400CW have to work to drag an autorack train uphill.

    But seriously, this saddens me. This game has a potential to be a great train sim, and I think the simugraph thing was a good idea. However, I'm starting to doubt that the game would actually reach it's potential.
     
  6. Jef-F

    Jef-F Active Member

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    After the emergence of modding tools and third-party developers it will I think, given the marvels they've done with TS.
     
  7. Kuu Lightwing

    Kuu Lightwing Active Member

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    I mean, the tools are in the same state of "coming eventually" as traction motor overhaul... And remember my words, once they come out everyone would say that tools are bad or too restrictive, or whatever, and people would go back to the corpse of Railworks (seriously the damn thing lags harder than TSW, turning into a slideshow near any major railway terminal)
     
  8. Kuu Lightwing

    Kuu Lightwing Active Member

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    Also, I'm not entirely sure that this is correct. Does it really take 4x 3000hp locomotives to drag 40 empty wagons? Sure they are road switchers, but it's still quite a lot of power for an empty train.

    EDIT: Quick google search says that there was one example where a train needed 3.5 HP/ton to negotiate a 3% grade. If we have two GP40-2's per 40 empty wagons, that's 150 hp/wagon, and I doubt empties weight more than 30 tons on average. That should certainly be enough power to climb 1.6-2.0% grades at Sand Patch. Sure, GP40-2 might not have enough traction with only four motors, but I don't think it would be as bad as it was. They really feel underpowered.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2018
  9. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

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    There are two ways to look at this-stock stuff is overpowered and the GP40-2 is realistic, or the stock stuff is realistic (as realistic as you can get from the current motors...) and the GP40-2 is underpowered.

    I’m sticking to the side that the GP40-2 is underpowered. You gotta remember that we are working with trains far shorter than the real thing here. Yes, 2 GP38-2a should not be enough to get a normal train over Sand Patch, but all trains is TSW are less than or equal to 50 cars-that’s not normal. Also, most trains are completely empty because the cargo system isn’t good enough to load up randomly generated manifests. 2 GP38-2s are plenty for an empty 30 car train.
     
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  10. Kuu Lightwing

    Kuu Lightwing Active Member

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    Yea, a couple of GP40-2 shouldn't struggle with a few empty cars. I think the autorack GE train is the most well-balanced service out of them. The locos have to work uphill, but they don't slow down to 4 mph. Probably some of the other services should be given less power.

    Or, on the other hand, are we sure that these empty cars are modelled as empty? I mean, we don't _see_ any cargo, but that doesn't mean that their weight is set to tare weight in actual game. After all the autorack train I've mentioned doesn't feel like empty at all, and yet, if you open doors ,you won't see any cars inside.
     
  11. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

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    I’m not very sure on cargo in general...the only thing I know for sure is that cargo does have weight and that all manifest trains are empty (both mass wise and graphics wise). [I asked about it and it was confirmed that the random consist generator can throw in random cars, but has no idea how to put cargo in them.]
    Many train cars have a cargo model and I think that only shows up if the freight car is loaded mass wise (a coal hopper needs to actually have coal in it for its mass to be higher) but the autorack could be an exception...I just doubt that as it does have a graphical load of sedans in the files-I feel like it should be using that if it is loaded.

    For things were you can’t see if they are loaded (tankers, covered hoppers) I have no clue at all if they can even hold cargo and have a higher mass because there is no graphics to know for sure ‘this tanker is loaded, this one is not’ and test the difference.
     
  12. Kuu Lightwing

    Kuu Lightwing Active Member

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    Yea, I also kinda wanted to find a way to open a coil car, but it's not possible... The ones in the scenario feel pretty heavy, but you use a GP40-2 in that scenario, so I can't say for sure why is that.

    But wait, if the autorack train is empty, does that mean that GE AC4400CW is also wimpy? I mean, that's a pretty long train, but it's still ~50 or so empty railcars. Even one of those AC monsters should be able to pull it uphill no problem. I think there's a loaded coal train powered by GE locomotives, but I don't think it felt sluggish, so I suppose the autoracks actually are pretty heavy.
     
  13. Corvan

    Corvan Well-Known Member

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    As an aside; are tanker cars usually filled to the brim or is there room for the liquid to slosh around a bit? If it's the later you could add an audible clue as to whether it's filled or empty when the car is moving.

    The physics behind that would be interesting too, especially during sudden braking.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2018

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