Sherman Hill = Another Definitive Feedback Thread, How Would You Answer These?

Watching the stream tonight I like the look of the route, good to see a wide open route. I love the consist length and think the trains modelled well. It’s like an ever giving screensaver

I’m liking the variety in scenarios and intrigued about the gang one.

Overall really impressed though the sky is still meh and we still have static diggers
I wasn’t entirely sure how I’d feel about a prairie route but I liked how there was a clear transition into the rocky areas. Good to see some nice touches like the snow breaks and the functionality in the wagons. Another plus point is the MFD seem to gradually be getting more functionality.

So my questions are

1. Do you think extra layers will come?
2. What else could be added into MFD?
3. Did anyone catch wind what collectibles were?
4. Will line 3 ever receive an official or unofficial opening?
5. What was the stand out moment in stream (me wondering where the closest post SPAD save point is and the rail fan point)
6. Where do you think the area of improvement are?
7. Will you try a 612car train?

 

1. I don't think we will get more layers unless they add some new loco DLC. There is a higher chance of getting substitutions from Cane Creek at some point.
2. I don't think they will add anything more at this point, since the route is releasing in a week.
3. I don't think they mentioned it, but here is a screenshot that might help you figure it out.
   
   First one seems to be shovels, second warning signs, third looks like fixing some kind of fence (maybe the snow breaks?) and the last one is a squirrel or a failed attempt of drawing a moose.
   
4. The track is laid, DTG wanted to have it but they had no time to build the scenery within the time assigned for this project. If it ever gets done it will probably be done by the preservation crew. At this time, assume it is not going to be done.
5. For me, it was the working MFD.
   
6. Track 3, of course. Also, the TS version of this route had some action in the chemical plant and the plant near Cheyenne (I think it was grain hoppers, but don't quote me on that). I'm not sure if there are services there in the TSW2 version, but if there aren't it would be a welcome addition.
   
7. No. I doubt I would notice much of a difference between a 100 car train and a 150 car train, so no point in trying 600+ knowing that it will probably crash the game.

 

1. Most likely in time they will, but aside from the preservation crew, DTG doesn't really have a history of adding things to old routes, so...
2. No idea what the full functionality of the MFDs are in real life, but I'd love to see proper DPU set up. This whole "banking comm" button annoys me for some reason - I think primarily because that's not what it's called here and it's a little immersion breaking. PTC would be a neat addition, but I think they need to master ATC/ACSES before embarking on another US safety system
3. Don't think they mentioned them
4. I'm assuming they've either put an invisible wall or a "out of bounds" message where track 3 goes off map. At some point I imagine they'll come back and finish it since most of the work was done. Unofficially, somebody will mod access into it. Since signalling and track already exists, I'd probably guess it's just removing the barrier and you can drive on it, even if it's technically off map, but I have no idea how modding works or what people can do
5. Not sure TBH
6. As always is my answer to this...sound.
7. Unless we get a consist editor, no. I have better things to do than spend hours assembling a 612 car train. I would love to see this for real though.

 

I think the working MFD is one of the things that engages me. I think it will eventually have more and more but i guess they’re trying to make sure it doesn’t impact on the learning curve too and the more casual players. They’re hoot see, especially when populated with live info. I liked the aces one but most of it was static as heats not modelled.

this might be one where I install the out of bounds camera so I can see the train from further away. I know I’ll not see 1.6 miles of train in shot but will look good I’m sure.

Matt was saying the night lighting looks similar to moon so it will be interesting to see what that looks like in rain or with cloud cover.
I’m intrigued by draw distance on this too, I noticed in places we were chasing the sleepers being drawn in again when I thought that had been sorted.

Will be nice to see layers in future, I’m going to say something sacrilege here, I’ve not bough any additional American loco dlc as on first glance they look similar to me

 

I don‘t think this is one for them. Improving timetables and adding features is one thing, but doing the scenery for 40 miles of track seems well outside the scope of what Adam‘s team can do. If track 3 doesn‘t come close after release (like the Meißen branch for DRA), then I suspect our only hope is a potential loco DLC down the line enticing DTG to finish track 3 alongside it.

 

Lamplight I think I’d tend to agree here. It’d be interesting to see what condition it’s in but I envisage it’ll be as prairie as they come with next to no assets. I’m taking hope from The fact they’re actively working on larger routes now with clear scenic differentiations. There may be chance some of the longer routes we all ask for are inbound. I did find it interesting they plan their new routes nearly a year in advance which likely means we’re seeing the experimentation for the future lengths and features in early guise

 

Looking forward to the squirrel as most of the route looked lifeless.
Matt said traffic is yet to be fixed so hopefully those expensive roads will show some activity.
It is America so there should be some trucks and pickups, rather than bright blue cars and cement lorries…

That said the scenery looks nicely modelled.
As always gameplay will be the deciding factor.

 

That’s my bug bear with some of the routes. I know it’s train sim worked but the world element to me should denote an air of movement. Ive been past diggers in TS and when you go past that one moving asset makes you think “that persons working too”. With clinchfield, Dresden, Boston, Brighton,Cornwall all continuing with these dead assets I really hope someone puts an articulated boom and it spins round. With how it traumas me now I’d personally send Matt a Xmas card and a spare pair of ears if it was sorted. The route sterility is a killer, even if it was moving animals or something. I get that it’s all expensive on cpu but would be nice at some point

 

Well at least the wind turbines are rotating, so that's a start.

 

Very true. those small things do count.

The less that moves the more it reminds me of being a kid and this

 

I want someone to change my mind, but why is DGT feature a transgender flag on one of the containers on Sherman Hill. I don't want that there.

 

I think it was a nod to it Gabe_1.0

I have no ill feelings but when will we get containers giving the nod to other causes like vegetarianism or migration. I don't want to open a can of worms on it as we're not supposed to be political on the forums which I appreciate but I do question why its needed and the rationale behind that being more important than anything else.

There was a seperate thread on it so probably best to review that as it was locked as its emotive.

 

I doubt that container is actually going to be in the game, it was probably made just for the sake of that video.

 

Well, it was part of the intermodal unit that Matt drove in the preview stream as well, so I wouldn't be too sure about that.

 

Oh, alright, I didn't know about that.

 

I totally agree. I'm neuteral to the subject but what I do object to is having such things shoved down my throat

 

Do you object to any "potential interest trains", or just that one? Haven't seen too many people objecting to "trainbow", "medway city of culture" etc etc
If anything people are ASKING for more differentiation on trains and special liveries are part of that

If the reason you're saying "I don't want that" is the specific issue that one container's addressing, then that's a you issue

 

Exactly that and shutting down the respective thread quickly with a quite clear statement leaves a very sour taste.

 

If the container exists in real life then fine. If it doesn't then we are playing a whole new ball game. The "trainbow" & "meadway" are facts

 

Medway never existed in real life on a train

 

It’s not for anyone to change your mind. I personally don’t like the huge US flag on the loco. The train is already in the US, so no need to fly a flag to show what country it’s representing. I don’t expect anyone to change my mind as to why UP put that on their trains, no more than anyone needs to change your mind as to why there’s a single container having a worthwhile symbol on it in the game.

 

then it shouldn't be represented. Whats next? Containers with the ISIS flag on
The game should be simulating what exists in real life, if such a containers exists then I'm all for it

 

I think we all know its there , we don't know why and I doubt we will other than its there. It's not the make and break of the route so we should probably just think about the view out the front window of the train.

Referring to an earlier comment I did think the cab was a little washed out, was like there wasn't a lot of contrast but I just assumed it was weather and lighting. I couldn't believe though that he basically did a full intro and chewed the fat with Nat for a bit whilst the brakes charged. Lets hope there;s no emergency stops by mistake.

 

Agreed

 

I have to agree, shutting thst thread down felt a bit weird, considering people were just discussing it - there was no arguments or anything.

Regarding the container, I say think of it as a "special container". I mean those exsist, right? Even if one doesn't approve of the transgender theme, surely one container won't hurt.

Though I agree that a more realistic one would be a bit more fitting, but as long as the game doesn't spawn too many of them, then I think it's alright.

 

I'm one of those who don't think it should be thrust down our throats (no pun intended) but if people choose that for their love life due to whatever circumstances, fine by me. It doesn't really have a place in a train sim - what next, environmental messages or Covid "Must get your booster" messages? Also wonder how having such a livery in game will sit with the PEGI rating?

 

I really don't wanna go any further into this discussion but just a heads up that it's a transgender pride flag and gender identity does not equal romantic preference.

 

Very

Very well, but the point is it should only be in the game if it's there IRL, not to pursue someone's personal LBGT agenda.

 

If you told me this a year ago I would agree but after seeing what Adam's team has done with RT and following routes I'm confident they can do it, specially in a route like Sherman Hill that is much simpler than other routes.

 

They definitely should, I would expect this route to be significantly busier than SPG, but it doesn't feel so. You meet 1-2 trains in nearly hour and half, yards are empty...

More information about what DPUs are doing.

I think it will probably be opened by modders first (similarly to Meißen) and hopefully later finished by DTG or someone for them.

Probably a cliché answer, but yeah, horns... especially hearing a new horn on SD40s.

Variety of locos (UP AC44 sub, low chance sub of CSX AC44 and perhaps NS ES44), rolling stock (CSX, CN freight cars, CSX containers, etc.), nr. of train (static and playable), track 3

 

Correct me if I‘m wrong, but Adam‘s team has never done anything major to scenery, right? Obviously, they could learn how to do it, but putting Adam‘s one artist on 40 miles of scenery would take too long, I‘d wager. Still, I‘d love to see it happen - no matter whether Adam‘s team or the core teams take care of it.

 

They have done quite significant reworks for MSB Aschaffenburg docks.

 

Oh, right. Thanks, I forgot about that. Still, that‘s nothing compared to 40 miles, even if most of that is just dead prairie.

 

I don't know if Adam's team has only 1 artist now. DTG is hiring all the time, and AFAIK the preservation crew keeps growing. Also, nothing stops DTG from hiring second parties to help Adam's team with this if they think it is needed. Again, Sherman Hill is much simpler than many other routes. Remember, the plan was to let the auto-gen tech do quite a lot of that branch.

 

Birds?
Someone standing by a piece of lineside equipment as the train rolls by?


Don’t mind the transgender flag or trainbow, but please spare us from Medway as a cultural centre….

 

I really hope the team will be able to find time to go back over track 3 and finish what needs to be done and open the line for players. I know from the stream that the team wants to finish track 3, and I know Matt didn't want to make promises and that the team will already have a full work schedule once Sherman Hill is released, but I hope that they truly consider finishing the Harriman Line and making it a priority. The reason why is simple: The Harriman Line isn't just a nice idea; it's essential to the smooth operations of freight trains out of Cheyenne over Sherman Hill.

Consider this: the Westbound ruling grade of Sherman Hill over tracks 1&2 ranges from 1.52-1.55%. That is the steepest grade a Westbound train will face for its entire journey at least to Ogden, and from there if a train gets routed along the former Western Pacific then it only has to contend with Feather River's 1% grade or if it gets routed over the former Southern Pacific then it needs to contend with Donner Pass' 2.4% ruling grade, but generally trains stop at Spark to change crews and add additional dpus as required to get the train over Donner Pass. If routed via Salt Lake to Cajon Pass it will contend with a ruling grade similar to Sherman Hill (1.55-1.6%).
Sherman is the steepest bit of track a Westbound will face potentially for its entire journey if not until it gets somewhere where it can take on additional dpus for the next climb. The power of the train will be configured specifically to tackle Sherman Hill until some point beyond Ogden.

In real life the power desk has to decide what trains get what locomotives and how many locomotives go on each train, and there is only a finite amount of locomotives on hand. On one hand high priority trains on the UP such as I (standard intermodal), K (priority intermodal), Q (priority manifest), and Z (premium service intermodal/priority perishables) will require more speed due to the time-sensitive nature of their cargo so will typically have more locos and a comparatively lighter load to ensure a higher power-to-weight ratio to get those higher speeds. On the other hand trains such as C (coal), G (grain), M (standard manifest), O (oil/ore/earth material), R (rock/aggregate), and U (unit commodity train) are not so time-sensitive and will get fewer locomotives with comparatively heavier loads giving them a lower power-to-weight ratio and thus lower speeds. Because manifests and unit trains will always be longer, heavier, and have lower power ratios than intermodal trains, in reality manifests and unit trains cannot realistically cope with grades like Sherman, at least not very well and at the risk of delaying those high priority freights without investing in either more dpus or manned helper crews. So what are you to do?

That's where the Harriman Line comes into play. The Harriman Line has a ruling grade of 0.82%, and that is as steep as it gets traveling over main track 3 as far as Ogden, and by then if the train needs to contend with Donner or Cajon it will stop at a yard such as Sparks or Yermo to take on an extra unit or two before continuing on. Manifests and unit trains can tackle a 0.82% grade better than 1.55% and so are almost always scheduled Westbound over the Harriman Line. Intermodals and other high priority trains stick to main tracks 1&2 Westbound out of Cheyenne because with their high power ratios they can cope with Sherman's ruling 1.55% grade and get over it in decent time (usually around 20mph or so). Rarely if ever will you see a manifest go up 1&2 out of Cheyenne, and I defy anyone to go to Cheyenne and look for themselves and see that I'm right. In TSW2 to solve the power dilemma they've put down 6 ACes on what I assume to be all the really heavy trains, but that approach is unrealistic and unsustainable in real life. You're more likely to see 100-car manifests with around 3-4 units because they are configured either for Harriman's 0.82% grade or Feather River's 1% grade which in either case requires less power than Sherman's ruling grade.

The point I'm trying to make here is that until we get the Harriman Line operating Sherman Hill out of Cheyenne will be prototypically incorrect in the case of manifests and unit trains. We need main track 3 to operate the heavier trains where they usually operate. At the same time we'll get more services because of the connection to Denver. You can start a train at Speer and if it's a manifest go up the Harriman Line or if it's an intermodal go up the cutoff to main tracks 1&2 and head up through there. Then there's services running back towards Denver that can be modelled as well. In addition there's the Swan Ranch railroad which connects to the Harriman Line and the BNSF line to Denver and serves an industrial park in Cheyenne which translates to more switching opportunities and interchange operations between the yard at Cheyenne and the main line. More realistic operations and an increase in the number of services for players to enjoy would make finishing the Harriman Line worth it. And they could time it around the release of a DLC loco like the C45ACCTE.

 

Birds would probably be an easy shout. Rail fan dioramas, trackside work would all be nice to see too.
It would be a lovely opportunity to see more skys like this being developed

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...from-cheyenne-sherman-hill-area-part-2.47682/

dwtrain21 really interesting read, thank you

 

My dream, and at this point it is a dream, would be a working dpu control box in the cab. This would give the engineer in the game the ability to control the dpus either in 'slave' mode where they mimic the lead or put up the 'fence' which then isolates the dpus and gives the engineer the ability to control them separately from his control box.

 

[removed by Protagonist - not helpful]

 

I think its best we just move on from the container.

Yes, it is technically not prototypical for US containers as none are painted like that....

While on the other hand having one spawn in the intermodal trains of about 200 containers isn't gonna kill you.

 

Also, if you're bothered by the trans flag design that much, then think of it as free estate for custom container reskins!

 

Birds would probably be an easy shout. Rail fan dioramas, trackside work.
That map

Agreed. It’s weird isn’t it that everyone is forgetting the new horn, the big rock and the far longer route for a container. There’s volume in the voice about it but it’ll either be there on release or discussed internally and removed with no further mention so no point getting loads of threads locked because of it.

 

That trans flag container was not mentioned at all on the stream, I don't think it's been mentioned in any official capacity by DTG (bar the locking of that thread - and even then Nat only really acknowledged it exists), and it only had a fleeting appearance in the stream and video. It's almost as if it's not being pushed down your throats - if they were mentioning it and every opportunity you may have had a point.

This is the equivalent of me complaining about being dragged into a political revolution I don't want to be involved in just because I saw a "vote <insert party name here>" sign in a shop window. You seem to be letting your blood boil over basically nothing (please explain to me why it would in any way effect the PEGI rating), and it feels to me like the Cathcart flag issue again, but with regards to a different flag.

Anyway, back to the route, and some other posts - unless this has changed, the wind turbines only rotate if you have the wind up, and will rotate quicker the higher you have the wind set.
I often have this image of American freight being 2 miles of train going about 2 mph, this route looks to be a bit faster so it is coming of interest to me (past me is currently looking at me as if I'm mad). Will see how it is in the release stream.

 

If having a couple of containers in a game is ramming something down your throat, Im guess you must hate big bird as well right now.

Theres load of things I detest on a personal level but unless it was truely rammed down my throat (some like a message popping up in bright letters filling the screen) Im not going to let it bother me, as life is too short.

If you feel that strongly about the subject, then vote with your wallet, click the uninstall button, delete your forum membership and walk away from the game, and see how quickly you are missed (I'm willing to bet very little). As for it being against PEGI ratings, dont you think that the DTG legal team checked this out first?

Now rant over and back to the topic in hand, I think its a fab looking route - although bit gutted about track 3 and would have preferred the route stopping at Mimosa and had track 3 included. Simply because including track 3 would have been less of a steep learning curve (no pun intended) to master trains twice as long as we've previously had. But then people would still have moaned so guess they couldnt win either way.

 

Well I'm really hoping they get to finish it at some point, as it would be amazing.

 

A Jackalope?

Pretty sure Wyoming has a history of supposed sightings of those.

 

I thought it was a rabbit. I think the warning signs and fence posts were some of the colelctibles (screw spelling) on Sand Patch?

 

Moose and Squirrel must be eliminated, Natasha!

 

Which is essential to real life operation of a long train over a crestline. You can’t start the rear units braking at the same time as the front units a mile ahead and headed downhill, or you’ll likely have a separation