Sherman Hill = Another Definitive Feedback Thread, How Would You Answer These?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Nov 18, 2021.

  1. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Oh. Right.

    Sorry.
     
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  2. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    it educated me thank you. I keep looking at the American locos trying to work out how they differ :cool:
     
  3. WaveyDavey

    WaveyDavey Well-Known Member

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    Well I thought maybe that but on the stream Matt said the two different horns were selected from at random when you get in the loco at the start of each run.


    ***EDIT***

    Just started a couple of runs with each of the locos and both the SD70 horns were the same and both the SD40 horns were the same so the two options of each loco don't appear to be horn related and as per above the horns are selected at random upon spawning.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2021
  4. Solowing

    Solowing New Member

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    Not a bad route, but minor bugs and flaws spoil everything. For example, as an ammeter deviating in the wrong direction. Missing of braking equipment on refrigerated cars, inoperative display in the locomotive.


    амперметр.jpg upload_2021-11-29_0-12-46.png upload_2021-11-29_0-13-12.png
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2021
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  5. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Damn. Make sure to report them in a ticket. The amp meter should be an easy fix, I would suppose, hopefully it gets fixed while they're still in the patching phase of this route.
     
  6. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Yes, by randomly choosing which "livery".
    I just tried it and they are different. Keep in mind that the difference isn't staggering, just a change in timbre.

    Cheers
     
  7. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I'd never noticed that. I'll have to try it. I've spent more time on the other train
     
  8. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    One thing I noticed on today's run and it deeply saddened me.

    I was driving the "Super Fruit" service, the description telling me my train is filled with fruits. Before the service, while the brakes were still releasing, I decided to go to the back and open one of the cars to check those fruits, but... THERE WERE NONE. The reefer cars are all empty, there is not a single box of fruit on my fruit train.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    My immersion and day is ruined. I have the big sad now.
     
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  9. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    It’s the most invisible 6000t :cool:
     
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  10. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Understandable. Very dispiriting. And you can't "unsee " the empty reefers, can you? What other " phantom " cargo is in those cars and hoppers?
    I saw on a stream that the autoracks are full of cars. Haven't seen them in game yet, but I'm sure they're there. So why not some boxes of fruit? Is that more difficult? I think the same is true of the fruit express on CRR, if memory serves me right.
    Or it might be like the coal on Sand Patch. Sometimes it's there and sometimes it's not. Sometimes the hoppers are empty after you've just filled them at the mine head. Then they miraculously fill up en route..... or not.
    If you're playing that scenario where there are "bandits " along the line.... Well, there's another explanation.:)
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2021
  11. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    I find it interesting that DTG called this train "Super Fruit" and not its real life name, "Cold Connect"
    solutions-3-jit-map.png
    49991945452_47982a89dc_b.jpg
     
  12. WaveyDavey

    WaveyDavey Well-Known Member

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    Is it not just the nickname for the service? Or is Super Fruit a different service to what is in Sherman Hill in reality?

    I can certainly find numerous pictures and videos of it online….

     
  13. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Looks like "Super Fruit" was the nickname for the train that originated out of Wallula Washington, (With "Salad Shooter" being the nickname for the train out of Delano, Ca.) Looks like both trains combined in Green River, west of Laramie.

    Cold Connect was the official name of the service AFAIK.
    aaaa.png
     
  14. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Hmm. On your picture, the Super Fruit train is going from west to east. But I was going from east to west. Maybe I was doing the return trip, hence the emtpy cars? Will try the other way next time.
     
  15. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I wonder whether this could be solved by a textured box inside the wagons to look like the load rather than modelled items like the car?
     
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  16. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I'm pretty sure a few boxes on pallets would be more than enough. It's pretty lame that they show up empty. I checked in the scenario planner, placed a consist that specifically said "Reefer x50 [Loaded]", yet the cars show up all empty.

    Anyway I also had my first runs with the SD40, and the first thing I noticed is that the cab windows are really, really dark. I mean look at the contrast between the front windows and the opened side windows. It's like the whole cab has tinted glass!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Also the dark effect around the edges is really pixelated. This glass makes it really annoying to drive from the cab, way too dark. Hope it gets fixed.

    And I just had my first run in the quarry and oh god, it's so ugly. Did someone make it in one afternoon? How could they approve the look of this when the other 98% of the route looks so beautiful?
    [​IMG]
    There are a few assets place here and there, and the ambient sounds are actually pretty good for the area, but the rest..? Barely any scenery assets, not even random rocks or something. Just plaint terrain with a few dirt roads put over it.

    I wouldn't care of it weren't a playable area, but there are services going there and even the SD40 tutorial takes place here... Really, really hope someone from the team takes a bit of time and tidy the place up. It could be such a unique location to the route, but it looks horrible.
     
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  17. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    That tutorial looked like awful, there was literally nothing in front when you spawn. If you look on google maps that whole left side when you start is full of assets
     
  18. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Ooh, doesn't look good at all. Haven't been there yet but that doesn't look like a quarry. A quarry is a large pit in the ground full of very large vehicles and a lot of assets. This looks more like a skate park. What was he/she thinking? Gotta finish this before lunch?
     
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  19. Matto140

    Matto140 Well-Known Member

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    Have anyone run from quarry to Laramie via journey in winter blizzard? It's really tricky to get it move and don't fall to wheelslip.
    My advice, charge BP to 80PSI or more, Notch2 slowly release Independent brake, Notch3 when traction force drop below 50klb, Notch4 if force is below 60klb, and then again notch up only if force is 60klb or lower. (I go to Notch5 at 65klb and fail:()
    Sanding do nothing with traction, and when whole train is on 1,5% gradient you can't start it again.
     
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  20. Gabe_1.0

    Gabe_1.0 Well-Known Member

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    Well Steam deleted my comment and gave me a warning for asking the same simple question there and they said it was disrespectful. I was just asking questions.
     

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  21. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Might have been the manner in which you asked your question… and in these forums, at times it seems manners are a bit lacking.

    I did not see your original post that was deleted, so can not comment on it directly, but in general, with my over 5 decades in being a part of the adult work force, mostly in leadership positions, I have noticed those who rant, rave demand and threaten over situations rarely are paid much attention, while those who come forth with a reasoned, respectful description of a problem and maybe a solution or two usual have a better shot of a favorable change…. As they say, you gather more flies with honey than sh ..

    Again, this is just a general observation the tone and tenor of your deleted question is unknown….
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2021
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  22. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Wow. On the one hand, people are up in arms about framerate and stuttering issues on Sherman Hill, but on the other hand want to load down the processors even more to the tune of 100 iterations per train.

    I suppose a compromise solution would be to install a 2D texture right behind the door painted to look like a stack of boxes. But then, I think the 3D model treats that space as a void, so it can't be textured.
     
  23. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    The issue's grass, it's been figured out for a while that the 3D models ain't the things killing the performance on Sherman. Also if it's really a massive performance issue to have boxes you could do a few tricks to take care of that, like have the boxes only spawn in when the doors are open, or have more aggressive LOD for them.
     
  24. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    A box model can literally be done using 5 poligons if you want to. That will have pretty much 0 effect on peformance, even if you have 100s of them.

    And remember, the autorack cars also have cars in them, so do the hoppers have coal. Both of those sre more poligons than boxes would be, yet performance is not an issue with them. So cargo in the reefer cars wouldn't have either.
     
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  25. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Can someone moreknowing chime in - the SMH SD40-2 has all fans running all the time. The SPG one ran them according to its need - 1 to 3 on the back based on the throttle and the other two based on the dynamic brake (as they're above the dynamic brake compartment). But the SMH one runs all 5 the whole time. Can that happen (SMH seems to be a... "hotter" environment than SPG... although it happened in winter too) or is that a mistake in development?
     
  26. wxtr7

    wxtr7 Well-Known Member

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    Not really. The game utilizes varying forms of culling when drawing primitives. Matt's alluded several times to camera frustum culling (if its not in view, it doesn't get drawn). So 95% of the time what's inside the cars isn't even drawn, probably not even in GPU memory. And it could probably be configured to only draw if the car is open, so even if the car itself is drawn, the contents aren't - similar to how passenger cars don't draw seats unless you're looking at it. Either way a few cubes placed in a car instanced drawn down the train is child's play for any GPU these days.
     
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  27. wxtr7

    wxtr7 Well-Known Member

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    That's definitely wrong. The front two fans are the dynamic brakes, so they should only run if that's being used. The other 3 (the engine radiator fans) I'm guessing they just ran out of time to set up the fan logic here as it was on previous versions
     
  28. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Well the SD40 seems pretty badly done (in comparison to the SD70 and other rolling stock in the game) to begin with. Amp meter going the wrong way when dynamic braking, chains not animating on the rear, mirror hitbox too big, cab window glass too dark. No wonder even the fan setup is wrong. Sadly they clearly didn't make with with as much care as the rest of the route.
     
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  29. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    In the scenario " Get Over It " , I hooked up to the " struggling train " and helped it over the grade. Then as I prepare to reattach my original consist, this train thunders by me on the main track, with no less than 3 locos on the head end and 2 DPU's in the rear! That train needed help? Don't think so. Not very realistic.
     
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  30. wxtr7

    wxtr7 Well-Known Member

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    I agree That dirt on the windows that makes it look darker is especially bad at dusk/dawn when there's low light outside. Fortunately for me, I don't really care for driving things like the SD40.


    I noticed that too. IIRC it wasn't even a 100 car train either.

    Is it just me or does it seem like DTGs scenarios are dropping in quality and originality? One of my favorite scenarios is the one, I think on RSN, where you have the really bad storm that starts causing delays and you have to end the service early. It kept you on your toes of what to expect next. Limited Power on CRR is another good one, I think that's the first time I did a 2+ hour TSW session, got it done on the first try with a gold - felt really accomplished.
    A while ago (around TSW2 launch) there was a push for scenarios to have bad weather and every new route all the scenarios had rain, no variety. More recently there's been a push for scenarios introducing obstructions or delays, except now that seems to be the the only focus. Except they've generally been minor or barely noticeable things and it feels like another A-B run.
    We get like 5 scenarios per route, I'd really like to see the game play team stretch their wings and get more creative and original, and truly make them feel different from a typical service. Sherman Hill I think missed the mark.
     
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  31. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    To be fair it was already on the downhill track. If there's anything to point out in that scenario, I'd probably go for how in the hell did a "relatively" light train get stuck with that amount of horsepower on it? :D
     
  32. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Oh I don’t know maybe a couple of those units failed :) - listening to RailroadRadio.net always surprised to hear how many units get cut out because of problems. Probably not the case here, but not an unlikely scenario in real life.
     
  33. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    The contents of the cars is not modeled for performance reasons. Why model something you do not see normally? It would be nice if they could fake it somehow and make the cargo visible if you open the doors.

    For Sherman Hill, I think solving performance issues should have priority.
     
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  34. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    You could probably make it a simple 2D "wall" with a texture next to the doors. So when you open it, you have the texture of boxes to the left and to the right of the entrance. You could load this when the door is unlocked and the performance hit would be minimal, nothing compared to the cars in autoracks.
     
  35. WaveyDavey

    WaveyDavey Well-Known Member

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    The difference is the fact the autoracks don't have solid sides and the cars can be seen from the outside without opening any doors. The same with the ballast and coal cars. Boxcars are enclosed so unless you open them you can't see the contents. That's the reason the cars and coal are modelled but not the contents of boxcars. As long as the weights are set correctly as either loaded or unloaded for boxcars then what's it matter? I've never personally looked inside a boxcar whilst having the game.
     
  36. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    I agree it is nothing super necessary, but it would be a nice (and arguably I think relatively easy) touch to it. Later it could be used as a new gameplay mechanic - cargo inspection (ok, that's a bit of a stretch, but who knows).
     
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  37. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    As it has been already discussed above, having boxes in the reefer cars wouldn't really have any performance impact. The autoracks and coal hoppers also have cargo modelled, and those are even more polygons than a few boxes would be, yet they do not cause any performance issues.

    The issue on Sherman Hill is mostly the grass. Boxes inside the reefer cars, as far as I can see, wouldn't have any noticeable performance impact.
     
  38. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    Then why even model the interior of the boxcars or reefers in the first place? Trust me, those interiors have just as much of a performance impact as a bunch of boxes would, if not more.
    They could (or at least should) do so pretty easily, games are pretty smart about loading and unloading assets when they go in and out of view. If the game's competently made they wouldn't even need to do anything special. And even if there were issues you could add in some sort of trigger where they disappear after closing the doors.
    DTG are big enough where they can multitask, adding in some boxes shouldn't be a hard task for a developer of their size to do.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
  39. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    We're all grumbling about boxes in the cars yet there are cars modelled in the cars?
     
  40. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Well, in a recent stream, Matt made a point of opening up an auto rack car and showing its many colored contents. Wonder why he didn't open up a reefer. ;).
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
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  41. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    Right, he showed us several different coloured autos in the carriers, then when he went back to look later they were empty, go figure. To me the important piece here would be whether the simugraph is set as full for these cars regardless of whether there or are not boxes of fruit in them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2021
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  42. WaveyDavey

    WaveyDavey Well-Known Member

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    He did. ;)
     
  43. dr1980

    dr1980 Member

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    After getting used to some of the train handling, figuring out the need to wait for the brakes to charge before moving etc I am really enjoying this route. I just finished bringing a tank train into Cheyenne down the long 1.5% grade with minimal over speeds and it required a good amount of planning and execution to do so…reminded me a bit of some white knuckle runs I’ve done downhill in Run 8. Very satisfying when I rolled into Cheyenne without causing a major environmental disaster! :)

    Also have done some nice short local runs in the SD40, had a lot of fun switching the chemical plant. I enjoy playing both engineer and conductor on those type of runs, getting out and throwing switches, using the 3 view key to ride on the back of the freight car as I’m pushing them.

    I should mention I downloaded a sound mod for both engine types and it really brings them to life.

    All in all the most fun I’ve had with a North American freight route in TSW2 so far!
     
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  44. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Empty reefer cars aside, I just did the switching service at the chemical plant. And while the scenery quality inside the plant is a little below avarage, I really liked the look of these two siding tracks that you park the tank cars onto. Just the way they are sunken into the ground really gives them that industrial siding track feel, it's really well done.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I always have problem with how tracks in TS and TSW usually just stick way out of the ground, which is realistic at places like a mainline, but not at stations and yards. In comparison, this is the entrance of the same chemical plant, look how silly it looks like. Not even crossing models placed.
    [​IMG]

    I really wish more care was put into the look/feel of the tracks in general. After all, it's a train game where you spend almost 100% of the gameplay on railroad tracks. For example, most yard tracks and the tracks inside the granite quarry could really use the same treatment as shown above. Obviously no need to sink every track into the ground to the point where the sleepers aren't even visible anymore, but usually at stations and yars the tracks are level with the rest of the ground, not sticking out like a freshly laid mainline track.
     
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  45. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I haven't been to the chemical plant yet but the sunken tracks look very good to me in your screenshots. As you said yourself, that's how tracks look in these industrial sidings and yards. I'll have to check it out myself when I get the chance.
     
  46. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Concrete ties were used too...
     
  47. Alaskan Jack

    Alaskan Jack Active Member

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    Well sir the US flag flies on it in real life so don’t worry actually love it I’m in the Midwest.
     
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  48. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I played this the other day. Loved it. I don’t know how but I stalled out a couple of times and my god did it take an age to get it moving again. Was a great feeling of success when you did though, that gradient, those hills and snow is awesome.
     
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  49. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I was just doing the same run today as well. And man, what an experience!

    I hated it first how it started in pitch black in the morning, but by the time I managed to get morning, the sun started rising and I could actually see, lol.
    [​IMG]

    Many sparks flew to get the thing moving, it was really hard. At one point I stalled and kept rolling back, because notch 2 was not enough to move forward, but notch 3 was already causing wheelspin, so I was going backward either way. The only way I could get going again was in notch 3 and playing with the loco brake to prevent wheelspin. Have to agree with what has been said above, sanding does nothing, from what I can see. Does it even work?
    [​IMG]

    Anyway, after a while I managed to gain some sensible speed, reached the summit and from there it was a nice ride on the way down. Such a nice run!
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  50. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I found myself at one point on the 3 camera watching the wheels for slip. Definitely a notch 3 and independent brake game. This even beats the start off on clinchfield. Brilliant run
     
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