Hi all, considering the fact that French routes and loco add-ons will be free near the end of this month, I thought it might be interesting to have a discussion about customer loyalty rewards. The announcement of this 100% discount sparked some discussion already in the May Roadmap thread. Some players, who have bought a lot of DLC, and more than often at or before release (so at full price, or nearly full price), don't get to profit from the fact that these add-ons are now free, as they already own them, and have paid money for them. Now personally, although I do understand some frustration about this, I can't get mad about this. LGV was released well over a year ago and is already somewhat more dated future wise (and not that good looking for significant parts aswell, although the TGV is a great piece of rolling stock). I paid money at release, and got to play it for the past year. Of course I could have waited and gotten it for free, but I wanted to play it then, and I consider that a privilege worth paying for. Then again, compared to a 100% discount, 30 euros seem a lot, and I understand that some players who have bought a lot of DLC with no or minimal discounts might get upset that time and again it's the players that only buy the core game at full price that get these large discounts and profit from them. I myself have a lot of DLC for TSW, and bought a lot of that at or before release. As I joined TSW a bit later (not playing much until TSW 2 got released), I also bought some of the older DLC's with significant discounts however. And now, with my DLC collection pretty saturated, I'm onceagain holding off on some DLC's like MML and Peak Forest in the hopes that they get some discounts later on (and in the hopes that they already got some fixes out by then, LFR was worth the money, but my experience would've been better if I bought it after the initial release bugs get fixed). The policy by DTG also makes complete sense. It's just price differentiation, which is very sensible if you're selling software, where you can make extra copies to sell at no extra cost. This means that DTG first starts with the customer group that is willing to pay the most for the routes, and then slowly moves down, to attract more customers. The result of this is that customers are more likely to spend their maximum price on a DLC, without having to exclude customers that are only willing to pay lower prices. But there's undoubtably a lot of people on the internet who can explain that concept better than I do. However, even though I get the policy, and dont feel treated unfairly, I also really get that some of the more 'loyal' customers feel like the ones contributing the least to DTG's succes are getting rewarded, and not them. I myself certainly wouldn't mind some customer loyalty programme, but I'm wondering on how that could even look, hence the discussion thread. The issue is that you want to reward those loyal customers, but also not waste too much of your income. It should be a win-win situation ideally, where loyal customers get some rewards, and thus get more out of their money, and DTG gets more loyal customers, and thus more income. So do please tell me below how you imagine a reward system could or couldn't work. Perhaps we can come up with some good ideas, or at least an understanding of the situation. I myself have always thought that perhaps some extra liveries could make for a good reward. To actually add value these should be real world, licensed, alternate liveries, but for a lot of liveries DTG certainly must already have had the licensing. I honestly think that something like the ICE3 Railbow would have made a better customer loyalty reward than a DLC. However, making these alternate liveries means that DTG has to spend extra time on liveries and potentially even licensing, without generating money directly from it. Perhaps they could still sell it for a few bucks to players that wouldn't get it for free as a loyal customer? Again, please let me know your thoughts on if customer loyalty rewards/discounts are neccesary and/or possible, and how you think they might look.
I remember in TSC we got quite a few little free dlcs. Some cool routes like Hedborough North and Port road and also a 4f and GWR castle with multiple liveries are the ones that stand out in my mind. Did anyone play with the free pumpcart too?
I think that customer loyalty is a fallacy in this case, mainly because there's no alternative. I guess you could say "well people are till buying there stuff despite... insert grievance here" but to me that's a different thing without a viable alternative If DTG want to give something away that's obviously up to them. For me they do this anyway, by giving people licenses to TSW1 & 2 DLC in TSW3 version so long as they had the previous license. I didn't pay for the Ashford extension to SEHS for example, although I DID pay for the 465 DLC in TSW2 which those who have TSW3 do not need to do (it's supplied with the TSW3 version of the route without additional DLC requirement) So I guess, I'm saying DTG don't need to give freebies, if they do choose to that's on them, but for people to somehow expect these things smacks of entitlement.
I was thinking maybe we could get a few decals to use in livery designer after completing some goals for example or maybe even like a special overlay. That way everyone can get something for spending time in the game instead of creating a division between loyal and new players.
Are the French DLCs free-to-keep or just a temporary 'play for free' window? I own LGV in TSW, but if it's the former then I might claim the TSC versions.
I don't expect DTG to give away anything for free, I choose to purchase add-ons. Although, I certainly wouldn't object if they did as it would be a nice gesture. However I certainly don't expect it and don't feel entitled to something, certainly not a free DLC. In TSC for a while there were some free items, around the time Riviera in the 50's was released, there was a wartime Castle pack and some other items. But they were only a varient of something already released, I suppose they could do some free reskins or something. Maybe a mark 1 buffet car, I know that would go down well in some quarters!
I'm happy enough TSW matured so far so that I don't have to buy DLC just to (show) support for the effort to bring in a new country (and never use it again since) - that's how that DLC landed in my library in the first place ;-)
I don't expect much freebies, considering DTG has a company to run, but I do appreciate the 'Complete your Collection' bundles that appear on Steam recently. I feel those are a good way to reward loyal customers by giving them a small discount if they already own a fair bit of DLC. Besides, we've also been getting some free updates containing some extra content.
I think DTG should have a BOGO program, just like my local market. Might persuade me to start buying again. I want real rewards, though, not some childish stickers or decals for a program I'll never use. I can get those from Steam if I want to spend the 10 million points I seem to have accumulated. How about a free 104 dmu? That would probably get me to buy PFR. I think I'm entitled, (yes I said the " E " word, folks ) to something, after buying dozens of DTG products for the last 15 years, some of which I played once and now languish in my closet with my old baseball mitt and Star Wars action figures. Yes, let's have some giveaways, my birthday's coming up at the end of the month. Hint, hint......
I have just about all the DLC on Xbox and PC. Probably mostly just for PC going forward, but that's less about TSW and just not getting to use the big tv as much lol. My perspective is that growing the player base is more important than rewarding existing players. I realize this is probably unpopular, but for Train-Simming (as a hobby, not a particular software title) to continue and thrive, we need to get a new generation of players and content creators, so they should cast the net wide, which is why more content outside the "big 3 countries" is also very important IMO, but i digress.
As is important for everything else. I can give an example; my local football club, a scottish championship side, community club, that kind of thing: In the 1990s/2000s we had an owner by the name of Hugh Scott who tried to kill the club so to get the land adjacent to our stadium (owned by the club), as it contains coal, and is very valuable. After him, we went into administration, were bought out at the last minute (5 minutes to go) and then managed into mediocrity for 20 years after. Recap over, the atmosphere around the stadium and our fanbase utterly collapsed in that period (combined with local decline into deprivation), to the point where we had less than a thousand at games, occasionally. We now have fan ownership and a good commercial base with local companies, to the point where on-pitch affairs have improved significantly. But the club's off the pitch efforts to get the next generation into the club (at our last home game, they invited the nearest primary school along to watch), and improve the matchday experience. Until the current generation of young fans - my generation - came through, we relied solely on the "diehards" of the 70s-90s generation. Now, we have an atmosphere, good 2,000 at games, etc. I'll leave it to the forums to spot the parallels between this club, and Train Sims.
This is like walking into the supermarket and demanding a free beer because yesterday they were handing out promotional sodas. It doesn't make sense. Let's just be happy for those of us who didn't have LGV before.
free stuff is great no doubt about that but companies absoultley don't owe us anything, never expect to get something for free even if you're loyal
What's a loyal customer anyway? I mean, aren't we buying the stuff because we enjoy it, not because of any loyalty towards the company behind it? I've been buying quite a lot of content DTG published, but I feel no loyalty towards them. If they stop making good stuff, I'll find another place to enjoy a hobby.
The way I see it, we gave DTG feedback about selling DLC cheaper to people that spent a lot of money in the franchise previously and DTG started having more "complete your collection" bundles in Steam, where you can have some DLC cheaper if you already own some other DLC (instead of the "buy all or nothing" bundles that they previously had). So yes, maybe this can be improved, but also it is not like they did not listen or they did not do anything about it.
Expect nothing for free in life, and then if you get a freebie it's all round a better taste. We all brought routes at the price we paid because we considered it value for money and a fair price for what we expected from the DLC. Do I regret paying (I think)£15.00 for LGV? Not one bit. Am I bitter that if I'd waited 12-18months I could have grabbed it for free? Nope as I've been enjoying running services along it as part of my regular rotation for the time I've owned it. Theres been a couple of annoyances I've had from a purchasing TSW content, the big one was when I purchased Sherman Hill at full price on release only to find it was 70% off less than 2 months later. For me that was too big of a discount too soon for a new route. As a rule if I don't buy something on or close to release I'll never pay full price for it, as I'd rather wait for a sale and pick it up with a discount than run the risk of paying full price on a Tuesday to find a big discount on a Thursday.
I do agree that if you're going to have a loyalty scheme it needs to be something meaningful, in the same way that Tesco Clubcard or Sainsbury Nectar points allow you to get money off items in store when you accumulate enough. It doesn't have to be a massive giveaway (I think Nectar now is something like 0.5p for every £1 spent and even less on fuel. So a £30 spend on a new DLC is going to give you 15p, which is hardly going to break their bank. In fact, come to think of it, the railway and tram book/DVD seller Videoscene do this as of course do Just Trains on direct purchases. So yes, why not especially following the price hikes. The other thing DTG should really consider is permanent price reductions on the older DLC (that applies to both TSC and TSW). If it's been out a year, drop the selling price by 20%, if it's over two years old 40% etc., etc. Point being by then it's made 95% of its lifetime revenue anyway so you might as well see if you can attract a bit more income from it.
I've joined the TSW bandwagon just 6 months ago, playing the Standard edition in GamePass. Since then, I've bought TSW2, almost every route available (SKW is still available through GamePass), and almost all loco add-ons. Some at full price, some discounted. But sure if I would qualify as a loyal customer, probably not. I don't expect any freebie, and I'm not complaining that the DLC paid full price is now discounted. It's how sales work. If DTG wants to create a loyalty program, it's up to them. Maybe they do community events like SCS do for truck sims.
Whilst I wouldn’t exactly call for DTG to come up with some kind of loyalty system, I do definitely think give away or rewards should be focused/potentially beneficial to the whole of the player base rather than just one part (new players or long term players) although I do think their are several interesting ideas and paths a sort of Loyalty system could go down.
There's a ton of things that could be done to reward loyalty without giving out DLC for free. For example I don't understand why the training centre is so under utilised. Why can't existing customers get to run new locos purely in the training centre on a rotational basis,( ie once a new train is released the old one is removed.) Without the need to purchase the related DLC.
Basically loyalty gifts is something you somehow already paid for in other product purchases... it is already a calculated 'loss' for a company. Personally I like the complete your collection bundles.
The best way DTG can reward loyal (and indeed all) customers is by reducing the price of current DLC to something that approaches reasonable.
I don't expect DTG to provide something for nothing to its customers. However if they wanted to introduce some sort of loyalty scheme the could do worse than offer a small discount to customers that had complete collections. For example in the case of a new UK route being released, if the customer had the complete collection of available UK routes then they would receive a small discount on the new release (Perhaps 5 or even maybe 10 per cent). Same for other countries routes.
There´s no such things as "free lunch". Price reductions always will be compensated on other ends. I´d be already happy if DTG would stop breaking with their "patches" what was running reasonably well once. And then stow away and play dead.
Well put, sir! Best way DTG could reward their customers, loyal or otherwise, would be to increase the quality of their products.
Loyal customers?! I’m not sure about that? If you believe a lot people on here, they are never never ever buying another piece of DLC from DTG, that was about 5 DLC’s ago though of course, as they currently fire up Midland Mainline or Peak Forest. The only content I don’t own are nearly every US route, Spirit of Steam and Linke Rheinstrecke. But for example for future DLC’s, there could be a theme. Manchester - Hadfield/Glossop as it features the 323, there could be a discount if you already own Birmingham Cross City. For me the trade off between pricing and enjoyment is important because the game really has provided me with hours of enjoyment, so personally worth every penny.
I do like Just Trains model where you get reward points. It isn't a huge amount but I suppose you could save them up over a year for a Christmas sale or something.
Mentioned that earlier in the thread, along with Videoscene who give you points for buying tram or railway DVDs and other merchandise, eventually you end up with a nice little £2 off. Guess the biggest headache for DTG is how to apply this across the several retail platforms TSW operates over, for TSC not too bad as PC only.
Those kinds of 'loyalty' bonus means you up the price so you can give a discount to people later, encouraging to buy from the same shop. Can't say I like those kind of business practices, but it's fairly common practice. Just bought a game from Humble and now I have some money in my Humble wallet. Basically means they could've sold me the game cheaper. I can use the wallet money to buy another thing from Humble, but that purchase will give me another bit of money in my Humble wallet, encouraging me to come back and back and back and back. Seriously, why would a customer want such a thing? Businesses aren't doing this because it benefits the customer...
If DTG had loyalty rewards, I hope it could be Implemented in two ways depending on which staff at DTG like more. The first way is to gradually make some of the oldest tsw routes free for people who don't have it and who've played TSW since it started. Another way my personal favorite is every year you will be given a percentage (determined by DTG) for how many routes you currently own or have bought in the year. This percentage can be added up over the years you play any TSW game and act like a discount. An example of this is you have a 15% discount for any addons in a in game account linked discount storage which holds your discounts. When you want to use your saved up discount on a route, you can decide if you want to spend all of it on a route or a certain amount which can be used later. Which I think would greatly benefit people in these times who have spent a ton of money of this game.
Well I suppose at least they have put back the 10% pre order discount on most items, which is a sort of incentive.
I agree with some of the above sentiment regarding 'complete your collection' bundles. If you own 3/4 DLCs you get an unofficial 'loyalty bonus', as the last DLC usually works out at a lower price than it would be otherwise. Although, as far as I know this is only on steam, so as a console user I hardly see the back of it. I, as do any other Game Pass owners, recieve 10% off pretty much every DLC (£2.50 off a TSW2020/TSW2 route, £3 off a TSW3 route, on average) - so it does mitigate the lack of the bundles I mentioned. I feel like a system of those and, perhaps, cuts on DLCs that are short and reuse trains (Glossop Line, for example) should be a standard thing.
Yes, seems I wasn't paying attention. Point stands though. Not sure if it's worth celebrating the 10% pre-order bonus, considering the discounted price is still more than the full price new DLC used to have. :P EDIT: pre-order bonus exists to help sell more content, probably because of FOMO. Celebrate it all you want, but DTG didn't do it for us.
Actually wasn’t it a 20% rise? £25 to £30. And in some respects tallies with discussions above, put the price up, bring back the discount (£3 in the case of a £30 route) and they are still making more money than before with no discount!
If DTG did a loyalty rewards scheme, they'd only mess it up! That's possibly one of the things they are really good at!
Loyalty is nice a name for faithfulness regardless valence or worthlessness (dogs are pretty good example
