Should East Coastway Join To London Commuter

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Oct 3, 2021.

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  1. Yes, I'd love to run straight through to the second route?

    147 vote(s)
    71.0%
  2. No , not for me

    8 vote(s)
    3.9%
  3. Indifferent

    35 vote(s)
    16.9%
  4. Keep them separate

    17 vote(s)
    8.2%
  1. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    A nice simple one. What do you think? Would you like to carry your journey on into the next dlc

    I appreciate there's a lot of complexity in this but a little more noise on the subject is always good for this route or others.

    Should the two routes be physically linked up?
     
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  2. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely, if and when it is:
    1) feasible within the confines of the Unreal engine/how routes are built;
    2) technologically feasible so it doesn’t set everyone’s PS5/Series X/PC on fire; and
    3) when the development resources, money and time, can be sufficiently allocated so as to do it properly, revise the timetables, and make sure it all runs correctly without bugs.
     
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  3. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    Would I like it ? Yes
    Is it likely to happen ? No
     
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  4. MisterV

    MisterV Member

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    Hard to argue with any of this. I don't think there are many people who would not want it. But I would rather wait for DTG to figure it out properly than rush it and get it wrong. The ideal scenario would be one where the service modes sync up so services that would previously end could now run to their final destination. A plug and play solution where you could build up a network over time with future DLC and it all works as it should.

    But that sounds like a huge undertaking and one I imagine DTG are all too aware of.
     
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  5. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I think it would be incredible to start on south coast, take route up to London and then a tube to ECML or WCML. If the routes became more modular and more of uk was covered it would be incredible. I’d envisage German and US fans would love to slot some routes together similar to Lego to create their masterpieces
     
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  6. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    I'll quote my own post from the other thread as it's about as close as I'm likely to get tonight to explaining why I think this is important.

    Beyond this, I strongly feel that this would encourage further DLC purchases from those with incomplete collections or 'missing links' - and frankly any way that DTG can continue to make our (let's be honest) niche hobby profitable to the point they can hire more team members and create more quality content is a good thing to me (hence my general support for extending TSW availability onto consoles and Epic even though I'm a PC Steam user and it doesn't directly impact me).
     
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  7. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I’m definitely a staunch advocate of routes being connected.

    It will make the game feel more ‘world’ like!
     
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  8. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Yes i think that would be fantastic. Hope it happens at some point.
     
  9. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure most players would love to create a network of connected rail lines, who wouldn't? The software will certainly be available at some point, if it isn't already.
    Would it be viable in a business sense for DTG? How would they sell such a product? Probably separately from the routes themselves.

    I'd love to link all the segments of the NEC, for instance. Or link Clinchfield with NS or CSX.

    I know the specific question is about ECW and BML, and that would be fun too. I presume services from Eastbourne to London via Brighton are real.
     
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  10. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Considering the amount of noise regarding the already underpowered last gen machines, I don’t see DTG digging this hole for themselves yet.

    However, I do very much like this idea, there’s obviously the question of the technicality of timetables and trackage etc, although if DTG stick with realistic timetabling that should somewhat mitigate that issue, but even then, just off the top of my head, the Railtour layer would be an issue since it would just spawn into existence at Lewes, then you’d have to consider loco DLC’s will now become even more expensive develop if you consider that they’d potentially have to be timetabled through multiple routes, and we already know that those DLC’s don’t sell very well.

    After that the question is cost and time, I doubt DTG see the venture being worth the risk considering doing a route connection would probably cut significantly into their usual DLC schedule.

    I think we are more likely to see end to end routes popping up more as time goes on, as opposed to linking routes, since the former is going to be more economical than making 2 routes plus an unknown amount of work to connect the two.
     
  11. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Yes they should be connected. We have so many benefits with tsw2 compared to ts2022.

    Ignoring to create network based routes like we have with london commuter :& eastcoastway feels like a giant missed opportunity. Nobody is asking to get a merge for free. I would pay extra just to get them connected and working with the layers.

    I guess this has to come by the community first..xd
     
  12. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    I'm indifferent to joining existing routes together. East Coastway is complete as it is and London - Brighton has a lot of stuff going on in it's timetable. So much so that last gen consoles don't get the bonus layers again. If you were to merge the two together, would the previous consoles have to lose the East Coastway railtour and 66 layers? They can just about handle the 1,000 services between the 377/387. Also, would we have to start progress on each route all over again for the merged version? There's probably a bunch of other things DTG would have to consider.

    Personally I'd be happy with a simple marker at Brighton station on each route, like the scenario markers you can find when walking on foot, that loads the opposite route. Have this one a green marker to differentiate between the blue scenario ones and on ECW have it say something like "travel to London Victoria" and on BML "travel to Eastbourne/Seaford" and then you press confirm to load the route in. I think something similar would be cool for GWE/BKL and RSN/RRO.

    Even then it's not something I'm massively fussed about. I'd rather see branch line extensions, where applicable, to existing routes rather than merging. I'd also rather see a DLC in the similar manner as Diesel Legends for Brighton Main Line that involves some of the old electric slam door stock.
     
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  13. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    It could be that future routes are made to lock together and they have a built in function to link all or the parts of interest

    Kings cross to Peterborough
    Peterborough to York
    York to Edinburgh
    Edinburgh to Glasgow
    Edinburgh to highlands.

    Same with WCML too
     
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  14. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Active Member

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    With the steady stream of routes lately, this is an area I really feel they should focus on. For example, let's say that they come out with a Reading-Oxford route at some point. When I'm driving the 43 on GWE and pull into Reading - I don't see why I can't get a popup box asking if I want to continue to Oxford, and it loads that next DLC keeping the same train, time, date and weather settings. I would also hope that the timetables for the new DLC would be synced to the old when they made the route, just as it would be in real life. i.e. not having them wildly mismatching.

    On a slightly related note, I really wish we had the option to just select a train. "What do you want to drive today?" I choose the 43 and up comes the list of DLC that it can run on, that I have (wouldn't even mind the ones I don't have greyed out and with an option to purchase), and a button to enable off the rails choices. So carrying on with the Paddington-Oxford theme, I choose to drive the 43 and start at Paddington. On arrival at Reading it would ask if I wanted to continue on and load that DLC as described above.

    I really hope they figure out a way to do interconnected routes, there is very clearly a desire.
     
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  15. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    This needs to be done so that you can do Eastbourne to London Services with your ECW train combining at Wivelsfield for the trip to London if BML gets the Wivelsfield branch line to ECW Lewes. At Wivelsfield your ECW Class 377 combines with a Brighton Main Line Class 377 for the Wivelsfield Gatwick Airport London Victoria section. To Eastbourne Stop at Wivelsfield to separate ECW Class 377 from BML Class 377 since it's doing London Victoria Gatwick Airport Wivelsfield Brighton service. After the separation at Wivelsfield, you can then control the ECW Class 377 London Victoria Gatwick Airport Wivelsfield Lewes Eastbourne.
     
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  16. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I think there is a dedicated track that bypasses Brighton and connects London Victoria directly to Lewes? Unless that's modeled there would be little reason to merge the two.

    Brighton is a terminal so it wouldn't be a problem for me to go back to the menu. I voted "indifferent"

    The routes that really need merging are those that end at thru stations, for example HRR and SKA.

    For a possibility of a ECW merge I'd rather see trains go further beyond Eastebourne to Ore and Hastings to do a complete service.
     
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  17. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Are we prepared for waiting thirty five minutes on a rain swept platform for the delayed Littlehampton connection?
    Not all connections take place in covered terminals.

    Personally I feel dtg have got route lengths reasonably right. What you’re asking for is doubling it.
    Not so certain it would be that popular.
     
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  18. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    I personally would, but they would have to build the spur of track from Lewes to the bml
     
  19. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn’t keymer junction to Lewes need to be modelled?
     
  20. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I think it hinges on return on investment vs dev time. I love the longer routes on ts21 but just refuse to load and play it when Tsw2 is so much better to look at. With the save function I don’t think longer is necessarily bad
     
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  21. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I put no, because the Northern loop at Lewes isn't modelled. There are very few trains which go down the BML to Brighton and then reverse up the ECW (or WCW for that matter).
    Had DTG modelled that track then I would say it was necessary (such as extending the current 66 aggregate runs from Newhaven all the way towards London) but DTG say they can't do this because it breaks achievements etc
     
  22. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

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    I have an inclination that DTG is working towards it. In the current situation, if you complete a run which gets taken over by AI to bring outside of the map, you can stay in the train and you will get a message saying the area is outside of the represented area when you get to the edge. This would be the portal and someday they will figure out a way to make it go to the other map if you have it in your game.
     
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  23. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely correct and the message for it if ECW is Owned Do you like to continue service on East Coast way Yes or No? In the case of East Coast way you end up driving Wivelsfield Lewes. Germany Riesa-Dresden version is do you like to continue on to a proposed route Leipzig Riesa Yes or No?
     
  24. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I do think they need to discover a way to have it seamlessly link or display the out of represented area if you do not have the DLC. I think it will only set people off if you get to a quick load screen when you think you are continuing on. Any sort of load screen to me negates the join.
     
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  25. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Active Member

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    Well that's the beauty isn't it? If you arrive at Reading (using my example above), then those that don't want to drive on to Oxford simply answer no. Those that do choose yes. That way, DTG can keep releasing DLC's of the same length but give us the option to daisy chain them together. So if I want to drive from London Euston to Glasgow Central, for example, I could simply load X number of individual DLC's one at a time, each one carrying over the same details as the previous (date, time, weather, train particulars and settings, etc). DLC's which, of course, could be played standalone with no extra increase in length.
     
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  26. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    A potential solution I've seen mentioned elsewhere here is a skip time feature. To keep it simple just skip in 10 min blocks or something.
     
  27. stijn.claessens

    stijn.claessens Active Member

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    Do trains work like the Jaegers from Pacific Rim?
     
  28. paulc

    paulc Well-Known Member

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    What's to stop them holding you at Brighton at a red, loading screen appears etc then part 2 of the route loaded (providing you own both ECW & LDN/Bri) then green light & carry on?
     
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  29. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    DTG could create a "Route Network Dlc addon", which charges for following:

    - merging 2 or more routes to a nerwork
    - adding additional tracks where it makes sense (lewes junction for example)
    - adding additional services

    I would pay a full dlc price for that amount of work and im sure there is a solution to the archivements.
     
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  30. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    That would be fine minus the load screen. Speaking for myself only I would like to be in a position where whatever routes I own daisy chain. If I own them consecutively I'd like the game to know this and stack them ready.

    If I get stuck at a red and theres a load screen then to me its not much ground gained on jumping out to the other dlc through menu. I'll be interested to see how this develops.
     
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  31. Bigphil1592

    Bigphil1592 New Member

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    For myself, it would totally depend on things such as the cost to the player. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against the idea and think it would be a pretty cool feature, but unless there was an extension that included the track that ran directly from Lewes to London, then it's not something that I would personally be too bothered by.

    For me, I wouldn't want to spend the money to stand around at a virtual Brighton for twenty minutes as opposed to finishing one service and loading into East Coastway in less than two minutes.
     
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  32. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Active Member

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    That's a good idea, but as davidh0501 said above, there are those that like the route lengths as they are. So while I like the idea of a no-load screen daisy chain, some sort of accommodation should be made for those who just want to play the original route. Perhaps select a destination at the start of run? That might work.
     
  33. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Well those who like the lenght as it is now, can just play the 2 seperate routes as they are now.
     
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  34. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Here an other example:

    "Route network dlc addon - Great Western Express & Bakerloo line" :: 10 euro

    - connects the bakerloo line with gwe at paddington station
    - extends paddington station to go underground by foot

    No matter it makes sense or not, i would buy that just to get network based content.
     
  35. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I think an element of this will be them choosing timetables with some parity. If the time tables are similar then this should work. I still maintain that the similar time scales of East Coastway and BML and SEHS are going to start connecting together somehow through layering or route mergers.
     
  36. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Whilst Im not opposed to them being joined up, unless its a quick job (which given its not been done I assume its not) I wouldnt want this to take precedence over other improvements personally.

    I just think given that Devs time is a limited resource that theres far more important stuff I'd love to see prior to routes being joined up.
     
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  37. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Very much this. I would pay £24.99 for a pack that included the EPB, VEP and CIG/BIG electrics, maybe throw in a Thumper for the Oxted Line too.
    Likewise I would pay £24.99 to buy Thames Valley again with the various branch lines (including Brentford and Colnbrook) added and/or an extension to Oxford.
     
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  38. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I can't see how they'd ever make a legitimate business case for this. You'd be dedicating time to a DLC which only a limited number of people would buy, from a limited pool of people who have and regularly play both route DLCs. I own both GWE and Bakerloo, but rarely play on the Underground. Do I have any interest in specifically linking the two together? No. Would I pay for the privilege? Absolutely not.

    Even the ECW suggestion - I only bought ECW because it was in the sale for about a tenner; I definitely wouldn't pay the same again just to link it to another route. Plus there would need to be perfect timetable parity between the two routes before you could even begin to link them, otherwise you'd be getting trains spawning in at times that the route isn't ready for them and it would be red lights ahoy. I'm pretty sure Joe isn't going to commit another few months of his time to sorting the receiving end of the BML timetable for ECW. And again, you'd only be targeting the small proportion of players who own and actively play both routes.
     
  39. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    How about a 1988-2021 Class 442 EMU that way you have a Retro Gatwick Express
     
  40. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    It all boils down to the same thing, having route extensions where trains go from one DLC to another

    Don't even need to do that. At Brighton you're changing ends anyway so it would reload when you take over the rear cab, and if the tile for Brighton is the same in both DLC then it can happen almost in the background, with only the timetable needing to be sorted out which can happen when you get off map
     
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  41. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    Do people generally sit and drive the same route for hours on end? I might play a few services if it's a brand new route, but tend to flit about between routes to keep it interesting, so the likelihood of me ever doing more than one consecutive service is pretty slim.
     
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  42. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Yes, people really do. Look at TS1 where people went on and on about having full drivable routes from London to Scotland! There's a few youtube vids of people driving full length (over 4 hours)
    Personally I dip in and out of TSW but I generally stick to one route on journey so I remember the stopping and slowing points. If I went from route to route I'd likely forget in between
     
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  43. heliq

    heliq New Member

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    I totally agree, we need routes that are much longer.
    Now you seem to be driving on a stub of something more interesting.

    P.S
    I want a route from Lubeck to Frankfurt at 101. Without ending in Hamburg = /
     
  44. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Want...
     
  45. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    True enough. As I did the grind on Dresden to Riesa last night and ended my run in Riesa my thought, amongst others, was "Is that it?" I would much rather some effort went into creating a complete network or a decent length of run would be better. As I said in another thread, there are only so many identikit bland 40 mile/50 minute commuter drives I can take.
     
  46. Asyedan

    Asyedan New Member

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    I think doing a full merge of DLCs would be very difficult if not totally impossible due to game coding, engine and/or hardware limitations. A decent, much more feasible alternative would be to link services you can run in two parts, just like paulc said. End the service at Brighton, and a new button in the end of service UI would appear to continue said service in ECW, you click that, it puts a loading screen and you load in ECW to continue the service. That way you wouldnt need a lot of work to link services.

    I would like the Lewes-Wivesfield branch to be added to ECW too. I think ECW would make more sense since BML is already full of services and adding a pretty busy station like Lewes wouldnt help, while Wivesfield wouldnt impact ECW's performance very much (and some of the AI services that would hipothetically go through Wivesfield in ECW would be the exact same AI services that depart from Brighton so thats even less work to do).
     
  47. Ben132465798

    Ben132465798 Active Member

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    Don't you think they'd to this with RSN and RRO if they want to?
     
  48. Ben132465798

    Ben132465798 Active Member

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    I get you point. BUT: some of us want to have longer services, do the same but whithout switching through the menus.
     
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  49. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Well-Known Member

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    Unless DTG can guarantee more full length routes like BML (This route was very much an outlier)... than I think route extensions would be a logical exploration. There is very clearly a demand for both longer routes, and connective routes. It also adds to the purchase factor of other routes and the philosophy of "completing your collection."

    We also have a PC modder already accomplishing this on the scenery side, so it's not out the realm of possibility.

    But, for this to happen in the long term, DTG will have to think more modular than they have been. Like having 3 seperate versions of the same train, instead of fixing the initial. Otherwise they will start tripping over their own mistakes.
     
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  50. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Active Member

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    One impediment to longer routes might be the broken save feature, which creates the need to start and finish in one session. Which brings up a tangential question: Is the save feature broken completely across TSW2 or just for certain addons?
     

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