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Should We Take It Easy On Dtg For Tsw?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by iosman1234, Jul 12, 2019.

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  1. Thelonius16

    Thelonius16 Active Member

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    How does it make any sense to go on the company forums and call the developers lazy, claim they are screwing customers over, and compare them to North Korea? What's the endgame? Are they supposed to feel bad and go work somewhere else? Are they supposed to start posting here and let you abuse them personally? Are they supposed to hire you on to put all your great ideas into action?

    No employee of a company will ever engage with customers who talk like that. This sort of behavior is just going to further reduce the non-communication that many people have complained about. The one person who has to read this stuff is Dmitri. What's he supposed to do, go to the morning staff meeting and tell the developers that the people who buy their products think they are incompetent and lazy?

    Of course they want the product to be better. That's how the company makes more money and they keep their jobs. If you want to help them fix the product, you have to give well-reasoned input and act in a professional manner. No one is going to listen to attacks and arbitrary overblown complaints.
     
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  2. Boyka91

    Boyka91 Active Member

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    Agree
     
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  3. Typhomat

    Typhomat Well-Known Member

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    Very well stated.

    Reading this thread, and being someone who has enjoyed the TS platform for many years now, this is my perspective.

    Management wants to make money, we want content, devs want time. The happy medium would be content that sells thousands of copies, runs relatively well, meets the users expectations, and is delivered in a timely manner. The truth is that isn't going to happen, and something gets shortchanged. Usually it's quality and bug fixing. The mentality that a patch can be released allows for more buggy content because "we can always fix it later" or "put it on the list". Lets look at routes that Rapid Transit and the Northeast Corridor. The signaling systems were broken on both routes during initial release, and for NEC, it still is. The Metroliner Cab Car was released without a working in-cab signaling system because DTG knew it wouldn't work right and the schedule would be unachievable. Instead of fixing the system, a feature got removed. Sad. The route is nice, but when features don't work, specifically when we use the term "realism" with the content, it feels cheated.

    We should challenge DTG and speak our minds with constructive criticism but also with our wallets. If we keep buying content, they won't have a reason to change their ways. The devs would love to create better content, but it's not their fault entirely, it's the people at the top who determine a lot of that. It taken a community uproar to get them to fix Rapid Transit, but those lessons didn't convert to NEC.

    Money talks. We should be critical, but wisely.
     
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  4. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    That's a point. If Trainz or Microsoft or somebody like that stepped up their game enough to compete and threaten DTG's hold on the market, they would have to implement more quality control to stay in the market. Because in that case, if they kept doing what they're doing now, people would just go to the competition, who would have better products for (most likely) lower affordable prices. I really hope something like that happens in the future. I play Trainz and have always loved it as far back as 2006. It definitely has the best route editor out of any train sim, but there's almost no realism. The driving sucks and even though there is a way to make your routes look extremely realistic sometimes, it's really hard to do and requires a ton of attention to detail.
     
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  5. KiwiLE

    KiwiLE Well-Known Member

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    Is that a general consensus or a personal view and from what perspective are you basing that all-encompassing comment on?

    You say that you love Trainz and have been playing that for a long time but TSW is far better in terms of realism and physics, hands down. It still has room for improvement but as a train driving sim, the driving certainly doesn't "suck".
     
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  6. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    I meant the driving in Trainz sucks. I was saying that Trainz has a much better route editor, but it has poor driving and nonexistent physics. TS has much better driving controls and physics, but the route editor sucks, and TSW doesn't have a route editor at all. It would be cool if we could take the graphics and driving controls and physics of TS and TSW and combine it with the route editor and abundance of route building assets of Trainz. It would make for a great sim...as long as there's basic quality control and any problems that pop up get fixed or at least responded to in the proper way.
     
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  7. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    Well I wonder if Microsoft Train Simulator will return. Microsoft Flight Simulator has. If Microsoft Train Simulator is made remade I wonder how it will affect TSW.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2019
  8. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    They won't. Lack of demand unlike a next gen flight sim
     
  9. Big Papi34

    Big Papi34 Well-Known Member

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    Oops that was supposed to be I wonder if it will return. Looks like my spelling passed my brain lol.
     
  10. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand how you can say this, when Dovetail is making bank doing this along with Trainz and Run8. Clearly there is a market for these types of games, otherwise Dovetail wouldn't continue churning DLC after DLC and would just fold, or the other two competitors would have shut down already. Plus, they even decided to spend development time making a console version of this game.


    I predict if the Flight simulator does well, they will begin to look into Train Simulation.
     
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  11. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    Here's the thing. Flight SIM fan base is way bigger than train sim ever will be. For crying out loud our next gen SIM doesnt even support a train controller. Lol. That aside, flight simulator is the staple in digital training for real world pilots. Thats the biggest point of them all. These sims we have, the ones you mentioned are nothing but games. Sure some simulate more than others but c'mon. The physics model between flight simulator and even the best simulated train sim (prolly run8) are vastly different in their usefulness for real world exercises. And That's the whole point there hasnt been anything but msts when it comes to microsoft and partners. Tsw will never be close to flight simulator also because.. Lets see here, we've dropped many things for the sake of performance and consoles. For how many years did flight simulator not run worth a crap on any machine? But compromsing on detail settings never look away from the actual usefulness of the SIM.
     
  12. Typhomat

    Typhomat Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe any of the companies you mentioned have large staff that are devoted to game development though. Train Simulator is a niche market, the flight sim community is many folds larger. Microsoft Flight Simulator X was released with a TV advertisement campaign for instance. The appeal is different. Why did MS go back to flight sim? The market is large enough, and due for a change. It also can help sell their new console. The target of Train Sim, particularly in routes is so laser small that it's hard to appeal to many customers.

    DTG can maintain (hopefully) a profit with the constant churning of DLC because there is no direct competitor and people will buy it because they might see enjoyment in it. One of the biggest parts of economics is supply versus demand. Not a large supply of variety, and enough demand, and you'll move content. Define the right price helps too. The fact they are still in business isn't because the market is so large, it's because they fill a void and profit off it.

    If we go back to the days of MSTS, routes were very specific. Mainly famous or unique routes that appealed to many people interested in the genre. In the time between MSTS and now though, MS released 4 flight simulators. FS2002, FS2004, FSX, and Flight. MS tried to develop a new train sim multiple times and pulled the plug each time. It just isn't feasible or believable.
     
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  13. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    We don't even have cab sway lol. And no dynamic weight physics on cars. Isnt that the whole point of train simming? Hauling weight. Flight SIM dynamics include weather and structural integrity of the aircraft and many other things. Tsw is a joke in comparison. Wait til the editor and we'll see.
     
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  14. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Please do not put words in my mouth. I have never once said that TSW/DTG is perfect. I know that there are some issues/bugs, but many people make it seem so much worse than it is.
     
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  15. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    2020 style - full length routes maybe?
     
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  16. nne4229

    nne4229 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe since its 2020 we can simulate cab sway?
     
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  17. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    Train Sim World 2020: Digital Deluxe Edition

    A brand-new US west coast route will be launching alongside Train Sim World 2020 on August 15th. More details will be revealed soon about this add-on, which will be available separately or as part of the Digital Deluxe Edition.
     
  18. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Very excited about the news dropped today, hoping in the coming weeks they start dropping teaser hints of what the new will be.
     
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  19. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    Some people live on here I wonder how your wives must feel lol!

    Post the latest news before DTG
     
  20. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    In your humble opinion? And, by the way, I always think before clicking on one of those opinion icons. Moreover, your basic premise is completely false.
     
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  21. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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  22. John Murphy

    John Murphy Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't really seem like it. Usually it's an automatic downvote if somebody's not practically saying that DTG is God.
     
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  23. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    There are also those who downvote any comments which show any positivity to TSW but I suppose you think that is acceptable! Also the use of the word "fanboys" is immature and rather pathetic.

    I can see faults with TSW there are things that need fixing and things that I would like to see done differently, i.e. more atmosphere included on routes. However I also get immense enjoyment out of it and am looking forward to the future so on balance it has been a good investment for me so far. I also think that some who criticise the way DTG should try going into business themselves.

    If all this makes me a "fanboy" then so be it, I just see myself as a railway enthusiast who gets enjoyment out of train simming and taked a balanced view.

    Is it perfect, no, is it the complete disaster some posters on here would have you believe, definitely not!
     
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