Simrail 2021 Vs Tsw2

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by arapajoe3, Oct 13, 2020.

  1. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    TSW has a younger sister who will grow up. A lot of yes, a little of no. BR o7
     
  2. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    Reaction online seems to be quite mixed at the moment. Will have to see how this changes when the game has it's full release.

    Personally I'm happy enough with TSW.
     
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  3. Oli R C

    Oli R C Member

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    For me, I'm very frustrated with TSW. Sounds are the biggest gripe for me, then lighting, but a lot of other things, too. All stuff that is regularly complained about here on the forums. So I've stopped playing it. I still come to this forum every day, and I cling on to the hope that one day I will love it. But I've not purchased a route since Clinchfield. Or rather, I've gotten refunds on stuff I've tried since. The latest Dresden route was an abomination in terms of audio. After trying the near silent cab car (since that's what you start in), I went straight for the 101 because I know it's a good loco. Half way along the route I lost running sounds because I pressed pause once too often. That was it for me. I won't be back until I see something that makes me believe things have actually improved.

    The SimRail demo hits the spot for me. It already has features people have been crying out for in TSW for years.

    I don't rank fancy graphics particularly highly when it comes to what's important. SimRail may not have the graphical fidelity we're used to with TSW, but it's still a good looking game.

    But what it is, is a more pure simulation, and that's absolutely what I'm after. Everything that we've come to think of as normal in a train sim, like stopping at exact markers in a station when there's no reason for it, can be completely forgotten. It does away with all that kind of stuff.

    People on Steam and discord are even complaining that there's zero margin on the stop markers in SimRail, because when they go past 0 on the station indicator, their stop doesn't count. Nowhere in the game, does it tell you to stop on zero. You can stop ANYWHERE on the platform. You decide where is best. So where have they got the notion you stop on the exact zero? TSW. This is why I say, when you play SimRail, forget everything you know from TSW.

    Anyway, so for some people, this may well be the new go to train sim. The devs have confirmed they're working on performance and draw distance. The selection of trains look awesome, and a 500km route. Sounds like heaven to me. It's in Poland. Fine by me.

    But both sims can and will exist, and I hope for the best for both of them. But it's looking like SimRail will be my go to.
     
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  4. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

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    Forgot it existed until today :)
     
  5. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

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    Like in real life.

    Again real life.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2021
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  6. Oli R C

    Oli R C Member

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    Not always. I literally said 'when there's no reason for it', which you included in my quote.

    [edit by Protagonist - let's not turn this into an argument]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2021
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  7. Oli R C

    Oli R C Member

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    And don't forget to collect your real life bonus points. :D
     
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  8. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Active Member

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    To be fair there are markers for where to stop on Polish stations, the W4 boards which you can see represented in Simrail. They're a guide created more for full consists rather than little commuter units like the Elf, but they are there. Just, the sim doesn't award you arbitrary points based on how far from it you are, and that's fine.
     
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  9. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Active Member

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    Because this is how it's done in the train itself, you know - in real life!
     
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  10. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    Please remember that everyone is entitled to their opinion. If this thread is going to stay open you should remember to argue against the opinion, not the person making it. I've edited one post likely to start an argument, let's not having any more.
     
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  11. Oli R C

    Oli R C Member

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    Yes, indeed. But those markers are generally at each end of the platform. As you say, the little Elf has quite a margin on the huge platforms with its 2 car consist. It's this particular case I'm talking about. When we get bigger trains, the margin will reduce. But you clarify my point regarding the points. :D
     
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  12. Oli R C

    Oli R C Member

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    Well it was going quite well until the trolling started. But sure, edit away...
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  13. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    I agree with much of the points brought up here, with my feelings toward this game being mixed.
    Yeah, sure I guess it's nice that there's another train simulator out there to compete with TSW, but it feels like this keeps being brought up as the main selling point for SimRail. Beyond that, what's there to be excited for in this game? Is it special only because it's different? What's there to convince me to jump ship and play SimRail over TSW? In it's current state, not a whole lot, really.

    If there's one main critique I have for this game, it's the way it's presented. It's the graphics, the UI, the feel of the game. It feels very flat, and dull feeling, when regarding the textures. The models look great from far away, but close up they start to look problematic. The colors feel very washed out, with too much bloom and godrays added for dramatic effect. I would suggest being able to tweak and adjust these settings to one's likings.

    The sounds and overall physics on the trains do seem and feel pretty good though, it's about what I expect from the real thing. I'm not sure if it makes up for the other areas the game lacks in, but it definitely does still aid in some of the immersion.

    However as it stands, the way I perceive SimRail is that it's made to be all shiny and say "look at me!" instead of being a true mainstay in train simulation, something that'll truly compete with TSW. Sure, driving Polish trains and other locos across Eastern Europe is nice, but unless they start developing content for 'The Big Three' (U.S. UK, & Germany), I don't think SimRail will maintain much of the market share. They're tackling a small niche within another small niche.
    I hope that this game is only in it's very very very early stages of development, and that there is plenty of more content to support this game for years to come, but as it stands, the first impressions for SimRail certainly feels a bit lackluster.
     
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  14. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    I had all the settings maxed out on the demo and the only gripe I had with it was the AA didn't seem to do much worth noting.
    It is a different sim and it has different elements I like I have to say for me the simplicity of the safety system press space bar no drama continue enjoying the drive.
    Sounds are better than TSW but that was never going to be a hard challenge was it.
     
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  15. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Ultimately - multiplayer and dispatcher mode.
    It is difficult to assess these elements because they are not present in the demo version.

    I wonder if that's enough - Run8 (which I love) has a multiplayer mode, but it's not a very popular game.
    In the case of SimRail, the situation can be interesting due to the clear presence of passenger services.

    I drove a few times and got really hooked.
    The technical condition (compared to TSW) shows how much work DTG has put into its product over the years. BR o7
     
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  16. Jonne1184

    Jonne1184 Member

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    Thats really only a difference when compared to the German part of TSW. British trains in TSW work just like that, so I would not make that a difference between the simulators, but the depicted regions.
     
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  17. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    Again big disappointment with SimRail. I have a computer with specs that are greater compared to the recommended system requirements which is on the games steam page. Nevertheless the game cannot be configured to run even close to the medium setting. At the same time TSW2 with better graphics runs perfectly fine on ultra settings.
     
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  18. praxidike.meng

    praxidike.meng Well-Known Member

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    I played the demo of SimRail and am quite impressed. There are definitely some aspects that set it apart from TSW experience. For example, the radio communication with the dispatcher really deepens the immersion factor for me, so I probably enjoyed it the most. Setting up a train (cold start) is something I hope is required every time I start a service in this game. There is a certain satisfaction when I can move a train from a cold start - it means I correctly memorized all start-up procedures and is a realistic depiction of train drivers' operations.
    Driving a train felt good - soundscape of a train, coupled with a sensible driving physics gave a sensation of driving a heavy vehicle which is something that TSW sometimes fails to achieve.
    Biggest complaint I have so far is related to graphics. The game is very bright and the AA doesn't seem to function. The distant scenery seems low-res and in general quite poor. That is not the case with immediate track scenery however - stations are beautiful, the catenary is very detailed and the track itself is superbly presented.
    That's about all I have to say about SimRail at this point. It definitely looks promising and could become a (healthy) competitor with TSW, although I believe both of the games' producers can learn something new from each other.
     
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  19. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    The cold start every time isn't realistic if a driver has come off his stint and another takes over, engines in the case of DMU's are still going to be running.
    I certainly think it will be a decent competitor even if it isn't as spangly graphics wise compared to TSW, sounds are better real-time dynamic weather, superior skydome, etc, plus I'm pretty sure they will optimise the game before launch, for me I for one am looking forward to exploring Poland.
     
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  20. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Active Member

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    I think there are at most 30 DMUs of any model in Poland, all up near the German border, so it won't be a problem in that case! Certainly the areas initially touched by Railsim are all electrified.
     
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  21. orb

    orb Member

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    I quite like it.

    I think I like behaviour of people waiting on platform the most. I love how they follow the train when you are approaching slowly to stop, first walk towards you to back of the platform and then the other way round when you pass them (I acted this way personally in real life when it seemed the train I'm waiting for will stop short). I somehow like the look of their models better than those in TSW2.

    The train control, well, as it's also with different new locos/trains in TS/TSW it needs to be learned first and a little trained to get used to. However, with quite different and not changeable yet keyboard bindings, I'm worried that after playing the demo for 6 hours now, I be sounding horn instead of acknowledging AWS/Sifa for some time when I'll return to playing TSW2.

    No demand for stopping at the exact marker but anywhere to fit in the platform without penalty feels nice. With such short EMU I can just target the place where the most of passengers are standing. However in the demo there are no visible other penalties, like for overspeeding - just colour, so who knows, it may change later. Cruise control's power preset to 100% and emergency brake are useful for getting the 2nd Steam achievement in the demo if you don't want to overspeed.

    Graphically, I needed to play on something around medium settings to get a similar performance as on the highest with additional enhancing ini tweaks in TSW2, but my very old computer and only a few years younger graphics card are rather to blame.

    I'll be definitely getting it, mostly because I've been missing Polish routes in TS/TSW, and available other free simulators based in Poland I tried looked quite outdated (now I'll only need something having routes based in Australia).
     
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  22. stijn.claessens

    stijn.claessens Active Member

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    I had a strange bug yesterday where my train would always go backwards with the reverser in forwards position. When i finaly got my train to move forward i got a red light and couldn't talk to the dispatcher anymore. The next light however was still green.
     
  23. Oystein

    Oystein Active Member

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    A random button? What makes you think it is random?

    And no, controls are not a mess. You just need to learn how to use them.
     
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  24. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Active Member

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    You're braver than me for engaging with such empty negativity - I was curious which controls don't work, really - even the cruise control works, albeit without showing you how. That's precisely why I'm excited by the demo - everything that was a bit broken still related more to things like aesthetics, interface or so on, nothing that was essential to the correct function.
     
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  25. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    I had a short run on the demo and so far I'm liking it very much. No performance problems on my PC with SimRail, while TSW stutters quite often...
     
  26. Oystein

    Oystein Active Member

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    The more I play the more I like it. Also impressed by the physics, especially for brakes and traction. Looking forward to the Traxx and performance update that comes later this month.

    From SimRail devs yesterday: "We have collected your opinions and suggestions and we are working on them intensively. From the good news, we managed to find a bottleneck which, after fixing it in the next update, will increase the FPS by about 15-20 depending on the hardware configuration."
     
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  27. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    Communication from SimRail at the moment is horrible
     
  28. Jonne1184

    Jonne1184 Member

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    Well there basically is none. Or at least I would not know where?!
     
  29. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    I've heard that they mostly put updates on Facebook. No good to me, I haven't had a Facebook account for about 8 years now.

    They do also put screenshots on Discord, rarely. It's a bit of a mess there though, it's a PlayWay discord so it has all of their games, not just SimRail. I'll also warn you that the SimRail channel there has a very negative attitude towards anything DTG/TS/TSW related.
     
  30. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Some of the comments there involve TSW 2 TS 22 being uninstalled because they see this better than DTG.DTG will have an advantage over this it's consoles.
     
  31. aglomarsale

    aglomarsale Well-Known Member

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    I got t he demo version
     
  32. vyncwr

    vyncwr Member

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    I really liked the demo, to be honest, I didn't expect anything good from unity engine, but demo prove me wrong. I like the mirrors working. The scenery is far behind TSW though.
     
  33. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Try their diesel counterpart DB BR633 made by PESA fit for Main Spessart Bahn Aschaffenburg Port area. Proper Sticker for them has RMV Regio Bayern. PZB is equipped on them instead of SHP Which simrail focuses on.
     
  34. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    So, I've tried the demo and while it has potential, and has some things that are really nice, they still have lots of work to do.

    Sadly, the first big negative came immediately after loading into the game - it is one of those games that assume every usb controler is a gamepad, so I had to unplug my simrig, for the menu to stop scrolling uncontrollably. I expect this from lousy console ports, not from a "sim" game. The menu itself looks nice and I much prefer this kind of simple, easy to read, menus to what we have in TSW.

    The graphics and performance are...meh so far. Considering that the demo takes part in the middle of nowhere, having 50fps in this kind of enviroment, with keeping the default medium setings, is kinda low. I can easilly push 80fps in such scenes in TSW, with high settings and 120% render size on 1440p.
    The graphic detail itself is ok, nothing spectacular, but not bad. But the visibility is terrible, the whole world looks like there is an invisible abbys 500m from the player, where the world just...dissapears. Yes, there is menu option of draw distance...but considering the current performance, I did not increased it. And even with it set to the default values, the world shouldn't just dissapear, but rather fall down to some low-poly lod model, as we have in TSW. Similary, the AA seems to be completely broken.
    The physics feel great, the train has weight, which you can clearly feel. I like the cold start-up procedure, but I hope that in the full game I will not be required to do it every time (as it is not very realistic). The great physical feel of the train is accompanied by great sound of both the motors and the rails... The simple addition of dispatcher "ok to proceed" radio call ads so much to immersion. So does the "on request" door openning, and dynamic stop time length. And hey, I can see the whole train timetable, not just 2 stops, in a small window... who would have guessed what using a smaller font can bring you....

    Sadly, the experience is let dow by very awkward controls. I don't mind different control schemes... it is just that the feedback of in what notch I'm actually is basically non-existand when using the keyboard, and is also super sluggish. And when using the mouse it is super sensitive and very easy to i.e. trigger the emergency brake... Also, why is the whole game in imperial units? I'm in Poland, driving a Polish train... let me see the speeds and distances in metric.

    So, in summary... For me, to be considering buying the title for full price, they really need to sort the controls, to have better feedback, and improve performance and long distance rendering.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2021
  35. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Active Member

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    The demo itself states that full controller support will come with the full release, so that's your first concern dealt with. Not sure why it's in imperial unless your computer is set to those as default - for me it's all in metric.

    I'll also just say it's not exactly the middle of nowhere - it's a major interchange between north/south and east/west lines, and centred on one of the busiest freight regions of the country, so there will be quite a lot happening around Dąbrowa in the full game I imagine. Some fair points generally though!
     
  36. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully yes. My region is Slovakia and regional settings are set on English (World), so speeds are in Kph, but distances are in feets. But I imagine this should be simple to add into the options. it is just annoying right now, as it is difficult to judge braking distances.

    I meant scenery wise, and only related to performance (I prefer country-side rides ;) ), the demo doesn't start in a big hub in the middle of city, like. i.e. the Munich Main Station. Getting 50fps on a two rail track surrounded by trees, without any AI traffic in sight, is not good performance.

    I hope they will update demo as they will make improvements, as it would be shame to keep it as a demonstration, when the full game would have most of the issues fixed.
     
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  37. Oystein

    Oystein Active Member

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    USERNAME\AppData\LocalLow\SimKol\SimRail
    Open settings.conf, change Metric G_MetricSystem=False to Metric G_MetricSystem=True

    Other than that, it is still work in progress and more functions like better support for controls will be implemented after the release of the full game. Many of the topics have been talked about in their live stream and things will be improved such as draw distance, AA and performance.

    There will be an update to the demo soon.
     
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  38. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Active Member

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    Ah! They said they've identified a processing bottleneck that will give a 15-20fps boost. How accurate that is I can't say but they've finally realised it's important to update the public at least.
     
  39. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, I will try that :)
     
  40. SaMa1

    SaMa1 Active Member

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    From the perspective of prototypical operation this game has one big feature that TSW hasn't: Mirrors. When you are running late and want to catch up, the fixed waiting times are very annoying. Here in real life the driver would look from the mirror and immediately depart when there are no more passengers approaching the train.
     
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  41. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Good point the only way to do that in TSW2 is 8 cam on both sides of the train. in the case of Long Island Railroad DLC Jamaica Sutphin Boulevard Archer JFK Airport Long Island Railroad platforms some of the services there require the use of Both doors therefore you must use 8 camera instead of a Mirror. That would cause some of the community to switch to Simrail for that reason.
     
  42. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    So I played it little more and the driving and train feel is solid. It is obvious that these guys have experience creating professional train sims.

    Another area where it is, sadly, obvious is scenery. The railway models (station buildings, catenary, signs...) are quite good, but the trackside scenery is just terrible. I don't feel like I'm in poland. Only when searching for the stations on google maps I realized that I was driving through suburbs of Katowice. The buildings model are extremely basic cubes with very flat one color texture. They're more like some modern cubic architecture, and not anything like you would experience in that region.
    It cannot be compared with DTGs routes, like Dresden Route. They are in totally different league with that. Yes, DTGs trackside models are also low-poly (understandably), but they atleast add feature to them, like balconies, and use things like brick textures, and try to mix them up a little so it doesn't feel so generic and featureless.

    And this, I'm pretty certain,will not change.. as they would have to go through the whole route again and redo the scenery. And yes, people might say that driving is more important. Yes driving is important, but for me scenery is also very important. I was looking forward to driving through the Polish countrysides, because it would be the closest I can get right now to driving my country - Slovakia. As the scenery in Poland and Slovakia is vey similar.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
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  43. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Thoughts after the demo is that this is a solid sim with the work to do before full release. Really demo is a bit of a misnomer as it's more serving the purpose of a beta, as a demo is usually out at the same time or barely before the full game as a way of a "try before you buy", however the full sim is still likely a month away.

    Anyway, given the budget I expected there to be areas lacking, just as TSW has, and that's true.

    I found the operation of the train to be a bit fiddly from a keyboard control standpoint, but then again I found that to be the case when I first picked up TS20xx. I thought the train models were very well done, nearly on par with TSW, while the actual functionality within the train was pretty far superior with working (and mandatory) radio interactions, fully functional screens, etc. Pretty much everything is clickable and if possible, does it what's supposed to.

    Scenery was a mixed bag. I liked the vegetation they used and the trees that respond to wind speed and direction. Unnecessary but absolutely a nice touch. I have to disagree with another member who said they didn't feel like they were in Poland. From a vegetation and landscape perspective, I thought it was spot on. I lived in the suburbs of Warsaw and then Warsaw itself for 3 years and have been all over the country many times as my wife is Polish from near Wroclaw. As I'd expect from a Polish company, they nailed the Polishness of the ambiance and scenery. I do agree that architectural detail can be quite iffy. I'd put it on par with some of the poorer TSW routes like Faversham which I've always been critical of.

    One more negative was the general lack of licensing. While the train itself is spot on accurate, they did not license the use of its name and did not license with PKP (the Polish train company) or any of the regional train companies, at least not yet, so that is a bit sad, though the splash screen does suggest they have a license in place with PKP Cargo.

    All that said, I expect this to be a purchase when it comes out and hope that the devs continue to support and expand it. I think it fills a pretty massive gaping hole in DTG's train empire which is generally anything outside of the UK, US, and Germany/Aus/Swiss. As someone who rode Polish trains everyday I'm pretty pumped and It will serve as a fun, and very different supplement to TS20XX and TSW2 for me.

    While this does NOT need to be a direct comparison to TSW as they cover completely different areas of the world in their scope and IMO for sim rail fans should be considered a supplement, rather can replacement or competition to DTGs offering my impressions of a comparison are as of today anyway:

    Visuals-
    Weather: SimRail
    Landscape/Natural Scenery: SimRail
    Manmade/Architecture: TSW2
    Lighting/Shadows: Draw

    Trains-
    Modelling: TSW2
    Functionality: SimRail
    Accuracy: TSW2 (giving them the edge due to lack of licensing)

    Gameplay-
    Controls: TSW2
    Features/Modes: INCOMPLETE (wait on full SimRail release)

    EDIT: I realize there have been reports of poor performance. Admittedly I'm running a beastly system with an RTX3080, but I found it to be smooth with no issues, and less skipping and stuttering than TSW2.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
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  44. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Active Member

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    As it happens I rode past the starting station in this demo on Monday, I can confirm the station and surrounding trees are pretty spot on. That one repeating tree, I'm afraid, is 80% of the Polish countryside - we're not a beautiful place!
     
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  45. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    See, I'm split on this. I don't know if I really want them to go head to head with TSW2 and start developing US, UK, and DE routes. Don't we have enough of those coming? I don't know if I need SimRail's take on the northeast corridor and the ICE3. I might like them to focus on a lot of the areas that DTG has been pretty open about having little to no interest in making content for. Poland, Czechia, Italy, The Netherlands, non-high speed in France, etc. I fully understand that a dyed-in-the-wool UK railfan who only cared about BR blue era stuff isn't going to care about SimRail, but...so what? There are multiple sims out there that have covered that subject matter many times. I'm not sure SimRail needs to try and go toe to toe with DTG in their own backyard. The world is a big place.
     
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  46. vyncwr

    vyncwr Member

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    To be honest I don't think simrail was to be shihney. It's far from it. It's OK but it's obvious the graphic wasn't the first.. Also I'm bored of de uk us routes. I'm happy that it's something totally different. I really hope it's gonna focus on eastern europe..
     
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  47. orb

    orb Member

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    According to this Facebook post (containing 26 new screenshots) the 2nd version of SimRail's demo is coming soon:

    https://www.facebook.com/simrail2021/posts/851326978775017

    From the description, I understand it will be released as a separate free Steam store entry called "SimRail 2021 Prologue", which will act as the demo for the game, and not as assigned directly to the game's Steam app demo which is downloadable with the "Demo" button on the store page of the full game (i.e. you will be still able to add it to your Steam library and download it even after you purchase the full version of the game - from my experience demo button disappears from the store pages of the games once the games have been purchased).
     
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  48. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    This would be fine otherwise, but like I've mentioned previously, this would mean that SimRail would only really attract a very small and niche market. And that's the problem if this game keeps getting touted as a competitor to TSW by many people (it feels like this gets brought up in every video I see about the game)...the reality is, the two games are very likely to not compete at all. And if they're not going to compete, then what's going to motivate and push both companies to improve their games?

    I think it's very likely that the hype for this game will go away soon and it'll live its life much like Zusi or Run8: games that are great in the areas they represent, but are niche and only have a small share of what's already a small simulation market.

    There needs to be improvements made to Simrails performance, it's graphical fidelity and presentation, and more content in the form of locos and routes. All of which are things that, as of right now, it lacks in.
     
  49. emdzej

    emdzej Member

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    "In the full version of the game, we will be able to drive vehicles such as: EU07, ET43, Traxx, EN96, ED250 (Pendolino) and others (including various types of freight and passenger cars). It is worth emphasizing that the simulator will offer a licensed rolling stock of PKP CARGO, which was the first to express the will to cooperate in the production, giving both legal consent to use the mark as well as substantive advice."

    Source: SimRail 2021 - The Railway Simulator - Wszystko na temat branży kolejowej: PKP, Intercity, przewozy regionalne, koleje mazowieckie, rozkłady jazdy PKP, Kolej (rynek-kolejowy.pl)
     
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  50. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Active Member

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    Not sure how likely full licensing would be, given the local railways are run by regional governments who are not the best at things like marketing. Also clear that PKP Cargo are far ahead of the passenger company in this regard.
     

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