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Simrail 2021 Vs Tsw2

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by arapajoe3, Oct 13, 2020.

  1. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    I like TSW2, it looks better than TS classic hands down, however TS classic is a better experience hands down.

    I am looking forward to Simrails offering and if I judge it to be better I can see where my custom will go in future, particularly if the sounds are better.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2021
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  2. Alexandreo3

    Alexandreo3 Active Member

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    The fact that their steam page directly advertieses 2 other games currently in development by them doesnt get my hopes up too high.
    Personally I dont expect much from this but I still put it on my wishlist to keep an eye on it.
    Maybe I get proven wrong and they deliver on their promises
     
  3. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Time will tell.
     
  4. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    I'm mostly excited because they are darn near close to 1:1 representation (within reason) of actual Polish routes. I lived in Warsaw for 3 years and had to take the train every weekday to work out in the suburbs. I hated those journeys then, but I miss them now. Looking forward to it!
     
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  5. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    As long as it isn't a tech fest to drive anything then I will defo be happy!
     
  6. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't sell them TOO short. The Publisher/Dev is PlayWay Sa. who are the 2nd largest game dev in Poland after CD Projekt Red of Witcher and Cyberpunk fame. They've published a ton of games of varying quality, including a number that had a moment in the sun on Steam like House Flipper, Car Mechanic Simulator, Thief Simulator, etc which are all quite popular. I would certainly argue that doing a train sim justice would be among, if not THE largest project they've done, but they have been around the block more than a few times.

    https://playway.com/
     
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  7. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    Yes I think I may have already said this before on this thread but as a fan of Car Mechanic Simulator, Thief Simulator and House Flipper I wouldn't expect this Simrail to appeal to anything other than a casual audience. That is what those games are like, you won't learn how a car works or how to do painting and decorating, but you can have fun pretending.
     
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  8. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    And Dovetail also make an arcadey fishing game, so...companies can multi-task. We'll see how this turns out. It's equally foolish IMO to dismiss the in production sim as being not simmy enough as it is to blindly assume that it's going to be amazing.
     
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  9. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Car mechanic sim was quite fun for a while, it could have been more in depth to be honest. I would have liked there to have been a bit more of a driving element in it, plus some Austin Allegros!

    I suspect Simrail will be a totally different kettle of fish. The screenshots look decent.
     
  10. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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    PlayWay is just distributor, they dont really work on Sim Rail. Sim Rail is made by Poland studio SimKol (https://www.simkol.pl/ ), and they are very experienced with train simulators.
    SimBus is made by different team and is not affecting SimRail 2021. And than there is a list which is of features which are already implemented into the game:

    Many of your suggestions have already been implemented, such as:
    -realistic control and starting the vehicle,
    -multiplayer,
    -realistic railway signaling
    -variable weather,
    -realistic routes,
    -timetable,
    -a system of penalties and rewards
    - RailDriver and TrackIR compatible

    So for me this sim look very promising and im looking forward to buy it.
     
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  11. 59321747

    59321747 Active Member

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    It is impossible to make a correct argument before the game is officially reviewed. Judging from the published pictures, the game is very powerful.
     
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  12. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Edited by DTG Natster - Removed this link as it a scam download and I don't want anyone to accidently install anything nasty.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 3, 2021
  13. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    All they're offering you is a virus or bitcoin miner to slow down your PC. Do not download. The game is not yet available and has no release date.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
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  14. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    It’s clearly a scam. I think it’s best to delete that post in case other members fall for it accidentally.

    Or edit it and make it clear it’s a scam.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 4, 2021
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  15. Ravi

    Ravi Active Member

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    I have had mixed experiences with Playway games. But I am looking forward to this just for the diversity of the routes it will bring.
     
  16. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely. I don't care personally whether or not this ends up as real competition to TSW at all. I'm just excited for Polish routes which DTG would never in a million years even consider making for any of their sims.
     
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  17. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    Given a million years, we'd definitely include Poland.
     
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  18. pablomikel.izaguirre.m

    pablomikel.izaguirre.m Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Poland will exist in a million years...
     
  19. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Touche
     
  20. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    That's in interesting promise. Unfortunately it's extremely unlikely anyone of us still being alive at that time. But it's great news for future generations of train simmers :P
     
  21. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I like the look of the trees on the line, car on the track, these things would make tsw more interesting, doesn’t need to be overdone but interesting.
    Graphics look very intriguing too
     
  22. KiwiLE

    KiwiLE Well-Known Member

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    Playway isn't making the sim, they are just the distributor.
    It is being coded by SimKol which is a train sim company.
     
  23. jevan-dean

    jevan-dean Active Member

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    SimRail won't come to consoles, so DTG will have that market, but they could end up loosing a lot of there PC community if they deliver on what everyone has been wishing for from DTG for the past 4 years with TSW. The fact its already confirmed it has an SDK, real world weather, multiplayer, signalling? This should be very concerning for DTG. If I owned DTG, I would be worried right now. If SimRail does deliver, its DTG's own fault for not implementing our wishes over the last 5 years of TSW.
     
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  24. KiwiLE

    KiwiLE Well-Known Member

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    Not really DTG's own "fault" if they lose PC users as they are committed to making TSW a PC and console system.
    Real computing simulation power is with PC of course, and DTG knows this. But they have made their bed...

    Certainly, competition is a good thing and the list of features promised by SimKol is a good start!
     
  25. JZJ90

    JZJ90 Member

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    As has been mentioned in a few streams, the split between the platforms is pretty much even between PC, PS and Xbox users. So by choosing to make their game accessible to console players they have gained a much larger audience than if they had just focused on PC. If nothing else it means more money for them to put into the development of the game and the ability to create more routes. When I first played CSX heavy haul as a beta I wasn't that impressed, but the core game has improved hugely since then, and that is surely down to the extra revenue they have brought in from console copy sales. It could be why TSW didn't go the direction of FSW?
     
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  26. jevan-dean

    jevan-dean Active Member

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    FSW failed because of their third party policy, meaning the big devs such as PMDG were not interested, which is an instant killer in the aviation genre. They are making the same mistakes they made with FSW in terms of third party. How long can DTG really keep on doing what they are doing with TSW?
     
  27. JZJ90

    JZJ90 Member

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    They seem to be getting more and more third parties producing content, the selection of routes and add ons is increasing at a slow but still quite steady rate, so I think they'll be alright. Given a decade like the ts series they will probably end up with a massive selection of routes in tsw.
     
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  28. KiwiLE

    KiwiLE Well-Known Member

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    Great point jevan-dean, but they must have a good business model for the console sims.
    Train sims are a very niche market, even the pro ones look rubbish graphics wise.

    The problem with train sims is that every inch is on the ground, and has been seen by its audience, or Google Earth!
    MSFS2020 looks amazing, all over the globe, until you start looking at the colour of the ballast, or the concrete bridge on the M25 from 1-metre elevation.
     
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  29. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    While there are quite a few flight simulators around, there don't seem to be a lot of train simulators around. DTG couldn't compete with the other flight simulators, but there seems very little competition in the train simulation market.

    If TSW would fail just like FSW did, it would've happend a while ago already. TSW is doing just fine. Perhaps even more than just fine.
     
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  30. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    I hope so, but that really remains to be seen. I mean, who are the most prolific third party route creators for TS? Justtrains, Rivet, RSSLO, Aerosoft, Thomson Interactive? There's only been routes from one of them, Rivet, announced for TSW. Skyhook is doing a route, but I think they've only done one route before, Livonia. TSG just does rolling stock. Getting RSSLO to do an Austrian route, or Justtrains or Thomson to make something IMO would be pretty big (in an admittedly small niche)
     
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  31. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Third Parties may need to do quite an investment to get started with the new software. Software licenses need to be bought and staff needs to be retrained. I think that's more likely to hold them off rather than the market.

    And apparently both the BR204 and the Isle of Wight were succesfull enough for Rivet to develop their next project. The BR204 and Isle of Wight are pretty small projects, probably just to test the waters, getting familiar with the tools, while keeping investments (and risks) low. The announced Arosabahn is a full project. Rivet wouldn't start this if they didn't believe it'd be a commercial succes.

    Skyhook did more than you may think.
    https://store.steampowered.com/search/?developer=Skyhook Games
    It's good to see them hopping on board. Their TS DLC had decent quality too.

    And doing it quite well, I've been told.

    I once asked RSSLO about them doing TSW stuff, and they said something about needing DTG to do something. I suspect there may be something with licensing to currently keep them from doing TSW stuff. It looked like RSSLO wanted to.
    However, I'm having doubts about the quality of RSSLO products. Their TS DLC doesn't look too amazing TBH.

    I don't know about those two, but if Rivet can make a profit with TSW DLC (I don't know if they're still developing stuff for TS), JustTrains and Thomson could most likely do the same. They just need to invest in software licenses and staff training, and might need to resolve some paperwork with DTG, in order to get started.

    I'm pretty confident TSW player numbers and sales aren't the problem here.
     
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  32. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying TSW isn't or can't do well financially. I was responding directly to the hopeful projection of eventually a large library of routes from 3rd parties. I just pointed out that it is off to a bit of slow start and there are some "heavy hitters" as it were that have yet to dip their toes in.
     
  33. jevan-dean

    jevan-dean Active Member

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    FSW at the time was the best looking flight sim by far. It had volumetric clouds, it had PBR etc.. But no the third party support which is vital in any simulator. Well it did have third party support, if you published it through DTG.. And this is the issue, you won't get any freeware or independent published DLC. AP, Just Trains wont be using TSW until they can self publish.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2021
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  34. jevan-dean

    jevan-dean Active Member

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    They are doing fine right now, yeah. But if a Train Simulator comes along with the communities wishes, will they?
     
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  35. JZJ90

    JZJ90 Member

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    Sam has expressed his wishes to be able to provide some sort of way to allow skilled modders to get access to the editing tools but said there would probably be licences/agreements to sign. I am very much hoping that he is able to pull something off to allow a lot more people to access the tools. I'm not a modder so I will never build a route of my own but I hope that others can. Also by not publicly releasing the tools it will help avoid the issue we see with some other sim's mod sites getting filled up with completely broken rubbish that does not work, and I for one support not having to sift through that stuff to find the good mods!
     
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  36. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. Another advantage is that the dependencies for third party mods can be kept under control. For example, I know there's a few Dutch routes for Train Simulator, but with an extremely long list of all kinds of dependencies to be downloaded first, both free and paid stuff. I never went through this hassle. I hope that whenever whoever makes some Dutch route for TSW, it'll be as easy to install as the official DLC.

    We may see less user created content, but the quality of what we'll get may be higher. Installation might be considerably easier too. I don't mind paying for something that's good and easy to install. It's one of the biggest advantages with Steam, rather than having to manually install and update my games manually.
     
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  37. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    SimRail does look interesting, but me personally would like to see DTG and TSW2 thrive and go from strength to strength. The game is exceptional on many levels, especially visually and will only get better as time goes on. I will be very happy to pay for more DLC providing they keep striving for the best etc, I can forgive initial release minor bugs because they are addressed and fixed most of the time.

    Two areas where I’d like to see the biggest improvements are sounds ( usual critique really ) and more advanced and in depth physics research. Real life GPS recordings, official acceleration and braking graphs for each loco / rolling stock. Don’t get me wrong, it’s already good but room for improvement!!! Also things like diesels having that 1 second delay after throttle being moved and the engine reacting. ( the 2 second engine rev build up for fluid to fill the torque converter of the 2nd gen DMU’s for before moving etc ). It’s this sort of stuff that really counts for most people.
    If they continue to improve these two main areas, I will continue to support them and put my money into the game.
     
  38. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

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    I think that is a very unfair comment, there are plenty of wonderful third party routes out there some a lot better in my opionion than the ones from the licensed (for want of a better word) producers. you will always find substandard work, the army of add on producers for TS2021 most unpaid do a great job for our sim and I for one take my hat off to them, well done.

    Mike.
     
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  39. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Quite, look at the still expanding Wycombe Railway and Joint Line route currently at version 4 on the Steam Sounds Supreme site. Easily payware quality and I would have happily paid more than the normal cost of a route for it.

    That site and many others like Vulcan, ATS etc have some excellent freeware creations many up to payware standard. Partly as they are created in their spare time I guess they have more time but that aside they are giving up their time, energy and talents.
     
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  40. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure they did the Hausach Villingen addon for the Konstanz route.

    Either way, I will be purchasing Simrails offering and judge for myself rather than go on hearsay and supposition.
     
  41. RobSkip

    RobSkip Well-Known Member

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    If Simrail releases with a public SDK, or even just a partner team that replies to emails, they will have a big point over TSW.
     
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  42. jevan-dean

    jevan-dean Active Member

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    SimRail have already replied to me, good start. DTG just don't reply haha. I mean their loss, their loosing out on profits so..
     
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  43. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Nice catch.
     
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  44. Pit

    Pit Member

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    New screenshots, routes Katowice - Warsaw / Sędziszów (Poland).
    SimRail Screen 060221 (10).jpg SimRail Screen 2 060221 (128).jpg SimRail Screen 2 060221 (64).jpg SimRail Screen 2 060221 (26).jpg SimRail Screen 2 060221 (113).jpg
     
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  45. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Another set of great shots
     
  46. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Looking good.
     
  47. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

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    SimRail Screen 2 060221 (67)_autoscaled.jpg Something just feels off about all of these shots. The lighting is just weird and the hard edges on the ballast look quite bad too.
    TSW's environment currently looks better to me so this sim will have to deliver in other aspects to succeed.
    But I do like the attention to custom assets and accuracy.
     
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  48. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

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    I agree about the ballast, it sticks out like a sore thumb on all the screenshots, I think that will all be replaced in the final version.
     
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  49. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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    TSW lightning sucks as well clouds and sky which looks like a wallpaper. Simrail is only in work in progress and has a better sky and lightning than TSW.
     
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  50. Pinguinie

    Pinguinie Member

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    But SimRail offers more features than TSW will ever do. Dovetail is all out for money, always new routes and no new innovative features. And being able to create any timetable or paint trains are not absolutely necessary and what the community expects in terms of new features. So I really hope that SimRail will continue to develop after the release.

    It doesn't do any good, for me, if you keep bringing out new routes and thus building in new bugs, instead of first setting up new features with a very good set of routes. If there are new features, they will take years because you have to install them on every route. And the excuse "you only have a small team" is total nonsense.
    If this team were tied to a new feature, it would be ready in six months. And nobody can tell me that it takes years to install a "ticket inspector". For example, first for the single player. That you can go through with a longer hold time to control this. Very simple feature and a lot more realism.
    Then you could build this feature directly into a possible MP and that's the first step. But instead of working on it, Dovetail is building some new routes and trains with new bugs and zero new features. (For Example: Bus Simulator 18 etc.)

    And as mentioned at the beginning, what is supposed to be in the near future is really not innovative. The design of the trains could have been moved very far back. Or as it always says so beautifully in the live stream: "Is not the highest priority"
    Nobody can see the train without a MP - so: why is an design-feature higher than an ticket, announcment or other priority systems? Nobody know....
     
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