So They're Going To Keep Selling Tsw2020 Dlc For Tsw2?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by TheShotte, Aug 12, 2020.

  1. TheShotte

    TheShotte Well-Known Member

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    Judging by the Deluxe Edition of TSW2, DTG will keep selling TSW2020 DLC once TSW2 comes out. If this is the case, how can they justify not fixing any of the issues with DLCs that exist? I mean, I get not wanting to invest time/money into old DLCs that you are just porting to new game version, but if you're going to keep selling said DLC, how can you not fix the bugs?
     
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  2. Sintbert

    Sintbert Well-Known Member

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    They say'd they would not fix bugs in the TSW1 version of the DLC. They will fix bugs in the TSW 2 versions of the DLCs. The only thing they don't do on TSW2 versions are feature upgrades to TSW2 standards like weather depended adhesion.
     
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  3. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Yes, they will become the "preserved collection" and as of recently are now being included in the upcoming DLC which will be TSW2 DLC. The other thing is that if you buy a DLC which is in that preserved collection you get the license for both the TSW and TSW2 version of that DLC
    What they have confirmed is that they won't be doing any further development of TSW or it's DLC. They WILL be developing DLC for TSW2, including the preserved collection, but they won't be backdating or "rolling back" these fixes into the TSW1 versions
    As an example in the recent Koln Achen stream DTG-P accidentally showed us the loading screen showing existing TSW1 DLC available to drive in service on the TSW2 specific route... Yes It's a WIP, but it means that at some point it is likely to be out and working (something he didn't make great pains to deny on stream)
     
  4. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    They haven't actually confirmed or denied this. I'd hope the bugs would be fixed, but only time will tell.
     
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  5. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    All they said if any fixes do happen, they will only be for the TSW2 preserved collection versions.

    All development has effectively ceased for TSW2020
     
  6. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Has left the building Staff Member

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    You are better assuming that any issues you have with the routes/locos in TSW2020 will still be there in TSW2.
     
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  7. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    :(
     
  8. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Well-Known Member

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    So I wasted my time submitting a ticket for the Cement Circle scenario? It's not getting fixed. When Tees Valley makes the jump to TSW2 is there any possibility it will be fixed then? The same applies to other long standing problems, the Trans Pennine Xbox crashing bug for example. Are these problems here to stay or is conversion to TSW2 going to sort all this stuff out?
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2020
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  9. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    It's quite a sad state of affairs that DTG won't even state they'll try and resolve old bugs.

    I'm presuming you'll be amending the Class 31 store page to state that it only comes with two working scenarios, not the three as promised? If not, then this is definitely a case of false advertising.

    I was under the impression that DTG was trying to actually improve their reputation, but it seems that time and time again they're willing to disappoint their customer base.
     
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  10. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Has left the building Staff Member

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    What we're aiming to do at this point is to avoid being misleading. Until something hits development, treat it as a "no". We won't try and convince you that something is being worked on or investigated unless it is. As of right now, preserved collection is coming to the new game as-is.
     
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  11. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Sorry but I don't recall them saying this at any point. Not once. I believe all preserved content in TSW 2 will be as it is now, be it working, buggy or broken.
     
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  12. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    I’ve followed the bug questions closely and DTG as you rightly point out has never said the bugs will be fixed in the TSW 2 version of the DLC. In my view they certainly ought to be, but who knows.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 12, 2020
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  13. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    There is always a chance that TSW2020 content might have more bugs in TSW2 as the work done to make it compatible with the new system, or the new system itself, might introduce or uncover more bugs. I’d be very surprised if everything gets through in exactly the same state as it currently is in TSW2020. Now there’s a cheery thought for you all. I think some sort of bug fixing will be required once the preserved collection is complete. How much gets fixed is anybody’s guess at the moment.
     
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  14. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Good point.
     
  15. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Fingers crossed that all goes well.
     
  16. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Keep expectations low, avoid disappointment!
     
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  17. jeanmarc094

    jeanmarc094 Well-Known Member

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    you right they never said that. they said no further work will be done on tsw 2020 content
     
  18. Stockton Rails

    Stockton Rails Well-Known Member

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    I’m sorry, and with all due respect, this answer simply isn’t good enough for me. Is there, or is there not, any interest by DTG in resolving any of the standing issues with some of the current 2020 routes once they get migrated over to TSW 2? I’m not asking about exactly *when* this will happen, just whether DTG has any interest whatsoever in resolving some of these issues- at some point, or ever- after they’ve been ported over to TSW 2.

    If not, and DTG really expects players to continue to live with these route issues- without DTG taking any ownership of them- then you guys can count me out in terms of purchasing TSW 2 immediately (if at all). Why should I invest in another core game (granted, with plenty of nice new features), just to have the same warts with my migrated routes that I have now. That notion seems kind of half-baked to me- and it also makes me worried about the support players will receive on any issues they might encounter with TSW 2.

    I appreciate everything you’ve done for the player community so far, and I know you don’t set policy... but please try and get some solid info for this community on what DTG’s real intentions are on supporting these legacy routes moving forward.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
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  19. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Problem is that others will. You may have patience. This forum is proof positive that others will go above and beyond to make people's lives a misery until "their concerns are addressed" (read "until I get what I want")
     
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  20. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Has left the building Staff Member

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    While the answers to questions like this that I give you may be blunt and pretty disappointing that does not mean that your feedback is falling on deaf ears. If you folks are annoyed, aggrieved, upset, I represent it inside the company - that's why I'm here.

    As much as I want to give my own opinion on each of these topics it would be a meaningless gesture to do so. I'm just trying to present what is factual at any given moment so that you can make an educated decision on whether something is acceptable to you or not.

    There will be more on topics like this next week.
     
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  21. Sintbert

    Sintbert Well-Known Member

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    I might have worded it wrong, i mean they fix breaking bugs to keep it in working order as long as the DLC is sold. As for anything else, they fix what they want and by far not everything. For TSW 1 thats no longer the case, if something breaks its dead.
     
  22. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    I'll like to know why new cab signalling and train protection system (LZB) will working only on ICE 3 and not on *new* BR 442 Talent-2. So, according with last DTG Live stream and on my personal research all our German preserved collection, and also the *new* Talent-2, across the new German route(s) of TSW2 will working without the LZB "feature". This authentic and exquisite
    train protection system (LZB) on real railway work with all (or almost all) trains (e.g. 422, 425, 442, 143, 146, 155, 182, 185) and not only on ICE and/or above the 160kmh/h. So the "lack" its not only related to preserved collection but also about new collection (BR 442 DB Talent-2). :(



    UPDATE

    According with Maik Goltz BR 442 DB Talent-2 do NOT equip LZB but what about the other trains?
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
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  23. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It’s sad that we have to set our expectations so low thanks to DTG overpromising and underdelivering in the past.

    DTG are the only company I know to say this. It doesn’t give me much confidence for them at all.
     
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  24. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    Yeh....honestly I do not know how to feel about this new "blunt truth" approach.

    On one hand it's nice to have the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth but on the other hand all these low expectations being set now are a direct result of how things were handled in the past.

    This may sound strange but I used to love being hyped for things even if they never materialised....but now it's like 'expect nothing but if something cool happens it's a bonus'
     
  25. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It’s nice on one hand to be surprised at what they’ve produced and include things which weren’t mentioned beforehand but on the other hand this ‘low expectations’ approach has made me loose a lot of interest in TSW 2.

    When new routes or DLC is announced, I honestly don’t know whether to be excited or disappointed for it.
     
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  26. TheShotte

    TheShotte Well-Known Member

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    Right, from what I understand gathered from the Q&A sessions, Preserved Collection DLC will *not* have any bug fixes when it's ported to TSW2. I fully understand that, and also development on TSW2020 is over, I get it. To reiterate - my question was - if they plan on selling TSW2020 DLC for TSW2 (for owners of the DLC for TSW2020, that will be Preserved Collection, but for new buyers, it will be new DLC), how can they justify NOT fixing any of the outstanding issues with said DLC? I mean, they will make more money on it since they're now gonna sell it as TSW2 DLC (whether they label it as "Preserved Collection" or not is irrelevant). To me, it's blatantly saying "Yeah, we know the DLCs have issues, but we will port them over to TSW2 and keep selling it even though it's outright bugged and we know of those bugs yet we simply will not do anything to fix them (insert face slap here)".
     
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  27. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    They never said they will not fix issues outright, as I said earlier they said if there are any updates, they will only be for the TSW2 version. (This was a quote from Matt in Q&A #1).

    Sam was just telling us to assume there won't be any as it fits into DTG's new modus operandi of not promising anything unless it is announced
     
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  28. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    They have said previously on these forums that there will be no further development of TSW2020. They have also clarified that bug fixes are classed as development.

    There is also this on the Steam store page for TSW2:ECW

    Please note: Train Sim World® 2 is required, as a separate purchase, in order to utilise this content. As this is part of the Preserved Collection, features remain as they were in the original release.

    Keep expectations low, avoid disappointment.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2020
  29. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    Even though a new buyer might consider it new, the TSW2020 DLC is not new.

    I suspect DTG's attention will be devoted to the TSW2 base game, and its future DLC.

    (If they do have time to work on old DLC, I'd hope the priority would be to add NEC DLC to the preserved collection.)
     
  30. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Preserved collection DLC in TSW2 are clones from TSW20202 DLC, adapted to be playable in TSW2. From this moment these DLC are completely unrelated to TWS2020, except for their history. As far as I understood, TSW2020 is frozen. So no bug fixes, no new stuff, nothing. For these TSW2 clones, labelled Preserved collection Dtg may or may not do any development. I am not sure what the policy will be, but for now nothing is announced, so do not expect anything. If you like these preserved collection DLC, you may want to buy them, otherwise leave them alone. Your buying decision and bug reports here are the only vote you have to use. I really wish there to be a know issue list and a clear policy from Dtg how to deal with bugs. More transparency is needed here, but give it some time. I already see a lot of improvements and more clarity on what we may expect and what not. We have influence as fan community, but it should still be more transparent, especially for this that will not happen.
     
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  31. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    However, for those of us who have already purchased TSW content also expect some bugs to be fixed. Especially the major ones.
     
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  32. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    DTG definitely need to share a known issues bug list and whether they are working on a fix. This will show they are acknowledging bug reports an actively doing something about them (where appropriate). I think there is a lot of ill feeling around existing bugs and I think this approach would help players understand what’s what. Maybe it’ll be part of the road map. We’ll have to wait and see on Tuesday.
     
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  33. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Their bug tracking system has the list, but they have disabled sharing the status of each report.
     
  34. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Better yet, drop all expectations and speculations (both negative and positive) and just wait for TSW2 to make its debut on 8/20. Those unable to follow this simple suggestion should stock up on antacids before posting.
     
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  35. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    It's a little sad when the advice is to not have positive expectations...
     
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  36. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Actually, that's called "pragmatism" and is a well known life policy which can negate depression and several other mental and emotional issues. Expectation (along with assumption, presumption and entitlement) generally leads to a negative outcome
     
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  37. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    I'm quite happy with my approach to life, and certainly wouldn't describe myself as being depressed or having emotional issues. Having expectations is an important thing in life. If no one had any expectations, then the quality of everything in life would be much reduced.

    I've never known a product be sold that doesn't try and encourage high expectations and try and deliver them.

    "Buy the latest Call of Duty. What you see here is nearly the final product. Assume any bugs will remain."

    I think TSW has gone from one extreme to the other. In the past it was high expectations and promises that were impossible to keep. Now it's low expectation and what seems like low outcomes from it. There's a middle line. Promise achievable stuff like "we're working on making the map function like a map", and deliver these items. Say "we are trying to improve and fix the bugs etc", as opposed to the negativity that DTG are currently saying.
     
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  38. Trooper117

    Trooper117 Active Member

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    I was hoping to get some really positive and uplifting forum vibes today, seeing as it's nearly time for the launch... but I might just stick my head in a bucket of sand instead... ;)
     
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  39. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Turn this on it's head
    Have you ever known a software house to say "Yes, we're going to give you multiplayer, an editor, the ability to create and share anythign you want in the next gen best of everything" and then five years later have NONE of what they've said they would have?
    I can think of a few, but none of them exist any more
    Bar one...

    The point of expectation is if it's based on reality fine, if it's based on some whimsical notion of "what you want rather than what's proven" that can lead to trouble. Ask my sisters ex husband. Paid 5 grand for a boob job because "she was unhappy" and then she ran off another guy
     
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  40. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    However, I'd suggest that a few bug fixes to TSW2020 / TSW2 is a realistic ask. To be honest, it's not something that should even have to be asked, as any company that has any pride in their work should strive to fix issues (and we're talking game breaking and immersion breaking bugs here, as opposed to inaccuracies etc).
     
  41. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    if people believe in high expectations ect then i would recommend not to invest in star citizen
     
  42. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I doubt you were thinking of bug fixes when you made the comment
     
  43. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Given that's what I mentioned in a previous post in this thread, it's exactly what I'm on about. I've never been one to bang on about multiplayer etc, all I care about is a working product for my money. Something that shouldn't be a huge ask.
     
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  44. DonnyDave

    DonnyDave Active Member

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    any fixes that need doing will more than likely be done when they run out of routes and other dlc's to sell which will probably happen when they make a user friendly route building tool
     
  45. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    They've already put in place a team to fix the preserved collection once they're all ported over, so now they're all (or mostly) ported this team can get going on fixing the (numerous) issues. All discussed on the roadmap streams
     
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