1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

[solved]how To Know What Type Of Brakes Air Or Vacuum On The Freight Cars ?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by VION, Nov 5, 2019.

  1. VION

    VION Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    84
    Hello,
    When I couple some freight cars to a loco, I never know if they are air or vacumm brakes fitted.

    Is there a way by some plate board on the freight car body to indicate which type of brake the wagon is fitted ?
    Or does this feature is mentionned on the manual for each freight cars provided as DLC ?
    i.e. on a consist with several Postal Mail / News paper I never know if the wagons are air or vacuum brakes fitted althought they are similar to coaches wagons so I'm thinking they are considered like air passengers brake fitted but I could be wrong.
    Is there a general rule to know what type of freight wagon are only with vacuum and others with air brakes fitted please ?
     
  2. Dougal

    Dougal Member

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2019
    Messages:
    47
    Likes Received:
    27
    Hi, run a service for vans, carriages and freight check the switch in the cab as the switch requires setting before connecting any rolling stock.
     
  3. VION

    VION Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    84
    Yeah I know to do the switching thing to match the hauled carriage but how to know before switching to match the type of brakes how to know what is it the right one. If I walk around the carriages on the type coaches I read at the end of the body carriage it is both vacuum and air brakes capable but on others freigth carriage like i.e. tank carriage or vans any plate board indicate what type of brakes for this freight carriage so I never know what type is the right type of brakes supported by these carriage. How to know what type of brakes the freight carriage are using ?
    As you are explaining if I understand well the automatic recognition of type of brake used is only done by switching the switch brake in cab and that done the right type of carriage braking system ? I Don't understand well this process. Sorry. For me before setup the switch brake in loco cab I believe I do know what type of brakes my freight carriage are using before setup the in cab brake switch.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
  4. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes Received:
    2,496
    One some vehicles, it is written whether they are air or vacuum braked. But yeah, I've been wondering that as well.
     
  5. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2018
    Messages:
    1,698
    Likes Received:
    1,997
    I asked Matt this very thing some weeks ago.
    Have a look at the wagon/truck and if I understand correctly, anything ending in A indicates air brake, such as HEA for example
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 6
    • Like Like x 1
  6. VION

    VION Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    84
    Aah ! good to know. I wasn't aware of this tip. And contrario when it is not ended by a A letter does it significate we can consider it is vacuum braked ?
    And at what body plate or board must we to look at to get this info please ? What is the plate indicating this thing with a A letter at the end please ?
    May be I have to learn how the wagon carriage are numbered in UK to get the necessary info.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
  7. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    630
    You can also tell by the pipes on the buffer beam. Vacuum pipes are ribbed (for your pleasure) and rather ironically, don't have cocks.
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  8. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Messages:
    533
    Likes Received:
    1,048
    I've always gone by the hoses on the ends and is often quite easy to spot when you know what each looks like. Typically, air brakes work off high pressure, and the hoses at the ends of rolling stock are of a smaller diameter than vacuum, which are lower pressure with the hoses being a larger diameter.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Best, Steve
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
    • Like Like x 5
    • Helpful Helpful x 4
  9. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes Received:
    2,496
    The type of wagon is mostly written fairly large on the vehicles:
    HEA Redcar British Steel 04b.jpg Van Huddersfield 01b.jpg 20191104181855_1b.jpg

    BTW doesn't the S in TSO stand for Standard (aka second) class? It's a 1st class car, and one with a corridor, not open as in O ;)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    630
    The three letter TOPS code for a vacuum braked wagon would end in V, such as HDV but the van on NTP doesn't have a proper TOPS code.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  11. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    630
    TSO stands for Tourist Second Open. First class with corridor is FK.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. VION

    VION Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    84
    Thanks for the tips. I will take a look deeply next time I play with freight cars. Thank you very much for the easy way to recognize whatever type of freight cars brakes.
     
  13. VION

    VION Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    84
    Yes that I have already rod somewhere like BSLO Brake Second Lavatory Open and TSO Trailer second Open etc...
     
  14. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes Received:
    2,496
  15. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2019
    Messages:
    539
    Likes Received:
    630
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  16. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    1,395
    Likes Received:
    2,496
    Oh, of course. My bad. Anyway, that Mk2 FK-something is not a TSO.
     
  17. VION

    VION Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    84
    Humm They have probably took the earlier era than TOPS reform. ;-)
    Thanks for the info
     
  18. VION

    VION Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    84
    Oh sorry I Don't knew. Thanks for the accuracy.
     
  19. VION

    VION Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    84
    Thanks with pictures this is much recognizable. As Jez said the Vacuum hose is ribbed and larger diameter than the air hose smaller and smooth skin. Well now I'm ready to couple in the rigth way my freigth wagons. Thank you for your help. Much appreciated.
    Cheers
    Gerard
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. VION

    VION Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    84
    Yes on all the coaches the ident is very clear. But when looking at the VAN it is no so much clear and nothing to do with the wear thing Th numbering TOPS is not very complete.
     
  21. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,550
    Likes Received:
    1,415
    As a rule I go by currently, all WSR stock is vacuum braked. NTP all air braked apart from the 101 DMU, BG (newspaper coaches vacuum by default but can change manually to air) and the 12t freight vans, and if youve got the wrong brake set up. THey wont release and your train wont move.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 3
  22. VION

    VION Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    84
    Ah yeah it seems to had saw Matt doing Something on the BG coaches (postal mail/news paper) on each coaches to be ready coupled with a loco on (I Don't remember well at time) air brakes or vacuum brakes. But I Don't be able to find again his video where Matt was doing Something on the each valves coaches to be ready for braking system. As I have also the Heavy freight DLC I got also a freight tanker to transport oïl or gazoil or benzin and I Wonder if this tanker wagon is air or vacuum braked. Thanks for your interest.
     
  23. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,550
    Likes Received:
    1,415
    Theres a chain hanging down under the mail coaches and you can pull each one to switch them to air brakes. There are 14 coaches however snd dont miss one.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
  24. VION

    VION Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    84
    Thank you very much for the info and advice. Very helpful. Much appreciated
    Cheers
    Gerard
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. Jack O'Track

    Jack O'Track Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2019
    Messages:
    225
    Likes Received:
    82
    I learn a lot about trains from you guys in a short while. More than when i was hired some 20 years ago as sound-man for a documentary about the 'Betuwe Lijn' from Rotterdam harbor to Germany, then being built. Poor farmers along the line protesting and police riots to boot.
    Today they're employing these 1.42 locs i think. Red and Railion all over the side.

    PS anecdote, a railway yard driver then walked up to us and said he was no longer driving mainline trains because of too many suicides that occurred to him on his routes, PTST as result. He also said railway suicides were explicitly kept out of the news, to keep potential clients from getting the idea as a solution and becoming famous.

    PS i am still trying to find out how you can hook-up wagons to a loc BTW ... What keys to use f.i. when possible at all.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2019
  26. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,550
    Likes Received:
    1,415
    Shame for that driver. To couple the wagons walk up to them. Aim your view at the coupling until you get a prompt to click or press a key.
     
  27. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,550
    Likes Received:
    1,415
    Heavy freight tankers on Northern trans pennine are air braked.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  28. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2018
    Messages:
    1,698
    Likes Received:
    1,997
    Is that last one the new class 31? I see the new tanker on the right
     
  29. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,550
    Likes Received:
    1,415
    Coupling up at Tees yard if Im not mistaken.
     
  30. TrainSim-Steve

    TrainSim-Steve Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    Messages:
    533
    Likes Received:
    1,048
    Yes it is :)

    Best, Steve
     
    • Like Like x 1
  31. opswintercourse

    opswintercourse New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2019
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    14
    So the locos have 4 brake settings:

    Vac Goods
    Vac Passenger (Pass)
    Air Goods
    Air Passenger (Pass)

    This basically controls how quickly the automatic brakes apply & release on the train, it's much faster for passenger than for goods as the brake systems are set up slightly differently.

    For the box vans on the Pennine route use vac goods, but be aware the cylinders are correctly modelled and aren't that effective, I find it better to do what they did on the real thing for short to medium length goods trains (10-15 is short to medium) and use the loco brake for most braking, only applying the vac when you really need it.

    The BGs (the coaches on that route with the 4 pairs of double doors) are dual braked so you can use air or vac for those with passenger timings selected on your loco (they are larger cylinders than the vans and have a special valve that helps them apply & release faster). Usually they start with air in them for some reason, the first thing I do is to turn the air emergency setter in a guards compt which hugely reduces the drain time on the aur system. You have to drain each coach individually using the valve fitted to the districutor (look for a oddly shaped red lever at one end), pull the string and you will get a loud hiss followed by a quiet hiss which is when you can release the string, draining vacuum is from very close by and you know the coach is drained of vacuum when the brake cylinder piston stops travelling down. All of the other vehicles on the route are air only.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
  32. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    80
    Spot on buddy.

    In regards rolling stock types and brakes used. You can always look it up, if you don't know your subject that well.

    There is plenty of info online. For instance.................. https://www.ltsv.com/w_ref_codes_tops.php
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 4
  33. VION

    VION Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    233
    Likes Received:
    84
    Thank you very much for the link. Very useful. Be sure I done a search through the web but don't get really what I wished to know. Your link describe well what I was searching for.

    Again thank you for your help.
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page