South London Network

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by WonterRail, Jul 25, 2021.

  1. WonterRail

    WonterRail Well-Known Member

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    You may remember a couple a weeks back, I posted a thread called 'What routes, currently not in TSW2, would make great 'Rush Hour' style routes?' and in that thread, I talked about a bunch of routes that I feel would fit the 'Rush Hour' mould of the three routes coming out over the next few weeks. These routes ranged from routes already in TS Classic to routes that feature among the most suggested routes out there. The thread also came with a poll where you could vote for which of those routes you would most like to see in TSW2 and I promised at the time that the routes with the most votes would get their own thread where I would go into more detail about that route.

    Well here we are, just over three weeks later and after a very successful response withy lots of people voting in that poll (seriously, that thread might be my favourite thing I have ever put up on this forum, so much so that I might do another at a later date, maybe after all three 'Rush Hour' routes come out) I am going to live up to what I promised a talk about one of those routes in more depth. How I am going to do this is that I am going to start by doing individual threads on the three most voted on routes that featured in that thread/poll. After that, who knows what will happen, but I might end up doing all of the routes that featured on that thread, but that will depend on how popular they were in the poll. By the way, if you want to check out that thread in particular and vote in the poll if you haven't already, go check it out by clicking the link here.

    So without further ado, lets get into this by talking about the route that got the most votes by far (It wasn't even really that close) South London Network...

    …But first, a reminder of what I said last time.

    What he said in that post

    The Route Itself

    Now I will admit, when I first wrote that section of the thread, I was struggling to come up with an idea of what this route would look like in TSW2 and I'm pretty sure you had the same issue. So after I saw that this route got the most votes out of any route I suggested in that thread, I when into Google My Maps and created a map of what I think this route would look like. I'm sure most of you have you're own ideas of what this route would be like, but this is what I had in mind for this route.

    Map of the Whole Route
    South London Network 1.PNG
    Section around London Victoria, Battersea Park, Clapham Junction, Brixton & Loughborough Junction
    South London Network 2.PNG
    Section around East/West Croydon, Selhurst & Norwood Junction
    South London Network 4.PNG
    Section around Crystal Palace, Beckenham Junction & Bromley South
    South London Network 5.PNG
    Section around London Bridge, Surrey Quays & New Cross
    South London Network 6.PNG
    Keys:

    Black Line=Route
    Blue Dots=Stations
    Green Dots=Depots

    So quite a big route eh? Just to go over some facts, the total length of the route you can see here is 73 Miles (118 Km), The route also has a total of 64 stations and 5 main depots (Selhurst Maintenance Depot, Stewarts Lane Depot, Victoria Carriage Holding Sidings, New Cross Gate Depot and Streatham Hill Depot).

    Now the first thing you probably will notice about the map I've just shown you is that this route would be quite a lot bigger than the route currently available in TS Classic. Of course you've got locations that feature in that route such as Brighton Main Line section between London Victoria and East/South/West Croydon, London Bridge as well as the network of lines going in and out of Crystal Palace, but this route also features a section to the east feature places such as Lewisham, Catford & Catford Bridge, Beckenham Junction, Bromley South and the line that goes to Hayes. The reason I decided to include this section in order to get more of the Southeastern services on this route. You see, if this route was adapted straight from the TS Classic version, all you would get out of the Southeastern services are services that either don't stop anywhere or start/end right in the middle of the map before driving off the map passing through a station that might have a service call there. For example, services heading out of London Victoria heading towards Dover Priory via Faversham stop at Denmark Hill on the way out, but then have to drive past three stations on the way out of the map (Peckham Rye, Nunhead & Crofton Park) so by extending the route a few miles out to these destinations would get a little bit more out of those services and give them a more reasonable place to start/end, rather than right in the middle of the map.

    However, one area that I have been rather hesitant to this route is the section heading towards Charing Cross, Blackfriars and Cannon Street. The reason I haven't included this section in the map is that I personally don't think it would add all that much to this route. Now before you all come at me and give me flame mail for it, let me explain. The thing is, if that section was there, all that service mode would be in that section the following:
    1. Services that only travel that section of the route before going off the map, with maybe the odd service that stops at Lewisham.
    2. It would be a section that would only see limited use in the case of Blackfriars as Thameslink wouldn't feature as part of this route (would come as a loco add-on later) and Southeastern only travels there during peak hours.
    But the main reason I decided to leave this section out is strictly speaking, the grand majority of services that pass through this section all stop at London Bridge on the way out any ways, so it wouldn't be all that much that was missing to begin with. Maybe Charing Cross and Cannon Street would be worth doing as services that serve the line to Hayes do terminate at these stations, but whether this section would be include would be entirely up to you and whatever developer decides to take this route on.

    So, enough talking about the route, time for some pictures.

    Pictures of the route in real-life

    So for this section, I'm not going to include any images of the Brighton Main Line section as we are already getting that with the upcoming route, but what I will focus on is the locations that would be new with this route.

    London Bridge
    [​IMG]
    Crystal Palace
    [​IMG]
    Beckenham Junction
    [​IMG]
    Bromley South
    [​IMG]
    Loughborough Junction
    [​IMG]

    West Croydon
    [​IMG]

    Hayes
    [​IMG]
    Catford/Catford Bridge
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Brixton
    [​IMG]
    Peckham Rye
    [​IMG]
    Tulse Hill
    [​IMG]
    Streatham Hill
    [​IMG]
    New Cross
    [​IMG]
    Lewisham
    [​IMG]
    One thing I would also like to mention here is that while the TS Classic route was set before London Bridge got renovated, the TSW2 version would be set either during or after London Bridge got renovated in order to bring it closer to what it looks like today.

    Available Locos

    Now for the big one, the locos that would be available with this route. While this route would have quite a few layers from other routes already available in TSW2, the base route would come with two locos.

    Southern BR Class 455/8
    [​IMG]
    what would be the main star loco of this route, these were built between 1982-84 to replace the ageing slam door stock which age from as far back as the 1940s. This particular variant of the 455 total at 74, of which, 46 remain in service with Southern, with the other 28 operating with South Western Railway. The version that would come with this route was refurbished between 2004 and 2006 which made some drastic changes to the unit such as installing 3+2 high-back seating as seen in the Class 377, new headlights and the removal of the gangway doors to order to install a drivers air-conditioning unit. These units would operate the grand majority of the metro services in and around this route such as between London Victoria/Bridge to East/South/West Croydon and from London Bridge to Beckenham Junction.

    Southeastern BR Class 465/2
    [​IMG]
    This locos is similar to the loco that came in the Loco Add-on for Southeastern High Speed in which it was built by the same manufacturer (Metro-Cammell), have the same electrical equipment and traction motors (Both built by GEC-Alsthom) and both feature the same bogies (SRP BP62/BT52). The main differences is that the 465/9 was basically a 465/2 that was refurbished to work on outer-suburban routes alongside the 375s whereas the 465/2 is mainly designed for inner-suburban routes around London, especially in this route, where they would operate metro services out of London Victoria/Bridge towards Lewisham, Hayes and Bromley South.

    Locos from other routes already available in TSW2

    As well as the two locos I have just mentioned, this route would also come with a large amount of additional services coming from many other routes within TSW2. Some of those locos that would add additional services would include:

    • Southern BR Class 377/4 (From East Coastway/Brighton Main Line): This would add faster Southern services on the Brighton Main Line between London Victoria/Brighton & East/West Croydon as well as adding more metro services around this route while also subbing into some of the existing 455/8 services
    • Gatwick Express BR Class 387/2 (From Brighton Main Line): This would add AI Gatwick Express that would run between London Victoria and East/South Croydon without stopping anywhere else.
    • Southeastern BR Class 375/9 (From Southeastern High Speed): This would add faster Southeastern services that run between London Victoria and Bromley South, as well as more AI traffic around London Bridge.
    • Southeastern BR Class 465/9 (From the loco add-on of the same name): Would do the same as the 375/9 and also sub into some existing 465/2 services.
    Future Loco Add-Ons

    Even with all the locos I have just mentioned, this route also has a lot of loco add-on potential. I'm sure there are plenty of locos that could be added to this route long after this route would have been released, but for me, one stands out from them all.

    Southeastern BR Class 376[​IMG]
    For me, this loco is long overdue to come to either TS Classic or even TSW2 to an extent, mainly because we don't have a route that has this run in it yet, but I feel like this route would be the prefect place to finally introduce this loco to this game, whether that would be TS Classic or TSW2. This loco is higher-density version of the 375s already available in the game and would also form the basis of the 378s running on the Overground today. The main services these would operate on this route would be on the line to Hayes, but would also operate the small section between London Bridge and Lewisham.

    Overground Add-Ons
    [​IMG]
    On the subject of London Overground, you may have noticed earlier that I also included Surrey Quays as part of the map of this route. This is actually a future proofing measure as come the day that Overground services would be added, they would all start out of that station in order to give them a decent place to start rather than already out on the main route. Starting here, these services would operate out towards New Cross, Crystal Palace, West Croydon and Clapham Junction and sometimes on a limited basis, Battersea Park. These services would also make use of New Cross Gate Depot that would feature with this route, but not have any services using it at release. The loco that would operate these services would be the Class 378 which would either come as an independent loco add-on, or if there is a Overground route in the future that includes this loco (North London Line), it would also add Overground services to this route.

    Thameslink Add-Ons
    [​IMG]
    Now I get the feeling that we are probably going to get a Thameslink add-on for Brighton Main Line sometime in the future, but regardless of whether it would be for that route or here, it would add Thameslink services to this route. The Patterns being between London Bridge and East Croydon, Loughborough Junction and Streatham and Denmark Hill and Bromley South. There are a couple of options for locos on this one. These services could be done with either the Class 319, the Class 377/5, the Class 387/1 or the Class 700, the very later of which being my preferred option as it is the main loco that runs on this route nowadays.

    Conclusion

    Like I said at the beginning, this route got the most votes out of any route that featured in that poll I did about which of those 'Rush Hour' style routes you would most like to see out of those I talked about in that thread and just from looking what this route has the potential to offer, it's easy to understand why. This route would essentially be an entire network of lines coming out of two of London busiest stations. It would also a huge variety of locos, both with the route and also from other routes within TSW2, including one new loco which we haven't seen in this game yet and the potential for many more via future loco add-ons. But probably the biggest selling point of this route would be the fact that this is the route that probably best fits the 'Rush Hour' mould of the upcoming routes as it would a large variety of services all spread across a vast network of lines coming in a out of two landmark stations with a large diversity of locos running on this route, all helping to create what could be the largest, busiest and most diverse timetable in all of TSW2.

    If you think there's something that you would like to see out of this route or you feel like there's something that could be done differently about this route, feel free to post you're thoughts in the replies below.

    That's all from me and I'll see you all for the next route.

    Image Sources:
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
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  2. creeperblox2710

    creeperblox2710 Well-Known Member

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    I've made a similar Suggestion but, I guess you beat me to it.
     
  3. lmcpfc2014

    lmcpfc2014 Well-Known Member

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    Definitely want this route as I used to get the train from Peckham Rye and Nunhead all the time when I was younger. Only problem might be with famous scenery at London Bridge and Victoria along the Thames, especially because of Xbox One and PS4 not being able to have the Shard and Wembley in the distance on the Bakerloo Line. But after seeing a similar style route with Cathcart, I really want the South London Network. There is also potential for DLCs similar to Diesel Legends, with the Class 415/416 in NSE livery
     
  4. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    That's not a potential roadblock for this route, if it were they wouldn't be being added back soon. It was just a console issue.
     
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  5. Tay95

    Tay95 Well-Known Member

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    Good details, would love this
     
  6. lmcpfc2014

    lmcpfc2014 Well-Known Member

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    It's only that it might make it not seem like you're in central London on Old Gen consoles. Lots of custom builds for important buildings as well. If they were to spend more time on it than normal routes and charge more, I would definitely buy it.
     
  7. simontreanor81

    simontreanor81 Active Member

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    I like this suggestion - the similar route on TS2021 is one of the best. I love a network of routes, and this provides real density and variety of services. It also has one key advantage is that, if it only comes with two trains, e.g. a 455 and a 700, these can strengthen the timetables on other routes (Coastway, London to Brighton, Southeastern) and the stock from those routes can appear on this. When this happens - as with the German routes - there's so much extra value.
     
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  8. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent idea and one feature of Class 376 is that it's a train made in the late 1990s to mid-2000s to lack an ac unit. Therefore a window must be opended
     
  9. supersimfan#2303

    supersimfan#2303 Well-Known Member

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    I would love to see this route in tsw but 64 stations and 5 main depots is a bit of a stretch for dovetail they can just about cope with creating rush hour that’s the reason most of the routes were shortened, but if dovetail did decide to do this route then I’d definitely be buying but I would say they should charge extra because this would be such a mammoth task for them.
     
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  10. kenobi#1878

    kenobi#1878 Active Member

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    One word.
    L A G
     
  11. finntd#7891

    finntd#7891 Well-Known Member

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    i can see this, akthough personally i would like a southern london route set in NES or Late BR the 455 definitely caught me into this
     
  12. kevint1972

    kevint1972 New Member

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    The loop that runs from Victoria to London Bridge, as already modelled in Train Simulator, would be good. I think that's the most interesting part. I actually lived near Clock House station once and commuted on the Hayes to Charing Cross line and it's not very interesting south of Lewisham. Bromley South to Victoria is another story, especially the Catford route. I'm also hoping DTG get around to re-doing the Chatham route that included that stretch of line in TSW2.
     
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