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Speculation: Goodbye Editor?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Alex656, Jan 2, 2020.

  1. Alex656

    Alex656 Member

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  2. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    DTG sweeping away the old, musty cobwebs to make room for new, not yet musty cobwebs? Can't say that I blame them.
     
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  3. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    They have stated just before Christmas in Twitch streams that the editor is still being worked on. That information has be relayed on these forums too. So I don't think you need to imagine the editor has been cancelled.
     
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  4. Alex656

    Alex656 Member

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    Please can you show me where that information has be relayed on these forums?
     
  5. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    Here Link
    And Here Link
    But I wish Dovetail would have been much clearer with this
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
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  6. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    I agree the wait for the editor is too long and the management of the issue second only to the Costa Concordia, but still I think you're jumping to conclusions here.
     
  7. Tazz71go

    Tazz71go New Member

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    With this embarrassing silence, one wonders if when the editor comes out there will still be someone who will want to use it ... I understand the difficulties, the unexpected and also the marketing choices, but every now and then something could say it, if nothing else for those who, in anticipation of the editor's exit, have purchased. Personally I took the original game and until I see something concrete that makes me understand that TSW is not just a good video game, I will not buy anything else. In the meantime I see that the prices go down so if it ever comes out I'm blessed editor I will take the Dlc at a discounted price compared to the original release date.
     
  8. Darthtool

    Darthtool Member

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    Its not in Dovetails interest to release an editor surely?.. if modders start making better content then the Dev's then who will see their revenue start to dry up? ;)..
     
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  9. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Not really, these better mods would still require people to buy TSW, and probably some DLC as well in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2020
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  10. Schnauzahpowahz

    Schnauzahpowahz Well-Known Member

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    Ah, an editor thread *grabs a large buttery popcorn* :)
     
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  11. robix61

    robix61 New Member

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    In any case, I will not buy no more DLC until the Editor will not be released. Not for reprisal, but simply because I don't have any more interest without Editor.
     
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  12. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Speaking to somebody from DTG at the recent Model Railway show they said the Editor is not as easy to use as the TS2020 version and they thought it would cause more problems that it would solve.

    I have seen on RailSim.de repaints for the locos and units in TSW
    https://rail-sim.de/forum/wsif/index.php/Category/241-Train-Sim-World/
    There is another thread on this forum about using different locos on different route for both UK and Germany.
    As DTG have not released an Editor they are using some commercial software

    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/all-uk-locos-on-all-uk-routes-mod.20021/
    Maybe ask the OP of the thread how he did the mods and how easy it would be to use.

    Peter
     
  13. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately, these repaints overwerite the original loco, because you can't even properly implement an alternative paintjob/livery into TSW as of now.
     
  14. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Active Member

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    How to interpret this?. It is finished but its to complex for us, so now they not want to release the editor?
    And in the editor software they have a another commercial software. I don't know.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  15. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    I had a chat with Just Trains, just asking if it's in their interest to create for TSW when an SDK arrives, they like many, are waiting too. I was cheeky in asking if the rumours were true lol, but as you can expect, not going to let on anything, naturally! But doesn't hurt to enquire.
    I'm keen to see what can be done once AP / Just Trains etc etc get their hands on it.

    While we're on the subject of editor, anyone know any mods other than the link I posted?
     
  16. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    What mods are you looking for?
     
  17. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    All sorts, just to have a look
     
  18. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    Can one of the mods edit this thread title ?....it is completely misleading to someone casually browsing this forum thinking the editor has been cancelled rather than just some random (false) allegation.
     
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  19. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Just adding a question mark would be enough probably.
     
  20. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but then maybe it was intentionally supposed to be misleading?! Some want to perpetuate the myth that it has been cancelled.
     
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  21. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    It's not misleading, it's an opinion, as most things on this site are
     
  22. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    "Goodbye Editor" doesn't sound like an opinion to be me, it is a statement!
     
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  23. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Exactly!
     
  24. AyrtonS8

    AyrtonS8 Well-Known Member

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    There was a Daily Star aticle just before christmas about TSW and one of the questions was about the editor. The answer - "Work on the editor for Train Sim World is ongoing, and is currently in a closed Beta phase. There’s more work to be done before it’s ready, and we hope to be able to share more with players in the near future". So the editor is definately not gone but I think Dovetail just want to keep it underwraps for now.

    The article - https://www.dailystar.co.uk/tech/gaming/train-sim-world-2020-dovetail-21130082
     
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  25. rosariabarone780

    rosariabarone780 New Member

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    Let's say that it takes a great deal of optimism and an out of the ordinary inner strength to still believe in DTG's claims.:cool:
     
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  26. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Hyperbole much?!
     
  27. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    DTG must be shivering in their collective shoes!
     
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  28. rosariabarone780

    rosariabarone780 New Member

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    What?
     
  29. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    I'm not quite sure if you understand the meaning of hyperbole.....or you are disagreeing for being called out for it, but it certainly was a hyperbolic statement on your part.
     
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  30. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Well DTG do have a history of making great promises only to then... up to scrapping the entire game. So I can see where he's coming from.
     
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  31. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Which is probably why they don’t talk about things too much in advance.
     
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  32. 390001

    390001 New Member

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    how nice of Alex656 to say thank you to you Jorgen for providing the information he asked for. Got to love it when people make a thread ranting then a further post ranting. Someone answers there question wants that person to prove there point because they dont believe the reply they got, to which Jorgen done, then Alex dont even have the deceny to admit his point was wrong and say thank you.

    Got to laugh when people are proved wrong and go quiet.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
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  33. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Happens a lot on forums. Wait till the editor comes out, this place will be like a ghost town! Although no doubt a new topic will arise, or they will find problems with the editor.
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
  34. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I can't, they have stated the editor is still being developed, within the last few weeks.
     
  35. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    DTG literally said 'we're looking to the future of flight, building a simulation platform for the future' just two weeks before they scrapped Flight Sim World. So the fact they have said that the Editor is still being developed is evidence of nothing.

    If DTG gave us a video showing the public build of the Editor and a demonstration of how it handles cooked assets (one of the biggest technical hurdles) then people here may be less sceptical. As it stands there is not one scrap of tangible evidence that a public build of the Editor even exists, not a video, not a screenshot, nothing. And it's not as though we're being impatient either, DTG are not just a few months into development of the public Editor, they are three years into the development. They announced a public beta in 2018, it's now 2020, still nothing.

    Why can't they give us a live stream showing the public build of the Editor they are using for this 'closed beta?' Because I believe there is no public build of the Editor. From what I've been told, the 'closed beta' just uses the in-house version of the Editor, shared with a small group of third party developers who DTG trust with the source files for TSW. If this isn't true, I'd like to invite DTG to contradict this with some evidence; A live stream showcasing the public build of the Editor being used for the closed beta would be great. After all they have done a live stream with the in-house Editor, and as the closed beta of the public Editor is apparently underway, so why not do a live stream showing it? When DTG know how important the Editor is to the community, what possible reason is there not to showcase it? Unless there is no public build of the Editor that is...
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2020
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  36. Sintbert

    Sintbert Active Member

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    At this point i would be happy if they just put out the Editor without the capability to modify cooked content.
    Together with a small pack of uncooked assets, a train or two and a small demo-route to play around with. So at least we could start building our own stuff in it.
    Then we could at least use the editor, be it only for non-commercial content...
     
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  37. Ding

    Ding Member

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    If you guys don't mind me asking: From the developer's perspective, how would a public build of the editor actually benefit TSW?

    For me it seems like having a closed build, that I only share with trusted 3rd party developers (that I've contracted to create content for me), is much easier to maintain.

    This way I can also make sure that:
    - Content that's being created for the game does meet the game's standards
    - Is aligned with the vision of the game
    - That this content is sold through me and not 3rd parties
    - I have control over what is being developed and when it's being released
    - I am able to troubleshoot bugs or performance issues caused by 3rd party content

    I am aware that we have A LOT of awesome 3rd party content for Train Simulator and that this stuff is what kept me playing the game, but it was also a lot of content that was sold through 3rd party sites, rather than the Dovetail Games store. So from a company's perspective, why should I miss out on that while getting a bunch of 3rd party content for my game I have no control over?
     
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  38. rosariabarone780

    rosariabarone780 New Member

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    The reason is that programs like TSW, Trainz, ETS2 etc. without an Editor or Quick Drive or without a Mods (at the moment they are only substitutes because the original trains cannot be cloned) don't make any sense.
     
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  39. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Let me rip these apart one by one:

    - I hardly ever saw (paid) 3rd party content not meeting the game's standard. Usually it exceeds that standard by far.
    - The same way that, for example, the class 166 or the DB BR 143 were upgraded to today's TSW feature list, with destination panels etc.?
    - Well the 3rd parties will be SO happy about that I'm sure!
    - "Sorry Mister Thomson, we're happy to see you finished it, but we can't allow you to release your route at this time. Holiday season is for our own stuff only." Kinda like that?
    - Again, DTG and troubleshooting?
     
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  40. Ding

    Ding Member

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    Yep but this is all from your point of view as a customer. From a developer's point of view there are many good reasons why not to release public tools and editors for your game. Some games used to when I started with PC gaming in the late 1990s, but this hardly happens anymore.
     
  41. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    Firstly you exclude everyone who creates for hobby and passion, rather than commercial purposes. As a result a lot of variety is lost in terms of eras and countries represented and there is overall less content. It also means there will be no freeware content.

    Secondly it deprives individuals from creating their own content to suit their own purposes. Perhaps I travelled on the West Somerset Railway behind a Class 37 and I want to recreate that trip in TSW. In TS2020 I can create a scenario to replicate that, in TSW, despite owning a Class 37 and the WSR, I can't recreate that trip. So having no Editor limits what individuals can do and restricts the replayability of the game; Players are stuck with the scenarios which come with TSW.

    Thirdly it adds value to TSW and all of the DTG's DLCs. Let's say I create a locomotive DLC, it needs scenarios and a route to run on, so I create scenarios for the Tee Valley Line. This means many people who want my locomotive DLC will buy TVL so they can play the scenarios on it, thus increasing sales of TVL for DTG.

    Forthly it's a standard model for simulation games. Almost all simulation games have active modding communities and so there is an expectation that developers will support that. DTG have used this expectation (by promoting the Editor) to help sell TSW and convince people to adopt it as their primary train simulator. If they do not deliver the Editor they will have destroyed a lot of trust and done appalling damaged to their brand.

    Lastly they need it to stay competitive. If another company releases a comparable simulator with mod support, DTG will lose almost all third party creators to it. The competitor would steal TSW's market share in just a few short months, as the DLC catalogue (both payware and freeware) would grow with the influx of third party developers.
     
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  42. Ding

    Ding Member

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    Thanks for adding your thoughts Draftsman!

    I haven't thought of this one actually! This is a good point!
     
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  43. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    Sounds a lot like what happened to the SimCity Series, and how it was then killed by Cities:Skylines. Mod support was only one stab to its torso, but one of the most lethal one. Thousands and thousands of additions to pick from in the workshop.
     
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  44. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    So, who has told you this information, is it someone at DTG?

    Maybe it isn't ready to be shown yet, it still may be a long way away. However, considering the heated discussions on here and presumably elsewhere, if they had decided to cancel the editor, I would hardly expect them to have at least twice confirmed the editor is still in development knowing what response that would likely garner if then it was cancelled.
     
  45. SamYeager270

    SamYeager270 Well-Known Member

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    From what we saw from Matt's stream it's likely that the first few problems will be that it's a lot more difficult to learn how to use than the TSxx equivalent, needs a rather beefier system than many may have and of course will have bugs which is why DTG is planning to have a beta before full release. In addition because the existing content is cooked then it's likely that some (many?) will find it's not as versatile in some respects as the TSxx equivalent. Plenty of opportunity for many to find issues even if they are not among those looking to lambast DTG.
     
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  46. thearkerportian

    thearkerportian Well-Known Member

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    The kind of people that seriously looks into creating content - which is the only kind of people that matter in this context - will most likely be both more understanding where any issue stems from and more willing and able to help in solving it.
     
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  47. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Any statement made by someone who is not an expert in the field, an operative of the company involved or who made the thing in the first place is espousing an opinion. SO this whole post came from someone who, in their opinion, believes the editor is dead.
    If YOU want to join their opinion and take that as a statement of fact, good for you.

    Unless it comes from Matt or a rep of DTG, or via reputable verifiable channels I take it as hearsay
     
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  48. doc_woods

    doc_woods Member

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    There's presumably a longer-term problem there: how does one become a "trusted 3rd party developer"? Presumably with TS1 that happens because someone dips their toes in out of curiosity (maybe making scenarios or similar), gets more involved, produces some worthwhile freeware, then maybe submits some stuff to the developer program...

    The path doesn't really exist for a "no public editor"-TSW. Obviously they've got their existing developers, but at best that number will only stay the same. I guess in principle you might have some former DTG employees, but it might not be in their interest to encourage their staff to leave and gain more freedom to release what they want either.
     
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  49. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I am sure you are correct, there will be issues no doubt.

    I do wonder how much we will be able to do with it, certainly from my point of view it would be just creating scenarios and hopefully service modes, from Matt's stream it looks like that could be a slower process to perform that the TS1 editor which is pretty good, apart from the annoying despatcher. However if we cannot make scenarios for the "cooked contents" then it will be of little use for me anyway.

    I hope there will be a lot of support for those users who want to create objects, trains and routes etc.
     
  50. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Obviously I don't believe as I have heard what Matt has said on the matter and take what he says over someone not in a position to know. However as I said it is a misleading statement and someone coming onto the forums would see that thread title and think "oh the editor has been cancelled". I wondered for a moment if there had been some new development I had missed when I saw the title, until I read the thread. There are some on here who are happy to believe non-reputable sources however and then rumours and untruths circulate.
     

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