Speculations: Next German Tsg Route?

So, normally i wouldn't put my youtube videos here, but this time it makes sense:



So once again it's: Next Stop BaWü!

Additional Hints:

• Don't Smoke Kids
• Unless it's a steam loco.

What do you think?

 

German steam would be interesting

 

Please, no steam…

I have to admit that I was surprised how MITT was able to capture me. Especially the 1020 is my new go to loco, despite the fact that I usually like the modern stuff. But it is more the era that is represented in the case of MITT. I can absolutely relate to this.

I have, however, no direct memory of steam trains and I have always failed to find steam locos appealing in any way.

But it will be what it will be. And as it is TSG I will probably buy it anyway

 

Yeah, Expert BR 52.... nobody is able to move it ;-)

 

Well,

taking a look at this at around 10:30, the sign, again (like the Expert 101 manual), doesn't mention the founding members of TSG, Maik Goltz, Influenzo and...well,the third one,not mean to bother him...). So, it seems to me, like more people connected to TSG (the Expert team, and the Mittenwald-team), while 'the founding members' around Maik Goltz still are working on the project, they already had hinted to on Niddertalbahn. Actually, LIDAR data for BaWü was free since somewhat in June last year, while before, it was quite costly, I think somewhat around 1.6 million Euros for BaWü in whole...but..

Well, ok, just my interpretation...TSG once released Konstanz-Villingen for TSC. Part of the route is...D)onaueschingen-S)ingen-K)onstanz...so somewhat similar to...D)on't S)moke K)ids. well, and a steam loco...well...

on this route...


at least, there appears a steam loco...even though, it's a memorial...so, might it probably be the Schwarzwald-Bahn?

 

Hypothetically speaking, if TSG wanted to tackle a German steam loco, I’d be extremely interested. TSG might be one of the only 3rd parties that could feasible improve the core simulation given the full-time DTG members.

Of course, that’s all massive speculation from this little hint and I wouldn’t read anything into it for now.

 

Not a fan of steam either.

But yeah it's TSG :') Still, I don't think I would be there day one for any steam-only route.

 

I don‘t play too much steam, but a one off german steam loco for raltours? Yes please!!!

 

No that's a wrong assumption. Over the time several members of TSG already confirmed that the BaWü hint on NID was right at that time, but after that the plans changed. Now we've got MITT. Maik also wasn't really part of the Niddertalbahn project, except for working on the DMU.
But a lot of people are guessing the Schwarzwaldbahn which makes a lot of sense. But actually it really doesn't matter which route TSG will do. It will be a great route anyway.
While I also don't really like driving steam locos more than modern traction, it's pretty cool TSG supplies us with vintage German locos, while DTG does the modern stuff. I like it that way. Also while some people maybe don't care about a steam loco, I'm sure the coaches which will come with it might be interesting to a wider audience as we still lack a variety of German coaches.

 

Don't forget additional freight wagons, we really need a few more closed vans and small kesselwagen to provide variety, especially if they could have DB/ OBB liveries as standard.

 

Probably not going to happen, but I'd like a TSW-iteration of the Wutachtalbahn. I guess it'd have similarities to the work TSG has done before.

 

Just to put that into the correct light. TSG is still me, only me. There are two people contributing to my own needs since a while. That's Influenzo (Michael Früchtl, 3d Art for 628,420,218 and further projects) and a guy you don't know much if at all (who did the 3D Art for G6 (also in TSC a decade ago) and is doing the 232 with me). There is one more and new guy for future projects. That's it. Some might assume TSG is a franchise. That's not the case. I just gave my good name (for free) to that Lukas team to provide support for selling that good stuff. I'ts not a secret that a name with good reputation will sell better. And yes, it's a risk for me. But just a tiny one as it seems. I, by myself, do concentrate on doing vehicles only. Mostly for DTG as a second party. Sometimes my very own DLCs (if they ever happen ). Lukas team does what they do, completely without me.

Just to clarify that confusion that comes up from time to time.

 

hey maik, any news about 420?

 

Unless TSG like burning money than it wouldn’t be in their best interest to build a steam loco.
It’s been well documented on the forums Steam doesn’t sell well.

 

I'd trust TSG to do steam traction justice, but seems like a LOT of effort for a one-off project to be used on railtours, for example.

Would they really tackle an entire period-appropriate steam route with all the additional passenger and freight equipment that would require?

Seems quite unrealistic to expect from such a small team- DTG couldn't pull off SoS with what seemed like an all-hands effort with added support/pressure from the CEO- they didn't even get particularly close, actually, as the disastrous follow-up of PFR led to the permanent abandonment of steam traction.

But, if it's what they're passionate about, PLEASE let them cook and not release until they've got it nailed down.

Derail Valley has finally shown me the joys of steam (though i'll always be a diesel boi at heart lol), and the comparison to the current state of steam in TSW is nothing short of painful for DTG's product.

 

Thanks for your input!

 

We've been told before that BR doesn't sell well too, now JT have released two very popular BR routes and proven that isn't the case.

I've never believed that "steam doesn't sell" just that the way DTG handled steam was mediocre and could be done much better.

DTG just released a route that nobody liked with reused rolling stock, if TSG want to have a go at a steam engine then I say let them.

 

Yes, but BR routes were continued to be made in the TSW2 era and people bought them. I rarely saw any comments saying they had no interest in BR, as opposed to seeing lots of comments on the forum from people saying they have no interest in steam. I’m giving you my response on facts and evidence here that I’ve read over the past year.
If I scoured the forum of posts made by users within the last 2-3 years, they would out weight your claim that their was equal proof that BR and Steam doesn’t sell well. The equilibrium of the two don’t match. It would be like 80% steam and 20% BR in terms of “doesn’t sell well”.
And as you already said. BR continues to thrive thanks to JT, where as steam is a forgotten dream.

 

This is basically it.

If TSG were to give steam a shot, it would be most welcome! They might even improve the steam physics which could then be used to develop more UK and introduce US steamers.

Steam representation in TSW is lacking and that NEEDS to change. There is so much content in the eras of steam that is waiting to be made. The third party scene of TS Classic is enough proof that steam does sell. It just needs to be given the care and respect steam locomotives deserve.

With how in depth the Expert 101 is, I reckon TSG could pull off a decent simulation.

Regardless of what TSG do, it’ll no doubt be excellent though

 

The forum is a tiny amount of the player base.

 

I don’t agree with your statement due to the fact that you’re talking about two entirely different games here. One is PC only and one is a multi-platform.
Since TSW doesn’t support third party mods/content on all platforms it’s limited to a PC audience only. Yes TSC is definitely the home of steam content, but how long has that game been available? Of course it sold steam content well as it was the only place to get your steam fix.
The newer generation of train sim players who have gotten into TSW within the last few years aren’t all that interested in steam. The proof is in the writing and sales.
Another reason is people are never happy. Remember all the backlash with SOS? It’s another incentive for DTG to avoid steam as people won’t buy it because of the poor physics.

 

Of course there was backlash, it was hyped up beyond belief (even coming with a grandiose title like SoS lmao) and then the final product was just awful.

But, i don't think that has anything to do with steam traction itself- just the usual chaotic DTG approach to "project management" imo.

They could have started by releasing a small tank engine on an existing route and perfected the steam simulation under a lot less pressure, but nooooooo that would make too much sense lol.

 

I mean I’m no expert when it comes to steam engines, but I guess you’re right there they obviously bit off more than they could chew.
The average Joe (like myself) didn’t really notice anything out of the ordinary when I played SOS, but the hardcore elites would nip pick all the mistakes DTG made, and I’m guessing there was a lot of them lol.
I’m not going to pretend I like steam, I really don’t, I find it very boring in fact, but I still would want it to be successful as there’s people that actually want it in the game.

DTG just need to inspire some confidence again with steam and then maybe Thomas the tank won’t be the last steam engine we’ll see in TSW

 

What about the route without steam?

 

You're absolutely right- DTG's implementation of steam was almost exactly like driving a diesel or electric- that's the entire problem! Not to mention just a raft of bugs and general lack of polish on the route itself.

It's not really about being hardcore elite lol, just basic things that make steam traction distinctive. Mainly fire and water management- but SoS launched with none of that lol.

I never really got steam either until i started playing more derail valley- the 0-6-0 shunter in that game is the perfect intro to steam imo- DTG should have gone with something like that imo- easy enough for one person to manage the coal and water, but complex enough to provide a challenge even once you've learned the basics. No tender to worry about and pretty good sightlines.

I'll tell you starting her up from cold and dark never gets old imo.

 

The annoying thing is that steam locos already have a quite detailed simulation. For example the simulation already allows them to consume water, except they all have an infinite water checkbox ticked. They all already consume coal, but since they turned off the part of the HUD that shows coal and water levels, there is no way to actually check without mods. There is a key bind to shovel coal manually, but it only appears in the editor, so you can't use it in game.

While making the steam simulation accurate for larger engines might be more difficult, adding things like manual firing should be easy and I imagine already existed in dev builds. They just decided to turn it off without explanation for some reason. Considering the popularity of the expert BR 101, I don't know why they wanted to actively make steam less interactive and interesting to drive.

If TSG did do a steam loco it would easily be a day 1 purchase for me, I would love to see what German routes looked like in the days of steam. Stuff like injector control, manual firing, coal and water levels should be able to be implemented already without any changes to the core steam physics. Though, whether the simulation is actually accurate would depend on how big the loco is (according to one of the devs, the steam simulation is already fairly accurate for small locos like the 4F, but it starts to get more unrealistic with larger ones like the Jubilee).

 

I genuinely think that there is a large mismatch between expectations and reality when it comes to steam engines. Sure, each of us went to watch mighty steam engines when we were kids, but very few people actually understand how it works and how to control them. I play railway simulators for like twenty five years and still I have rather surface understanding of it all.

You seem to have two distinct groups of TSW customers - young people of roughly 14-20 age who are here to have some entry-level fun, maybe after few months they start to dig into safety systems (which forces them to understand also signalling better and less rely on HUD), but even that is quite a lot of information you have to process. There seems to be very large amount of them, but they tend to buy 1-2 DLCs and move on to other games.

Second group are people around 30 (and smaller portion even much older) who are passionate semi-pros, understand what they are doing, enjoy bit of challenge and learning. But for them, this is often a way to relax after work. It's definitely a smaller group (but very passionate and vocal) who is happy to collect all DLCs of their interest over time.

Expert 101 is catering to those people, but if you understand all the basics (how to drive a train, how PZB works, how signals work), it's not really that hard to play, the challenge is in the randomness, but you can still just chill for an hour, maybe solving one or two faults but still have nice calm time while sipping tea.

In contrast, steam engines require constant micromanagement of a giant system that disbalances with every touch you do to controls. Lot of that system does not have visible outputs and is managed based on feeling, which is very difficult to transfer through the screen. It was a full time job for two or more people and now you have to make it also playable on controller with very few buttons, for example. It will always require your full attention, constant adjustments and it will never be a straightforward fun to play, it's more like infinite puzzle solving. While collectors would definitely jump for it, it may still not be enough to pay for itself, as the larger part of the playerbase will either skip it, or refund it soon after trying, because while cool to look at, it does not cater to the gameplay they seek at all.

Another problem is that everyone immediately wants the famous, giant, majestic engines, 01, 42, 52,.. These would be absolute horror gameplay-wise. Lot of momentum in all the systems, little responsiveness to immediate controls, absolutely necessary to plan multiple kilometers ahead. Yes, it will be cool to see and play for the first time, but are you sure you would play it regularly? I think it would be a great pain in reality.

I would love to see steam coming to Germany just for the change of pace, but I think it would be much more successful if it was some boring but easily managable small loco that you can understand in some reasonable timeframe, 64, 86 or other small branch locos. Ideally coupled with something else you can play there, VT 95 seems like a natural fit to complement trains with loco and wagons. That would give you something nice to play on more regular, chill basis while having the steam locos at least drive around you...

 

Yes it’s like when people immediately ask for the Big Boy when thinking of US steam. I tried the Smokebox one in TSC, superb model but even with the assists on a massive workload and not really enjoying the drive.

I’m amongst those who would like to see DTG have another go at steam, even if just to get it level with basic TSC or MSTS functionality. For the UK something GWR would sell like hot cakes particularly if it came with a period route. Not so sure for Germany but maybe something like the Harz narrow gauge, up to the summit at Brocken perhaps?

 

Please no steam

 

I'm a bit confused, as to why so many people are against a German steam loco. I was also underwhelmed by the three steam locos DTG has released, as they weren't simulated probably. Boiler pressure was always high, starting in wet conditions was impossible (even with experience) and the routes weren't that interesting either (especially for non-Brits).
But are so many of you not interested in Steam at all? Sure they are complicated and hard to drive, but who of you would like a steam loco, if it was "dumbed" down to a level of the Vectron? I'd personally rather have a fully simulated steam loco, with proper pressure management, but you could automate these things for people that just want to drive. I was a bit disappointed when DTG put so much work into making Steam possible and then stopping after three locos, because the player base didn't connect with it. Steam is something very unique, not another EMU but something with charm, power, and emotions. I get that only a small amount of the player base is interested in the technical details of a Steam loco, but at least you can see most of the mechanical links, power lines, and auxiliary drives. Not just white cabinets in an engine room where the only thing you notice is a hum or buzz.
I would love a German Steam loco, especially if TSG makes it. It would be a USP and not another recycling dumpster like MKN.

 

At the risk of straying even further from the original topic... I guess I just don't NEED TSW to be "everything." It doesn't need to be steam. There are other games I play that are better for it and more enjoyable. I don't mind the "simple" ones we already have in game and still drive them. If I want more "realism" I go to Derail Valley, both diesel and steam. I don't expect that level from TSW, which is more of a shallower yet wider experience. More variety of routes and rolling stock, but less detailed. Derail valley is a few locos, one map and more depth of simulation.
Others go to Run 8 or others for that "realism." I know people get hung up on the name ("sim") but let's be honest. Others do it more detailed and that's fine.I play TSW for the LESS realistic experience and more for the "fun" of being able to hop in and go.
Which makes sense because that's how it was designed to be from the beginning and it caters to the console which is admittedly less sim focused than PC.

It's like if you drive a "mini bus" and expect it to be a full sized city bus. It's not despite it being called a "bus" in the name. It's a van that moonlights as a bus. It is cool for what it is, but you're trying to make it into what it isn't and what it never was meant to be.

Not every game has to do everything that everyone wants.

 

The majority of the playerbase aren't interested in steam, no. Most aren't even interested in anything before 1970 to be fair. It's an 80/20 at best, maybe less if you mean "detailed" steam. I know it's shocking that people don't all like exactly the same things.

I'm guessing if you went to the games like Railroads Online that is ONLY steam engines you'd find a few players that would like diesel in that too, not most would want steam engines and that's okay. Not every game has to have everything for everyone.

 

There were lots of comments at the time, especially after TVL came out after NTP. People on here asking why we're getting all these old trains. I remember saying that in a year or so we would be awash with modern routes which turned out to be true. Also I don't get the impression SOS was a failure, DTG's subsequent washing their hands of it has probably caused it to be unpopular.

Also steam seems to do very well in TSC as I would argue it's the busiest "sector" or railway history among third parties and freeware

 

TSC is not TSW.
The TSW crowd is focused on newer trains, probably because the player base is younger and on consoles.
Do we REALLY need to rehash this on every thread that comes out on every other topic?
Could there just be one steam thread to keep the debate going?

Why does TSW have to be TSC?

 

Start a new thread about steam if you want then.

Several people have contributed to the discussion regarding steam and whether it is popular or not it is relevant to this thread as some of the speculation is whether TSG might embark on some steam comment. I was answering the comment that asserted that there hadn't been any complaining about BR period content, which there had.

The lack of steam or the abandonment of it is clearly a bone of contention for some of us.

If you go to a local heritage railway there are many young volunteers. Some of the steam developers on TSC are young. It might be a different sim but I don't see why well made steam shouldn't be popular in TSW.

If the demographic of TSW are too young to appreciate steam why would they like a class 87 any more than a Jubilee. In the UK it is easier to get close to a steam engine than a class 87.

 

There are several threads already.
It's been discussed over and over, and I'm not disagreeing there are SOME steam fans out there obviously.
It's just whether they are the TSW playerbase...which they don't appear to be.
They ARE on many other games very much so.

My question is why TSW has to try to do what other games are doing to please a small minority of its playerbase?

It's even smaller if you take out the people who were fine with steam as it was implemented.

I get it.
You don't like it.
That's fine.
But you're not everyone, nor even the majority.

You have a right to an opinion, but t's just as valid for the majority of the playerbase to be fine with the game as it is and wanting focus on other things. Hell, I don't care for the majority of the post-2000 rural urban EMUs and most of the German stuff but that's what the majority want so it'd be selfish of me to tell them they can't have it and TSW should only do what I happen to like.

 

Why would they be, if there are no good steam engines? Maybe, if there where proper steam engines in TSW,
more steam fans would play TSW.

If an Developer would like to create steam train for TSW, why not?
LIke you said, it would be selfish to tell other players they can´t have what they like.
I´m quite sure that a TSG steam engine with the TSG quality standards would sell pretty well.
Even the Expert 101 sold well, atleast well enough to consider a second expert loco.
I´m quite sure the people who really wanted that level of realism are a minority too.

If a product is good, it sells. That´s what I believe.
But it´s okay if you have a different opinion.
I personally would really like some more steam in TSW.

 

If you manage to appeal to those crowds from other games who want steam and convince them to play the game you'll get a bigger player-base than if you keep appealing to the core player-base over and over again. Fundamentally the same reason Zelda became more open-world, or Sony making the God of War reboot a much more mature, story driven franchise. Former was trying to gain back marketshare from games like Skyrim, while the latter was trying to get players who came in from other more serious titles story focused games like The Last of Us. Game devs want to expand appeal of their franchises, and that often means looking at other games to see what they do that's popular.

Also I'm just going to put it out-there, there's a famous supposed Henry Ford quote that goes “If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.” To be clear I don't think Henry Ford ever said that, but nonetheless the general idea that people often don't know what they want until they see it in action nonetheless holds true.

Case and point if you asked people before Breath of the Wild if that the game they wanted chances are it wasn't. Some people wanted a more open-game, but very few expected Nintendo to lean into it as much as they ended up doing. And by extension dropping many aspects of the Zelda formula people wouldn't have in a million years suggested cutting. Likewise I don't think anyone coming off of prior God of War titles was really clamoring for a sad dad story from a series known for its mindless action. At the end of the day though, in both cases not only did both games do well, they expanded their audiences well past what prior games managed.

 

Third parties are free to do so.
I've encouraged that in every thread on it.
And yes the Expert 101 is a perfect example I've made before on this topic.
So, we agree.
A third party would definitely be encouraged to get involved.
However, blaming DTG for that not happening is where the main issue lies.
Well, two myths really.

First, I don't think it's some nefarious "conspiracy" against steam by DTG like others do.
DTG made the call it wasn't well received and moved onto other things.
It's a legitimate business decision.

Second, a third party is not being prevented from doing steam on their own. Rather, I would GUESS that they're going to other platforms where there's more audience for it. TSC for example. If the audience for your product (steam locos) is on TSC, why use the time you could use making more TSC content to push it on TSW where there is less interest?

It just doesn't make a lot of sense.
Hence why I don't get why people are insisting it HAS to be on TSW even though it's in a ton of other places.

We're also acting like there are a LOT of niche developers for this content just rushing the door to get in. It's a very niche market and a very niche development interest. Most of them are passion projects and not to make a ton of money. Most of the "development teams" are very small, many one or two people. If there isn't a lot of new content, then maybe it's because there's just not a lot of people with the skills and desire to work on this, and the market itself is rather small as well.

Narrowing that down FURTHER to a SINGLE game means even fewer involved. How many "companies" are involved in everything released for TSW to date? Less than a dozen. Maybe 6? What are the odds that one of those six or a very rare newcomer wants to do the specific project you personally have in mind? So, it's kind of you get what you get.

To me as a NON-DEV, if I wanted to do steam without being able to change the core code, I'd just make a functional "steam engine" and simply use that to virtually send "power" to what would essentially be a diesel engine "shell" since power is power. Once you are turning the wheels, it's all the same regardless of power source. How much power is produced you can develop your own system to manage, with fuel use, water use, boiler pressure, etc. However, as far as TSW base code goes, it just needs to know how much energy is coming out to turn the wheels, right?
1,500 horsepower of diesel and 1,500 horsepower of steam is the same thing, no matter how it's "generated" before that. I'm not a dev and don't know how to build a steam engine either, but to me that suggests it's POSSIBLE to do even by a third party. It's just a lack of desire (or depth of knowledge) to do it by a developer. That and there's very few developers in total.

Maik is the head of TSG as he said in this thread, and he's a maker of locomotives and rolling stock, so why not ask him what it would take for a third party to work on a steam engine? He is the one that would know from having worked on them in TSW.

Even if he's not interested in doing one himself, he could shed some light on the issue of what is required.

 

Well I would like to know where I implied I was in a majority?! I can't imagine the majority of the player base are clamouring for a lot of the content. We all have individual interests.

I enjoy all aspects of train simming old and modern but I am getting fed up of much of the same type of content. I want variety.

I feel it would benefit the sim if it was able to offer a wide variety of experiences, it would possibly benefit DTG. I am using TSC a lot, much of my money for train sinning over the next few months will be going Caledonian works, Victory Works, Steam Sounds Supreme and Precision loco engineers. If there was a even a small percentage of immersive steam era DLC compared to TSC I would stick to TSW and that money would be going to TSW, although route length is another factor. As it stands only the TSG route and the Cardiff route and maybe the Dutch route tempts me at the moment.

I may be in a small minority although I'd like to see the figures as there was much excitement during the build up to SOS, it was DTG who released a route which feels unfinished with stock which doesn't seem to operate properly, after building up the hype more than I've ever seen them do before. It's little wonder customers don't wish to invest in steam content when it's been abandoned. I will continue to speak on the subject until someone who has authority on the forum tells me to desist.

 

The point in blaming DTG is, DTG was it, who hyped up Spirit of Steam. It seemed like steam would become a big thing in TSW, just to let down on it in an unfinished state. They promised fixes and features they never delivered like manual fireman. And after Spirit of Steam, they came up with Peak Forest. A route from nowhere to nowhere, still no fixes or new features and physics and then the Scotsman, worst physics of them all, just to say steam doesn´t sell. Yeah, funny... Why would I buy an unfinished product with half of the features missing? They should have started with a Pannier Tank for Somerset, just to get a solid base. If for example a car manufacterer would sell a car without a steering wheel, just to say cars don´t sell. How can you know, if you not even tried? I´m not saying this follows an evil anti-steam-plan or something, it just seems a bit odd to say steam doesn´t sell, if the only steam engines that we have are nowhere near finished.

 

Keep fighting the past battles with nothing new to add. This thread has entirely derailed from discussion of a new route which was what made it interesting, so have fun.

 

Wheeling things back on topic... I would still like to see TSG have a go at the Obereruhrtalbahn. Always a favourite of mine in Zusi, the eastern end in particular is very scenic and of course it would offer a largely diesel main line.

 

If you really want to know that and if you can live with the result. I indeed had a steam loco on my plans and it was also already in 3d art production for a while. But i cancelled that project really fast. Reasons are manifold, including the simulation problems TSW has (i can't fix them). Also the loco would have no usage on the actual routes other than railtours what then would need additional coaches too. Just not economical at all to do that. Would probably take a year or more to do such a loco pack. Would never get that back in revenues.

 

To get back on track with route-guessing here too:
If the "Don't Smoke Kids" really is a hint, and it sure looks like one, I'd guess Donaueschingen-Singen-Konstanz is a pretty safe bet. I could think of no other BaWü route, where the acronym would fit. It's roughly in the same range of length compared to other German TSW routes, and is winding through some very varied landscape along its run. Could be a pretty nice driving experience

As for the steam part:
While I'm not too enthusiastic about steam either, why not give it a try? Would be an interesting change of pace, just like Mittenwaldbahn was. And surely a challenge to get good at driving
If the route really is Donaueschingen-Konstanz, I have no clue which kind of locos were in use there at various points in time. My bet is on a 03. Very common on many similar routes all across BaWü for decades.

Edit:
One more thought... what if the "steam" part is somewhat misleading? What if we'll get a BR 221 diesel loco instead?
It's got an oil-fired steam heater for passenger coaches, so it's a steam loco... kinda.

 

If the V200 really does arrive, I will have to sue DTG/TSG, because the frequency with which I could use this locomotive in the TSW could lead to my complete absence from work and, consequently, my immediate dismissal...

 

Appreciate the insight Maik and parallels what Pete from Victory Works has affirmed. Without core changes to the steam simulation model, there’s nothing third parties can do to improve the current state it’s in.

Anyhow, back to the Obereruhrtalbahn…

 

With the input shared by Maik, I'm starting to think that Donaueschingen-Singen-Konstanz with AI-only steam trains in Immendingen sounds reasonably plausible and fitting the hints on Mittenwaldbahn.

That way you can "bring" steam to german TSW, while not having to bother with the playable train simulation. It would still add plenty of scenery, it can drive around between Immendingen and Hintschingen, do shunting in Immendingen, move over from/to depot, all that while you will be in controls of something more reasonable for simulation. And it would unlock more options for backdated routes in similar fashion, mixed operation with AI-only steam and some playable diesels or old e-loks.

What traffic was on this route in 70s, 80s, 90s? Wiki say the heritage steam operation on Wutachtalbahn started around 1976.

 

You wouldn't be able hear them though as AI steam trains don't make a steam train sound.

 

Yes something else DTG put their collective heads in the sand about!