Hello everybody! I have a question (i looked for a previous thread about it but i did'nt found info about). I know in the real life the trains must be at the speed requested when they are passing at the signal with the restricted speed indication. Here in TSW the restricted speed start from the track switching (wich is why the speed needs to be reduced). In the following picture i show what happen in TSW. The approaching signal want 60km/h immediately,but TSW (on the right of the picture) will check the speed only 577m after this point. I noticed,if you are following the signal,sometimes you will arrive at the stations too late because i suppose TSW is calculating the time from the track switch. I hope i was clear Any comments about? Thanks
TSW is not really set up to display signal speeds, particularly dynamic ones, on the HUD so it will only show you upcoming track speeds on the HUD (which means the limit will start at the beginning of the junction rather than the signal). Follow the signal speeds as they have priority. The timetable is set up to mimic real life. It takes into consideration signal speed reductions because it is using timetable information directly from DB. It is possible to arrive at stations on-time when following signal speed limits (most of the time, anyway) but it will definitely be harder. Cheers
^This. Even the Germans can have trouble keeping a busy section on time, especially if one little thing upsets a crowded schedule (like, say, a door malfunction at a stop- that five minutes' delay can ripple out through everything). Even bad weather, which causes trains to accelerate less quickly, and brake more gradually, can throw things off during peak hours. In other words, obey the safety signals, try to keep on schedule but don't shoot yourself if circumstances put you behind.
Perhaps some day DTG will program the game to display Zs3 limits on the HUD. Unfortunately at this time, it does not. Cheers
If TSW is anything like TS20XX, then the speed limits displayed in the HUD are permanently attached to sections of track, as are the numbers on the physical speedboards. That wouldn't permit variable speeds like e.g. Zs3's. If that is indeed the case, it would take a rework of the program- tying the HUD instead to the internal system which does, after all, know how fast the train ought to be going and calls the player on speeding and signal violations. - - no matter how useful it would be if the speedometer bug started dropping at a 1000 Hz magnet in accordance with the required braking curve.
For the red pindrop on the HUD, yes. But ever since they introduced LZB into the game, there has been a second, blue pindrop which displays signal limits. Currently, it is only used by LZB and TVM, but since it is attached to signal information instead of track information, it might be possible for that functionality to be backported to Zs3 signals eventually. Well, of course anything is possible; what I mean to say is that since the underlying system is there and Zs3 signals already dynamically display limits, it might be easier than having to reconstruct the German signalling infrastructure from the ground up. That is what I would hope for, at least. Cheers
Back to the OP: the 577m displayed in the HUD is telling you that there is a painted, permanent 60 km/h limit sign (called an Lf7 in DB terminology) 577m ahead. The HUD "doesn't know" about the independent 60km/h light signal (called a Zs3). But the game does, and I suspect that if you pass that signal over 60 you will get a pink speedo bar for speeding.
Thank you all for the comments. In my opinion you are all writing correct things but,for example in the situation on the picture attached,if i will pass the signal at 80km/h instead 60km/h,no penalties will be applied...
The HUD limit is working always well as far as I have seen as it tells you where the next speed limit is placed, no matter if it´s due to a switch, signal or speed board. I always use it while driving and I have reported many wrongly set speed restrictions thanks to it. In the german signals there are some important considerations to remember, as it´s not really easy to understand them some times. General rules regarding speed indications: On top of signal head the limit at the switches after the signal is indicated (white color). Below the signal head the limit after the next signal is announced (yellow color). Signal mast can include a rectangular white board with the limit applicable at the signal itself. Signal mast can include a triangular orange board for regular speed limit announcements. Note: the top of signal head board can be a light board to display different limits depending on which route is set on the switches or just a plate if the same limit is always used. General rules regarding signal aspects: The vertical yellow-green aspect announces a speed reduction after the signal. The diagonal yellow-green aspect announces a standard 40 km/h limit after next signal. The diagonal yellow-green aspect with a speed limit below announces limit after next signal. The flashing green aspect indicates "proceed and expect speed reduction after next signal". Signal can also include the announced speed limit in a board below it. If no board is included then the announced limit is 160 km/h (this is mainly used at the LZB lines). Even if the top of signal head boards indicate a speed limit which will be only applicable when passing the switches after that signal you should anyway adjust train speed in advance and pass the signal itself at the displayed limit. This prevents overspeeding if the switches are very close to the signal. In your picture you have: - Main signal with vertical yellow-green so you are expecting a speed reduction after that signal - Triangle on top announces a 60 for the switches area (the ones the main signal is also announcing with its aspect) - The distant signal with diagonal yellows announces a stop at the signal after this one Therefore this combination is telling you that you are going to stop at a siding or platform and the switches to enter to that track (located 577 m ahead of you, as displayed in the HUD) are limited to 60 km/h. But up to those switches your current 110 km/h limit is still in force. You would need to approach them under the PZB 1000 Hz magnet restriction (85, 70 or 55) if you had your PZB activated. That´s why it´s important to use PZB always in game as it would reduce any overspeeding risk at the switches and it adds a much realistic operational behaviour to simulation as well. A superb signals guide can be found here: German Railway Signals - Sub Site Map (sh1.org) Cheers
Now, if I understand it correctly, under PzB one would still have to brake down to under 85 (70, 55) within 23 seconds of passing the signal... although in the OP pic, he's already at 79, so all he needs worry about is shedding 19 km/h in the next 577 yards (and acknowledging). But I did NOT know that there was a difference between rectangular and triangular speed signals! * I had never read that before anywhere. Thank you! -------------------------------- However, I don't believe you're correct about the in-game HUD reflecting Zs3s. Sometimes they coincide, if the train's upcoming route runs it over points etc with a hard track limit, but it's not the signal that the HUD is reading (and why the HUD upcoming-speed reading can sometimes change unexpectedly, if points up ahead have moved). I get the feeling that TS, being British, was originally set up in the context of the UK route-speed system. __________________ *But how does one tell them apart at night?
Yeap, HUD reads the track only, not the signal aspects. But in the track you have invisible points which define the speed limit from that location onwards (until a new limit is found). If the signal aspect is giving a 40 km/h (yellow-green), which is the typical restriction for a switch, what you find in HUD is the speed limit for the switch itself. If a speed board is found then the track has the speed limit displayed on the board assigned to the invisible limit but it´s always the track, not the trackside elements themselves was is being read by HUD. For that reason you frequenty can have invisible speed limits being updated at the switches area while you pass it or where no signals or boards exists or speed limits that don´t match with the displayed boards or that are simply ignored by HUD. Also there are some locations where a much higher speed limit is detected by HUD. For instance in Jamaica (LIRR route) there are 90mph limits but you always get the most restrictive speed indication ahead of you at the HUD, so normally the 15 mph or 35 mph for the platforms. That 90 is the real max track speed the line has but as soon as other lower limit becomes in force (due to a signal aspect for instance) HUD displays it instead. Another example is the downhill from Sand Patch. After starting the descent you will see a peak in the speed log caused at a board that displays 35 while the real track limit is 25 there, so you will overspeed if not using the HUD speedometer, as there you will notice the red overspeed indication. This is a bug and reflects how HUD works quite well, as the limit is indeed announced by HUD, but very shortly only as the invisible 25 is just around 20 yards passed the 35 board location. Cheers
I have no words... thanks for your exhaustive answer! Honestly i thought I knew almost everything about German signage, but now I understand many other things. Now it all fits. The link you attached is very interesting and I will read it carefully. Thanks a lot.
Is that route-specific? I'm more used to seeing track speeds on the HUD even though the upcoming signal speed is lower. I think there was a spot in Oakville Subdivision where the HUD showed 60 even though you had travel much slower for a switch. I didn't know the route well enough, and can't remember if there was a signal or sign with the restricted speed or not, but the HUD itself didn't warn me. I don't know if that's a specific bug with OSD, but it would have been nice for the HUD to have indicated the lower speed when leaving the main line.
This certainly isn't the case for most routes, as an example HMA may have realistic service numbers, but some of the timings are pretty far from reality. As a random example, ICE708 departs Munich Hbf at 1054 in game, in reality it departs at 1114. The timings throughout most services (disregarding departure time) differ from reality, by up to a few minutes in places.
Yes. All routes have their max track speed. Sand Patch is giving also a momentary 60 during the descent to Cumberland. Regarding Oakville I don´t know. But I recently reported a case at Bayview Junction where the switches had a 15 and the gantry signals were apparently not announcing that restriction. Sometimes it´s hard to detect such errors but if you find something wrong at least let devs know about it. Checking the speed log (ESC menu) helps a lot to detect speed inconsistencies as there you have the whole speed profile history up to the point where you are. If you see sudden peaks on the permitted speed there is something potentially wrong there. That´s how I detected the error in the Sand Patch descent to Cumberland as I always overspeeded in the same area with all services and I couldn´t find the reason for it. It was a invisible 25 speed limit just after a 35 speed board. The left marked peak is the board. The right marked area is the invisible speed indeed applied after that point. It´s still like that in current game release so be aware of that board error guys if, like me, you don't drive with the HUD speedometer or just with the HUD next limit announcement. By following the track boards you will run several miles above the allowed speed limit without knowing it. Error is located at milepost 206. Cheers
