Spirit Of Steam - Is It Now Worth It?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by OldVern, Jul 17, 2022.

  1. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    But.... the window sounds are different .

    Those trains to me are three nigh on identical fridges with a different door sound and the shelves are ages different for your groceries
     
  2. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I guess the argument is that some people WILL know the difference and get "offended" if those differences aren't in game.
     
  3. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    These are literally the same units, as in the Coastway and the Brighten Mainline originate from the same damn place, and probably are using the same pool of power. There isn't gonna be any differences outside of standard ones you get unit per unit, and we both know DTG don't go that deep with the differences between units.
     
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  4. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well they are both Bossman locos as they supplied the Jubilee and 8F models for SoS. Obviously nothing is for certain but given Bossman is one of the topmost regarded producers of steam traction in TSC, I'm inclined to go with their numbers rather than how DTG crunched it up in Simugraph. Again we don't know what oversight Bossman had once they handed the model over. It's also immediately apparent the Bossman locos in TSC don't go into a squirrelly wheelslip when you crack the regulator more than 10% from stationary.
     
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  5. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    They do that in bad weather from what I remember, and in good weather it seems they tend to have way too much grip. The wheel slip behavior is actually what makes me vastly prefer Smokebox's products, those feel right based on everything I've heard and seen.
     
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  6. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    I think it's just a case of big wheels = wheelslip
     
  7. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    None of which is particularly relevant...?
    I usually try to find out what's accurate before having a go at someone for being wrong, your mileage might vary
     
  8. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    Well nothing you say has any relevance to me.
     
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  9. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Good for you. You'll notice I wasn't even talking to you though
     
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  10. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    Wonder if they modeled what would happen if you turned the sand on mid wheel slip?
     
  11. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    I've watched quite a few vids with steam engines. A few things to note...

    Wheelslip quite a common thing, especially when pulling a lot of weight!

    Safety valve again quite a common thing to hear, most vids I've watched the safety is open when standing at a platform or siding! Note that the safety remains open for quite some time after setting off.

    On a fast run the fireman never stops feeding the fire!
     
  12. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well further to my research, fired up ancient Simudrive and set up a Jubilee on Load 7 out of Grosmont towards Goathland. On the initial 1 in 50 with 100% regulator and 55% cutoff speed balanced at 15 MPH. When the gradient stiffened to 1 in 48, I increased cutoff to 60% and speed dropped to 13 MPH. It was difficult to evaluate pushing the cutoff further forward as Simudrive has a nasty habit of removing you from duty if it deems you are using too much cutoff, though it doesn't say how much is too much.

    So interesting that we now have 3 sims all with slightly different performance characteristics for a Jubilee and Load 7 on a 1 in 50 gradient. As mentioned earlier what we really need is a real life log from a trip behind a Jub up a 1 in 50/2% gradient. However the one thing Simudrive also didn't manifest was wheelslip, starting on a 1 in 131 rising gradient with 50% throttle and 75% cutoff.
     
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  13. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    Vern, it's LMS and it's a Jub. They go much faster backwards, bit like an Italian tank. :D ;)
     
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  14. roysto25

    roysto25 Well-Known Member

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    Now that last comment was just not PC
     
  15. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    My PC cannot talk or make comments.
     
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  16. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    How do you run diesels on this route boys ? Tried scenario planner, only choice the two steam loco's.
    This rubbish is really doing my swede in now :mad: :mad: :mad:
     
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  17. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    You need to enable “off the rails mode” when creating the scenario.
     
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  18. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    Never heard of that sorry Lamplight. Better pop back in and have a quick look. Thanks very much for your help again. :cool: :cool:
    EDIT: Don't see an option for "off rails mode".
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2022
  19. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I’m just relying on my memory here - it’s been ages since I created a scenario. When you’re in the planner on the screen which lists your created services for the scenario, there should be an option on the lower end of the screen saying something like “set scenario details” or similar. Open that and it’ll have a tickbox for off the rails mode.
     
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  20. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    If you don’t see it in there Mike I’ll take a look later, but basically ticking Off The Rails brings up all the consists so you can rag a Class 40 or Wizzo along between Crewe and Liverpool. Might be worth checking that Creators Club thing, see if somebody has dropped one in there.

    Back to the route itself. First daylight run into Lime Street. The lighting in the game is badly letting it down, running down through the steep sided cutting just black shadowy gloom even mid morning. None of the fine detail which I’m sure the route and scenery authors put in to this iconic location is really visible. At least I managed to stop without hitting the buffers. Still rather sceptical that a Jubilee and Load 5 would be running an all stations stopper originating at Chester from Runcorn into Liverpool. Give us some raggy old LMS coaches and a tank loco or 2P/4MT to run these with.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2022
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  21. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Just did a "test run" on this... seems a bit cackhanded to me...
    Make your scenario and give it a name
    Make your first train and give it the details
    Then down the bottom you get an option for "Scenario details" (C button on PC) and in there you get "off the rails" mode

    OTR is supposed to be to run any train on any system you like, so you can run electric trains on non electrified lines or big american diesels down tube lines etc
     
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  22. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    You can set Off The Rails before making your first train.
     
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  23. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Just checked back and didn't see that first time.
    Yup just before adding services, but after setting scenario name
     
  24. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    Thanks buddy i found the scenario details option, lower right. Sorry i was looking for "off rails" option before.
    I am denser than London Smog and thicker than Onion Gravy :D :D
    BUT......................... Scenario loaded, but everything was locked up, followed by.................
    [​IMG]
     
  25. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Without a doubt this route needs a loco DLC or 3 to pad things out and take the route to the next level.
     
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  26. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

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    Out of interest, Vern, what cut-off did you use on the TSW Jubilee out of Man Vic? My experience of the TSW Jubilee is that the power it can generate is very heavily dependent on boiler pressure, and increasing the cut-off makes very little difference. As a result, I’ve found the way to get the best out of it is start in about 50% cut-off, then almost immediately reduce the cut-off to the maximum cut-off which will keep the boiler pressure as high as possible (just short of lifting the safety valves), which is usually somewhere around 17% (with small adjustments to keep the boiler pressure where you want it).

    It’s a pretty annoying way of driving because it means as as soon as you shut off for a station or speed restriction, the safety valves lift, so logically it doesn’t feel like the best way of maximising use of the available steam pressure. However, with the TSW Jubilee it’s the best way I’ve found to drive. I’d be interested to hear what happens if you try that coming out of Man Vic.
     
  27. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Think I was using 60% which looks as if it might be too much. Ironically all the tutorials tell you to put the locos in full forward (75%) to start but I almost never do that in the other sims. I too have noticed the power dropping off rapidly as pressure drops, that 0.9% climb up Runcorn viaduct is another case in point. I will try as you suggest and unless the scenario specifically mandates it to pass a step, go nowhere near 75% cutoff.
     
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  28. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to jump in here but I've noticed it's a battle to keep a balance between maintaining steam pressure and speed on a gradient. If I close the regulator the blower goes to 100% and the boilers upto pressure in seconds? But I can't seem to operate the blower manually. Once I open the regulator the blower stops again! At a guess wouldn't a engineer use the blower at low speeds?
     
  29. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    You need to select manual firing in Settings to get control of the blower and dampers. For sustained fast running both dampers need to be fully open (M & Ctrl-M) to keep pressure up. The blower tends to be used at stations to add extra draft when the regulator is closed, or when passing through tunnels to prevent blowbacks.

    NB: Despite the term manual firing, you cannot control if/when the fire(wo)man adds coal to the firebox or water to the boiler if the latter is even occurring.
     
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  30. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for sharing this. I’m getting much better performance out of the Jubilee now. It’s only now I realized my kettle was constantly running out of breath! :D
     
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  31. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Wonder if this is something DTG will be looking at?
     
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  32. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, I have experienced blowback on tsc. Also on tsc It would seem a bit more realistic as you can add coal to the fire and produce more steam. Also I noticed when you add water to the boiler in tsc the rate you produce steam starts to decrease. Like the water would stop boiling In a kettle if you added some cooler water.

    Thanks.
     
  33. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Tried a run with lcyrrjp's settings and yes, was still blowing off with 100% regulator and 17% cutoff accelerating so plenty of steam in reserve. (Both dampers fully open too).

    The only issue I encountered, same as with the 8F, at low cutoff I started to get the wheelslip indication flickering on and off above 60 MPH and was eventually on continually when I briefly reached 75 MPH before shutting off power.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2022
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  34. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    Yes I found if I just leave the regulator wide open and play with the reverser I can pick up speed quite well, even on a grade.

    I took the jubilee upto 100 miles an hour slammed it in reverse which you would expect to cause a derailment. I've found a better emergency brake!
     
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  35. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    The wheelslip occurs in a small range of speeds around 60 mph to 70 mph over a wide variety of regulator settings. Raising the cutoff above 25 or below 18 will help but lowering the regulator will also be needed to completely get rid of slipping. It doesn’t appear to be acting realistically in that range of speeds. Once above around 70 mph the regulator can be raised again (and the cutoff lowered if it had been raised) without as much slipping but with a very low cutoff you don’t need 100% regulator to get enough steam pressure in the cylinders it seems. I have no idea if a real driver would keep the regulator wide open but I’ve found I don’t have to a lot of the time.
     
  36. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Physics definitely needs a tune up!
     
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  37. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    It needs a lot of other issues fixing too, such as trains exploding off the track when you couple the power to the wagons, the constantly empty conflats, the SPADs, the service priorities, coal texture poking through the wagons, AI not chuffing, intermittent wind noise in the cab etc. All fixable but no news on any of it yet. Looking at all of the issues it does look like the route is a bit of a disaster but even with all the fixes outstanding it is still a fantastic experience for TSW when you can complete a service.
     
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  38. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Too true. There are some very captivating scenarios - currently working through one in Journey mode where you prep a Jubilee, go over and fetch an ECS from Edge Hill for Lime Street. Have uncoupled with a message about taking the engine over to the turntable after the departure has left. Waiting to see if that's it or I get another train to work.

    It would be nice if someone from DTG popped into this thread to acknowledge the issues and when we can expect some fixes. The SPADS in particular coming out of Basford Hall, whether AI or a rogue invisible signal, are preventing at least two Journey mode 8F runs from being completed.
     
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  39. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I don't have SOS but the way DTG seem to ignore the mentioned things that need fixing is disappointing.
     
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