Spirit Of Steam Post Release Feedback. The Definitive Thread

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by chieflongshin, May 31, 2022.

  1. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Thanks for the continued feedback - I think what we can see here is that there is a vast variety of feedback, from people approaching this from all angles of interest and expectations; but all constructive, and things we can use in future.
     
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  2. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    It seems like not buying it was the right choice. I'll reevaluate next year.
     
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  3. royalscot#3684

    royalscot#3684 Well-Known Member

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    It is potentially an excellent route but it's in alpha at the moment.

    I'm just fed up with software developers charging people to test their unfinished products. No other industry treats its customers like this .
     
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  4. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

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    I like the steam loco so far. Only feedback would be to make the auto fireman context aware or atleast have some sort of cut off on when to fire. The constant safety valve is annoying to say the least but driving the locos is fun.
     
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  5. tbaac

    tbaac Well-Known Member

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    I have only had a brief look so far but am loving it.

    I know that the TSW2 HUD is a divisive issue but I much prefer it to the TS1 HUD, and the additional details in the bottom left for steam are sooo good, and much more useful than the F5 details in TS1 imho (maybe with the addition of vertical bars for coal and water once the manual fireman is available).

    The Raildriver functionality is really nice, thanks for that.

    The route seems really nice, very nice locos, but yeah, track joint sounds would greatly improve the immersion I think.

    Thanks.
     
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  6. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    In passenger mode I'm getting the annoying sound cut out with every major stutter, once I start hitting high speed, every 15 seconds or so, stutter and sound cut out.

    I really do hope they find a way to solve these stuttering/pausing issues, it's ruining my enjoyment of TSW2 completely!
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2022
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  7. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Yes i agree the a.i sound is currently more an immersion braker than a "wow" experience.
    A steam engine passing under power should freeze your blood ;).

    Well a quick and easy way to enhance the a.i start moving would be if the a.i driver uses the open cylinder cocks when start driving. This way it wouldnt be silent.
     
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  8. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

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    Can anybody help me with doing a hill start with the coal train in the journey mode? I have experimented with reverser 75, 50 and 35 with various regulator trims but I always end up getting wheel spin and the train not moving at all. Any tips will be appreciated. TIA!
     
  9. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It's not a matter of hardware, but a matter of trains. Simply put, DTG (after MUCH criticism in the past) made the command decision not to fill out a timetable with absurdly wrong locomotives. Since on release there are just a passenger express and mainline heavy freight engine, there are no locals. Conscious choice.

    We can only hope that DLC follows within a reasonably short interval, to fill things up.
     
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  10. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    If this is one of the services which has mineral wagons (unfitted) adjacent to the locomotive, it's a known bug. The workaround is to pull the brake release cord on each of the hoppers.
     
  11. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

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    No, this one starts at the station. But let me try this.
     
  12. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

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    solicitr , I can't find the brake release chords on the wagons. Can you post a screenshot of it?

    Edit: I found the hand brakes. I applied and released manually but unfortunately didn't help at all :(

    Edit 2: Definitely something to do with the wagon setup, I tried reversing to see if that works atleast but that gave me a wheel spin as well. I checked all the wagons and their brakes are released. Guess this is one more bad journey mode scenario :(
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2022
  13. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Hey Ravi - this tutorial video may help. We have a section on hill inclines and starts, which you may find useful. We also went through the mineral wagons workthrough last night so you may find this segment of the stream helpful.
     
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  14. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

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    OMG! This is the exact scenario I was stuck at. Now I see what I have to do. Thank you :)
     
  15. Veryfatbloke

    Veryfatbloke Member

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    Tonto62
    I hope you don't mind me quoting your message in this forum but I thought it deserved a wider audience.

     
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  16. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, sorry to bother you again, but are the adverse signals actually caused by other traffic or just the "go via" point being marked as a do not dispatch beyond this point? As that makes a huge difference, if it's the go via point it's always the same signals each run that are not clear, if it's traffic is much more unpredictable.

    Definitely seems a bit more interesting that what I first imagined though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2022
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  17. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    Okay I've played it for a bit now. I'm really enjoying it so far, the feeling of taking the Manxman up to 90 mph with a Jubilee while keeping a constant eye out for signals and whethere you'll have enough pressure for the coming climb is just fantastic. The route really does succeed in engaging me and giving me the feeling of being in the era of steam. For me it was definetely worth the money. The scenarios are also good fun and feel more original than the scenarios we've had on modern routes recently. The new wheel blur and particle effects are also a huge step forwards. I genuinely never thought I'd see steam interacting with bridges and hanging in the slipstream of an express train that just headed through a station.

    There are of course also things that I feel can be done better, most of which I already noticed on stream, though while actually playing it is less pronounced than on stream.

    Firstly the auto fireman and the safety valves. While driving you don't notice it too much, but at stations or especially while shunting, it's very annoying.

    Then there's the scenery. It's definetely way better than it looked on stream, but the route is also at the bottom when compared to the routes from the past year or so in my opinion. Here and there it feels a bit empty and some of the textures just don't quite look right. That being said, around stations, junctions and towns it's a lot better than in between these points of interest.

    The track joint sound is indeed missing, a fix should hopefully come soon, enough has been said about that.

    The amount of services is also a bit of a let down. I do agree on the decision of not taking the Jubilee to far out of realistic services, but feel like the 8f could have done a bit more. Just some more freight would have been nice. In addition to that, on the Jubilee, I miss things like newspaper/mail trains, and perhaps an express fitted parcels train (as shown on the picture below), though I don't know how frequent and appropriate these would exactly be for the route. I just kind of like these kind of services for some reason (I think it's due to their more unique and special nature and long history of being the most important services on the railway, only to become a part of history relatively suddenly in the latter half of the 20th century). I do however think that DLC's for this route are inevitable and will bolster the services in the future. This DLC would be really nice, and my (admittedly somewhat high hopes) are for a loco fit for local passenger workings, a loco for pick up freight services, and perhaps a pacific type loco for the top expresses.

    [​IMG]
    Ex-LMS 5XP 4-6-0 Jubilee class No 45684 'Jutland' is seen with steam escaping from its safety valves at the head of a down express parcels train circa 1957.

    The bouncing on the tracks is also nice, but a little over the top at times. I like looking at the wheels just rolling over the track from time to time, but the bouncing can be so extreme that the weels look like they've fully left the track. However, I do still really like the heavy bouncing, really makes you feel like you're on the footplate of a real steam engine going 60+ mp/h.

    I'd also love an extra camera cab view, which is the same as the current head out of window, but slightly further so you can look past the glass bit when it's covered in rain or snow. An engineer with those racing glasses on would also be a great sight to see!

    Lastly I just think it would be nice to see the Mk1 BG on more services. The only one I've seen so far is just standing around in Crewe. Especially on the long distance express services I think it would make sense to see a BG in addition to just a BSO.

    Those were my main gripes, most of which have also been adressed by other players and/or DTG themselves. I haven't seen much talk about newspaper, mail and express parcels trains for the Jubilee though, so I really wanted to add that point as these types of services in my eye are very characteristic for the steam era. That being said, I really am enjoying SoS thusfar and will definetely get my moneys worth of gameplay hours out of it. I'm looking forward to some more gradual improvements and loco add-ons for SoS, aswell as the future of steam in TSW (for example German routes like the Moselstrecke in the 70's ;)). I hope the rest of you all can also enjoy this DLC or something else and wish you a lot of fun!
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2022
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  18. royalscot#3684

    royalscot#3684 Well-Known Member

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    They don't need to fill out the timetable with historically inaccurate trains. The 40 is a dual purpose locomotive and operated on the route from 1958. The 101 DMUs appeared in 1956 and worked around most of Lancashire and Cheshire in their time. Jubilees were express locomotives but were put on locals when that's all was available. Even 8Fs were put on passenger services in emergencies. It wasn't like today with strictly dedicated pools. MPDs tried to allocate appropriate locos but railway lore and history is full of tank engines on class 1s and express locos on local services. Many Jubilees ended their days on three coach locals on the Great Central.
     
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  19. Schuppenheizer

    Schuppenheizer Member

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    I love the addon and look forward to future dlcs.
    14 wagons up the hill is not the easiest thing in the game. I really love it.
    the locomotives are so impressive, the scenery is almost unimportant to me.
    A big thank you to you guys!!!

    Everyone rates it differently, but a few things should be improved:

    - the boiler pressure and the automatic fireman:
    I think with such a big loco the boiler reacts too fast to the driving style. The pressure drops really quickly. The fireman is shovelling coal into the firebox all the time (unfortunately also downhill at maximum boiler pressure shortly before the stopping point!), but the behaviour of the boiler does not change. I switched off the automatic fireman, but I was still able to drive everything. On the one hand there´s no possibility for a strong driving style and on the other hand I always reached maximum boiler pressure shortly after I stopped and safety valves started blowing.

    - Maybe there should also be a longer delay between regulator and cylinder pressure.

    Sadly, it follows:
    - All the time safety valves at standstill are very annoying, I would like to give the boiler some water.

    - AI trains always come towards you with the regulator closed and the light red.
    Unfortunately, this also means you are overtaken by quietly rolling express trains, even though you are very busy with the goods train.

    - The Jubilee unfortunately makes choppy noises when looking out while driving, influenced by the rocking of the loco. This is better on the 8F.

    - There is a task where you have to release the brakes manually on the wagon, unfortunately there is no hint for that. It really took a while to find that.

    Something else about the feedback I read: For me, the chuffs on the footplate are ok. This is not the loudest noise on the loco while driving.

    p.s. please explain the big old signals again in more detail.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2022
  20. argh.bailey

    argh.bailey Member

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    I've dived in and from day one have tried to drive with as minimal HUD as possible and so far it has been a great experience. Some obvious bugs but nothing that has stopped me going back for more. Some things that I have noticed particularly with regards to trying to go HUDless that I haven't seen mentioned above.
    • The brake handle is a bit too sensitive when used via the keyboard, the smallest quickest tap results in at least 5% of movement which depending on the ejectors can result in quite a severe application.
    • The reverser movement starts too slow and the acceleration makes it a bit frustrating to use.
    • The drivers eye view on the 8F could do to move back slightly, only 6 inches or so, as this would just allow you to glance at the pressure gauge without changing view or bringing up the HUD
    • The drivers eye view on the Jubilee is quite a bit too low meaning the brake gauge is relatively too high to see and be useable, also the same as the 8f where it could move back also just enough so you could glance at the pressure gauge.
    • Both locos could do with a additional step of 'lean out but further' particularly in the rain
    • The tender lamp is a great feature and adorable but currently has the brightness of 1000 suns and seems to add as much light in broad daylight as it does in the lime street cutting. This get compounded when the Mr Jitters (fireman ;-)) opens the firehole door and the screen is then mostly just too bright.
    • The 8f seems to suffer wheelship & sparking if you try to drive it too fast but I was thinking this might be intentional?
    • The coal shovel noise is waaay to quiet
    • The locos seems to lack a bit of ambient hiss and just a little bit of steam from the odd leak here and there
    • Following the progression of the 'journey' the first time you get given a loaded unfitted freight is in the rain on a 1% grade, boy did I have fun with that one but it seems a little harsh.
    • I managed to get the '3' camera into the brake van and this gave a delightful view also very handy for a cheeky brake assist :)
    In summary, some silly bugs but very promising start. More like this please.
    Screenshot 2022-06-01 12.40.28.png
     
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  21. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Another thing to say here, nice Dtg you did an advance brake modeling. In this case the brake shoes are animated and the wagons need special handling because the unbraked types. Well done!

    I hope you never cancle this approach because of some "unpatient customers", which cant get their trains moving.

    So we have the advanced braking behaviour for us routes and long trains, for uk routes with vacum & air , and for german routes the p/g/r.

    Nice features for tsw and a huge step up!
     
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  22. Suryaaji#2369

    Suryaaji#2369 Well-Known Member

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    I almost got a heart attack when doing 60 mph with an 8F and not realizing that I'm pulling a string of loaded unfitted freight wagon weighing at 600+ tons. Those things indeed need special handling, i believe unfitted trains only allowed up to 25 or 30 mph back in the day.
     
  23. argh.bailey

    argh.bailey Member

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    How much sand do we have, how long does it last and is the any indication if it has run out?
     
  24. samfjsmith

    samfjsmith New Member

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    Excellent! Thank you!
     
  25. samfjsmith

    samfjsmith New Member

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    Excellent! Thank you!
     
  26. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    edit
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2022
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  27. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Yes unfitted trains were restricted to 25mph and partially fitted to 35mph from my information.
     
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  28. argh.bailey

    argh.bailey Member

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    Haha yeah I had almost the exact feeling approaching a red signal from 500yds doing 45mph :) It cleared about 30 yards ahead of me as I was still doing about 40mph with the brakes full on. Great fun.
     
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  29. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Not in that period. Crewe South had about six briefly from 1958, they were gone by July 1958, from what I can see they didn't work into Liverpool, I would happily be proved wrong. It wasn't then until the mid 1980's when Longsight started getting an allocation of them. Chester had an allocation but they wouldn't have been used in Liverpool to Crewe services. Allerton was the local DMU depot for the Liverpool area, it had Derby class 108's for local services and a small fleet class Derby class 115 suburban four car units for Liverpool to Manchester fast trains. I think steam would have given way to EMU's.

    I guess a class 101 could have been used on the Chester to Liverpool via Frodsham service before it was withdrawn.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2022
  30. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I totally didn't do 50-60 while playing the worst winter of all scenario :D (if you haven't tried it, I'd recommend it, it's got a nice twist and makes good use of the fact you can get up and walk around. It feels very 'old skool TSW' in that regard).
     
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  31. dosto762

    dosto762 Well-Known Member

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    I'll be waiting until a few more SOS DLCs are released before I buy anything
     
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  32. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

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    IMO its a nice try, but i hoped for a more polished product. Too much of an unfinished feeling. I hope it will still sell well, as it may bring more developpement, DLCs and so on.
    SoS will be probably a solid entry in DTG dlc list in.. one year... If other trains are layered, if obvious things are fixed.

    I have less hope for sounds changes, as they seems far more difficult to change in locomotives in TSW2 than they are in TSC.

    Finally about the routeitself, well its nicely execudeted and researched route, maybe not the most attractive but it's probably personal opinion.
     
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  33. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    As I mentioned in another thread, the Class 40 was not working the WCML in 1958; the first prototypes were in East Anglia running trials. The 101 would not be seen around Liverpool or Crewe for over two decades. And in any event, the rework required to backdate both of the in-game models from their 1980s fit to the 1950s would be tantamount to two new locomotives- which DTG were not going to make.

    (As an aside, note also that the original target year was 1955, in other words before pretty much any diesels existed in Britain at all; it was only bumped back to '58 because of the availability of research material)
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2022
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  34. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for taking time to write this fairly detailed breakdown, I think you and Lamplight managed to sell this route to me even in this period where I would not be overly happy to give DTG money.
     
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  35. peterchambers

    peterchambers Member

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    Jamie, Your comment is lacking. The amount of feedback ignored re SOUND is astounding and so is the lack of willingness to improve this key factor for those of us who have experienced all the sounds of a railway from working on one. You say sound is important but nothing is done about it nor explained why you cannot do anything about it if that is the case. Someone commented on another thread that perhaps you chaps have not experienced theses sounds though I doubt that. But TSW2 does give the impression that either sound does not matter or that railway sounds are foreign to the development staff. (I know there a re a few people to whom it does not matter.) The poor sound kills TSW2 for me and so it seems for many others. You really must as a team address this. Not the first time I have said this and it is why I spend all my time and money on TSC and not on TSW2 upon which I have spent alot of money which I now regret.
     
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  36. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    1) You are replying to JD, not Jamie. They are different gentlemen.
    2) If you had spent much time on these forums at all, you would know that the sound roadblock is Unreal Engine, which only has 32 sound channels compared to TSC's 256.
     
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  37. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this. Imagine going to watch the new top gun film and a channel is compressed, you have to do it through muffled earphones or you cant hear what someone is saying because the levels are wrong. People would be equally aggrieved.
     
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  38. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well then they really need to address that before taking TSW any further forward. One could argue an ambitious project like SoS where it was known in advance a myriad complex of sounds would be required, should not have been undertaken with that obstacle still in place. Mayhap at some point they need to bite the bullet and draw a line under TSW if it cannot be improved in the sound (and lighting, for that matter) department and revisit bringing some of the TSW elements into a revitalised and revamped TSC. I can only speak for myself but since buying some of the Bossman locos, reinstalling JT classics like the Kyle Line and Western Mainlines with an eye on North Wales Coast (all the way from Crewe to Holyhead) and Marches (from Newport to Shrewsbury), I haven't even touched TSW and doubt I will for the foreseeable future, even the stuff I do like.
     
  39. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Coming from an American who knows next to nothing about steam trains, I've been having a blast so far- I wasn't really interested and kinda grumpy that SoS was taking dev time from other projects, but now i'm really into!! I'm glad i took a chance on it.

    My only real gripe is sound- particularly the exterior sounds, track joints, and almost silent AI traffic sound (are they ghost trains lol).

    Sound has become my #1 TSW issue at this point. Slowly migrating from Series X to PC because I don't believe the horrific and ear-killing sound bug on Xbox will ever be fixed. It's much better already on PC, but overall the quality is very much a mixed bag.

    Others have gone into more detail, but want to add my voice to the chorus.
     
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  40. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    imo most movies have the music way too loud and the voices way too low in the mix
     
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  41. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    DTG are far more consistent, all the sound is to low or non existent, lol.

    Has anyone tried the RD with SOS, I'm curious at how it performs?
     
  42. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Glad to hear I could help and just FYI, I just had another 2.5 hours SoS session and still don’t regret the early purchase. Still, let me answer your previous question. I haven’t really touched the timetable yet (since I start with doing all of the scenarios) and in the scenarios, all of the adverse signals were due to traffic, not go vias. That being said, it was a bit of a mixed bag whether you got any. Some scenarios have quite a lot of them while others were pretty much green light runs. Particularly with freight trains, you will have to keep your guard up either way though. I just completed the worst winter scenario and stopping that only partially fitted train was a nightmare (in the best way :D).

    Having completed the worst winter scenario, I can now also tell you something about the challenge of freight trains along the entire route. Essentially, it’s 50-50. The southern half of the route is just flat (0.2-0.3%), straight track and will provide little challenge. The northern half is where it’s at though: Frequent changes between 1% up and 1% down will leave you little free time and you’ll have to manage your boiler pressure. Add the gradients and (partially) unfitted trains together and descending can be quite challenging as well. So even though the southern half was rather uneventful, I still had loads of fun.
     
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  43. fakenham

    fakenham Well-Known Member

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    Just wondering if the signalling is working realistically?. Haven't purchased as yet, but I think I will eventually.

    Just a bit concerned about the lack of AI and the fact that it may be clear signals all the way. I tend to get a bit bored if there's a lack of adverse aspects, but the complexity of operating a steam loco may overcome that.
     
  44. royalscot#3684

    royalscot#3684 Well-Known Member

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    There were certainly 101s at Crewe briefly in the summer of 1958.. I would be amazed if they weren't run on the the WCML or to Liverpool at least on testing.. They were not regarded as branch line stock at the time but viewed as outer suburban units. They certainly would not look out of place - and were much more likely to operate on this route than the GW route in the 1970s, the one DTG made them for.
     
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  45. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    No, DTG made them for the Leeds-Manchester run in the early 80s (NTP).

    Even if we to run a rather fictionalized 101, it would have to be completely rebuilt inside and out - practically a new train.
    Besides, I think DTG have made it pretty clear that they don't want any diesels in SoS.
     
  46. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Sorry to hear you think that, Peter (JD here, not Jamie). Just with regards to Spirit of Steam, it's worth checking through the Dev Diary and accompanying live stream (linked) to find out about how we record and mix audio (not being an expert myself, it's tough for me to pass judgement on the 'right' way to do things). It's been a key focus of this release in particular though, and a lot of time has gone into trying to make as authentic an experience as possible - the issue with audio, perhaps more so than perhaps any other part of simulation, is that it is very subjective, and one person's 'this is perfect' is another's 'it's missing XYZ'. There are areas we can improve though, obviously.

    For the benefit of the thread, the things we are investigating:
    • track joint audio was set as intended, but not audible (this should be fixed in the next update)
    • AI locos audio (seeing it may be with AI locos pulling wagons, but investigating)
    (I've seen feedback on other areas, but these are the initial focuses).
     
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  47. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    In a change to my stance I have just ordered it will go play and make up my mind as there is always the refund option....
     
  48. royalscot#3684

    royalscot#3684 Well-Known Member

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    The interiors weren`t changed all that much at all. I worked on one briefly in preservation. Lighting and seat covers were changed. Some had intercity style seating and some had first class removed All fairly inconsequential. There were a few exterior changes. Nothing that would be a major task to replicate I'm not even sure the one in the game is in fully refurbished state - it looks like one that's been partly back dated in preservation.

    You are absolutely right that DTG have decided firmly against diesels on this route - I just think that's a bonkers decision as both the 40 and 101 run fantastically well on the route and look the part.
     
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  49. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    The class 101 was literally at Crewe South for four or five months according to the Railcar association data! A class 108 as allocated to Allerton would be a far better choice if they were going for a DMU I would have thought.

    However why do we need to have diesels on the route there are plenty of other routes to drive them?
     
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  50. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    I have just done the two loco tutorials, didn't do the signalling but have thoroughly enjoyed it. I am surprised as seems to be a lot of negative feedback and no doubt some stuff needs fixing but this route has an X factor I would say similar to how I have found Cane Creek and Tees Valley my other two favourite routes. It does need more DLC so fingers crossed. I can't see a reason to refund it based on the track audio issue being fixed in due course.
     
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