Spirit Of Steam Stream Feedback Thread... And More Importantly...

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by mattwild55, May 19, 2022.

  1. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    ...get your dabbers at the ready!

    upload_2022-5-19_12-41-52.png

    I'm really looking forward to this, in case it wasn't obvious...
     
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  2. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Edit - deleted my buffet car gripe already in there.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
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  3. Aldarion

    Aldarion Member

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    definetly gonna play it ;)
     
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  4. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    One of the things I'm looking forward to is seeing if there's any sort of PIS implementation - chalk boards? Any other ideas?
     
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  5. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

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    It looks righteous. Can't wait to get my hands on it.
     
  6. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I only just caught the end of the Stream but yes, looking good.

    Including the Independent Lines behind/under the station is a nice touch.

    I will need to catch the rest of it on YT at some point.
     
  7. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    Saw a lot of people on discord comparing the scenery quality to that of Southeastern high-speed. I get the impression they don't like the route very much.
     
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  8. CrAzZyKiLLa

    CrAzZyKiLLa Well-Known Member

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    Well done to the team for all the efforts put into this route and brining steam into TSW2. My thoughts below, not to be taken has harsh critisism but as feedback to hopefully affect decision making, development and making already good DLC greater!

    1) My main thoughts are the sounds, particles and FPS look good! Also nice sounding tutorials and scenarios. Didnt hear any track joint sounds like in NTP but that may just be due to the section of track or speed. Also I would liked to of heard some more ambient station sounds at liverpool, for such a big station is sounded abit dead.

    2) Some pop in and view distance issues in some areas of scenary, hope this is just the console settings, I will leave my final thoughts untill I see this running on PC.

    3) My only disapointment is the lack of firing features, I hope this is something that will get a major focus as further steam loco's are developed. I know Matt mentioned that the AI fireman currently wasnt animated due to ongoing work, but I didnt see any firing tasks taking place at all, no stoking or injectors being used and wondered if this will be working for release, as that would affect the boiler pressure and driving experience greatly. I know this is the first ituration of steam in TSW and requires more development but I cant help but feel like its a step backwards from TS Classic.

    4) The number of services and what appeared to be a lack of AI makes the route feel less busy as I would of expected. I understand some players dont like the addition of additional or inaccurate services without the appropriate loco. But I feel the decision taken since SEHS to not add fictional services due to missing stock is something that is holding some routes back.

    I look forward to seeing more over the next week and finally getting my hands on it.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2022
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  9. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    The loco looked lovely but I don’t know much about steam so can’t really base my judgment on anything. Particle effects are nice and seeing them hit bridges was a nice touch. The driver leaning out of the cab was also a nice touch and the firebox looked very cool.

    Scenery looks bleak tbh, from what I understand the fences protecting the lines back in the day were further away than these days, but it really felt like things were missing in the scenery. Pop-in was bad too. Plus Xbox sound issue really turned me against buying it day one unfortunately.

    I’m really not feeling it after watching that stream, I’ll hold off buying until I see more/sound fix or there is a sale. It appears TSW will stay “gathering dust” for the foreseeable as Spirit of steam isn’t doing it for me.
     
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  10. Kobebeef

    Kobebeef Active Member

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    Great route, lucky for you pc and PlayStation users you will greatly enjoy it.
    But for us xbox users it was horrid as you all wittnesed with the sound
     
  11. rabid

    rabid Well-Known Member

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    Looks fantastic for the most part, but left me with many unanswered questions, such as:

    The route suffers from a lack of trackside details such as the paraphernalia of mechanical signalling (point rodding, signal wires & pulleys). Are these yet to be added? I was also expecting more lineside fencing to keep farm animals and the general public from wandering inadvertently onto the line.

    I wondered also if the jubilees have nameplates in the game, none were evident in the stream.

    I am curious about how the steam chest gauge works and why the needle is so darn shaky.

    Why does the jubilee safety valve seem to be permanently on when not using the throttle; is this realistic (surely not)?
     
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  12. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    They were?
    upload_2022-5-19_22-31-42.png
    upload_2022-5-19_22-32-57.png

    The needle's shaky because the steam chest pressure is constantly changing, due to it being used I think. And the safeties have nothing to do with the throttle, and everything to do with the boiler pressure, if it gets too high the safeties start, and it builds pressure while stationary (otherwise how would you get it going in the first place?).
     
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  13. Jannerdunk

    Jannerdunk Well-Known Member

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    Given that this game is meant to be the next step up from Train Sim Classic, I can't believe that there is no firebox or injector controls at all, even on the most basic level and we are stuck with an auto fireman. No risk of running out of water, or fire blowbacks. that was half the fun and challenge of running steam.

    It just seems another half effort on DTG's part. It does really feel at times that the game is being dumbed down. A big mistake on DTG's part as far as I am concerned.
     
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  14. VictoryWorks

    VictoryWorks Well-Known Member

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    I don't mind the lack of firing to be honest, after all that's not what the driver does, however if we can't give any indication of how much pressure we want then the automatic fireman needs to be on the case 24/7 and be aware of the timetabled stops, upcoming gradients and especially the final destination when you should be coasting in with a very small fire knowing you're going to be sat there a while - especially with the lack of running around "dead-ends" at Lime Street.
    Having the safeties blasting off constantly with no way for us to influence the boiler is going to get very annoying very quickly. I hope there is a way to manage it (the 3 position damper could be a way to influence the fireman's target?) but I would have thought that Matt would have shown us is if it was there?
     
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  15. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    Overall, I was very impressed with the stream. I really hope that Spirit of Steam continues, with improvements made over time, and loco DLC and future layering, and that this isn't a one-off thing that gets forgotten...
     
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  16. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    If you watched the stream, you would have known this was addressed. They are planning on adding manual fireman in a future update.
     
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  17. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    I have to wonder how much of those huge yard areas are useable track.
     
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  18. Kangaroo Conductor

    Kangaroo Conductor Active Member

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    I'm personally very impressed by what I saw yesterday night. It looks and sounds great, the features I want are there, and the atmosphere also hits where it needs to for me. I do not regret preordering it and I am already looking forward to additional steam loco dlcs and routes, also from other countries such as america and germany.
     
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  19. chessiet#4231

    chessiet#4231 Active Member

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    I agree with Kangaroo Conductor, I too am impressed with what has been shown on the live stream. Kudos to the DTG team for actually showing us what they have created and how it will work before release! I’m certainly glad that I pre purchased mine:)
     
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  20. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

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    I thought this too. Also, do we get moving points so we can gain access to those yard sections from the main line..
     
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  21. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    They were planning on fixing BS Incab signalling shortly after release, we've been waiting best part of 2 years for the enhanced Bakerloo timetable.

    There's a ever increasing list of stuff to be added/fixed to the game most of which I suspect will never happen and I don't think a manual fireman will be any different.

    I've not seen enough to make me open my wallet so far, and this has definitely detered me from a day 1 putchase
     
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  22. Coastway trainspotter

    Coastway trainspotter Well-Known Member

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    I’m guessing that was on TSC ?
     
  23. Fitz

    Fitz Well-Known Member

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    I was very impressed from what I watched last night, much better than what I was expecting.

    Only 2 things jumped out, 1) the scenery detail looks like it have been scaled back budget wise because of everything going on with the particle effects and physics of the steam loco. Its a fine tadoff off if so as the frame rate was gret overall.

    2) The route lighting overall looked very very dark. I know some routes in TSW are very dark like RSN and SPG. Everything was dark and the black levels crushed alot of detail in my opinion.
     
  24. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    Yes
     
  25. Kevinsim1046

    Kevinsim1046 Member

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    I’m still glad that I preordered, though there are a few things on my mind about the route.

    1) Very disappointed that it will not ship with a manual fireman. For me that is half the fun, and with an automatic fireman, we that much closer to just driving a diesel or electric locomotive, throttle and brake…how fun.

    2) I asked this question a few times on the stream, but it never got answered, and that is how much of the yards are accessible? After Matt mentioned that the 8F won’t really be used for shunting, I suspect that most of these yards are just going to be ‘scenery’, which would be extremely disappointing.

    3) I couldn’t really see it in the stream, and I tried asking, but again no answer….does the water in the gauge glasses move up and down? It looked like the water is steady, and always shows the exact level. This is super unrealistic as the water will move up and down based in regulator position, loco angle, bouncing and shaking of the loco. Since we can’t fire ourselves, this is not critical, but I really do hope they implement it.

    4) The route felt extremely quite. I would definitely prefer they fake a busy timetable thank have a pretty realistic timetable and then have next to no AI traffic on what is supposed to be a busy route.
     
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  26. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Now that is a slight concern, particularly for night driving where we know ambient lighting in the game is not at its best. Let’s hope some of the core updates will address that but given some of the existing routes can look like you’re driving over a layer of tar in certain light, even during the daytime.
     
  27. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    As many people criticise the scenery on the PC thread - please be reminded that this preview was on console. The render distcance on a decent PC is much better. So before some people draw too quickly conslusions and behave like their life will end thanks to TSW, sit back and wait for a PC preview. I think this will be much more pleasing for our PC masterrace eyes.
     
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  28. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    The HUD looks horrible. It breaks immersion because of the modern style, it is far to big and having an additional driving panel at the left side disturbs me. It could have ben far more modest. For TS at a time some alternative HUD layouts were available, which would fit better to the steam era atmosphere.

    Wil will buy it anyway but I really hope there will be a shunter soon. It is a waste of track of you have such huge yards and so few shunting activities.
     
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  29. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it is being dumbed down, because the driver doesn't do anything with the fire and injectors and given they've at least mentioned they want to do manual firing (I think it'll be for the next steam DLC, rather than as an update), should be evidence enough that it isn't being dumbed down. I'm a bit disappointed that there isn't the option (although in TS1 in most things it just amounted to clicking a button at the right time), but I think to say it's being dumbed down is a bit far.
     
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  30. Fitz

    Fitz Well-Known Member

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    From the way Matt was talking last night, I think it is very safe to say that there is a shunter loco DLC planned, if not already in the works, for this route right now.
     
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  31. Jannerdunk

    Jannerdunk Well-Known Member

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    Exactly,. Even railworks (original name for trainsim classic) had the ability to fire and water the engine. So much for the simugraph thing making the driving experience more realistic.

    If and it's a big if, a fireman feature gets added we will be 15 steam loco releases down the line and each will have to tested along with the associated route and timetable, creating a huge workload.

    I bet if you asked 100 people what they thought the process of driving a steam engine involved, most would mention adding coal.

    I can't help think that the real reason is due to console limitations that the fireman is not included. Are there even enough key combinations spare for firebox controls?

    By all means create a simple mode for new user's, but don't dumb the game down for everyone
     
  32. DTG JD

    DTG JD Staff Member

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    2. Lots of the yards are accessible. Not the entirety, but enough to get stuck into/lost in.

    3. The water is steady at this time.
     
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  33. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but if you ask 100 people what driving a modern train involves, I bet most (or at least a fair chunk) would say something along the lines of "just press a button and it goes".
     
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  34. VictoryWorks

    VictoryWorks Well-Known Member

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    Matt did mention during the stream that it was looking a lot darker on the stream than on the XBox/screen in front of him so it might not be as bad as it appeared
     
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  35. VictoryWorks

    VictoryWorks Well-Known Member

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    Re: the lack of fireman. I'm not so concerned about the lack of manual firing, after all a driver doesn't fire a loco themselves and I'm ok if DTG go down that route, however I am concerned that the AI fireman still seems to be blissfully unaware of the timetable and will pressure that boiler up to maximum constantly meaning all coasting and station stops will be accompanied by the ear splitting racket of the safeties constantly going off.
    If the AI fireman isn't bang on with their route knowledge then we at least need "add coal" and "add water" buttons so we can decide when it's time to reduce the fire or get the pressure down.

    I'm not sure how much we can influence it with the blower and dampers as Matt ran the whole route with the blower on 1/3 and the dampers fully open which likely didn't help.

    Overall I'm still really excited for it, there are some superb details they've included. Roll on the 31st!
     
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  36. fakenham

    fakenham Active Member

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    At 1:09:15 in stream - interesting and good news I think regarding signalling. I've a feeling they've got the signalling working realistically here - a distant signal was on, the next few signals were clear, then fianlly a signal was on in the same block - i.e if distant on be prepared to stop at any signal in the section, as the case here.
    If so, great work by the signalling team.
     
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  37. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    One of the challenges running steam locos in TSC or even MSTS was balancing cut-off/regulator and speed with steam consumption to avoid depleting boiler pressure. If there is always going to be a surplus of steam then the main challenge of driving such a loco is negated and the experience will be no better than when Trainz first had steam engines. Hopefully DTG can confirm some management of steam consumption will be a feature.

    Oh one more thing, not having watched the stream yet, did anyone notice steam heat effects from the stock or was this raised during the course of the presentation?
     
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  38. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Both steam pressure and steam chest pressure are monitored (and displayed on a new HUD) and Matt did say that people WOULD run out of steam (in fact that getting out of Lime Street, up the bank and still having steam pressure was an achievement) so those things are there, even if you don't have to spam the "fire me" button...
     
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  39. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, I forget the product is called "Route Sim World"
     
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  40. argh.bailey

    argh.bailey Member

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    I was a bit confused watching the stream about how the manual controls interact with the auto fireman. We can open the firebox doors, operate dampers & blower but is this just for show for now or does it have an impact? As you say, I hope the auto fireman operates with a degree of intelligence otherwise every station stop is going to be accompanied with the whoosh of the safety valves lifting. Although I also think it would equally detract if they never lift and this would also hide the excellent work the sound team seem to have done. I'm not sure I have seen another sim capture the deafening roar but without being a literal deafening roar - great job on that.

    Actually thinking about it, the auto fireman working to the expected timetable, building and letting the fire die down, really could add a dimension of reality where if you fall behind schedule or get stuck at a signal unexpectedly, then suddenly you aren't where the auto fireman was expecting you to be and now you start getting more frequent or near constant safeties lifting as you would expect. i.e if you were meant to depart at 10:00 and you're still sat in Lime Street at 10:05 for some reason, now the firemans hard work is realistically going to be going to waste, whereas coasting in at the end of a run, I would expect it to be pretty unrealistic to roar into a terminus on the red line.
     
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  41. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

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    I thought we were getting two locos with this route. I vaguely remember it was being part of a announcement some time back. But I can't find it and there was no mention of another loco in the stream yesterday.
     
  42. argh.bailey

    argh.bailey Member

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    There are two locos, they said they were going to do another stream focusing on the 8f soon, I think they said when but I can't remember.
     
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  43. lancpudn

    lancpudn Member

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    Just awesomeness guys [​IMG] The audio was top notch, Great job sound guys. I cant wait to try this using the PC surround sound system.
     
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  44. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

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    Ok. I missed that part. Hope it is as awesome as the Jubilee was.
     
  45. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    More realistic?

    Real drivers don't fire and water the engine, that's the fireman's job. I understand if some players want to make the experience extra challenging, but please don't claim it's about "realism."
     
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  46. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    i mentioned before how i thought that having to make TSW2 compatible with old consoles... and even the latest ones... reduced draw distance, limited memory, lack of buttons on the controller etc, could be holding back what this simulator could do.

    of course the console players jumped in saying it's thanks to them we have this simulator at all, and claim the console version is the same as the PC one... but those have never owned a PC, most have no idea other train driving sims even exist, as if it isn't in the closed console world it doesn't exist to them.
    so most don't have a clue how things are different in the PC version.

    it's a bit like people who have only ever used the keyboard to play a road driving sim, they think it's good, but if they tried a steering wheel, especially a force feedback one, they'd never go back to driving by tapping keys to wobble down the road.
     
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  47. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The 8f was mentioned repeatedly at the beginning and end of the stream...
    Next week's stream (will be announced later today or monday in the usual fashion) will be mostly about the 8f so we shall see (and head) her then
     
  48. VictoryWorks

    VictoryWorks Well-Known Member

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    Matt specifically mentioned in the stream that distants now operate correctly, as you say it's great to see
     
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  49. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I believe both Xbox and PS versions support the USB keyboard which gives you more functionality...
     
  50. VictoryWorks

    VictoryWorks Well-Known Member

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    I kind of used the word timetable erroneously, what I meant was the fireman should know where the loco is expected to run so it could be aware of gradients and stops and fire accordingly, not so much based on time but on "what's next?"
    It's a tricky proposition as footplate crews were a tight team and firemen would know how their drivers operated and what they needed from their loco on journeys they would perform together hundreds of times. Trying to replicate that with a player who can do who knows what at any moment is not going to be easy but at least if the AI fireman works to the route it gives us a fighting chance of having power when we need it and not getting deafened by the safeties when we don't.
     
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