Stainmore Edan Valley Route By Steam Sounds Supreme

The route no longer works after the TSC 2024 update. Watsawallybits FB page has figured out a fix.

From Whatawallysbits FB page.

An update on the Stainmore route crashing since the update.
Choccy identified the problem as the ALGB folder. I then worked out it was the signal scripts and narrowed it down to the ground and shunt signals (with help again from choccy).
Try this (using the updated version of TS2024)
Go to railworks\Assets\ALGB\LNW_Signals\MBScripts
Disable these files:
MB 2xShuntSig 2E.lua
MB 3xShuntSig 3E.lua
MB 4xShuntSig 4E.lua
MB 5xShuntSig 5E.lua
MB_LimitOfShunt.lua
MB Y ShuntSig 1E.lua
MBGnd_Sig.lua
MBRunGnd_Sig 2E.lua
(Rename them or put them in a "New Folder")
Try running each scenario.
Not all scenarios have been fully checked yet, so there could be other signal scripts causing problems

 

Yikes, this is good to know. I bought the route but have yet to install it. Do we know if the payware download is going to incorporate a working fix to make it easier for non-techie customers?

 

It's a workaround, not a fix. These signals will just be dead then, as they are shunting signals you can probably live with that until the issues are fixed.

 

Gotcha.

 

Someone on Steam contacted SSS about this and this is what they wrote.

I contacted SSS about my problems with the Route and they replied saying sorry but unfortunately the recent TSC update seems to have caused trouble with the route and their hope is that DTG will issue an update to sort out whatever is causing this All they know is that the Route worked without issue before the 2024 core update was released. I tend to agree because I have had this Route since it was first released for TS and it has ran perfectly right until recently.

I know DTG doesn't support 3rd party routes whether this is one of them or not I don't know.

 

DTG has nothing to do with SteamSoundsSupreme. Basically, as in any other game, the 3rd party is responsible for updating their DLC to be compliant with game updates. More than often, guidelines have been violated, and stuff only worked because TSC didn't care until it crashed mid-scenario. Though I don't know what exactly is the issue with these scripts - all I know is they are pretty old.

Or to put it in other words: Mods must adapt to the Game, not vice versa. Generally speaking.

We'll see what happens. As it only affects their signals, they should have a closer look why only these might not work. Set Debug to True and check LogMate. DTG can support them in this (but don't have to).

I'm sure a solution will come. Everything works so far, and the only thing that definitely not survived the core rework was the 373 Eurostar, because the developer disappeared (and DTG did try to contact him to get access to the source scripts.)

The fact that DTM locos are still working is pure luck, as they are using wrong blueprints in places. So if DTG overhauled that part of the code and introduced stricter assertions to check for validity, they would fail. People would be saying "but they worked all the time! DTG broke them". Though the fault is at DTM. Their stuff works because the code simply ignores the fault, as if the blueprint didn't exist. Just like removing signal scripts. Wondered why DTM locos are as loud inside the cab as outside? Because a Tunnel Occlusion blueprint is used instead of a Cab Occlusion one. On almost all their locos. Amateur work, rightfully bashed.

 

Yes, someone on Steam has said more or less the same thing.

 

The issue is with signal scripts written long, long ago by Mark Brinton for his free SR signals, who I haven't heard from for a long while so assume is no longer involved in Train Simulator. These scripts were adopted by another developer for his free L&NWR signals, which were then adopted in the Stainmore route, on which most development work was done by another chap who is no longer developing for Train Simulator. Steam Sounds Supreme only market it, and the gentleman who runs that business probably hasn't a clue about scripting of signals. To blame it on Dovetail without foundation is lame. To gleefully leave a broken product on sale is worse still!

As detailed above, a temporary "bodge" fix by disabling shunt signal scripts can be used - this method can be extended to other routes using similar signals (such as Southampton-Weymouth) by removing every instance of the previously listed ones and others I have identified. The full list of affected scripts, as far as I know is:
MB 2xShuntSig 2E.lua
MB 3xShuntSig 3E.lua
MB 4xShuntSig 4E.lua
MB 5xShuntSig 5E.lua
MB_LimitOfShunt.lua
MB Y ShuntSig 1E.lua
MBGnd_Sig.lua
MBRunGnd_Sig 2E.lua
MB Y ShuntSig Spl.lua
MBRunGnd_Sig 2E.out
MBRunGnd_Sig 2EXXX.lua
MBShuntSig 1E.lua
MBShuntSig 2E.lua
MBShuntSig 3E.lua

The easiest way to find all instances of these is to use a fast search system, my preferred one is called "Everything" - freely available for download.

I have read elsewhere that an unconnected user is looking at the scripts with a view to fixing them and has identified some faults in them already - I think that is our only line of hope for these scripts at the moment.

The alternative would be to completely re-signal the Stainmore route with different signals - this would not be an entirely bad thing as the present ones are actually London & North Western of a design totally different to the North Eastern Railway slotted-post signals that would have actually existed on the line. At present no such signals exist for TS, but it could be re-signalled with something else without making things look any worse.

But for now, I'm happy to make do with inoperable shunt signals.

John

 

DTM locos probably got testing due to the fact they are generally sold on Steam, and therefore they get support in that aspect. Stainmore is not. So naturally, I can see why DTM stuff still works.

 

As the defective signals are just Ground Signals for shunting you could either live with them not working or replace them

 

They stop scenarios from working. I have only tried two scenarios when loaded, the game is frozen and you have to use Task Manager to exit and restart your computer. I have 39 scenarios for this route so I won't try all of them.

 

???..... you try a scenario and it doesn't work so you conclude that all scenarios are affected?

 

There's an extensive thread on the RW Free Forums that goes in to a lot of depth about the whys and wherefores of it, I'll link to it later when I'm back on my home PC, but the short version seems to be that there is an incompatibility between some of the signal scripts and the latest TS version that is preventing any scenario from running.

 

Just done a Quick Drive from Penrith towards Tebay without any Signalling problems

 

When the game freezes and you have to quit via the Task Manager, no, I wouldn't be testing them any further either.

If they scripts can't be fixed, new signals that work will be needed. But I suspect scripts can be fixed.

 

Is it freezing on loading the scenarios when it goes through the images if so just leave it a few minutes don’t touch anything or move the mouse and see if it loads after a few minutes.

 

Probably explains why I had a crash on starting a scenario, after finally getting round to reinstalling Stainmore the other day.

Oh well, fun while it lasted.

 

This is the thread I was referring to. There's some quite extensive investigative work gone into this:
https://railworks.freeforums.net/thread/1663/f4-hud-freezing-release-tsc2024

Note that you may have to register in order to access the link.

 

Yean, and the fix given is just what 70045 posted 2 days ago

 

Right, but it does show that it's more than just a single possibly faulty scenario affected.

 

I notice that despite the issues, regardless of where the fault lies, SSS have still got the route listed for sale at full price on their website. No indication that people may have difficulty running the route and its scenarios. Nor any information on the front page as to what their plans are to fix it for customers who already own the route and get a patch about.

 

But nobody's saying it's a scenario issue, it's been determined that the ground signal scripts are the most likely cause of the problems

 

A quote from a Steam comment. "I contacted SSS about my problems with the Route and they replied saying sorry but unfortunately the recent TSC update seems to have caused trouble with the route and they hope that DTG will issue an update to sort out whatever is causing this. All they know is that the Route worked without issue before the 2024 core update was released. I tend to agree because I have had this Route since it was first released for TS and has run perfectly alright until recently."

 

The impression I got from your reply to Trevkiwi was that you were suggesting it may have been a scenario issue. Apologies if that was not the case.

 

It is not exactly a “fix” to have non-functional signals, especially if they were used in some fashion in a scenario that might be broken without them functioning. A proper fix would be needed. I am sure they will figure it out.

I do agree the route should be temporarily removed from sale while this is fixed.

 

if routes where to get removed while fixes implemented no routes would be available then.
Also how does removing it from sale help those who have it already with the bug.

 

I have seen the practice of products being removed before. Not necessarily in this game or genre, just in general.

 

It freezes after the scenario has loaded.

 

Ok and the 2nd point I made how willl removing it from sale help those who have already bought it

 

I have had this with a few scenarios since the update on routes it wasn’t exactly freezing but my fps tanked down to 1fps. I done the easy fix and just done a complete fresh reinstall touch wood it’s been fine since.

 

No need to apologise, but my post was intended to illustrate that just testing a single scenario is not enough to gain any idea of just what's going awry. Peter's stated that a QD scenario has run fine for him, so what seems obvious (to me) is that somebody else should try a QD and that Peter should try a standard scenario that others have had bother with.

 

The key word was "temporarily". Once it's fixed, it goes right back up in fixed form.

 

ok so how does removing it FROM SALE temporarily help those who have purchased it already. It dont do anything what does help those is a patch to fix the issue and they dont need to remove it from sale to do that

Looks a stunning route though one to be buying.

 

I wouldn't say it's stunning. It's nice, but fairly old now and lacks a bit of scenery and vegetation imho. Not on par with recent releases.

 

I admit after all the hype I wasn’t overly impressed when I drive it. Has a bit of a MSTS feel to it. Not IMHO as good as the Weardale route. Also one or two of the scenarios I tried were unachievable due to tight timings totally at odds with nursing a steam loco up the steep gradients. As regards withdrawing from sale, well obviously temporary while the issue is sorted assuming it can be, but if it remains on sale for the duration should put a clear caveat in the sales description that there are currently problems. This is not some freeware that got nerfed but a relatively expensive £29.50 add on, sold independently so you can’t refund as with an item purchased from Steam.

 

They have lots of sales so I will be grabbing it on next sale. I have had no issues with the freezing since a fresh TSC install took me a few days but rather that than days of banging my head on my desk lol

 

Would you be happy if you purchased a new route only for it not to work from day 1?
By taking it off sale until a fix is done then people purchasing the route after that date will have it working and those who have it now will have a fix.
And you must have more than one route to run?

 

It doesn't. It just prevents someone new from buying it while it's in a broken form, leading to awkward customer service situations.

 

Used to it how many routes have we purchased over the years as you and I I have been in this hobby for a long time and had issues with routes. None of them have ever been removed from sale until fixed.

 

No DTG Route had been removed from sale because of a fault - if so there would not be too many routes

 

Which is what I said above to cyclone

Hope you are well and having a nice weekend enjoying the summer weather whilst we have it lol

 

I re-installed the route because I assumed it was crashing because of something I had done. Doesnt seem to be crashing now, guess it must be only if the Scenario uses those signals?
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachme...08100ba72a648700736759d0a02a68ba6c8783ca8124&

 

Despite the nice weather I'm full of a cold and a bit ratty - and my eyes are a bit bunged up too

 

Is it bad hayfever mate I had that a few days ago. My antihistamine was not working but cleared up now thankfully.

 

Allergies? I get mysteriously sick sometimes, myself.

 

Theres a patch available on the sss site.

 

It's the same workaround that was posted on Wotawally's Bits - disabling the shunting signal scripts so the signals are dead.

The scripts themselves are not fixed, someone on the Steam forums has found a lot of issues and is working on a real fix.

 

The blessings of obfuscated scripts and the original author unavaible to fix the lua code, even though SSS is still in business.
I doubt this author really created the scripts from scratch, but rather amended someone else's. On older UK routes, the signal scripts are still in clear text .lua, so perhaps a substitution can be made?

This is a fairly decent route, so working shunt signals are a nice touch.

 

The SSS scripts are in plain .lua, and yes, as I understand it they are already modifications of Mark's original scripts.

 

Do we know if SSS have issued an official patch, or intend to do so?