Statement Skyhook Regarding The 187 (twitter)

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by doublefine7, Oct 18, 2021.

  1. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    So I asked Skyhook on Twitter whether they plan to bring updates to the 187 because a lot of people complained that Skyhook wouldnt react in the past. I got a pleasant surprise in that regards:

    skyhook.png

    Also I asked whether the community can provide sound recordings for the 187, I also got a reply:

    skyhook1.png

    There is hope, at least to me.
     
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  2. A Big Chungus

    A Big Chungus Active Member

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    Not to be a downer, but how much of that is genuine and how much is PR talk.
     
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  3. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    Thats for you to decide. I am just providing it ;)
     
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  4. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    I'll believe it when I see it,but at least this response is better than nothing
     
  5. thundergaming11

    thundergaming11 Well-Known Member

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    I see no hope getting the audio sorted anytime soon. It'll probably never come if they end up working on future projects too. The only hope is when modders on pc manage to whip up a better sound pack but that'll only be for pc. I don't know what restrictions are like in Europe rn but I would've thought most if not all are lifted, but I guess not.
     
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  6. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    That's actually not too dissimilar to what was provided to Sam for the stream, although I don't remember that statement having the plans to fix "outstanding issues".
     
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  7. TKessel

    TKessel Member

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    The main problem with the Sound is, that it wouldn't be such a big problem if they had communicated this BEFORE the release and told us that they will deliver it later. Now their is no clear answer if or if they will not deliver.

    Also what about all the other Bugs? PZB, LZB, Camera position...
     
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  8. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    A mod has been linked somewhere here on the forums where the mod maker pretty much decided to go record it, recorded it and mixed it into a superior product. C'mon Skyhook, it's not about your one and only contact not being able to get hands on the loco.
     
  9. mariussoare_84

    mariussoare_84 Well-Known Member

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    "I would like to build a Ferrari 458 but due to not knowing anyone at the Ferrari factory I fitted it with Mercedes Citaro 1 sounds that I had found the quickest in my library.
    I hope you enjoy it. Don't forget to like and subscribe!"
    lmao
     
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  10. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    I posted this because there are people who didnt watch the stream where that was mentioned. That is the first thing.

    Second, mods can only be used on PC, the console users dont have that advantage so mods arent the solution and I strongly advice not to interpret mods as the ultimate solution because they arent.

    Third, I strongly advice to tone down the pessimism regarding fixes and patches. I know you all are disappointed by past things but I personally think this shouldnt be carried over all the time since every Addon has to stand for itself. Also you get a better mood by not expecting disappointment but expecting nothing.
     
  11. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It would be illegal for a commercial concern to use those bootleg sound recordings.
     
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  12. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure?
    I'm not sure a sound from a locomotive can be trademarked or copyrighted and certainly if you make a recording of a sound then you own the copyright to that recording (if not the sound itself), so as long as this 3rd party recorded those sounds using their own equipment it shouldn't breach IP
     
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  13. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The issue becomes whether the sound recording was obtained legally, and whether you have the documentation to prove it was obtained legally.
     
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  14. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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  15. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    All of it is genuine. You can tell by the way it is worded. It is also PR to put out genuine reasons for something happening.
    If the person who made the recording is not recording a performance of something or something similarly protected then the sole rights belong to the person who recorded it. No laws are being broken. If they broke into a train yard to record it then that’s a different matter. Someone exercising due diligence may be reluctant to use sounds recorded by some random person as there usually isn’t enough proof that the recordings are legitimately owned by the chap in the big coat handing over the tapes in a darkened car park (or its modern digital equivalent transaction). Too risky.
     
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  16. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    DB or Bombardier should not prosecute those who try to faithfully reproduce their locomotive with all possible means even in times of adversity as we have experienced, but to thank for a job well done.
    What should be punishable by the corresponding cancellation of the license is to put the sound of a blender on the BR 187.
    *I edit by removing the jail part because it was obviously an exaggeration in a humorous tone but some may misinterpret it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2021
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  17. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we should throw all of Skyhook's devs in prison and remove every German DLC for TSW because... ummm... *checks notes*... you're dissatisfied with one DLC.

    Yes, I'm sure that's a great use of the legal system.
     
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  18. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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  19. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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  20. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    I see. So it must be because of the pandemic if they didn't even enter the two indicators with brake pressure (indicators found on all German locomotives, even on the 187). At present (on PC) the sounds are the least of the problems. AFB and LZB are completely broken.
     
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  21. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Lets be patient, better get sounds late than never.
     
  22. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Skyhook says they will fix the 187 later.
    I say I will consider buying it later.
     
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  23. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    If previous Rivet/Skyhook DLCs are anything to go by, you will end up not buying it at all :D
     
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  24. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    I am "amazed"
    COVID - the ultimate "solution" & The Meta-Answer
     
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  25. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    Well, I know how the situation in germany with covid was handled the last 2 years and well, yes, Covid is a solid answer here because for a long time we had lockdowns and homeoffice stuff, so going anywhere wasnt really easy (and recording sounds are not considered a necessary business in terms of relevant to society unlike grocery stores and hospitals.)

    A lot of you forget that lockdowns forced companies to be cautious and so they decimated the personal contacts as much as they could.

    But hey, denying the reality just for the sake of being angry about some sounds is just another proof that the train sim community really needs to sort its priorities.

    That doesnt mean that I defend the poor sound quality and the poor overall quality of the DLC. But their argument is objectively not an excuse, at least not for the sounds. The other things like AFB and LZB could and must have been handled better.
     
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  26. Richard CZE

    Richard CZE Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you. But why didn't Skyhook studio tell you in advance that they didn't have the right sounds. None of the Skyhook staff was at the first demonstration. It was a bad surprise for all of us. If Skyhook wants to save revenue for this DLC, it should release the necessary repairs as soon as possible and communicate more.
     
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  27. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Now called... the "Facebook Answer"
     
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  28. kitsunomara

    kitsunomara New Member

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    I do understand that it is probably quite difficult to aquire sounds of a train in a different country via a contact during a pandemic that seems to be getting a new variant unfortunately. However I do also think that if they cannot find a way to fix it within a reasonable time considering people paid for the product, they should just use mods as the patch that are already readily available. To me it is just annoying that basic elements of the train were completely messed, and unfortunately I am on console as I do not have a good enough PC so I have to pretty much deal with it until they fix it. Anyways I found two mods just readily available, hope this is considered by skyhook games.

    https://rail-sim.de/forum/thread/34598-irflouz-s-tsw-2-enhancement-packs-soundmods/?pageNo=3

    https://www.trainsimcommunity.com/m...patches/i1598-db-br-187-mini-enhancement-pack
     
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  29. irFlouz

    irFlouz Active Member

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    Not like they're already in the process of doing that, at least with the sounds :P
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2021
  30. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Again, DTG, as a commercial business, CANNOT use sounds picked up off YouTube or a modding site.
     
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  31. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

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    I dont care about the sounds. Just give me the AFB and LZB fix.
     
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  32. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    As soon as I didn’t hear about the right sounds my wallet clenched tighter than I’ve ever seen it
     
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  33. anarchy99

    anarchy99 Active Member

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    Last night, I purchased the DB BR 187 for 40% discount in the Steam winter sale and would like to provide some constructive criticism for the team at SHG.
    The loco itself looks well modelled and I believe when the following points are corrected this DLC will make for enjoyable content.
    I noted these issues whilst playing the first scenario, 'A Trip to Aachen', in default position cab end 2.
    • AFB control ignores the position of where the power handle is set and will always apply maximum power. I deem this a high priority to fix.
    • At LZB Ende it is not possible to acknowledge with PZB release, thus incurring the brake penalty. This is another high priority to fix.
    • AFB does not respond when switched on after being switched off. For example, when resetting AFB at LZB Ende.
    • I like the dirt effect around the edge of the windscreen beyond the reach of the wiper blades but the tinted glass on the cab windows is too dark and would benefit from an opacity reduction, in my opinion.
    It is also worth noting, I am using irFlouz's Soundmod_BETA2 downloaded from rail-sim.de to enhance my experience. However, in the DLC's current condition with the above issues, I cannot recommend this DLC and would go as far as to suggest it is not fit for purpose.
     
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  34. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    me too I purchased the DB BR 187 for 40% discount in the Steam winter sale
     
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  35. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    At least with the sound mod it makes it to a good overpriced AI loco. I remember matt saying on a stream that skyhoosk is on a update. But not sure if it was the small one came a month ago or so.
     
  36. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

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    The thing is, for a moment when looking at the sale I was tempted. However I can just not justify buying a loco with broken PZB, AFB and/or LZB, as that would only bring me frustration as a player that uses these systems.

    I di still really want to own a BR 187, and would love to buy this one when fixed. I just really hope the promised fixes come soon.
     
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  37. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

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    As someone who has it in their library and not able to play it because of all this, I agree that it is not worth to purchase now. Its just frustrating to just be waiting for fixes to basic systems. I am not sure how they even let this through to QA. Its so obvious.
     
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  38. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. The right sounds are a step in the right direction (if/when they come), but by no means make the 187 be up to scratch. The negative reviews it got were not just because of the sound, from the headlights to AFB/PZB/LZB, there's a lot broken or wrong on the loco. Until those things are fixed, I won't be getting the 187 even though I was probably going to get it at launch originally.
     
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  39. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    When taking a step back and view at the bigger picture im almost sure there is more on the fact, the horseshoe curve went into production again than just the "shorter" train lenghts compared to sherman hill.

    When it comes to quality i dont mind to wait until its ready, no matter how long it takes. I also think skyhook will release the fix to the 187 in its expected state after the release of the curve. Would be bad advertisement for the first loco dlc with a rating of -23%.
     
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  40. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Possibly, especially when one considers how many issues plague/plagued the AC44 and SD40 on Cane Creek - and those were just modified DTG locos. I really want Skyhook to do well, but I'm not optimistic about Horseshoe Curve.
     
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  41. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you. I really want Skyhook to flourish in TSW2, but there are still unfixed issues on their content, which makes me worry if they will ever fix the issues, and if horseshoe curve will be a good dlc or not.
     
  42. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    They managed to turn the rear bogie looking the wrong side around on the updated 44cw, like "the shote" pointed out after the patch release.

    On the 187 beside the bugs with systems not working, the "Zugkraftankenkung" isnt attached to the bogie. Its the shaft connects the chassis with the rear part of the bogie.
    Screenshot_20211224-083126_Chrome.jpg

    Skyhooks shaft is just placed in the air on the bogies side. This part you can see really well, its not hidden.

    This is suposed to be a product in the simulation genre.

    I know that the "guy" (a real train driver in germany) provided skyhook over a trader company with fotos and material for the 187 called it an epic fail after release. This was more than 2 years ago, when the project got initiated. First thought for ts together with another loco. The Material was taken from a loco in stuttgart. Not sure about sounds.
    He mentioned skyhook wasnt even considering him for a beta test before release.

    I asume the loco dlc never had one with people involved who know the real 187.

    Thats the big issue here. The key to a successful peace of simcontent is a back ckeck of somebody knows the dmn thing, doesnt matter its a car, train or a plane.
     
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  43. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    I so wanted to buy this but with the LZB & AFB issues with no sign or word of a fix anytime soon I've sadly passed on this, despite my policy of supporting third party devs. I could live with the sound being incorrect but I just can't live with bot being able to use safety systems correctly.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2021
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  44. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    I hope they will fix it, because the 3D Model is nice, beside the bogie components attacht to nothing. Its a waste of ressources to release a loco in this state after make it visually almost perfect.
     
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  45. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    +1
     
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  46. osiegmund9

    osiegmund9 Well-Known Member

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    I also bought this Loco in the Steam-Sale but only to use it as AI to bring more variety to the german freight trains. The modell itself looks great but well... that it.
     
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  47. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    However, 40% off is not cheap enough for a pure AI option, in my opinion. I am happy to pay full price for a complete product!
     
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