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Steam Coming To Tsw

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by rcdevisser, Mar 12, 2021.

  1. rcdevisser

    rcdevisser Active Member

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    As I had already before mentioned issues that should be involved in the drivers experiences.

    I want to show some YT videos (Link) so everybody can see what must be done to fire up a steamer.
    As I have already mentioned as well to have the choice of the modes (Levels by meaning) the engine should start in. Different modes / levels of the starting process must take place in order to pop-off.

    This must be achieved and must be implemented in TSW2 as well but must be choose able prior to the scenario or executing some timetable

    How to fire up a steam locomotive


    The video directly underneath explains exactly how to coal fire and this is one of the exact processes
    that definitely must become part of the TSW2 Steam Locomotive
    This is by far never attempted to implement in TS20xx engines despite the many Advanced engines that are available for TS20xx.

    How to fire a full-size coal burning steam locomotive


    When you look at the videos everything is working. Every lever, knob, button, gauge, door, lubricator, oil reservoirs, injectors, ejectors, pumps, name it in the video and it works as it should do. All these items must be simulated as well but according to the choice of the train simmer. Really everything must be all simulated as well as part of the contribution to the adoration of the mighty steamer as it was yesteryear.

    There is one simulation program that fits the simulation for the purpose that should be build in in the oncoming TSW2 steam locomotive and that is "Steam Expres" (at UKTrainsim for download)
    This program features the fire grate more precise that all TS20xx together

    A day in the life of a Steam Locomotive Fireman


    How to Wake up a Steam Locomotive / Nickel Plate Road 765


    Lighting Up a steam loco


    It is important to have all possible features fully implemented as it is in real life.
    But simmers should choose for it by ticking a mode depending their desire.

    I will give examples for different modes that should be chooseable not much later after this thread
     
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  2. dedh98mosqueto

    dedh98mosqueto Active Member

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    It takes two hours just to bring a porter saddle tank to pressure. So adding this to the game would mean that a whole scenario would be just around this.
     
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  3. rcdevisser

    rcdevisser Active Member

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    There must be a possibility to shorten the procedure, but the choice must remain to fire up a complete steamer according to the real time it takes. A Saddle tank takes 2 hours but in these two hours all what is needed to be done must be carried out as well. This means firing on wood, cleaning the smoke box, checkiing boiler level, lubricating all bearers, oil nipples, oil cans with the proper oil manually. Checking every pump, injector, ejector, every valve, every rod. etc etc, When all things needs to be carried out as in real life. Then even two hours is way too short. When time is left over then the engine must be polished as well.

    For larger engines like a Britannia Class or the German Br 01 it takes at least 8 hours. to complete the full check list
     
  4. steammaster4449

    steammaster4449 Well-Known Member

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    You're asking for A LOT if you're asking for the full experience of firing up and running a steamer to be added. Like mosqueto said, a Porter saddle tank takes 2 hours to fire up, therefore requiring an entire scenario to just fire it up. I don't think there's a whole lotta TSW players that'd like to go through that entire process in a simulator. The best way to get that experience is to join up with an organization here in reality that runs steam locos. From my understanding of things, which has the possibility of being wrong, DTG have said in those DTG Live articles about steam coming to TSW2 that they're gonna try to walk that line between simple and advanced controls. Now, if other developers start making their own steam locomotives for TSW2, they very well might be able to recreate that process, but I have VERY high doubts you'll see that much realism from DTG.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
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  5. mariner86

    mariner86 Active Member

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    https://www.strasburgrailroad.com/611-at-strasburg/

    If anyone wants to experience an American icon of steam for real I can’t recommend this highly enough. I had the chance to run 611 and it is an experience you wont easily forget. They have a fire up event that takes you through the whole process.
     
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  6. rcdevisser

    rcdevisser Active Member

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    I am member and former fireman at SSN for more than 15 years.
    The avatar shows me during one of those shifts on the 23 023 2-6-2 German engine

    What I want to achieve is all features that are rquired to fire the engine up and driving the engine in a virtual environment like TSW so everybody gets the opportunity to taste what is all about steam locomotives.

    Not only to taste but also to study and learning.
    The more realism the better the driving experiance is.

    One of these major issues is proper firing.
    You just can not simply throw some coal on the fire grate is it does right now in TS20xx
    You need to know on what spot on the frie grate coal is needed
    This MUST be implemented in TSW2 to geg the proper understanding what the fire does and not just simply throw some coal in the fire box.

    Palyers mus also have the opportunity to choose a specified mode to drive in.
    From very simple to master driver compelety managingthe engine into yhe mosg minor degail to achieve the true realism of driving without being a member of some club. Depending the rules of the club it is hard to get on the engjne as driver or fireman and thats why it is needed to get all features operational as much as possible into the oncoming steamers for TSW.
     
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  7. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The way to handle it would to be to have a service in which you light it off, and then the service ends once the fire's going. A new service picks up when steam pressure is ready to go.

    Nobody is going to want to do nothing for the hours in between.
     
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  8. rcdevisser

    rcdevisser Active Member

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    Concerning scenarios I believe all can be done in one scenario but for a engine like a Pacific it will last up for 8 hours in order to get the steamer pressurized and operational. It should be better to have scenario's that will take you through the whole process step by step.

    This means for each step a seperate scenario in a chain or the possibility to decide which scenario you'd like to do and once you have done all scenario's than you are that far and able to drive but capable to handle the engine properly.
     
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  9. steammaster4449

    steammaster4449 Well-Known Member

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    I H I G H L Y doubt you'll see that much realism come to TSW2, regardless of who thinks it necessary, not necessary, never-gonna-happen, possibly-gonna-happen, absolutely-gonna-happen, or what have you. As by your own admission, it takes EIGHT HOURS to get a Pacific, and I'm assuming we're going with European/British Pacifics with that, up to operating pressure and all that lovely stuff. I do not know of a developer that'll spend all the time needed to get that researched, all the proper audios recorded and mixed, models modeled, and things coded, developer stuff, et cetra et cetra, all put into a game just on the what-if of someone going for that sorta uber-realism by flicking some sorta proverbial switch. To put that in perspective, the entire Clinchfield scenario/service thing, I'm not familiar with which one's which due to being more familiar with TS Classic, roughly in Mr. Matt P.'s own words from one of the streams, takes that much time to do all in one sitting. So yeah, that's my reasoning for having some strong doubts against every little experience that comes from steam locomotive operation being taken from reality and put into a still relatively new game, which seems, at least to me, to be what you're asking for, albeit a roughed up summary of it. Am I completely against such a thing coming to TSW2? Good heavens no. Being a steam fan myself, as evidenced by my account name that I so desperately wanna change now, I'd be tickled pinker then the Pink Panther himself if that kinda thing came to TSW2. But I'm also realistic with my expectations. I don't think DTG or anyone else will be able to fully justify from a monetary/economic standpoint, the heavy development needed for that sorta aforementioned uber-realism to exist in the game as an option. It'd be a very niche part of the TSW2 community that'd actually use that sorta option enough for the development costs to eventually be justified, but even then, it'd probably take to long to keep a dev from having second thoughts about doing it all.
     
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  10. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    A lot of the word MUST used in all of your posts. The things you are describing are of little interest to most players. They want to drive the trains, not study them to the point of them being able to pass an exam. The start up procedure in diesel locos is much simplified in TSW and then never actually used in the gameplay itself. The same will be true of steam locos.

    There just isn’t the capacity to add in all of the detail you want and it would be a waste of developer’s time and money to program all that complexity (and what would go wrong if you didn’t do it correctly) for the extremely small number of players that would get any benefit from it. It’s not real life, nor is it a training simulator or study aid, it’s a train driving game that enables people of all abilities to drive trains. I expect there will be some more complicated controls that are simulated for those who want a fuller experience, but if you are wanting the detail of adding coal to different parts of the fire, or the full procedure to fire up a loco then you are going to be disappointed.

    There is no ‘must’ about what should be involved and it certainly can’t be all of it. Some aspects of driving a steam train will be included and many will not. For you, being a fireman for real, these things may seem important, and I expect you had to do a lot of training and weeks of on the job experience, to be able to fire a locomotive, the players of TSW should not have to do that, and once they know they can just jump into a train and drive it there won’t be the incentive to learn it, and in TSW the ability to just jump in and drive is one thing that actually ‘must’ be an option.
     
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  11. rcdevisser

    rcdevisser Active Member

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    All the MUSTs I talk about is to aim for everybody within all variety of interests. In some messages before I talked about the different modes to start on.

    I do fully understand that not all wants to use the features I talk about but all features must be operational on a steamer.
    But prior to start there must be a pop-up screen or ability in the setting to choose a mode to drive on.
    That mode you choose for sets up the engine as you want. the state of the engine to start in.

    I am thinking at about 12 different modes which should be possible to start in.
    An example if a toddler wants to drive it . The parents should choose the toddler mode.
    The toddler then has just two buttons to drive the whole engine which should be a combined direction, brake, and traction programming. No Fireman, no safety systems, no derailments or crashes, No SPAD.......!!!! Just driving for fun making the toddler possible to drive the whole train. TSW does work all the ohter features such as open close cylinder cocks, regulating brake pressure, once and a while the safety valves goes of

    An other mode is for example the average driver. This mode is comparable with the driving facilities as it is now used in TSW2.

    From the 1st grader mode it should be possible to choose if you want to be a driver or fireman.

    Finally the expert driver. who wants to do all by himself (like me for instance) Firing up the engine at the full time length. with to possibility to save and continue in desire. Featuring all required sequences of progress and work-outs such as: cleaning the ash-pan, smokebox. putting wood on the fire grate. lubricate all bearers manually and separately open up all valves that needs to be open on the required moment. etc, etc. .This is for the most expert drivers or those who wants r the thrill of working out al the requirements and sequences as in real life.

    There should also be a study program featuring all steps required to run the steam locomotive with explanation and study performances, reaching points for each study module and doing an examen to pass and to become a "certified" driver or fireman this gives a huge boost in eagering to get there and reaching points which should be registered in the Mastery class system as well.

    To have this all done and to acomplish these features many hours of gaming will be the result of playing TSW2 and getting ythe hang of the woprking of a steam locomotive. Because knowledge is slowly fading away since the end of the steam era. and by achieving this goal the basic knowledge will remain present. using the TSW2 as platform to keep up the knowledge.

    this is why I eager to get ALL features, work-outs and sequences into TSW2 to run the steamer how so ever. Not only to drive but also to maintain that knowledge. Because it is not for everybody to become a part of a club to experience the real life due to medical disabilities, sickness. distance to a club. Wwork, family social distrances, etc, etc. Someone in a wheelchair is not capable to lubricate the engine.

    By setting up a mode system is will become possible in a virtual way to get it done still featuring all desires of all virtual drivers in TSW2 and beyond.




    Regards,
     
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  12. csxfan#8403

    csxfan#8403 Active Member

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    I think some possible US steam routes would be the Strasburg Railroad, the Western Maryland Scenic(in which you could operate both 734 and 1309), California Western Railroad, Mt. Rainier Scenic, Cumbres & Toltec, Durango & Silverton Narrow Gauge Railroad, Durbin & Greenbriar etc.
     
  13. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Excellent post and why not give some German routes steam rail tours like Haputstrecke Rhein-Ruhr by making the segment towards Bochum Dallhausen steam Railway and these locomotives have PZB Installed since the 1930s and upgraded by Deutsche Bundesbahn in the post-war years. How about an international route like Duisburg Oberhausen-Arnhem Railway to which the steam rail tour must use PZB LZB Sifa Duisburg Oberhausen-Emmerich ETCS Zenvaar-Emmerich and Zenvaar-Arnhem ATB EG/NG
     
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  14. rcdevisser

    rcdevisser Active Member

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    It does not matter which route and steamers should be involved. I am aiming at the hugh variety of operating controls of the steam locomotive. The in-depth technical basics of the steamer. This concerns me much much more instead which engine or what route DGT will bright forth. A steam locomotive on its own is a hugh machine to tame and master and all issues from firing up till the moment the engine is stored away after deep cleaning and an extinguished fire. all sequences, procedures, work-outs etc, etc, as it is in real life.

    In my opinion I would like to see the German "Emsland route" in 1970 between Rheine and Nordreich Mole with the famous Pacific Br 01.10 the all purpose engine Br 41, The heavy freight engine Br 44, the smaller variant which is the Br 50 and a shunter like the Br 81 or Br 86.
    All engine I mentioned here are already available for TS20xx by manufacturers like: Romantic Railraods / BeeKay, The Forge Sim,
    DTG / Bossman Games and Eisenbahnwerk. but newly designed to fit the standards of the TSW2 Unreal engine specifications but all features like: gauges, valves, buttons, knobs, levers, handlebars, pistons. pumps, etc, etc operation and working into the smallest detail.

    For the US I would like to see Sherman Hill, the Horseshoe curve or the Bessemer & Lake Erie. And Personally The Sherman Hill would be the best because the variety of steamer the UP had was hugh. I would like to see the Big-Boy, Challenger and the FEF-3 coming to TSW2 with all features in-depth available as mentioned above.


    Best Steaming Regards,
     
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  15. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    A bit of friendly advice - I wouldn‘t get my hopes up in that regard. Even the cold start of diesel engines is simplified in TSW. I don‘t see DTG recreating a real cold start of a steam locomotive in all its aspects. Furthermore, no maintenance work has ever been featured for any of the locos thus far. Stuff like removing the ash or lubing/greasing all of the necessary bits are even more unlikely to be featured in my opinion.

    Operating a steam engine is completely different compared to a diesel or electric loco. This will be simulated in driving, I think, not in all of the maintenence surrounding steam engines.
     
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  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    A new DTG franchise opportunity: Train Mechanic Sim World!
     
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  17. rcdevisser

    rcdevisser Active Member

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    I would like to see the system of Train Mechanics into TSW2 somehow
     
  18. rcdevisser

    rcdevisser Active Member

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    I have made a list with modes which should be implemented in TSW2 driving skills.

    From the most simple driving methods till the most advanced driving methods.
    It is all bought together in this list of modes.
    In each column a Marker "X" is set for every item that should be available when choosing the mode you want to drive.
    Please notice the "explanation of the list" as well prior to check the list.

    There are basically 6 major modes inhabiting driving skills and levels and each mode is divided in two columns this will bring in totally 12 different modes. Another mode is only mentioned but not listed but completely customizable. This is mode 13

    The list is in PDF format and downloadable

    Best Steaming Regards
     

    Attached Files:

  19. DeStijl

    DeStijl Well-Known Member

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    Only 13 modes?

    Mate, this is a simulation ... I expect 20 modes at minimum.
     
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  20. rcdevisser

    rcdevisser Active Member

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    Did you take notice of the PDF concerning the modes...........?
    Have you checked what you need to operate and to perform to become a Senior Master according Mode 12 ..........?
     
  21. dedh98mosqueto

    dedh98mosqueto Active Member

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    Engines in North America are not polished as they are all black. The only exception is the Southern's Crescent Limited engine, and other Pacific type engines.
     
  22. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I do like the idea of arriving at an engine shed, maybe at the end of a GWR branch line, at 5am in the morning and being the shed firelighter. It would be great too if you could go round and oiling all the parts which a driver had to do whilst the engine was "warming up". However it is extremely unlikely any of that will be seen. Very few are going to want to wait for a few hours for steam pressure to build up. I suppose you could have a "lighting the fire" service in service mode and the next service could be "ready to take the engine off shed" but that is going to lengths of realism which have never been seen before in any of the major simulators.
     
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  23. rcdevisser

    rcdevisser Active Member

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    I had posted the list of modes to drive on the next one will be a range of scenario's that should be part of lighting up the engines. Each scenario would take the driver/fireman through each proces it takes to lit the engine. each action separately and each work-out in-depth explained in order to get the hang of the whole sequence and experiences. each accomplished proces and sequence must imporove the s=driving skills and mastery levels in the master class. Driving steam is not just doing a simple drive on its own. Much, much more issues come across your way while driving.

    The major issue is I am fighting for it to get this done in a virtual way because many, many enthousiast are willing to be a part of a club or society to learn drive and maintain the steam locomotive in all its aspects. But just a few are able to get this experience. Another major issue is the fact that skills and steam technical knowledge is slowly fading away. This is a hugh reason to fight for it to get this implemented in TSW2 to avoid the loss of steam technical knowledge. TSW2 is a serious platform and a serious simulation program that is able to inhabit all these mentioned features in the Mode list
     

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