Having always spurned American freight routes as I just thought they were boring slow runs I am now becoming a convert. I only had SPG as I had no choice but a few weeks ago decided to have a drive out of curiosity, and what a lovely route I thought it was. Then I picked up Cajon pass which is quite different in feel, but again I really enjoyed trying to control these heavy freight trains. This brings me to Clinchfield. I picked it up yesterday and have only played it for an hour last night but what a lovely route. I love the lush scenery, the wooded valleys and the very rural feel of the route where you feel you really are in the wilderness. The F7 is quite a different locomotive too. I also like the fact it is set in the 1970's. It really exhudes atmosphere. Knowing very little about American freight routes but having done some quick research it seems there are quite a few options for DLC for it, particularly some switcher locomotives for some interesting scenarios and services. I hope DTG haven't forgotten it as it seems an opportunity missed if they have.
Sadly it seems to have fallen into the standalone fire and forget bucket, but it is a stellar route and as such really deserves a bit more love.
Clicnfield remains an all-time favourite of mine. The atmosphere, the locos, the scenery, the timetable, ... It's in dire need of some love though. The pathing along the passing loops is all wrong, night services are borderline unplayable with the lighting and (lack of) headlights and a GP7 DLC could make use of the loading facilities along the mainline.
I second everything said here. CRR must be the most out-of-the-box route in the entire game. No effort was spared when those scenarios were written. You can spend a whole (work) day E2E. Now, coal loading on a 3.4% grade is definitely for hardcore freight nerds. But yes, the route could handle some love. As soon as you hit the countryside, those generic and repetitive foliage textures can look quite ugly.
In what way is the pathing wrong on the loops? Admittedly I wasn't involved in the TSW version, but I'm interested to hear why you'd think that the pathing isn't right.
You will notice that there are several loop areas in order for trains to pass each other on the otherwise single-track route. The problem is that many trains are diverted onto the loop even when there is no other train to pass. This results in your train slowly and tediously running up the loop when it could have just stayed on the main. In actual practice, a train would stay on the higher-speed main line unless there was a need for it to take the slower path. So why is it this way? The speculation has always been that the trains run in this way in a misguided attempt to preserve right-hand running. This issue has been brought up before, but it is not likely that any fixes or updates will ever come to CRR.
It's an awesome route, but it has some very annoying bugs and nothing was done to fix them, even though it cannot be very difficult to do so.
Not that I wish to start a flame war - and I will reiterate that I was not involved with the TSW version, but I was with the TS1 version, and with an interest in signalling, I can only offer this as a possible explanation: there are several "peculiarities" about the Clinchfield CTC installation which mean that the distinction between [loop] and [main] isn't quite as clear-cut as you might think, especially with regard to left/right hand running. As I said, I wasn't involved at all with this one - perhaps I should have said something at the time. I will add as a rider that it has been a _very_ long while since I've looked at any Clinchfield stuff, so perhaps this is only a partial explanation.
Besides pathing, the other issue that shoulder really be addressed is the service Extra 3014 which cannot be completed. However, if we are also talking about our CRR wish list items, of course I have a few of those as well: 1) Enable creators club liveries for the wagons and caboose (already works for the locos) 2) Whistle boards please 3) Signal updates to indicate diverging path 4) GP7 DLC, especially making use of the many tipples and loaders along the route which are currently unused 5) There is never an AI road traffic at crossings. And, in some spots the texture are quite bad. But to get stuff like this updated, would truly be an impossible dream.
I really liked this route when it came out. Then ran pretty late on one of the pick up runs in the afternoon. This resulted in a Mexican standoff so am not sure all sticks to one side.
To the contrary, any reply at all is greatly appreciated. Perhaps you are correct about the signalling. There are other threads that speak to this issue, and the general consensus is that this would not have been the way the line was actually operated. To my knowledge you are the only person from DTG who has even tried to offer up an explanation, so thank you.
Yes, issues such as the omission of banking com, erratic use of passing loops and poor night lighting on CRR are partly the result of broken promises and partly a simple business decision. Like many individuals and companies, DTG assumes that the passage of time will erase the memory of promises not kept. That's why there's nothing about CRR and other older routes that need fixes on current Roadmaps
Thank you! How could I have forgotten about banking comms? I think I have gotten so used to using the window on the trailing units, I just started assuming that's how it was supposed to be! And the night lighting, yes, although to my eye it is somewhat improved when running the route in TSW3, although I could be mistaken because that is not supposed to be a thing.
I may still have my notes from the TS1 version to hand somewhere in my library (either actual or digital): whenever, as I am sure such things will rise to the surface again, when looking at US&S CTC installations [1]. If I remember, I will look it out or come back and comment when it rises to the top of the pile. [1] there are various technical differences between GRS and US&S CTC, the Clinchfield used US&S; and I can clearly remember from my time on the TS1 version that "things were not quite what I expected them to be" (and that's from looking at CTC installations across the US and New Zealand as well as various Westinghouse installations that had US&S equipment at the heart).
There has clearly been quite a bit of work put into the timetable and scenarios to get the most out of the route. As noted before, sometimes the lineside detail is a bit of a let down. No whistle boards, most level crossings look extremely bad and the repeating ground texture can be irritating. That said it is always enjoyable although I haven't bothered with any night runs as it's just looking at a black screen for an hour. It's just nice to get some more heritage equipment which takes some actual skill.
MRFS, please do share what you know. I'm by no means an expert on US signalling. But I echo what others have said on the forums that diverting a train on a 15mph loop when the 30mph main is free and no train needs to pass doesn't seem prototypical to me. I'd be grateful for any information on the prototype you can share with us! Completely forgot about that. True, that was a real mess and a half.
I'm guessing this is where a more dynamic despatcher would come in handy. I'm assuming most train movements in TSW (like TSC) are on a preset path with no deviation possible. This is where Run 8 (and to some extent Zusi for Germany) have nailed it better as the despatcher/signaller will regulate trains and intelligently use all the available tracks to keep things moving. The trend for predetermined paths seemed to start with MSTS, carried forward into TSC and alive and kicking in TSW.
Clinchfield is still IMO the best US freight route that DTG has made, it still has its flaws and could of had alot more if it wasn't just left behind for newer routes. In all I wish the following was done to the route to make it better.... -Add alternative liveries for the F7 and SD40 -Fix the pathing at the passing sidings -Remove or redo that useless scenario where you take a train apart and put it back together in the same order -New loco DLC's with an SD45 and U36C for mainline freight and more period correct freight cars, GP7 for local work at the small coal tipples, and a switcher for yard work. -Add alternative liveries for the boxcar from CSX's pool of fallen flags (B&O, C&O, Seadboard, L&N etc.) Clinchfield is one of the rare times where the route outdoes its TSC counterpart, and I hope it gets looked at again in the future (Maybe even a SEHS treatment to extend the line to St. Paul)
I will gladly look when I have chance, but please don't expect anything for quite a while - as there is a lot of stuff in my own pending queue (sorry!). It's also worth reiterating that from memory of the TS1 version, the main/loop distinction on the Clinchfield isn't quite as clear cut as you might think, but I wasn't involved with the TSW version.
The pathing problem is as simple as it sounds - the dispatcher can't have dynamic optional routes so where at the time I wasn't able to check each and every service to see if it *needed* to use the loop, I set all the ones in a particular direction to use the loop. If I set the other ones to not use the loop (the ones that don't obviously need it) and then you run early or late, you'd end up in a deadlock there too. Without a dispatcher able to use loops intelligently (which it currently can't) there wasn't really any other option, as ugly as it is, i'm afraid. Matt.
Hearing that makes me wish to never see Tehachapi in TSW, cause getting forced into every siding on that route would be a pain in the rear....
We need to talk nicely to “Otto” over at Run 8! Though he is not infallible and when I ran Donner I had to step in and despatch myself a bit to untangle the mess and delete a couple of trains causing stand offs.
Right, after finishing my current run on Glossop to Manchester time to warp across to Clinchfield and push the next Journey segment or scenario!
Clinchfield has one of the best (if not the best) journey modes in the game. It was an absolute joy to play through it when it released and as it stands is the only journey I have bothered to play all the way through
My only caveat about Clinchfield as someone noted previously, is that a high proportion of the runs seem to take place in the dark and/or poor weather. Got my run going which is the twelfth Journey element (I think) and it’s a pitch black night with lashing rain so yes, essentially looking at a black screen for 80 minutes or so.
Do you know of the God Mode mod? It basically allows you to change time of day, season and weather on the fly. Handy for exactly the scenario you’re talking about. https://www.trainsimcommunity.com/mods/c3-train-sim-world/c75-utilities/i2703-tsw-god-mode-alpha-025
Thank you for your insights, Matt! I suspected as much in regards to pathing. It's unfortunate and will no doubt hinder further single track lines if not improved, but it is what it is. Still, CRR is a fantastic route even with the issues. I'd dearly love more vintage routes for the US.
As I said in another thread, something like Avery to Drexel from Trainz or the Appalachian route that Jointed Rail did would go nicely in TSW.
The Nora turn is, at least with my monitor, most playable when the conditions are set to clear and June - admittedly it's a bit of a fudge, but returning to Dante with the sun rising is quite special. A reward for all of the work done in the previous few hours!
True. Either play at the height of summer, so that the sun sets as late as possible and rises as soon as possible, or play with snow.
I'll echo what has been said about the journey mode, best one IMO across DLC. It should have been the template that all future journeys where created with.
I was thinking of getting the Humble Bundle specifically for this route. What is it that makes the Journey Mode so special?
Having spent *many* nights into the wee hour making the Clinchfield timetable and Journey, I am happy to see that aside for the other issues in the route, that didnt go unseen
Well, you’ve got shifts essentially. Each journey chapter is the complete set for one of the ‘turns’. It’s not just a loose collection of services but a shift a driver would have done, more or less.
I’ve said that’s what this game has needed for a long time now. A bit of structure, a purpose to the back and forth. In my opinion that’s where the gameplay lies, not rushing round picking up collectibles and scoring Super Awesome Action Points. If that is the case here then I might just give this a go then! Thanks.
I love this route for that, but it is a pity you are literally left in the dark about what you are doing exactly. The step-by-step instructions do not give a nice overview on the purpose of all steps. For this case it would be awesome to have some visual explanation about what you are supposed to do. It is a pity that especially for the main line drives some issues with trains to heavy to get them moving and stopping points very close to the signal spoil the fun. I really hope these will get fixed at some point.
Yes I just finished 3007. Luckily the earlier bug where your arrival road at Elkhorn was blocked by an outgoing train that failed to depart was fixed. However you still have to pass a red signal on approach where the despatcher says proceed as indicated and the stop point, in the dark and pouring rain with a heavy train on a falling gradient is literally on top of the signal, with no radius margin. I had to inch forward on top of it to get the scenario to end. Huge sigh of relief and went off to thrash the 1938 stock a bit!
It´s a bit off topic, but since you mentioned it: I´ve never had a look at the 1938 stock. But now that it has been patched, I might. What makes it so special compared to the 1972 stock? Is it worth the purchase?
I would love to see this route get a TOD4 upgrade. F7 lights tweaked and a wee bit more light at night and that route would be awesome
It still has a few issues but IMHO better than the 1972 stock. It’s acquired some good track running sounds and even, to my ears, a bit of reverb in the tunnels. Certainly worth picking up for £6 in the sale.
