The Class 150 Sounds…

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by londonmidland, Oct 21, 2021.

  1. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    That is the opposite to what should happen. At full speed but throttled back to say Notch 5 the engine should still be significantly loud. If you close the throttle then, on a Sprinter, the revs drop back quite slowly and elegantly I might say, to the idle sound which should still be quite audible.
     
  2. nhilsubsolenovum

    nhilsubsolenovum New Member

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    And still churn out awful sound
     
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  3. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Polls aside I am pretty sure that DtG and Rivet are aware of the backlash regarding the 150, if they choose to ignore it then that's a loss of revenue and trust.
     
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  4. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Rivet are in danger of being regarded as the Abacus of TSW…
     
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  5. anarchy99

    anarchy99 Member

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    I do not usually participate in these discussions but I feel it is important to address the fact that after the 187 this will be the 2nd DLC I was really looking forward to purchasing that I will no longer be due to poorly executed sound implementation. I feel Rivet have succeeded with producing a quality model of the 150 visually and I am delighted the release has been put on hold to fix other bugs. But I really believe the decision to postpone until the sounds are improved should be taken because I am just one casual member that has refrained from spending £36.98 on DTG/Rivet/SHG products this month. In my opinion, multiplied by the number of no votes in this pole is relatively significant lost revenue (£5,436.06 as of this post).
    I want to support the developers and help fund future content and it is with reluctance that I take the decision to hold off on a loco or route DLC purchase.
     
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  6. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    I was considering getting this route, but if it doesn't drive and sound right.. I'm gonna pass, i'm not getting a route for a nice beach texture
     
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  7. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    Yes, because it needs to be done in some other way. They talked about it in a streaming a while ago, now they know what ti di, but 99% they won't do it for tsw2.
     
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  8. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree. I have absolutely no issue paying the money …but I won’t be buying stuff that is of poor quality … sounds and physics are so important. As you say, visually amazing. Driving - not worthy of my £25 yet. Really hope they get this sorted because I really desperately want the route and 150. Not a chance that I’m paying anything until it’s improved though.
     
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  9. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    From what I have gathered so far, there are two main suspects which could be causing the poor and inaccurate sounds, which could possibly be linked in with each other:

    1.) Poor mixing
    Ultimately, this means that no matter how good the actual recordings are, it’ll always sound bad/off because you haven’t set the sounds to play/stop accordingly. Rivet may have not even utilised most sounds at all, and instead just used a handful of recordings and altered them via software.

    2.) Inaccurate Simugraph setup
    As people have mentioned above, the physics of the train are off. You SHOULD NOT be accelerating up a steep hill in notch 1, nor should the train immediately move when applying power from standstill. This will further exaggerate the poor sounds, as they will be playing at the wrong time/speed based on the speed of the train.

    A message for both Rivet & DTG:
    Please don’t underestimate how important accurate sounds and physics are. The fact that you are putting achievements at the same level of importance of sounds and physics is honestly quite disturbing. Is TSW supposed to be a simulator or an arcade game, because It seems to me that you don’t know where your priorities are at the moment?

    Also, there needs to be stricter guidelines, policies and quality control for the quality of DLC production. The fact that the community is constantly having to make threads about issues with x, y & z DLCs post streams says it all. We should not have to keep telling you what to fix, for it to maybe be fixed. You guys should be doing it correct from the first time. I understand no DLC will be big free, however some of these issues are quite frankly unacceptable.
     
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  10. Geth_2234

    Geth_2234 Well-Known Member

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    And that's why RIVET should be paying attention to this thread, the general consensus here is that most of the members in this thread feel the same (if not all) and if they all vote with there wallet that's a lot of money to lose and a big dent in DTGs reputation especially if it does end up with a lot of negative store ratings.
     
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  11. Geth_2234

    Geth_2234 Well-Known Member

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    I do like some of your posts on this thread very helpful as I know next to nothing about game development.

    I have seen a few of your mods and think there pretty good but do you think you or other Modders if it's even possible attempt to fix these issues and make it behave more and sound more like the real 150 as tbh going by rivets track record I can't see them fixing any of this.
     
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  12. A Very Rapid Goat

    A Very Rapid Goat New Member

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    I usually avoid this kind of thing. I try to keep in mind that they’re a small development team. However, the 150/2 sounds and physics really aren’t where they need to be. In my opinion, it’s one of the most distinctive train sounds in the UK, so it’s not the one they want to botch. Even if it takes a while, it needs to be done right.

    Ultimately, a lot more acknowledgment is needed than “we’ll look into it”. They’ve got to do better than that, certainly in terms of communication. That sort of lack of transparency and acknowledgment is probably the biggest trust and respect killer for me, as a consumer. I don’t mind mistakes, but I do mind attitude.
     
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  13. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Active Member

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    I just want to clarify something on this forum. Because I managed to get hold of this DLC before it was removed from sale, I have therefore managed to test the DMU and other aspects of the train, so I am interested to know if there are any questions that need answering about sound, physics etc. I will be looking to get this refunded soon, so I am prepared to feedback on questions about this from other members.

    Also, since testing i have found further information:

    The sander button is not recognised in my keyboard, so if using the train in snow, there are no sounds unless the sander is pressed and then it seems the sound glitches, so the slipping has not been implemented properly.

    When going past 75 mph, the sound disappears (mentioned further up) On some points of the route, I have been travelling at 60-65moh in 70 mph route sections and have derailed (rain, snow and dry). It seems that when the brakes are applied, this is when the train is most prone to derailing.

    When Jasper quoted that 150 drivers tend to apply power before releasing from notch 1, when I have attempted this in game, the rev up occurs and then the train goes silent and until I release the brakes, remains this way.

    Just advising of experiences relating to the physics so I can provide you all with honest feedback, especially when DTG are potentially going to release incomplete DLC to us and their commitments are more based on other priorities (achievements).

    (I don't want you getting ripped off!)
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
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  14. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

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    Again the derailing bug after Arosa? What's wrong with Rivet?
     
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  15. rpeterbroughlowe

    rpeterbroughlowe Active Member

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    saw the 150 take off like a rocket on one of the preview streams - nope. Try again.
     
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  16. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I think at this point, the entire physics of the train, which is powered by Simugraph, needs to be done again from the ground up. It’s clear that it’s not just the sounds of the train which is an issue now.
     
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  17. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Assuming DTG and Rivet are reading these threads, which I hope they are, they could give themselves a huge credibility boost if come Monday morning they put their arms in the air and admitted, "Yes it's not what we thought, the DLC will now be postponed until the sounds and physics are sorted." Then talk to people like Gary who have experience of working on the trains, get them involved in the beta and play testing stages and give us a 150 that will not only be right for the Cornish route but any other route being mooted in the post 1987 Regional Railways area/period.
     
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  18. SprattyHeath

    SprattyHeath Well-Known Member

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    There are certain limits to what modders can do at the moment, afaik changing the behaviour of the physics etc isn't one of them
     
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  19. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    This is shocking. Whoever is responsible for not replying to you considering you provided them with lots of helpful (FREE!) information is a disgrace. You try and help and they just throw it back in your face. Wouldn't even surprise me if they didn't even read the messages. In my opinion this is what happens when you have people who don't have a passion for the product they are creating. If they did, the quality wouldn't be this poor. Or if it was, they would have more of an interest in improving it. Maybe Jasper and Rivet should focus on content they actually have a passion for in real life.

    The one thing I don't understand is this: the release has been delayed for at least a couple of weeks if not longer; what is Rivets sound engineer doing in this time? Why wouldn't he/she be available to work on improving the sounds while the rest of the team work on fixing the bugs that led to the delay?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
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  20. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, there's more chance of me waking up on Monday morning and see that I've received an e-mail from the lottery saying that I've won the jackpot and the cheque is going to be presented by Kylie Minogue who will then take me for a nice romantic dinner for two!
     
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  21. LodeStar

    LodeStar Member

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    Give the sound some more tender love and care...it needs (!) it! Compromising on train physics, sounds, appearance or line model accuracy is really a bad way to go forward...the trains are, after all, the most important assets of the game.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
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  22. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Imagine we woke up to “achievement simulator”, a game which enables you to dispel reality ;)
     
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  23. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This is what the live stream should have comprised of.

    Instead, it was a ‘done and dusted’ deal, with them basically saying ‘If you don’t like it, don’t buy it’. They clearly already knew everything that was wrong with the Class 150, however had already decided that they weren’t going to do anything about it, and ship it pretty much how it is. I was quite shocked at how little Rivet seemed to care about the issues. Attention was also quickly diverted away, as they tried to justify that things like medals and achievements are just as important.

    The Class 150 will no doubt be used again in the future, but with all the issues it has, what does it mean? They can either:

    1.) Keep it the way it is, with inaccurate sounds and physics, which will no doubt affect timetable timings, amongst other things.

    2.) Fix all the issues mentioned above. Be it themselves or pay DTG to fix it for them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
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  24. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    I offered Glenfiddich NUMEROUS TIMES to help test out their whisky for absolutely no payment but they haven’t asked for my thoughts once. That is an absolute disgrace. Shame on them.

    Same with BMW and Porsche.
     
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  25. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what point you’re trying to make, as it completely irrelevant to this thread? Other than trying to gain a few brownie points.

    You’re basically comparing and saying members of the community, who are offering to genuinely help with resources is the same as asking high level corporations to try out their products for free, which you automatically know what the outcome will be. Are you intentionally trying to mock people’s help?

    Please refrain from posting such off topic and irrelevant comments in the future, for everyone’s sake.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2021
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  26. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Removed by DTG Natster - Inappropriate behaviour directed towards another user.
     
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  27. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    There are some elements of the physics that are amazing….. when it is stopped at a station and it doesn’t move….that’s exactly like real life….they’ve done such a great job there. Now just the other 99% to finish doing,
     
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  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Since everyone seems to be annoyed and wanting rivet to fix the sounds on the 150, I wonder if the same people will want dtg to fix the sounds of their own trains that simply don't sound right. Trains such has the LIRR M7 which literally has no motor audio when in motion whilst or have motor audio in only the first two cars which hasn't been fixed for a year now. The 1972 Mark 2 Tube Stock which uses sounds from the Class 455 dlc which came out in 2011 for Train Simulator, the class 314 which is just too quiet despite using AP sounds, the Class 395 Javelin which some have pointed out sounds like Dostos at higher speed, the DB BR 422 and the list just goes on.

    Now before someone mentions the Preservation Crew, the problem that I have with them is whilst it's nice to have a team to fix issues with older dlc's, the problem is that it takes too long for fixes/improvements once they are done to come out and in the case of the LIRR M7 for example, the audio issue on that train hasn't been fixed in over a year. Also wouldn't the audio bug on the M7 be classified as a Class "A" bug considering the train has no audio when in motion? To sell a route for $30 with the base train not having any motor audio is ridiculous in my opinion

    The point of my post is that if people are gonna tell rivet that they need to fix their audio, then perhaps the same should be said to DTG for some of it's trains like the LIRR M7 which has had broken audio for over a year.
     
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  29. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    It should be the new ones. I personally think it's unreasonable to be going back years, the preservation crew is nice but actually I'm more interested in the new stuff in terms of gameplay and accuracy being correct
     
  30. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    There are degrees of sound errors. The 1972 stock is tolerable, Rivet’s effort with the 1938 stock isn’t. And yes, DTG should be going back in and retro fixing sound and physics on the older items, as resources permit.

    In the case of the 150, it isn’t out yet so they at least have a chance to fix something that is evidently completely wrong.
     
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  31. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    While I agree with your point I really don't think you should use language like that. It's this kind of attitude that gives DTG and Rivet a reason not to fix anything. Why should they when this is how we treat members of the community we disagree with. Please be a bit more understanding, you're giving the community a bad name.

    Edited by DTG Natster - Removed quoted text
     
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  32. zzw1983

    zzw1983 Active Member

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    Those companies have decades, if not 100+ years worth of reputation. Go 100 years into the future and ask about Rivet Games. Then your point will be sustained.

    As for DTG, better get on the ball because Derail Valley destroys this game with gameplay and physics with only 3 locos and one map...for $20. SimRails demo blows TSW's graphics out of the water. And if I want unrealistic gameplay, I'll choose something like Siberian Train Sim if it ever comes out. I'd rather fight rabid wolves with a chainsaw while drinking vodka stopped at a red signal than take off in a Flux Capacitor powered Class 150 that sounds like my stomach before breakfast. Just saying. ;)
     
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  33. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Good God. I was only being silly. Sorry if that didn’t come across.

    I can take the abusive comment from Ghawk2005 but he should think twice before abusing people in general. It is not acceptable behaviour either on this forum or anywhere else for that matter.
     
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  34. Geth_2234

    Geth_2234 Well-Known Member

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    Those DLC are already out and at least there are signs to say DTG are learning from there mistakes by using AP sounds and Matt asking the community for help. However the 150 isn’t even out yet and rivet have already stated more than once that they know the sounds are wrong but have no plans to do anything about it, and it’s not as if it’s just the sounds it’s the physics that are obviously wrong aswell as a diesel train shouldent be accelerating like an electrostar and shouldent sound like a lawn mower.

    I know DTG are not perfect but slowly but surly they do seem to be learning and making changes but rivet clearly haven’t learnt and have already said they have no intentions of fixing it, don’t get me wrong I think rivet have done a fantastic job with the model and some of the scenery but the sounds and physics really let the route down.
     
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  35. zzw1983

    zzw1983 Active Member

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    My apologies then. Can't tell over the internet. :|
     
  36. zzw1983

    zzw1983 Active Member

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    Rivet Games is starting to remind me of another company with zero regard to consumer satisfaction. I think their name was Ferrum Equester Dwelling or something lIke tHis or tHat. :D
     
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  37. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    No apology needed. :)
     
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  38. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that's the case, I believe they are just not capable of doing it, it's their second failed attempt at a diesel-hydraulic locomotive.
     
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  39. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Quite a sweeping statement not really backed up with evidence. I care about trophies but I also don’t consider myself a casual player. We have to get away from these generalisations for the good of the community. I also care about the sound and though I’m not a trainspotter I remember well from my time working for BR the grunt of the 150 as the driver put it in top whack leaving the platform. It was the first thing I listened for on the stream
     
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  40. Geth_2234

    Geth_2234 Well-Known Member

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    and I think this is why it’s so disappointing that it is just non exsistent because this is a very distinct loud sound and you can immediately tell a 150 from that alone and the first thing anyone who is farmiliar with the 150s look for.
     
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  41. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

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    Please remember when having a debate, you don't need to agree with each other, you don't even have to like each other, but there is never a need for name calling or being unpleasant towards each other.

    Be polite, and if you feel like you are unable to do so, consider not posting at all.
     
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  42. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Just an idea, but whilst Rivet have delayed their release, would it not be a good idea for them to reach out to the community and/or people that have the appropriate knowledge of the Class 150?
     
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  43. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Just found this
    This is what I included when I sent Rivet all the videos and the shared data Google drive….the text document was titled ‘‘150 Must Haves’

    They have just blatantly ignored most of the stuff. 2D62DDF9-9B0C-4BE0-8577-79133A555C3D.png
     
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  44. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

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    Bit Rude - customer care needs a little grace and elegance in replies.

    usual ‘ we hear you ‘ but bugger all going to be done about it.haha 84B1F3BC-C067-4992-A16B-EB9C3AA99785.jpeg
     
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  45. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Which bit was a bit rude?
    You have pointed out things again and again (ad nauseum)
    Would you prefer they told you which orifice to insert your head into?
     
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  46. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I was just thinking the exact same thing. Telling them what they already know and have already responded to, again and again, and expecting a different outcome, is going to test the patience of any customer service team.

    They know the sounds are wrong. ghawk2005 probably knew the sounds were wrong when he bought it and if it's such a problem, shouldn't have bought it.

    If you haven't bought it, don't buy it until the sounds are right - keeping hold of your money is a much better incentive for them to fix it than incessantly telling them what they already know.
     
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  47. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Except it's not actually out yet... :o
     
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  48. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    It was "out" for a few hours on xbox...
     
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  49. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    ...on general sale then!
     
  50. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    No matter what Rivet say (or don't say) at this point, people will criticise them.

    If they suggest improved sounds and/or physics, people will forever be nagging them for updates.

    I know the DLC is a bit rubbish, but they're a small team and continuing to update existing DLCs to perfection isn't economical.

    Personally I think DTG should step in and collaborate more with Rivet's projects, so more resources are available to revisit and improve DLCs, as well as helping to develop new ones from scratch more (e.g. DTG/Rivet Cathcart Circle collaboration). A quick preservation crew makeover of Isle of Wight, Arosa and presumably West Cornwall local to fix the major issues should really be considered. Quality control is important at this point, particularly as Rivet seem to be generating a negative image of DTG's 3rd party partner programme and somewhat TSW2 in general.
     
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