The Death Of The Suggestions Forum?

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by jolojonasgames, Jun 27, 2022.

  1. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,941
    Likes Received:
    3,221
    No, because it'd get lost, and we're unlikely to get a DTG reply when posting in the suggestions forums. The reason this topic has been posted in an inappropiate forum is exactly what's wrong with the suggestions forum.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  2. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    4,934
    Likes Received:
    8,013
    SCS have recently announced West Balkans for ETS2, but from what I can glean not anticipated much before the end of the year. This has started up the anticipation and interest quite nicely, the add-on is coming for certain and a bit of community input may help shape the final product.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,941
    Likes Received:
    3,221
    To be fair, even SCS gets plenty of replies it's taking quite long, since they've announced Texas quite a while back. I guess it's the same situation DTG found themselves in when the Class 313 was announced wwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyy before release.

    I don't have the feeling the community input really influences the shape of the final product. Ever since their Iberia DLC released with too few secondary roads, I think SCS only takes into account our feedback after a product has been released.

    Oh, and as for the DLC coming for certain... that's what we thought about the Russia DLC too... nothing is certain, until it actually happened.

    I mean, I often praise SCS, but there's some things that even SCS can't do right :P
     
  4. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    5,902
    Likes Received:
    8,382
    This sounds like a suggestion that should be posted in the suggestioms forum ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Messages:
    1,107
    Likes Received:
    2,069
    If I did that I'd have to condense it into one sentence ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    5,902
    Likes Received:
    8,382
    Touché ;)
     
  7. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,931
    Likes Received:
    4,283
    Are you talking about Bahnstrecke Riesa Dresden, the one with the Flughafen branch? that never released.
     
  8. simontreanor81

    simontreanor81 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2020
    Messages:
    271
    Likes Received:
    419
    Yes, exactly, the mistake was saying that the Flughafen branch was included when they couldn't guarantee this. Before this, though, it was announced as "Dresden - Riesa", which was safe - so you'd assume it'd be safe to give some details of the next route, if not full ones. There's a middle ground between over-promising and over-caution.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    9,185
    Likes Received:
    8,601
    Not sure they said it WAS included, but that they were working on it, and then it wasn't included and the world suddenly ended...
     
  10. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,931
    Likes Received:
    4,283
    Not sure. It's possible I am mistaken, I haven't checked but I remember that it was said it would be included together with the Meißen branch at launch. It was "officially" dropped when the price increase and the fact it would be a season pass were made public.
     
  11. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    9,185
    Likes Received:
    8,601
    As I said, I'm not sure it was "officially included" to be able to be "officially dropped" (maybe they just stopped talking about it...)
     
  12. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,931
    Likes Received:
    4,283
    I'll give this to you. I don't remember exactly and can't be bothered to look for it - and honestly knowing this community and myself I can see that happening.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    4,934
    Likes Received:
    8,013
    Well I guess that is a very specific case of a game being the victim of real world events. My personal view is that SCS should have released it anyway, maybe with a revised less evocative name and the proviso that the game does not represent any time period or political state, other than being post Soviet era. If need be some of the proceeds could have been donated to a suitable neutral charity.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    2,853
    Likes Received:
    5,654
    There's nothing wrong with having a suggestion " box ", as long as posters realize that their wish list is not going to lead to any content creation; " if wishes were horses " as they say. It's just a place where people can express their hopes and dreams. It's fine as it is.

    It's clear that DTG and their partners are not looking at the suggestion or any other forum when making development decisions. Where are any of the routes and especially the locos that people are constantly asking for? Who in the world would ever have thought of something as obscure as Cane Creek, albeit a fairly well made route as it turned out? Plenty of us asked for steam, but it was always going to come sooner or later, and I don't recall anyone suggesting Crewe to Liverpool, several suggested Somerset and Dorset. Was Cathcart ever suggested? Or was it Glasgow to Edinburgh or Fife that people wanted? And why didn't DTG make Hudson, clearly a more popular choice than Harlem, with much more potential? Sherman Hill without Track 3? That went down well.

    I'm not complaining about the choices that DTG and its partners are making. But let's just dispel the notion that we, as players, have any meaningful input via the suggestion or any other forum.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2022
    • Like Like x 5
  15. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    5,154
    Likes Received:
    13,551
    No. Suggestions are not pitches for investment, they are just suggestions. Having an extended list of requirements will result in fewer suggestions and introduce elitism into the forum. To DTG a one line suggestion shows interest in a route as much as a degree level thesis, and that’s what matters - how big is the market, how much interest is there, not how expertly crafted is the suggestion. The details of the DLC that ends up being made are entirely up to DTG or the 3rd party making them, and won’t ever include all the aspects of a highly detailed suggestion. This isn’t to say detailed suggestions aren’t welcome because they are.

    The people making suggestions should have the freedom to make their suggestions as good or as bad as they like and only spam and baseless thread bumping should be locked or deleted. There should not be a minimum requirement for entry such as the long list of inclusions given above. Keeping suggestions at the top of the page isn’t that important either and should happen naturally if players respond with support for a good suggestion by replying to it, and not replying to the bad suggestions to ask for more details or to actively point out how bad a suggestion is. Plus there are so many suggestions over the years that just being on the front page isn’t an indication of whether something should be made.

    To revive the suggestions forum, more engagement with the best proposals needs to happen. Good suggestions make better reading but it is extremely easy to ignore the bad ones, and everyone should feel entitled and encouraged to make a suggestion even if they can’t make that suggestion fit a certain quality criteria.
     
    • Like Like x 7
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    8,398
    Likes Received:
    12,269
    Well, that's half right: extensions, "No;" route merging, "We'd like to do that someday."
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2020
    Messages:
    773
    Likes Received:
    1,384
    I believe their general conclusions on extensions were maybe one day but for the foreseeable future, it makes more sense to do something new or different rather than adding on to something old. In fairness though, perhaps a third party might be interested in trying some day.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2021
    Messages:
    578
    Likes Received:
    871
    Maybe DTG could offer some guidance as far as the type of routes and locos that are more and less likely to be considered. What should we look for? Obviously, licenses are one important factor.
     
  19. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,795
    Likes Received:
    2,224
    I'd suggest you don't take to much time as desire is waning.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,931
    Likes Received:
    4,283
    Yeah, also the core issue will always remain unresolved, suggestions probably will never be the most important factors when deciding a route, it will remain just as a compass to roughly point them in the right direction. And making suggestions for anything outside the US/GER/UK area (+Canada and France HS) is just a waste of time.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  21. grdaniel48

    grdaniel48 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2020
    Messages:
    1,212
    Likes Received:
    1,771
    Please also let me comment the following about 2 other countries' routes:

    - French: TGV Mediterranee:
    I like TGV trains very much.
    But if the route it is only high speed, after some runs, it become boring. At least for me.
    That is the reason I do not purchased it.

    Please also notice I like to see "cabride" videos.
    From several countries, but mostly from Germany.
    But I never select one of a high speed line.
    I saw several of ICE but not running on them.

    - Swiss: Luzern to Suresee.
    I like Swiss trains very much too.
    But I do not purchase this route either!
    As it is boring for me too.
    Due to just one "commuter" train, very short route, and several problems.
    Rivet seems does not make a nice job here.

    So I will be waiting for another country route, but must be like the ones from UK, Germany or USA!
    Thus is:
    Longer route - around 60 km minimum / different type of trains - passenger + freight is ideal / nicely different things to do.

    Hopes this happens in the future!
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  22. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    3,425
    Likes Received:
    5,121

    Let me help

    German route with dostos
    Uk route with electrostars
     
    • Like Like x 4
  23. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2020
    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    925
    Realistically though if we haven't hit critical mass on routes in five years is it really worth assuming its ever gonna happen at this point? Because keep in mind five years for most games is a eternity, very few games can get 10 years of regular support. And frankly at the current pace they'd probably need another 10 years from today to get anywhere close to doing all the major modern American and British locos and routes which are still missing. Let alone having to factor in things like future steam routes, or adding/expanding upon countries outside the core three.
     
  24. euaningarfill

    euaningarfill Active Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2022
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    77
    I agree with the above 5 years in a what have we got a few routes max 50 miles for commuter
    Expanding routes is more than likely no at this point we dont even have the main commuter routes in the uk yet
     
    • Like Like x 1
  25. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2021
    Messages:
    578
    Likes Received:
    871
    U.S. routes with giant diesels?
     
    • Like Like x 3
  26. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    5,902
    Likes Received:
    8,382
    Amtrak NEC routes as well?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  27. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2019
    Messages:
    3,379
    Likes Received:
    7,531
    Modern US Freight route with a Wide Cab GE or EMD, and a SD40-2 or GP38-2.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  28. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,941
    Likes Received:
    3,221
    Rivet did that with their RhB network for Train Simulator. Uploaded a large portion of the network to the Steam Workshop for those who had bought all the required route DLCs.

    But unfortunately, Rivets TSW DLC doesn't get the same kind of reviews as their TSC DLC... I do hope that doesn't push them away from TSW though.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  29. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,941
    Likes Received:
    3,221
    I agree. But DTG already said that did LGV Marseille-Avignon only because it was high speed, not because it was French.

    Unfortunately, there seem to be plenty of high speed trains suggested in the suggestions forum. Which, I fear, means that if we'd eventually see a route from a country like Spain, Italy, France or Japan, it'll be another high speed one trick pony like LGV Marseille-Avignon.

    But I wouldn't mind a route like Köln-Aachen or München-Augsburg which runs high speed trains alongside regional and local trains.

    I agree. I had hoped Rivet to expand on the Arosa Line and develop more of the RhB network, so there was more variety in available trains, like they did with TSC. Even though I quite like Swiss route, and absolutely praise Rivet from developing outside of the big 3 countries, I didn't buy Luzern-Sursee, because not only is it a one-trick pony, it's also extremely short. Might grab it in a sale when on a big discount though.

    I agree, but I fear the chances are slim. DTG is tunnelvisioning on only three countries (easy money, it seems), and without a public editor it isn't easy for third parties getting started.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    4,934
    Likes Received:
    8,013
    Over there a few minutes ago and see the same route idea has been respammed twice today (the London to Princes Risborough one).

    Maybe it's just time for DTG to lock that forum down and be done with it.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  31. raptorengineer

    raptorengineer Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    292
    Likes Received:
    72
    ya but then people would post idea on other areas of forums.
     
  32. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2018
    Messages:
    1,941
    Likes Received:
    3,221
    That is, as I feel it, the only reason the suggestion forum exists; To keep the 'spam' away, and all suggestions being nicely posted in a forum that can easily be ignored by DTG.
     
  33. Amtrak_Fan

    Amtrak_Fan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2020
    Messages:
    143
    Likes Received:
    291

    Yea, it's very annoying when you write your heart out about a route you think should be in the game, to only get ignored. Not saying that I expect them to make an Amtrak Acela DLC out of this air, but at least let me know you see it.

    Another thing as well that I'm confused on is why DTG doesn't put the routes/loco DLC they are looking to make on a community poll. That way the community gets to actually choose the route the want, and DTG doesn't spend time making something that no one is going to buy. They can also use a poll like this to test the waters for new routes outside of the big 3 if needed. Having a poll where the community can choose what route you can work on next would be a huge step forward as well, in terms of gaining that bond with the community, because right now, that bond isn't looking too hot Dovetail.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  34. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,474
    Likes Received:
    1,831
    Aye. If I remember correctly he rambled on about his past trainspotting experiences at Crewe.
    100% agree. It’s really frustrating when this happens. DTG should pin a suggestion guide to the sub forum.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  35. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2021
    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    1,250
    Out of interest, how do you know these are the most requested routes in years? Considering the complexities of each route, the distances and different train types needed, it would take ages for such a route to get to a level of immersive realism with a busy timetable and appropriate rolling stock etc.
    BR Blue, Steam, Class 150 etc??
    Great Western Main Line, Brighton Main Line?
     
  36. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2021
    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    1,250
    Why every suggestion would love to be reality, I think there has to be some realism too.

    Why there is criteria for choosing a particular route, I think that even if a certain route hasn't been suggested much, if at all, but if such a route existed on the same (or nearby) route network, maybe it's a stepping stone to that more requested route later. A great example is BML and ECW, the AI traffic alone at Brighton on London Commuter is absolutely fantastic with 313s, plus the odd 166 from GWE, and certainly adds to the immersion - that wouldn't have been without ECW coming first.

    I like the idea of modular routes that coexist with existing routes which potentially offer more variety than a standalone route.
     
  37. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    9,185
    Likes Received:
    8,601
    They really are almost constant on the suggestions forum from the London end to up North...
    BR blue were generally a while ago, most of 2021 was Electrostar stuff (SEHS, BML), yes the 150 but that was Rivet not DTG and yes SoS but not everyone is interested in steam. Where are the core basics of anything outside of the South East? The sprinters, Alphalines, turbostars, voyagers. These things make up a huge variety of runs outside of London and they could almost populate whole regions (and timelines) with those, the 166s and 43s
    That's 2 of probably 20 commuter lines into the London area...
     
    • Like Like x 2
  38. smugstarlord#4202

    smugstarlord#4202 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2021
    Messages:
    372
    Likes Received:
    489
    I've posted suggestions in the past amd DTG have quoted that they look into it and generally produce the most requested etc.
    Yet, I've seen alot of suggestions for ECML for TSW2 since TSW 2020. Given that's its a popular suggestion and wanted by the TSW community, I find it disheartening when we get something different that I've rarely seen requested.
    Maybe it's just me
     
    • Like Like x 1
  39. MrSouthernDriver

    MrSouthernDriver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2020
    Messages:
    277
    Likes Received:
    1,162


    well said alex
     
  40. euaningarfill

    euaningarfill Active Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2022
    Messages:
    107
    Likes Received:
    77
    GWE YES but old and only goes to reading and all needs redoing
    Brighton mainline is not really a mainline not long distance
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2022
  41. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    376
    Likes Received:
    602
    Death may be your santa claus.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  42. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2021
    Messages:
    561
    Likes Received:
    1,250
    Just to be clear, I am all for modern UK routes from any part of the country. While I'm bias to third-rail routes/rolling stock DLC in the South East because these are local for me, and will always be my favourite regardless. It's just when people keep referring to all UK routes as being just electrostar, while there's a couple in recent times, people forget there's plenty other UK-based routes too.

    I mean, look how long we had to wait for Spirit of Steam, an era I will never be interested in on TSW 2.
     
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  43. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    5,902
    Likes Received:
    8,382
    Of course there are other UK based routes but this whole Electrostar generalization is down to the fact that 3 modern British routes feature Electrostars to the point where the experience gets quite repetitive even if there are some improvements. Personally I think DTG need to branch out of making modern UK Routes in the Southeast and perhaps consider doing different routes not centered around the southeast UK. As you say, not all routes are just in the southeast
     
    • Like Like x 2
  44. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,795
    Likes Received:
    2,224
    The suggestions forum should be tidied up and make it easier for the community to make suggestions for the game. Obviously routes but also there are gameplay features. Like a scoring system that makes sense and takes into account how the train was driven and also things like a career mode to give a bit more meaning to the journeys for immersion for the players that want it.

    As for routes I too think DTG should get away from London. There are too many imo English routes involving London. The GWE was only a third of the route and if it had gone to say Bristol would have easily been the best in TSW2 imo. I would have like going to Cardiff but that will never happen. Cardiff to Didcot or Didcot to Birmingham via Oxford would be a change of scenery set in the 80's?

    They could have the most popular suggestions stickied or something to see how popular they get.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  45. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    3,425
    Likes Received:
    5,121
    The problem with this is the two most requested routes are still not as far as we know been started in the last 5 yrs.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  46. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    4,934
    Likes Received:
    8,013
    Which neatly brings us back around to how pointless the Suggestions forum really is, other than as triage to coral the, “I want” posts in one place.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  47. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    3,425
    Likes Received:
    5,121
    I can’t help thinking that a suggestion picked up by DTG Of completing a decent length modular ECML or WCML route would light these forums up far more than an empty steam route. I for one won’t buy anymore steam specific routes seeing how dead they looked scenery wise
     
    • Like Like x 2
  48. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2020
    Messages:
    773
    Likes Received:
    1,384
    To be honest for me, I'd want DTG to build-up a better repository of potential layers for the WCML and ECML before tackling them.

    At best we get maybe three different trains included with a route and usually at least one of these will be a repeat or modification of one we already have, for either the ECML or WCML logically that would be the 66. So then we'd have two units, presumably a high-speed and a stopper so a 390 and a 350 for the WCML and an Azuma plus a 700 or something else depending on the stretch of route. Naturally, chances are we'd only get one subclass of each so the route would be pretty quiet.

    I think for the most part we probably would expect the sections of Main Line to be longer than any other British route that has come so far. I'd like to see that space used properly and at the moment we simply don't have the rolling stock to support that. So for me at least, I don't mind holding off on the WCML and ECML for a while longer and focus some attention on new routes and loco add-ons which would make good layers for these routes, and fill in some more of the national network in doing so. Modern routes in the West Midlands, Wales, North of England, Scotland and even parts of East Anglia will not only expand the modern UK routes beyond the South of England but add extra potential for various sections of the East and West Coast Main Lines.

    Both of those routes really should be the absolute flagship of TSW's British content and I'd like to see them release out of the gate with like the Brighton Main Line did in terms of its layers and timetable (and a little more reliable of course) and really be the stand out must-have routes for TSW rather than being a watered-down version for which we have to wait years to make the route come alive with all the trains and services it should have.

    So for me, I'd like DTG to consider which section of either the WCML or ECML they'd like to build first and then focus their next British add-ons on building up the potential layers that can be used for that section and then start work on the big major main line.
     
  49. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2020
    Messages:
    798
    Likes Received:
    925
    The big problem with WCML & ECML is that they're long, and I don't think they can be divided into small sections as easily. With ECML I think the smallest section done for TS Classic is 70 miles, and even that's a bit longer than everything else in TSW. And keep in mind that the longest routes in TSW are currently rural freight routes like Sherman Hill and Clinchfield. You can reuse assets a lot when most of the scenery is trees and shrubs, you can't do that so convincingly in populated areas. Hell, I've seen people criticize Harlem's depiction of New York, and that's one of the shorter routes in the sim. I don't see how they're gonna take ECML on without needing to really cheap out on asset development.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  50. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    4,934
    Likes Received:
    8,013
    I always remember years ago a guy postulating he wanted to create the whole ECML for MSTS, accurate to every building for some distance out from the lineside. I think his UKTS nickname was GoingNorth. The project was last seen going nowhere...

    WCML you could do something like Euston to Milton Keynes, or the Trent Valley from Rugby to Stafford. But if you go further north then you have longer runs between logical nodes - Preston to Carlisle or Carlisle to Glasgow. I guess Crewe to Preston might be do-able but it's not the most prepossessing of routes as seen in the bit covered by SoS.
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page