The Death Of The Suggestions Forum?

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by jolojonasgames, Jun 27, 2022.

  1. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if dtg have remodelled assets from tsc? I've seen a few assets in tsw that look pretty familiar to those in tsc
     
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  2. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Regarding UK routes I think it is about time DTG were called out on this. All the routes are English routes bar one and that bizarrely was not a UK route but a Scottish route. We still haven't a route involving Wales and N.Ireland, don't these countries count DTG? So much for your precious 'inclusivity' eh?
     
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  3. euaningarfill

    euaningarfill Active Member

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    I gather to do with dev time how big is a wales route ?
    But then they would need to make new stock
     
  4. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    The GWE starts in Wales and it could go to Didcot and use existing stock, HST and set it in the 80's. I'd pay for it.
     
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  5. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    According to Wikipedia, 147 countries have railways. TSW2 has six countries represented (so far). I'm going out on a limb to suggest that the reasons are other than discrimination.

    And now I've also learned that Vatican City has a railroad! One passenger train a week on Saturday mornings, plus the odd inbound freight. The line length is only 0.68 km, though, but as a fun little addition to the main game package....
     
  6. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    They do on occasion as was confirmed on stream.
     
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  7. euaningarfill

    euaningarfill Active Member

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    Again tsw 6 countrys so far tsw is 5 years down the line only 6 countrys because no third party access
     
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  8. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    That wasn't my point. DTG are free to put in any country's Railway they deem fit but I doubt they have permission to mis-represent countries though, I could be wrong on that. The term 'UK' is four countries not just one. I say one as apparently Cathcart is a scottish route and not a UK route for some reason.
     
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  9. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I mean dtg do like to copy, paste and tweak so it wouldn't surprise me to be honest.
     
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  10. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Cathcart Circle is a U.K route. Scotland is in the U.K. Well it may not be in a few years if the SNP gets their way.
     
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  11. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Short enough for a Rivet route.
     
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  12. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Costing $24.99 as well ;)
     
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  13. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    There is plenty of scope for 50 mile routes set in Wales. Something from the Valleys a good first choice, then a 50 mile budget buys you a good chunk of the SWML - Cardiff to Swansea is around 46 miles. Or you could do Cardiff to Maesteg and include the VOG along with Barry Island. Mid Wales well you could do Shrewsbury to Machynlleth or Machynlleth to Pwllheli but the problem there is low service levels. North Wales Coast well Chester to Llandudno might just about be doable and would give a nice estuarial/coastal run with scope for steam specials too.
     
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  14. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    All remember this one, november 2020?
    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/list-of-top-23-route-suggestions-for-tsw-2.31425/

    Now lets see what became of it...

    1. WCML... nope
    2. ECML... nope
    3. Australia... nope
    4. London Underground... check
    5. Netherlands... nope
    6. Liverpool - Manchester... not really, but we've got Liverpool in SoS
    7. Pacific Surfliner... nope
    8. London - Portsmouth... nope
    9. NYC Subway... nope
    9. Midland Mainline... nope
    9. Edinburgh - Glasgow... not really, but we've got Glasgow in Cathcart Circle
    10. Metro North... nope
    11. Riviera Line... nope
    12. NEC... check (but we 'lost' New York - New Rochelle)
    12. London - Birmingham... nope
    13. Italy... nope
    14. Japan... nope
    15. Canada... kinda (Oakville was released way before this list was made)
    15. South Western Mainline... nope
    15. West Highland Line... nope
    16. Marias Pass... nope
    17. Scotland... check
    17. Sherman Hill... check
    18. Norfolk Southern... nope
    18. London - Norwich... nope
    18. LIRR extension... nope
    18. Gotthard Line... nope
    19. Berlin... nope
    19. LGV... check
    19. Merseyrail... nope
    19. New Zealand... nope
    20. Tyne & Wear Metro... nope
    20. France... kinda (DTG said they only made Marseille-Avignon because it was high speed, not because it was French)
    20. Chicago... nope
    20. Cambrian Coast Line... nope
    21. Settle - Carlisle... nope
    21. Eurostar... nope
    21. London - Peterborough... nope
    22. Fife Circle Line... nope
    22. GEML... nope
    22. Horseshoe Curve... check (third party)
    22. Hudson Line... nope
    22. Isle of Wight... check (third party)
    23. Switzerland... check (third party)
    23. Austria... nope
    23. Cajon Pass... nope
    23. London - Edinburgh... nope
    23. India... nope
    23. North Wales Coastal... nope
    23. Orient Express... nope
    23. Severn Valley Railway... nope
     
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  15. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Let's be honest, most of those suggestions are a bit daft; some are duplicates with different names, most require multiple pieces of new stock to flesh out a timetable, most are too long and/or complex, and most other countries listed likely won't be produced by DTG for various reasons discussed elsewhere...

    I have no idea why that list even exists in the first place if most suggestions on it are unlikely to appear.
     
  16. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    I don't agree, the top 10 is pretty solid and no reason not to make those items either by DTG or a third party. Australia is the one of those least likely but there are loads of people wanting Dutch and the UK routes in the top 10 are very successful on TSC and always heavily asked for.

    Yes they might have to make some new stock but isn't that one of the biggest gripes now? Another electrostar route oh joy! It is right that they should budget for new stock in their new routes but also with an eye on layering things up. So choosing new stock would also be usable on existing routes. That way they are creating a new route and improving existing ones.
     
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  17. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    It was from a poll, and those were the "top answers"
     
  18. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    The suggestions are a bit vague though - sure if people want a route in Australia you'd then have to look at specific routes in Australia that are suitable and would be popular, which is opening up another can of worms. Other suggestions there like the Riviera Line are fairly self-explanatory, even though there's no mention of included stock.

    Regarding stock, we've come to expect now we'll get maybe two new locos and a few new coaches/wagons at most. Some routes would require more than that to make a decent timetable, which I don't see happening simply by the backlash DTG would get if they released a route with only a fraction of the real services.
     
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  19. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    I think I remember a player survey from a couple of years ago where the final question asks "what route(s) do you want to see most in TSW?" I guess it could be from that. The only real use I suppose would be to gauge whether the playerbase wants a certain type of route in particular, such as the recent increase in US passenger routes.
     
  20. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Uh, number 10 is something we did get. We got the Metro-North Harlem line even though the M7A sound is bugged, got a cut down version of the full electrified line and the southern part of the route in Manhattan is just terrible
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2022
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  21. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I suspect though it's more a case of what DTG and their associates were working on, happened to coincide with the list. Rather than the person in charge going, "Ooooh, that's a good idea - book the flights/hotels/conference with the operator and get right on it."
     
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  22. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    That's a Rivet route right there :p :):o
     
  23. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    I know it's been said that a 50 mile route is about the limit. But I'm curious how 2 50 mile lengths of track within close proximity of each other would work?
     
  24. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    As it stands it would be two separate routes with two separate timetables and two separate asset lists, so let's say you have Rugby to Stafford that would be one route with it's own timetable, then say they made Liverpool to Stafford (60 miles, but it's an example) that would be a different route with a different timetable. Could you run Rugby to Liverpool or vice versa? As it stands no
    Would they be able to easily make a timetable that "chops itself up" into the DLC people have? I haven't seen anything to say yes...
     
  25. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    It was the work of DTG Protagonist collecting and summarizing the most suggested routes by the community. Pretty sure he used the suggestions forum, but perhaps other sources of social media as well.

    DTG mentioned the most popular suggestions in a stream, and a few community members converted that back to a list on the forums.
     
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  26. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    fairly sure Harlem is metro north & HSC is Norfolk Southern so thats another 2 checked, 14 (depending how you're counting) out of 23 aint that bad really especially considering some of those are completely impractical, and do we really need yet another London centric 3rd rail route (London - Portsmouth)??
     
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  27. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    On the other hand DTG I believe mentioned their first pick was the Piccadilly line for the underground, and I think that was due to its popularity. So while we did get a London Underground line, that wasn't even the number one choice. Also I know when the Scotland route was announced people were very surprised because it wasn't even on the radar of most people. So while it does fill the criteria of a Scottish route, it's almost certainly something that wouldn't have been picked for popularity.
     
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  28. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    No but we really do need an Eastleigh - Poole route :p

    Hentis
     
  29. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    Say both routes started and ended at the same stations. I'm not talking about merging I mean building the route from scratch.
     
  30. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I don't see it so much as "what power source is there", I see it more "is there any stock on this route which would more easily allow other routes" and yes... there would be. The 450 could be turned into a 350 easily enough, used from Euston and across the Northwest, so yeah OK it's another 3rd rail route, but the trains ARE substantially different from the Electrostars, and we need their shells for other things
     
  31. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    So as an example Leeds to York via Church Fenton and Leeds to York via Harrogate?
    No different. Two DLC, two routes, two assets, two timetables.
     
  32. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    We have zero modern image routes in the UK which aren't 3rd rail and/or running out of London, the with the sole exception of cartcart which is another electric suburban route. Give it a break and let's have something different for a change.
     
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  33. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    Oh I see. That's a bummer! Tsc can do multiple routes. Tsw has got the eye candy but not the variety.
     
  34. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    So long as that "different" isn't only used on a single route like a Pendo or an 87, no problem. There are very good routes out there where the assets can be used similar to the ones on the German routes, but DTG don't seem to like working that way
     
  35. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    DTG could make one large DLC with different routes in it, but it's not how DTG have made their DLC so far
     
  36. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    That's what I ment. I was asking if that was possible.

    Like the route I'm making now on tsc. I started with the 1066 line. Branched off at Robertsbridge to Tenterden. Branched off at tunbridge wells Central to eridge. From eridge to Crowborough with the cuckoo branch to Polegate. Eridge to three bridges line with the branch running to east grinstead and I'm currently on the bluebell branch from east grinstead.

    If I can do all this in my spare time from home why can't dtg with a team of developers the money and resources do something along the same lines.

    I like tsw but there only so many times you can drive back and forth from London to Brighton before it becomes rather boring, and with the lack of freight activities like loading and unloading then joining the mainline for a run to say Stewarts Lane. I'm starting to wonder if there's any one left at dtg with a real passion for trains.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2022
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  37. Coastway trainspotter

    Coastway trainspotter Well-Known Member

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    I reckon all threads posted in the platform specific forums should be authorised by a member of dtg staff before it is made public
     
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  38. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Possible, but it's whether it's likely... I keep suggesting the North Kent Lines which all start at Cannon Street and Charing Cross and end at Dartford (or Gravesend if you want that extension) and that falls within 50 route miles which seems to be DTG's self imposed limit

    Financial pressure. You doing something in your own time can't be compared to what someone is paying someone good money to do, the same as you wouldn't be expected to produce the same level of content as they do because you're an amateur and not getting paid (I presume)

    I can see why people might say this, but I doubt anyone could suggest that Matt and Jamie aren't train fans. Sam is a game fan which is slightly different but he obviously has a passion for the product. But in the end it comes down to who is giving the direction of what can be done and that's possibly coming from higher up
     
  39. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

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    They have to budget their resources. The projected sales that say how much the overall cost would be if they were making such a route like what you are doing in TSW. The amount of staff that are not only allocated to create the route, but the rolling stock scenario's, timetables all has to be costed. Everything has to have a cost to make the an eventual target price of £24.99 (or what ever you $ or Euro equivalent is). With everything involved in that route it would possibly take away another team from developing another route as well. so do they budget for that. Its all down to cost at the end of the day.

    Hentis
     
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  40. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    The North Kent line would be a great addition. Why they have never done it is anyone's guess. This is on my list for future projects.

    I know there's financial pressure but look how dtgs turnover more than doubled since going into the console market. There estimated turnover was 40m in 2021. Up from 16m in 2018

    If dtg announced a new route that was gigantic with hours and hours of activities and fun but at the same time put a hefty price tag on it, I'd buy it. Ive spent thousands on tsc, like many others.

    I wouldn't say Matt and other members of the dev ain't got no passion for trains but they ain't pulling the strings. Like you say that's higher up the ladder.
     
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  41. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Seems a bit odd to compile a vague list of routes with some simply specifying countries, especially with the duplicates like London - Birmingham and WCML, or London - Edinburgh, London - Peterborough and ECML. Wouldn't you just condense them into one?
     
  42. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    If dtg released a large route with multiple branch lines going here there and everywhere with loads of activities, I'd buy it even if it come with for example a £500 price tag. It beats spent 10k on a large train set.
     
  43. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    What, should TSW be run by plebiscite?

    Polls like the above help DTG see what kinds of things players (or at least, that segment of the player base who are on the forum) are interested in. That does not mean being obligated to produce a particular route because it topped a poll! Some streams back, Matt talked some about the factors DTG's top brass consider when choosing a new route. Polls, suggestions etc factor into the process- but not verbatim. For example, there was no particular demand for Cathcart Circle- TMK it was never mentioned by anyone - but DTG perceived a market for a) Scotland and b) a UK urban commuter service.
     
  44. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The problem is, you and the other four people willing to pay five hundred quid for a route would gross DTG £2500. Not much of a production budget.
     
  45. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    Yet people have got no problem paying 600 quid for a handful of small routes!
     
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  46. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    The problem making a substantially larger route is A) you're concentrating all your efforts in a particular country/region B) there will likely be less variety of train operators/service types C) the sheer development time needed and lack of releases in between D) the limited market of people willing to spend hundreds of pounds on one route in one go E) the complexity might not even allow it to run smoothly or at all - let alone constructing and testing a functioning timetable (which some routes already seem to struggle with).
     
  47. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    A - DTG have several dev teams, they could allocate just one and make one big route whilst the other two (and 2nd and 3rd parties) continue as they usually do
    B - I don't know too many places where 500 miles of track wouldn't give a vast array of services
    C - refer to A
    D - The routes could be split into sections for those who don't want longer runs or bigger payments, but if you buy the big package you get everything
    E - I would suggest they can only do this sort of thing when they have a few things:
    • dynamic loading of DLC including routes, locos and other assets
    • dynamic timetabling including alternate platforms (which they're working on for bakerloo) as well as general timetable. This would allow them to import RTT or similar rather than needing to do every stop by hand
    • maybe even dynamic route tiles. Would allow to switch between time periods and track layouts with the same tile structure.
    Yes it's a lot of work, but if you're working on 500 route miles, ten trains and maybe 3 timetables that's worth a fair amount...
     
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  48. dangerousdave

    dangerousdave Well-Known Member

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    I'm not particularly saying build a gigantic route. 500 was just an example. Or stick to one country. But when they are gonna make 2 routes in close proximity, like ecw and bml. Both routes in one dlc with a £50 price tag sounds more appealing then 2 separate dlc's and vastly reducing the amount of activities that can come of it.
     
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  49. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Then we're drifting into the realm of route merging... In one go it wouldn't be practical at all.
     
  50. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    But they need to make routes that appeal to more than the forum anyways. For example if you know anything about US railroading Sherman Hill and Horseshoe Curve are obvious picks. They're incredibly popular locations in real life, and they have tons of history behind them. You don't need JohnDoeJr to come in and make his thread on Sherman Hill to know that. And as you noted later...
    So they clearly can make routes without consulting it, and I'd bet very few routes even are using the forum suggestions as a major factor. If they are using popularity I'd bet it's more about gauging what routes are popular off-site.
     

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