...what reason is there for me to pay £40 for a game that will be obsolete in a year? Why shouldn't I wait until TSW5?
12 months fun with a load of new features and £120 worth of new content not enough for you? If not then you are welcome to continue as you are with TSW3 and wait for TSW5, nobody is forcing you.
Because otherwise your current game becomes "obsolete". The enjoyment you had with this game will totally disappear. Everything in TSW3 will still work and be present as it is today but the knowledge that there is a version called TSW 4 will suck all the enjoyment out of TSW3.
No offense to the OP's opinion but it reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend a few years ago. Something along the lines... 'Why spend money on eating food everyday when you've got to poop it out the next morning...'
And at that point wait for TSW6, at which point you will wait for TSW7, then TSW will get rereleased every 6 months and then by 2035 will be TSW27, and then it will get rereleased every 3 months and by 2060 it will be TSW543
Got to agree. Don't want to see censorship on here but really what's the point of another complaining thread. OP could easily tag their thoughts in one of the several existing, "Why..." threads and be done with it. Anyhow to answer the question, straight off the top of my head I can think of three good reasons and a fourth - the new routes and Flying Scotsman pack which if you qualify for the discounts on PC costs little more than one normal DLC. I have a feeling all three of the new routes are going to be great, in fact I'm going to be torn which one to play first. If you have at least the slightest interest in this game then you are going to want to try the new editors. Oh and a fifth reason just occurred to me - the forthcoming JT Blackpool to Ormskirk route is going to be a mecca for classic BR traction fans and you get to drive one of the most iconic (for all the wrong reasons!) second generation DMU's, the Class 142 Pacer! Bring it on. I can't wait for 21st September.
At least, in the gaming industry and the entertainment industry per se you pay for "hour count of entertainment" IMO. So, a movie that entertains you for about 2 hours costs (if you buy it on disk or even digital) something about 15$ (17€). An regular AAA game (open world or not) asks you to pay about 50-100$ (60-110€) for about 15-30hours of game-play. Open world games deliver a bit more non-story game-play additionally. These games or movies are basically obsolete as soon as you have seen (the movie) or completed the story (in games). TSW is nothing else. It delivers game-play-hours for money. You can easily calculate how much you pay for each hour of entertainment. I am pretty sure a TS game is on the top front of all these things with giving the most hours of play for less money than other entertainment products. PS: please do not compare with rental services like Netflix or such. These are different things. TSW is not offering these services.
I am not interested in the new routes, nor in a steam loco when they are still unfinished two years (and two games!) after their initial release. I am interested in the Blackpool route, but not £70 worth of interested. I think you'll find that a great many games offer more hours than TSW for a much lower price... Plus, not all "hours of play" are equal. I'd rather spend 10 hours on a good game than 20 hours on a mediocre one.
Well If you don't buy new content then there's no problem. If you want to buy new content, well yes then you've to upgrade. I agree it can be annoying if you've to buy stuff you don't really want. I think it would be good if DTG will release an upgrade version which is cheaper without any routes. This would probably affect their sales so it could also be an option to release this version after a month or two.
Well if none of it interests you fair enough but you would have to be (IMHO) a fairly lightweight train simmer not to look forward to at least one of the forthcoming routes - given they are pretty much an improved microcosm of what the game generally offers anyway. Maybe TSC would be more to your taste...
But TSW4 doesn't just lock new content behind a paid upgrade. It also locks fixes for existing content behind a paid upgrade. What a totally baseless accusation of "lightweightness".
You could wait for a sale, in six months TSW4 might be available for £20 or even less if you wait longer, you are obviously not in a hurry to get it so don't spend the £40, simple. Or maybe wait to see if the Blackpool route includes the TSW4 core, some of the early TSW3 DLC like the Cross City included the TSW3 core. It is surprising we haven't had any threads discussing this in the last few days.............
I have a couple of issues with continued paid upgrades. The first one is the biggest and it's fragmentation. Having your player base on various incompatible versions of your product makes no financial sense if your main business model is selling additional content to players, and not in selling the base game itself. This means that players who are interested in new content will also have to consider a "cost of admission" which may have impact on sales. My other problem comes from the editor and user generated content. I haven't heard them talk at all about compatibility with the editor, they have made no commitment to maintain compatibility with both current and future versions of Train Sim World with regards to the editor. It could be this time next year Editor V3 comes out for TSW5 only and user content creators will be unable to improve that content on older games anymore because the editor will only produce TSW5 content. Personally I'd like to see a commitment to maintain editor support similar to how Microsoft offers support lifetimes for Windows for a number of years.I'm not saying 10 years but at even committing to support the editor for TSW4 for at least 2 years after release doesn't seem unreasonable to me. I think the longer they can maintain backwards compatibility the better but I also don't want the past holding up future developments forever like it has done in TSC.
You don't know what routes will be coming in the next 12 months. Without TSW4, you won't get to enjoy any of them. Or any of the new features that come with it. Surely one or two of them interests you. Actually, don't know why I'm responding. Isn't this what they call " click bait "?)
Nailed it (in true German logical fashion). I have paid $89 CAD + tax for games that were done in 10-12 hours. I have paid $89 CAD + tax for games that I played for 40 minutes and never touched again because they sucked. TSW2 I have approx 250 hours. TSW3 I have over 300 hours. Yes DLC and addons increase the investment in the game but even individual routes often give me more play time than entire other games. So yeah, its worth it to me at the end of the day. Plus like I've been mentioning in other threads TSW4 comes with 3 routes for $53 CAD so it is basically a 3 for the price of 1 route package that happens to include a new core game with other updates that look neat. Not sure why so many people are moaning and it is getting annoying. If the math doesn't add up and you don't think its worth your money just don't buy it.
I mentioned Stray (which I paid £25 for) in another thread and while it's a great game, if you ignore the B12 memories and other side missions, you can speed run through it in 2 hours. Replay value is fairly limited as the plot is linear, unlike Fallout 4 or similar.
For me, ETS2 and ATS are the absolute champions when comparing hours of game play for the price paid.
You are, but you could have done so in any one of the numerous other threads already opened with this subject on the forum. no need to start an entire thread just to state one more opinion.
Yeah, it's a different game for each individual person for sure. I just wanted to say that the paid price divided by hours of entertainment ist quite good in TSW. There are way way more expensive ways to being entertained by some product and no one is complaining about it at all, they all just pay or don't care about it at all. This is so different in the gaming industry. Lots of people who are not really interested (by their says) in the product keep complaining against it. Why. Just don't care about it when you don't want to buy it. Other people have their very own mind and don't need so much negative input from others to build their opinion about a game or whatever else.
I think TSW has a great deal of potential, so it makes me sad the way the community is treated by DTG.
In general I agree except for the bit about complaining. I suppose it depends on the manner in which the complaint is made. Sending back a meal because its not satisfactory is, while risky, born of a desire to see it rectified or improved. Not caring is an abdication of the desire to push for improvements so in a strange way, the level of complaints is a testament to the level of interest. Cost comes into it to because then you have a level of expectation attached to that cost. An expensive meal in a restaurant has a higher level of expectation than a take out. There's plenty of terrible games out there where people have given up, or never complained in the first place. Its when the complaints stop that youve either got a serious problem or youve absolutely nailed it.
Well you're in the fairly small minority club that feels sad, as majority of the player base are all very happy and looking forward to driving the new trains on the new routes, creating new stuff as they are learning how the editor works and I guess your just be there with your face pressed up to the window looking in fuming that we are all having a great time and your not......
You misunderstand. I do not think the new features are bad. I just don't think they're worth £40 absent some sort of assurance that I won't have to pay another £40 in a year's time (the editor makes this particularly relevant).
Unfortunately some of the improvements that got quoted for TSW4 are specific to locos and DLC coming post-release and dont apply to past DLC which IMHO (unless DTG implement it on older DLC eventually) doesn't really add up for value for money. There's other reasons but I've already mentioned elsewhere before.
Or you could just scroll past and not click on it. In the grand scheme of things, threads that are criticising TSW4 are still the minority.
If you buy it you will have it and can enjoy it, if you don’t buy it you won’t have it. There’s your reason.
The problem is it is allready TSW4 and we have still the same bugs. Like they are some heritage of this game... broken npc,signalling, pantos, lihts, sounds, scenarios, achievements, lightning, physic, timetables... It is not the case of money worth but melting community trust towards DTG promises. I don't see editor, free roam, or planner working as intended, they couldnt fix planner 1.0, cc for two years... My predictions are full of DTGs empty promises to fix TSW4 till its end. It is just cold prognosis based on cold statistics.
You don't have to pay 40 quid at launch. There are likely to be bundles down the line where you will be able to buy just the route you want and the core game, for less than 40 quid. Or sales/discounts... Meanwhile, you can stick with what you have. As for assurances, DTG have already proven that they cannot be trusted to keep their promises. What could they possibly say now that would make you believe that there won't be a new release next year?!
You've made my point for me - why on Earth should I give money to a completely untrustworthy company?
I am sure one of the bundles is available for 30 quid so surely you'd be looking at buying that one rather than the 40 quid one.
Well, if you truly believe that they are completely untrustworthy, then don't spend your money on their products, including TSW4. The consensus here, however, is that, while some fixes have gone awol, the game is eminently playable and, for the most part, enjoyable. And, judging by forum posts, most players think that TSW4 is full of fun content, good value for money and are looking forward to it. And, furthermore, there's nothing to suggest that TSW4 will be " obsolete in a year ". TSW1, 2 and 3 are full of routes that people will be playing for years to come.
To address a couple of points here, I really do think DTG are completely untrustworthy, throughout the years they’ve been caught up in several lies & even recently, there have been various ‘inconsistencies’. I’m not bringing this up to start an unhinged rant about how I’ll be taking legal action, or how DTG have ruined my life etc. My approach is different, personally I have to accept that DTG have cornered off the market for this hobby & try as they might, other trainsim devs just aren’t making headway. So what do I do? It’s simple, buy the content I really like, based on what it is. None of the “we Plan on”, “this will be added post launch” & “a fix is in the works”. Every other dev stream for TSW 3 contained some lead on for TSW 2 updates, now TSW 4 is here & those are all cancelled, with the same spiel starting for TSW 3. I used to be a very avid customer & less picky about my purchases, taking punts etc. No longer do I find myself doing that, while I can accept flaws & mistakes here and there, I can’t put up with the constant repeated issues in content followed by the lies about them being fixed or updated. I think the drama on both sides lately is out of hand, I am irked by posts such as this, they’re all mostly created by people that have been on the forum for over a year & have played prior to TSW 2/3. By this point they must know what DTG are like & I do think it’s a case of get over it or just move on from them. The other thing that’s getting annoying is how far people seem to be going to pretend DTG don’t do the things they get accused of. TSW 4 does add some great features & interesting rolling stock/routes, but that doesn’t absolve DTG from its long standing issues. it’s a list that I’m sure someone could & will make a constructive post about, but it’s nothing we haven’t seen before. I can still get excited about content, but overall I’m just demotivated when it comes to the future of this product.
That´s the balanced view I share and agree on. It´s not black and white, it´s not 8 or 80. It´s in between. Well written. Thanks!
Delayed gratification rules for this game. Buy late and cheap. They'll make their profits from day oners. We're railfans! Waiting is in our blood!
Totally different paradigm. You run one train on a single map with a fictional setting. You have to do all the route setting and navigate yourself, often having to refer to complex charts and diagrams to see where you need to go. At best it’s Trainz meets Railroad Tycoon. Don’t misunderstand me, have enjoyed some time on DV but following the last update when I was dumped back at The Harbour looking in the station office for a job, finding I no longer had a “licence” for the big diesel so had to use the shunter to take four wagons to the Steelworks it lasted 10 mins and I was back on TSW.
The point of my post was about the speed and nature of updates. I knew it would likely be triggering and also be misunderstood and so I deleted it. FYI if you ever see a post of mine, its probably a good idea to wait 5 minutes. Ill probably edit it or delete it lol.
Not really, just you are not comparing like for like. Besides DV has been out for something like three years and only now are they coming out of early access into the simulator mode. And yes I fully appreciate they are a small, probably part time, team as opposed to DTG large structured organisation.
Well you dont really have to compare like for like. The garagistas of Formula1 couldnt be compared to the works teams yet they took them to the cleaners. But discussing the rules of the conversation is a distraction from the conversation itself and comes across as point scoring. Its clear though that in one update they generally accomplish more than DTG do. Unfortunately Derail Valley also suffers from the irritating flickering of assets like poles and fences so Im unlikely to migrate to it. Of course its also worth pointing out for the immediate responders out there that its not a case of either or. I own them both and play them both dependng on my mood. What is a garagista? Garagiste | A Racing Term at Sports Pundit
Oh come on, you can hardly claim TSW3 isn't obsolete when it won't be receiving updates and will be removed from sale. See, I would rather DTG reform, so I don't even buy content that is arguably worth it based on what it currently is. That's still rewarding them for their behaviour.
