The Q & A Stream 19/10/21

Discussion in 'PlayStation Discussion' started by phillipa#1949, Oct 19, 2021.

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  1. yes it was

    54 vote(s)
    81.8%
  2. no it did not mean a thing to me

    12 vote(s)
    18.2%
  1. phillipa#1949

    phillipa#1949 Active Member

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    So how many of you tuned into there live Q & A stream then ? they may as well have been talking in Chinese with only a mild suggestion that they where doing everything to fix despite the fact we could be waiting some time. Your thoughts & Opinions please if you so wish
     
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  2. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Was it helpful? YES
    Did it fill me with confidence? NO
    Did Sam ask all the right questions? YOU BET

    It confirmed a few things some of us already knew about the shortcomings of DTG’s dev process when it comes down to poor QA, having a handful of trusted old friends doing all the beta testing and having a head of sound that doesn’t know much about game audio. They are still quite new at developing for consoles but a few more pennies might be dropping now that they need to massively improve in that area. There are some promises to look at those things, and some things are already being addressed, but it might take a long time before we see results.
     
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  3. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

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    I think the stream gave lots of insights. Lots of questions were answered.
    The most important thing I came to understand is that optimising will be their main focus as last gen consoles outnumber next gen in big numbers. Wanna sell a loco add on for London Commuter? Not possible at the moment as you can't sell it to the large last gen userbase and this for a few more years to come.

    Now I understand why next gen users on this forum wanna push last gen users so hard to buy next gen consoles for this game :D
     
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  4. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    This. Sam asked all the right questions, even calling out all of the involved parties (including himself) for the we‘ve learned our lessons which never really seem to have sunk in.

    I want to give Matt some credit, too. Not only did he stand up to the questions and took them head on, but he was also a lot more transparent about internal issues than I expected. I felt like this was the first time that it was publicly acknowledged that their QA just doesn‘t seem good enough without beating around the bush. What also surspriesed me was the admittance that DTG have mishandled the 3rd party situation thus far. To be fair, the 187 made this obvious already, but a public acknowledgement of it was new.

    Ultimately, talk is cheap and doesn‘t solve anything, but it did feel good to get clarity on some issues and just generally clear the air, so to say.
     
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  5. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I think it was a genuine attempt to discuss the state of play. I got from Matt that they don’t test the finished product, just the stuff up to the final build, which explains a heck of a lot. This has been quite obvious from the start with the community flagging so many issues as soon as a DLC is released.

    Ultimately, it was all words.

    There is no getting away from the fact that the game on console is pretty much broken (explains why MSB etc also crashes randomly on PS5), but no amount of talk fixes that. Proof lies in the actual fixes and how quick and successful they are.

    There is no point fixing something if it doesn’t actually fix it **cough** M7 audio **cough**
     
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  6. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Active Member

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    One thing that caught my ear was Matt saying that they don't test everything on all platforms. One platform gets everything tested, then just the differences on the others. (paraphrasing from memory). I really think everything should be tested on all, even if it seems repetitive. Time spent doing that seems far preferable to time spent trying to fix glaringly obvious errors and trying to gain community trust again.

    I too thought Sam, Matt, and Nathalie did an admirable job. Think to how many other gaming companies remain as communicative as an Easter Island statue, while DTG puts themselves through this (sadly!) on a fairly regular basis. Kudos to them for taking it on the chin but, as others say, the proof will be in the execution. Still, admitting the problem is half the battle, 'they' say.
     
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  7. Gilly

    Gilly Well-Known Member

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    Agree totally with what's said above.
    What surprised me most was the admission that they aren't able to beta test on console prior to release, which when you consider it's not an insignificant part of the TSW market does concern me greatly.
    How many times have we heard "that we've learnt and it won't happen again" being trotted out by Sam et al. Yet the above suggests yet again they haven't. The only way is as Sam himself says "Don't like it don't buy it".
    I took a leap of faith with the Season ticket, three routes, good value. All beset with their own problems on release, some absolutely game breaking ones which at time of writing we have no timetable for fixes. And more DLC immanently due, which I'm no Sherlock but I'm guessing it's highly likely we'll see issues on the PS4 in one form or another.
    As for the PS5, what's the point of upgrading my console for the one game I'd currently consider playing on a 5, when it fundamentally doesn't work.
    I'm likely to hold off on any future DLC until we see some solid fixes being rolled out as currently I don't like TSW, what's meant as an evening chill out it's just more stress than it's worth.
    Echo the sentiment that Sam, Matt and Nat did an excellent job nonetheless.
     
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  8. Birita

    Birita Well-Known Member

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    Agreed.
     
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  9. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    It was like old times. Sam was as combative as ever, taking the players' part and almost pinning Matt to the canvas on several occasions. But Matt, to his credit, was up for it and calmly answered each question, not evading anything and going quite deeply into the innards of the company and the way things work. Frankly, I was often riveted to the stream and that hasn't happened in a while. I think Matt definitively answered that misguided thinkiing that DTG should " take a break "from creating new product. And Natalie asked a couple of smart questions too. She's certainly earned her spurs.
    Would that all the streams were as good as this one.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
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  10. nockwurst

    nockwurst Well-Known Member

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    I agree, their communication has always been excellent, and they definitely stand into the fire when it comes time to take the music. Appreciate their willingness to try and answer the tough questions.
    Having said that, they wouldn’t have to be in front of the firing squad so often if they hadn’t botched these launches so completely. Still boggles the mind.
     
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  11. ghall59

    ghall59 Active Member

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    Thought it was one of the best streams I've seen. Sam is great at teasing information out that players would want to know. To his credit Matt takes it and tries to answer as best he can. Bear in mind too that the few people we see on streams are the face of DTG if you like, they have to carry everything, good or bad.
     
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  12. Yerolo

    Yerolo Well-Known Member

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    The only weird part of the stream for me was someone in chat asking "what are you going to do to improve?" after spending 2hrs+ talking about how they are going to improve. Not sure why that question was even read out
     
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  13. Railfan1985

    Railfan1985 Well-Known Member

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    The stream answered nearly all my questions. However one remains- what about older dlc that is bugged such as freight exchange? Will this be addressed?
     
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  14. Railfan1985

    Railfan1985 Well-Known Member

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    You have to be kidding? Communication is DTGS weakest point!!!
     
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  15. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    It was nice to hear that the problems and concerns are understood. Fingers crossed that Matt’s reflection on the testing process will lead to better quality going forward. Otherwise we are heading straight for a state of hopelessness.

    At the end of the day I’m afraid the business strategy of DTG will always present a quantity vs. quality problem. It was mentioned how they cannot afford to slow down new releases without compromising the team as it is. In that case please make the team the best and the most efficient it can be. Best wishes for anything releasing onwards, and today’s patch will hopefully be a great one.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2021
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  16. jon_mann

    jon_mann Member

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    Sure that was fixed a while ago as I have been able to complete it on PS4 version now.
     
  17. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Yes and the minority is almost louder than the silent majority. :)
     
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  18. phillip.good

    phillip.good Active Member

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    Agreeing with stujoy

    The stream was really interesting and we got much more than the often heard ‘mea culpas’ but can’t help thinking that they have now burned the apology bridge and actually now need to be seen to be doing something.

    will it keep certain posters happy? Probably not. Will it improve the game soon? Possibly not. Does it make me feel better? Yes, but I guess I’ll only really know when the regular bug updates start rolling out
     
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  19. Shwing

    Shwing Member

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    Just a short posting to say how much I enjoyed watching last night's stream. I loved the openness and honesty shown by both Sam & Matt.
     
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  20. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    In the stream last night, Matt mentioned one of the layers/trains hadn’t been tested on London Commuter on the PS5 and this was causing the crashes. Did he mention which one?
     
  21. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Dovetail Special Projects Staff Member

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    The aim of the stream was to shine some light onto how the creation of the game works and why there are problems. As much as there may have been some potential that it reassured some players we know full well that until the current batch of problems, particularly on console, are dealt with the job is not done.

    This is why we're keen to be able to provide any kind of timeline for improvement. We're wary of doing so because when the solutions have yet to present themselves it's tremendously difficult to estimate when we'll be fully clear of the issues. Even so, we don't expect to have reassured anyone until these fixes are out, so in the short term it is better to give some estimates rather than leave you entirely in the dark on when or if the problems will be rectified.

    As soon as we have anything to help on this front we'll let you know.
     
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  22. phillip.good

    phillip.good Active Member

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    I think he said that no 487 service from Victoria terminating at gatwick was tested on PS5
     
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  23. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I really do respect Sam and Matt. They do a great job on the streams.
     
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  24. borg#1850

    borg#1850 Well-Known Member

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    Well I have to say that for the three of them to stand above the parapet and take flack, reminds me of World War 1. The front soldiers got put in that position by the officers hiding back at base. The three of them are canon fodder, while those who have the power to change things hide in the back ground.
    Personally I have not watched a Stream for a while. They can be interesting but "Talk" is just that "Talk". We the customer would like to see some more real action in fixing the bugs. Even if it is not the three of them doing the fixing.
     
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  25. Observadorpt

    Observadorpt Active Member

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    HI
    New ps5 firmware update today, anyone see if solves the dlc issue
     
  26. ukpetey

    ukpetey Active Member

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    I’ve never watched a stream before, I’m much more interested in playing the game than talking about it! Hence I’ve only just recently started to post here, same thing. However it has been the recent issues that caused me to revisit the forums, then watch the stream last night.

    I have to say that I’m in awe of Sam and they way he literally held Matt’s feet to the fire on occasion, it was no holds barred and clear he was on the side of the customer, which is great to see. I’m not sure we got all the answers. I still don’t understand how or why Brighton was ever released in such a state, no amount of apologies or explanations can seemingly cover over that mess.

    I am confident for the future. I’m pleased that the company acknowledges it has performed poorly. Matt alluded to the fact that it is (obviously) a business and it needs to keep releasing stuff for us to spend our money on. That’s the reason for its existence. I even took a bit of a veiled threat there that if we don’t keep spending, the company will fold and the game end, and it’ll be our fault that people lose jobs. Equally I think he now understands that the community will no longer tolerate content being released in a broken condition and that collectively we will not buy it until we know it works. So thanks in advance to any early adopters who will TOFTT and test things! I didn’t yet buy the Season Ticket because I figured it would be bugged (never envisaged how badly!) and I haven’t bought the 1938 Tube Stock yet since it’s not yet (imho) fit for purpose.

    Similarly I won’t be buying West Cornwall until I know it works properly. My point: I have money to spend on quality content which plays as intended. I’m ready to spend it: I want these routes and locos. But I won’t be buying stuff which is broken. So if DTG wants my money, it knows what it has to do….
     
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  27. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the stream and the infos you gave there Sam and Matt. Hopefully you reach your aim, that customers on all platforms will have a similar satisfying experience with TSW2.
     
  28. Dinger75

    Dinger75 Active Member

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    Well I am certainly more informed in regards to the issues in the game an the inner workings at DTG. However, I didn't hear much that convinces me that things will change with the final quality of future DLC. I am also disappointed that they are reluctant to give timeframes for fixes that are about as serious as it gets (in gaming terms)

    What I find the most bizarre though is the issue regarding memory issues and the link with the amount of DLC owned. So they are reluctant to give timeframes to combat this issue (almost certainly a factor in system crashes), however they are more than happy to sell new DLC which is going to make the memory issues even more accute.
     
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  29. phillipa#1949

    phillipa#1949 Active Member

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    Correct there is also an update for TSW2
     
  30. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    The patch notes once again are not very detailed, this is another thing needs drastic improvement, I don't see anything in there that makes me want to go and download it right now. JD mentioned yesterday in a thread that the update contained a fix for Motion Blur staying off. Not in the patch notes though!
    I think given the situation, any small tweaks should be listed in the patch notes, if the work is done shout about it. I'm looking at the patch thinking meh, I don't have an Xbox or the 187 or 38 stock so what's in it for me.
     
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  31. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Can we give an "honorable mention" to DTG Natster? She also asked and answered questions on the stream without fudging, fighting or avoiding and I think she's growing into her role as "Sam's replacement" in these instances very well.

    ---

    I will admit I had several "You've got to be kidding" moments from last night's stream (in no particular order):
    • That the journey mode is not fully tested on every platform
    • The main sound engineer is not overly familiar with how sound works in a game, no matter how familiar with train sounds in general
    • That beta testers don't test the beta release (ie pre-release candidate), but start testing much earlier
    • That DTG haven't taken control of their output from 3rd parties...
    I'm sure there are others I've forgotten, but with Matt now as EP rather than "senior producer" we can now all jump on him whenever something is put out without adequate testing. 2022 could be a golden year for TSW2 IF what Matt has said all comes to fruition. We shall see...
     
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  32. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. With this update East Coastway now has the Rush Hour passenger system, but for some strange reason it’s not currently mentioned in the patch notes. It makes me wonder what else there’s undocumented.
     
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  33. tcmikaelsouza

    tcmikaelsouza Well-Known Member

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    Good morning friends,

    Watching today's stream and I will watch it again with subtitles to understand it clearly and accurately, I expected a lot more from today's notes and update.

    https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/train-sim-world-update-notes-20th-october-2021.47438/

    Apparently, based on the notes, "THIS UPDATE DOES NOT CORRECT THE MAJOR TW2 PROBLEMS", such as stuck trains, practically muted cabin sounds and security systems, game crashes, I'm extremely upset about this, with so much player feedback and details they still haven't been able to find the root of the problems, at least fix the sound, it totally breaks the immersion of the wind noise inside the cabin.
     
  34. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Natalie stated a few times that today's patch would NOT be the big one people seem to be expecting and would focus mainly on teh graphical glitches experienced by xbox players. This seems to have rolled out but not solved many of the other graphical glitches xbox people have been having aside from the one mentioned
     
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  35. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    Aye, to add to your point, it seems like the current policy going forward is smaller, more frequent iterations of improvements instead of holding back for a big 'fix everything at once' patch which would take much longer to see individual fixes released.
     
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  36. tcmikaelsouza

    tcmikaelsouza Well-Known Member

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    True, I really prefer that there be periodic fixes to big fixes that are very punctual and spaced out. I hope they prioritize fundamental fixes at the very least.
     
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  37. Chas

    Chas Active Member

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    I found the stream interesting and informative even if it made for uncomfortable viewing at times. On a purely human level I get no pleasure in seeing someone like Matt being grilled so thoroughly and think he did vey well in trying to answer the questions. He was honest about the seriousness of the problems and didn't try to make excuses. I noted the reference to the "bingo card" and felt he did well in avoiding the now well worn cliches. Kudos goes to Natalie and Sam for the no holds barred on camera interrogation. As for Matt, I felt he stood up well to the weight of leadership and loneliness of command and would like to thank him for putting himself through this public ordeal.

    Some of the technical details were fascinating and give an insight into the complexities of creating and updating simulation software. I found the section on memory usage by DLC particularly interesting as was the possible solution of "mounting" DLC only when required.

    All in all it was a very good livestream. I am sure the team at DTG will strive to correct problems as quickly as possible and feel it is unfortunate that lax practices in the past have put them in the situation they now find themselves in.
     
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  38. benuildo

    benuildo Member

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    Thanks for the very good, informative and interresting stream DTG JD DTG Natster and TrainSim-Matt.
    I made a mistake when I said I wouldn't read the forums and not watching the streams anymore until the game is fixed (see here). It's just too much fun, to stop now :cool:. I want to be part of the community and I want to help DTG to make the game better. I'm not mad at DTG. I never was. I was just disapointed and overstrained with the situation and needed a break. I think DTG you can do it. The game still has so much potential. Take the time you need to make it the best train sim game ever.... but don't wait too long to make it as good as it was before the Unreal update ;). I don't play the game until it is fixed, to avoid getting upset, but I think I will continue to buy future dlc to support DTG and get a perfect game someday. Please don't let me down. :D

    I think the mounting idea they persue, is not bad, if it works automatically and you don't need to think about what you need to mount and unmount. I would prefer a version where you choose the route you want to play and the game automatically mounts the route and all dlc needed for the layers. After choosing an other route, the game should first unmount the now unused stuff automatically before mounting the new dlc.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2021
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