The Riviera Line has so much going for it, thanks to its amazing scenery, variety of locomotives and heritage railway (steam). I’m easily finding myself doing more services west to Plymouth though, rather than Paignton. The run down to Plymouth feels like what the WCL scenery should’ve been. So that had me thinking, we’ve already got the St Austell’s to Penzance section on the WCL, wouldn’t it be great for a future expansion to make the Plymouth to St Austell’s part then merge the unused, forgotten relic that is WCL with some TOD4 magic and scenery upgrades of course. This would make the London Paddington to Penzance route about 50% complete roughly, and it would feel more like a complete run, then to add the cherry on top with Liams GWR remaster. What are your thoughts, is this something you’d like to see in the future?
I was thinking to myself when driving Riviera yesterday that it would be a good time to remake WCL from the ground up, extending it to Plymouth. The track layout from the TSW2 release is based around the 1990's, that single track section is double track in current day. The changes needed would mean a new modern era version is the better way to go. Looking at the provided map, I'd definitely like them to run it to Exeter as well seeing as it's not too far from Plymouth. It'd probably be a bit long of a drive for an extension, but route hopping at Plymouth would certainly be an option at least.
I would probably find a retrospective version of the Riviera Line matching the West Cornwall local add-on era more appealing, merging it and having a mix of loco hauled InterCity services with the phasing in of Class 253’s with Paxman Valenta engined power cars. Personally I’m not that interested in those overly simple to drive IET’s.
A good idea but TBH WCL would need to be rebuilt from the ground up rather than just extended. But in principle, being able to drive @130 miles all the way from Exeter to Penzance, regardless of era, would be wonderful. Though without labouring a previous point, that definitely needs to come with more than one save slot!
I would if it meant the original 1990s one also received the benefits from any remaster. Like NTP it's looking quite dated now. Also the perfect excuse to get the much requested and long awaited unrefurbished HSTs in the game. There's also the question of whether any modern WCL would be set bang up to date or perhaps a few years in the past? I think the route has lost a lot of it's appeal as a haven for Western region semaphores since the resignalling programme.
Maybe not a route merge, that doesn't seem entirely realistic to me, but a remaster of sorts (to Plymouth) would be nice. I don't even think that is much of a crazy idea, Rivet did update Island Line and sell it again, Id be happy to pay for an updated version of this route provided it was actually good. I've said it before that 90s is one of my favourite eras that a route could be set, but I'm not much of a fan of it on this route (a good amount of stock missing including the pretty crucial Valenta HSTs). I think I would just rather this be set in modern day, maybe a few years ago when more of the semaphores existed, at least we have most of the stock for that.
I probably shouldn’t make posts at silly o’clock in the morning Plymouth to Penzance is more likely though. The rolling stock would need a complete overhaul as it’s obsolete now. Is it possible to replace the WCL 150 with the GWR livery due to licensing? DTG doing a route merge, well that would be a first time ever. I’ll believe it when I see it. Thanks for keeping my expectations in check. (This is not TSC, This is not TSC, This is not TSC).
I'd love to see it! If the team that made Riviera were passionate about doing Plymouth-Penzance, it would be amazing
I'd happily buy a modern-day WCL Plymouth to Penzance. It'd be consistent with other re-releases that are longer than the original version and contain more, such as LIRR 2.0 and Island Line 2022.
I think Rivet should go back to WCL and modernise route and extend it to Plymouth. Now is a good time to do it.
I can't see a route merge happening, but would be very happy to see Plymouth to Newquay, including the small stretch down to St Austell for added variety / route hopping.
You’d have the 150’s, but in GWR livery and the 802’s and HST’s still, so nothing would change. The scenery just needs a complete revamp though, as some of the scenery on the WCL currently is incorrect and doesn’t reflect what it looks like in real life during that period.
I have some leopard skin underpants and a web cam. Btw I don’t think my expectations are too unreasonable. We’re talking about a revamp of the WCL, not a new route. The only section that would need adding is the Plymouth to St Austell’s part. Dresden has just had its route doubled. You’d think I’m asking for the full length of the ECML, which is not even close to that scale.
I dislike the proposal to remake WCL only in modern because it’s currently the only 90s era uk route in the game. Yes I am aware it was intended to be GWR before the licence was lost, and yes the route itself is one of the poorest quality wise (it desperately needs both a 50 and valenta hst). But if it is to be remade, personally I think something would be lost if that recreation is restricted to just being modern. Perfect world (never going to happen but dreaming here), I’d like to see it redone in both eras. Similarly to the tsc riviera line which has both the 2010s and 1950s eras represented and sold separately. And no, a retro timetable on a modern route does not satisfy. People were upset with DLOGW and some are now complaining that the whole JT catalogue isn’t modern either (personally I prefer it retro)
I think the point of the question was, how would this be sold? Given that people are grumpy that paying for Dresden-Leipzig is paying for a route that they (in part) already owned, how many people would be happy to pay again at full new route price for this merged RVL+WCL?
Technically people who owned Dresden are paying for it again when picking up one of the TSW6 editions. The same could be said about LIRR V2, same route as the original just updated to TOD4 and extra branch lines. Why wasn’t that given to players as a free update who owned the original route? I think a merging of two routes is still better value than one updated route. Also saving them money if they didn’t pick up the original WCL dlc.
To be clear, do you mean "merge" or "route hop" (connect) because those are two entirely different things.
Yeah, the 90s are what sells WCL for me. You'd be making a whole new line in 2025 essentially. A LOT of people though will just say "I already bought that!" and refuse to buy out of protest. Dresden is only getting half a "pass" because it's a dirt cheap "Standard package" TSW 6 route. I guess if you waited until TSW 7 and released it was part of a bundle for super cheap.... You'll still get people asking why DTG is "wasting their time redoing what we already have" though.
The title clearly states “Merge” (combination of more then two things/joining of something). I would’ve used “route hop” in the title otherwise.
Totally support the idea to move WCL forward in time, to match the Riviera timeframe (extending it to Plymouth, obviously). It's like what was done between IOW1.0 and 2022 (I know Rivet, you can do it)! 143s were sporadic visitors here, mainly in the FGW era, which would make introducing them pointless... Maybe something could be done, adding a 57 and Mk3s SLEP on Night Riviera services?
Night Rivera will probably never happen from what I heard, and honestly after trying it out in TSC I understand why. It is not as good as it may first seem. In day time you hardly ever see the stock, yes GWR 57s have done other services besides the sleeper but it's rare. And driving at night is not all that fun in TSW, you cant see anything, you wouldn't even see the train outside of station lights. It just seems like a waste of development time to me personally.
That's why I asked because I don't think it's technically feasible currently. You're talking the existing 45 miles of the WCL, plus 30 miles of new track, plus 60 miles of Riviera. That's 135 miles of high quality track in one route. Oof. That'll make consoles run like a slide show if at all and how do you market it? That's over twice the distance, so would you charge over twice as much? Let's see you get 60 miles for $40 on Riviera. So 135 miles.... would be $90?
I don't think route length affects performance. WCML Preston Carlisle is nearly 100 miles and runs absolutely fine on my series X.
IDK, I quite enjoy night services from time to time on Preston - Carlisle. It's a real challenge to not have the visual cues in the distance you'd normally have during the day so can be fun. The 86 & 87 cabs at night are quite atmospheric too.
Its a combination of things, even down to that we don't have a modern Cornwall route to run the train on, and I mean even then it would be a lot better of a product to sell. I know you can run the sleeper in almost daylight in certain times of year in Riviera route but its hardly anything compared - it arrives in Plymouth at 05:10 compared to Penzance at 07:50. Its difficult to make these arguments because there will always be some guys who come and say they love driving at night, but I highly doubt that is the case for most. At the end of the day, I'm biased so ill never have the opinion of flat out no towards any more GWR stock, I just don't think it would be as good of an idea as some people are making it out to be.
DTG should really do something about these dark nights. And maybe some people would love to have a night train in TSW. Personnally, I'd prefer the Caledonian Sleeper, but still would pay a large sum for the Night Riviera (or Mk3 sleepers for JT stuff)
