^ Note for the poll. If you do not select 'Yes' or 'No' and you want to say, for example, that Rivet and TSG are doing a good job, you can select both. You cannot select all three options, as that's what the 'Yes' is for. A bit of a contentious topic which has a thirst for invading and conquering other threads are the questions: Are the third parties good enough? Firstly, we have to look at the bedrock of TSW Developers, DTG. I would, personally, say that Dovetail are doing an alright job with TSW, but there is lots of room to improve. I would argue that no DLC they have ever produced - at least not since TSW2020 - could go down as terrible, and whilst we have some great routes, we have a game held back by inconsistencies. On the other fronts, however, Dovetail do well. The Roadmap (although, far less effective as before), Railfan TV and other means of communication between them and Dovetail are massively improved compared to a few years ago. So, how does this compare with third parties, and their quality alongside the primary developer of Train Sim World content? Well, it's safe to say it's not been a smooth ride. Rivet Games have made 6 Routes, 2 Loco DLCs, 1 Gameplay Pack, and 1 Livery Pack. The routes have - the more I look at them (either through my own gameplay, or watching videos and reading feedback) been very up and down. The German Shunter DLC (which I forget the name of) that Rivet made - I won't be commenting on, as I haven't seen enough. Island Line (NSE) is an underwhelming route. You would expect, for an 8 mile long, single track route, with one train, that enough care would be there to make it good, rather than rushing it. Nothing of the sort happened, it came out quite lacklustre, with the 483 being a shadow of it's real life self. I have fun driving the Island Line, despite its issues, but, if I'm being objective: 3/10 Arosa Linie is, the more I look at it, a bang average DLC. The Rolling Stock's sounds are poor, the physics need some adjustments, and, at the end of the day, is what we have come now to generally expect of Rivet. The Distant Scenery is, overall, poor, although at line side it is really quite nice. 5/10 for me. Moving back to Britain and it's West Cornwall Local. Rivet's longest route (at release) had a delayed launch, promising large fixes. Whilst many issues were ironed out, to be fair (I had the luck of getting it in the narrow release window on Xbox on the original release date) - and while I enjoy the St. Ives branch, overall it still underwhelms. The Timetable is quite barebones (owing the lack of stock), the 150's sounds and Physics are quite poorly done (as well as inaccuracies with the interior and such). Scenery is average to poor along the route. 3/10. Luzern - Sursee marked the second Swiss route and it was, certainly, an improvement. The Scenery is decent along most of the line, and the only major complaints to be had are the botched attempt at bringing ETCS to the game, and some inaccuracies in the FLIRT's soundset. Nothing terrible about it, although hard to find anything fantastic either. I enjoy this DLC more than any other Rivet DLC I own, but objectively I can only give it as high as 7/10. Island Line (2022) is probably Rivet's best DLC. It's what the original Island Line should have been. A detailed, well-loved recreation of the short Island Line. Combined with a solid attempt at a 484, as well as the modernisation of the route, this line earns a 8/10. Edinburgh - Glasgow is their most recent Route DLC, and by far the biggest effort. Overall, the route building isn't bad. Small parts are disappointing, mainly around Edinburgh and Glasgow (two highly detailed areas), so not much complaints on that front. The 385's Model and Physics aren't too bad. A little bit off when it comes to the Physics, but overall, good. The Sounds - well you can tell it's a 385, and whilst some aspects of it are well done, other parts are horror shows. The New Features on the route are nice touches, and the explorable areas in and around stations are also welcome. 5.5/10 Now, away from routes, Locos, Expansions, and Livery Packs. The RhB Anniversary Pack for Arosa Linie introduced 5 new liveries for the GE 4/4 II locomotive, as well as an observation car, new scenarios and timetable services, and a nice Christmas theme to the route. I mean, there's nothing wrong with the liveries and it's hardly got enough to complain about. 6/10. The 1938 Tube Stock for Bakerloo Line is next up. This modified model of the Class 483 from Isle of Wight - to take it back into its original state from its long services to the Underground irl - was... disappointing. A poorly done adaptation of the 1938 TS, combined with a timetable that was (somehow) worse than the Base TSW2 Bakerloo Line timetable, in the totally wrong era? Poor show. 2/10. Finally, the Steam Railtour. I think it's recent enough that I don't really need to explain. 2/10. Now, moving away from Rivet Games, we have Skyhook Games. A very topical move to make. Skyhook are currently doing a hell of a lot to improve the Midland Mainline: Leicester - Nottingham & Derby route, exemplified by their large thread asking for (and seemingly delivering on) feedback. Hats off to them on that. To that end, I'll pass judgement on Midland Mainline. I've watched a lot of it (and plan to buy it as soon as I can), and I can say the improvements will be more than welcome. To a similar end (and I'm not cutting them a break just because they're doing work on Midland Mainline) - I won't tear into them like I did Rivet. Unlike Rivet, Skyhook are still relatively new to the TSW Scene. So, I'll just score the DLCs here. (Note: I don't know much about US freight, I'm just going from what I see, and what research has told me) Cane Creek - 6/10 Horseshoe - 6/10 DB BR 187 - 2/10 And that sets up for the last - to date - 3rd party for Train Sim World: Train Sim Germany. Their first loco DLC, the G6 Shunter, was a well-crafted addition to the game, and there not much else to say about that. 7/10. Niddertalbahn, however, covers all fronts magnificently. The 612 is a well made train - and fits with the feel of the rural branchline it's coupled with (pun intended) perfectly. The Route itself is just fantastic. The amount of detail in the scenery and stations is amazing, and is a real gem for TSW. Although, it's unreasonable to expect this becomes the standard for the game. TSG went above and beyond. 10/10. I will expand this thread as time goes on and third parties create new routes, as well as keeping tabs on MML. I'm excited to see what Just Trains, ATS and Union Workshop go on to produce. It will, hopefully, be good stuff. That being said, the debate now turns to you guys. Are the third parties of Train Sim World doing well enough and, what needs to be done to better their content. Please, however, remain constructive with this discussion. Otherwise, you and I will have wasted our time here. Thank You.
Good review there, totally agree with your judgements here as well, very solid and honest answers too, I'll do my reviews as well: Rivet Games: IOW (NSE): 3/10 IOW (IL): 7/10 WCL: 5/10 WCSP: 3/10 LZN: 2/10 ARL: (don't own) RHBAP: (don't own) 1938 Stock: (don't own) EDN: 4/10 Skyhook Games: CC: (don't own) HSC: (don't own) DB BR 187: 2/10 MML: 8/10 TSG: DB G6: 5/10 NID: 10/10 (best third-party DLC of all time)
Im probably going to get flamed here, but these are my ratings. The biggest over riding factor for me is is it fun to drive & Does it hold my attention and make me want to keep going back to it, so probably a bit more generous. Rivet Games: IOW (NSE): Dont Own. IOW (IL): 7/10 - I enjoyed this immensely and do keep going back when I just want a quick fix in TSW, although the services are a bit samey. WCL: 3/10, the 150 is now so underpowered its impossible to keep to the timetable on the mainline, and the mix era does bother me somewhat. WCSP: Dont Own. LZN: 7/10 - much in the same vein as Island Line, is a nice quick fix and fun to drive. ARL: 7/10 - I love the downhill runs on this, even more so since I learnt I should be using a blend of brakes and not just the dynamic. The up hill runs are a nice relaxing run, when I just want to play something and not use the grey matter than much. SREG - 7/10 - Im really enjoying this route, despite all the detractors, the 185 is a fun drive, only thing holding it back really is the lack of variety. Really needed a 2nd train on this route. RHBAP: 7/10 really added to ARL and brought in some freight services to boot. 1938 Stock: (don't own) BR204: 6/10 - yes I know the physics are shocked, the sounds are all over the place, but I find it fun to drive and ultimately thats all that matters to me. Skyhook Games: CC: 7/10 - this is a much slower pace but is fun to have a run down once a month or so, its challenging in parts HSC: 8/10 pre Cajon, this was my go to US freight route, its a good mix of full thrash at decent speeds and challenging down hills, had it been built with the new brake physics seen on other US routes this would have scored a 9/10. Still gets a part in my rotation never the less. DB BR 187: 5/10, after a rocky start (where I'd have scored this 0/10) the updates have made this a fun loco to drive, if they can sort the sounds out it will score higher still MML: Dont own yet, although will pick it up once updates are made. TSG: DB G6: 7/10, really technical drive and a lot of fun, the only issue I have is that few of the services/scenarios are borked, although down to the route rather than the loco, but still detracts from my enjoyment so scored down because of this. NID: 9/10 - clearly one of the best made routes ever produced, only thing stopping it getting a 10 is the longevity of the playability for me. Im deliberately not playing it as often as I want, simply because I dont want to complete it, its that good. So this is a treat route for me, when Ive been a good boy.
Only think I'll disagree with here is this, and the reason I do disagree is that it isn't prototypical. The 170 and HST run between Croy and Glasgow Q St, but virtually all services don't stop anywhere except Glasgow QS - none in the HSTs case. So options are virtually non-existent.
There really needs to be a "could do better", category in the poll. As the responses above have shown, it's a mixed bag and very subjective. For example I quite like Arosa, but the Class 484 on the IOW to me just feels and sounds slightly wrong - over powerful and in Notch 4 sounds more like a DMU. The TSG stuff is generally good but while technically Niddertalbahn and its rolling stock are superb, the repetitive and all stations nature of the service relegates it to an occasional drive, in short a bit boring. The G6 suffers from not being able to save while the train is in motion and as noted some of the Journey trips are borked and never been fixed. SHG - well hopefully MML will be patched up soon, the 158 and HST are pretty good though. Cane Creek is also a guilty pleasure route for me.
Options are probably non-existent, but then the question is did they select the right route? For me playability, variety & longevity should be major factors when selecting a route. And thats where nearly all 3rd party routes fall down for me.
I think in general they are doing okay but there have been some low points and one or two high(ish) points. I have scored them too as I am bored. Rivet Games: IOW (NSE): 4/10 - I never particularly felt the 483 was enjoyable to drive the route is pretty IOW (IL): 8/10 - a great improvement over the original and the 484 is very nice to drive and sounds good, the route is quite samey of course WCL: 2/10 - disappointing, in my opinion they should have chosen a different route for the 150/2, maybe one of the valley lines rather than build half a route. It is silly in its scope, will we ever get Plymouth to Penzance because of it? The layers are ridiculous and totally unrealistic and un-selectable so unless you uninstall other DLC you have to put up with them, I have uninstalled WCL instead and unlikely to reinstall unless there are major changes. The 150/2 does not feel or sound like the prototype. I think the scenery is quite nice. For me they should have included the Falmouth branch rather than the pointless extension to St. Austell if they weren't going all the way to Plymouth. WCSP: don't own and am unlikely to with rakes of five carriages, it will have to be heavily discounted LZN: 8/10 just been playing, lovely scenery and in some ways I think their best route, the train is nicely modelled but to me doesn't sound right. The safety systems don't work as they should ARL: don't own, might get it heavily discounted but the sounds of the carriages put me off RHBAP: don't own 1938 Stock: don't own and have no interest in doing so EDN: 6/10 I like the route and the modelling of the train, I still don't think the sounds are right. For me, they should have added the three miles of so to Alloa, there would have been two sets of fully playable services then. You wouldn't take a train to Croy then another driver take it to Alloa, would it really have been too much to ask for them to include it. Skyhook Games: CC: Don't own HSC: Don't own DB BR 187: Don't own, might get it when/if they fix it MML: 7/10 I like the route and the stock, especially the stock. But at present it is too short and the timetable woeful, however it seems the latter will be addressed. Has many bugs which need fixing. TSG: DB G6: don't own NID: 9/10 I also think this is the best DLC so far, few bugs and looks lovely and well detailed.
Rivet Games: IOW (NSE): 5.3/10 Had a decent time with this, but after like 10 services it got real boring. I think the scenarios were fun. But this has basically been “power-creeped” by the new IOW2022. IOW (IL): 5.6/10 IOW but better. The modern 484 is fun. I don’t know enough to say whether it’s realistic, but it’s fun to rip around in that thing. But it’s too same-y to play often. WCL: 1.8/10 I own it, and it’s there but I don’t care. Scenery misses the mark on lots of big landmarks. The sounds left a lot to be desired. The layers added some activity, but were not really realistic. WCSP: It’s not really that many services, so I can’t rate it LZN: 5.3/10 I want to love it. The Rabe is great. I like the scenery. Feels like the region. But the safety systems are a disaster and it hampers the driving experience. ARL: 6.2/10 Cool scenery, great ambience. Downhill services with blended breaking in a snowstorm (custom, with no wind) are pretty awesome. You can mess up fast. Super underrated route. The loco ain’t bad, I can look past that weird shrieking horn. RHBAP: it’s pretty cool, not sure I’d rate it as it’s nothing huge 1938 Stock: own it, don’t care about it EDN: 6.9/10 Like it. Great scenery. Keep coming back to it. Sounds improved. TMS is so wonky. Skyhook Games: CC: 6.2/10 Stunning scenery. Pretty cool scenarios and services if you have a couple of hours, lol. Gets boring after a while tbh, such a slow speed route. HSC: 6.7/10 I keep going back to it for some reason, even though some things aren’t quite right. Scenery is great and the NS livery is just so cool. DB BR 187: 0/10, sounds like an alien being strangled MML: 7.4/10 I like it a lot and I don’t care what anyone says. I enjoy the sounds and scenery. I like the ugly livery. Loses points for being a little to light on the train traffic. TSG: DB G6: 9.8/10 Love was put into this. The sounds are like music, the scenarios are cool despite some issues. There’s neat little touches like the helmet, etc. NID: 10/10 I can’t really add anything others haven’t already said. It’s as good as the hype, which is rare.
Rivet Games: IOW (NSE): 8/10 love the 483 and the original island line. IOW (IL): 8/10 love the 484 and modified stations to suit. WCL: 8/10 my favourite route before EDN, shame the 150 is a mess, but it's still a fun route. Just a shame the loco haulled trains are abut... fantasy WCSP: 7/10, not a fan of the flashy lights, but a Jubilee with AWS is great. LZN: Dont Own ARL: 8/10. Lovely route, great train, only non UK route I have enjoyed. Is a nice change from the norm. RHBAP: 7/10 - just a skin pack really, not great, not terrible. 1938 Stock: 7/10 great model, sound bug is main issue EDN 9/10 - great route, great train, interation keeps me occupied when traversing scotland. Skyhook Games: CC: don't own HSC: don't own DB BR 187: don't own MML: 8/10 TSG: DB G6 Don't own. NID: 4/10 (didn't like the train or the route)
Rivet games had some unique dlcs. Sure there were some glaring issues, but I am able to enjoy the route while enjoying them. Rivet tend to do well in the modeling department. original iow: short, complete route with older rolling stock. Sounds and physics have some issues. But I liked how it was a peaceful route. Arosa: narrow gauge swiss route that has poor mountainous scenery, physics and sounds. It is kinda too slow for me so I don't really play as much rhb anniversary: first gameplay pack with new liveries, new services, additional scenarios and an observation coach. Luzern-sursee: 2nd swiss route, but fast. Brought etcs for the first time that still has some issues. I like the quick and short services Wcl: it feels generic and the physics/sounds aren't great. Scenery could also be better. I just bought it to try out the 150 and I liked the branch line. New iow: much better to the original, but it still has weird physics and the sounds are kinda loud in the cab. 204: I've only read about the bad things, but actually playing with it was fun. 1938 stock: don't own wcl steam pack: don't own EDN: packed with brand new features. Announcements, 2nd scottish route in game, working lifts, detailed interiors, neutral sections. modeling was really well done. Most of the bugs reported on launch did not actually affect my gameplay. Some stuff got patched. If the neutral section braking bug gets patched, I will be happy. Skyhook 187: tolerable with a sound mod. New type of freight loco that is not another 185. Don't use german safety systems, so those bugs didn't bother me. Cane creek: only looks beautiful, but too slow for me. Hsc: scenery looks great. There are some different activities to do. However, I don't enjoy the route due to the weird physics, braking behaviors or light consists. Had to get a sound mod due to the gevo sounds being poor. mml: have not purchased yet, but once updates go live, might pick it up. TSG makes high quality products and it shows. It does take a while to make since they are a small team, but I think it is well worth the wait. g6: very good. No other words lol Niddertalbahn: awesome. I like the older rolling stock and the lush scenery and custom assets.
I only own the 2 US routes from Skyhook Games Cane Creek 4/10 Only real positive I can take from this is the scenery. The rolling stock is poor and the route should of included more of the mainline from an operational perspective. Horseshoe Curve 5/10 Like Cane Creek HSC has great scenery but subpar stock. Reusing the trash flats for TOFC is fine, if this was the 1980's, not 2010'ish. (Not to mention the euro trailers). The gondola from what I gather doesn't even spawn in timetable mode. What's the point of a new car if it doesn't appear. The GEVO's sounds are a bit of a disappointment especially when compared to what the C4 from Cajon Sound like.
So far haven't owned one of them if one of the third parties were to be on sale like Niddertalbahn Bad Vilbel Glauburg-Stockheim Rhein Main Verkehrsverbund vs Schweizer Bundesbahn S-Bahn Luzern Sursee Olten I would take the trains in Germany route over the rivet games route because it will be neglected and broken or require multiple patches to make it like a normal route. Therefore I go TSG > Rivet Games
I disagree with OPs ratings, especially when it concerns Rivet add-ons. Sure, Rivet DLC may have their flaws, but their add-ons add something new to the endless DTG stuff that seems to consist mostly of the same old stuff over and over again. The Isle of Wight line was Rivet first route, and they had to earn some money while also investing in learning the tools. It was a short route, but it offered a whole different experience than what we had available back then. The community asked for a German diesel locomotive, and Rivet delivered with the BR204 way before DTG dit. DTG played safe, milking the same old Dostos and Electrostars. Arosa was an ambitious project. It was extremely mountainous, while Rivet (and even DTG) were still learning the tools. It was also the first narrow gauge route, the first route outside of the big 3 countries. Yes it has flaws, but while DTG were playing safe again, by releasing even more Dostos and Electrostars in landscapes that were hilly at best, Rivet took risks to deliver something the community requested. And 2 years later, Arosa still offers a unique experience. You can see a lot of custom made assets. It's not perfect, but I find it quite enjoyable. We don't have anything else running narrow gauge trains through the mountains, do we? Don't count on DTG to ever do that. West Cornwall is another route I quite enjoy, and is a route I've seen suggested by the community several times, as well as community requests for the Class 150. It also provided another route to use our BR Blue locos on, also requested by the community. And personally I think the route does still offer a nice change of pace from the usual UK stuff we're seeing from DTG. So personally I'm quite happy with Rivet, looking forward they come up with next, because I know it's more likely to offer a unique experience than the stuff DTG comes up with (although admittedly, there are some exceptions where DLC actually adds something notably different). Can't say much about the other third parties. Haven't bought any Skyhook DLC yet, mainly because it doesn't really add anything DTG hasn't already done. Can't really judge TSG either, not a fan of shunting and their first route is a tad too pricey for me (although it does look good and certainly tops the wishlist waiting for a sale).
it is always possible to have lots of comments on quality, but the third party developers are not doing it very badly. Most of the mentioned routes are enjoyable to play for me, if I own them. I do not live in the UK, Germany, France or US and that is a great advantage when playing TSW. Many issues keep hidden for me, especially in the scenery. I like some routes more than others, but this has little to do with the developers. Of course people make mistakes and the way stuff is tested can be improved a lot. I think it shows that developing routes for TSW is not something easy. and the people at these forums tend to be far more critical than the casual player.
And now we're stuck with a horrendously broken 204 and will likely never get a proper one. You raise some good points, absolutely, but I always had the impression that Rivet never learned from their mistakes. The physics were always broken. It drove me to the point that I stopped even looking at their releases - that's my bad and maybe I should look at their newer things and see if they finally learned to do proper physics. The stuff I'm most interested in (Arosa, 38 stock, WCL) all suffer from it, however. Maybe it's just a case of once bitten, twice shy. Bought the 204 at release and my disappointment with the physics is immense.
I agree with the above reply. Just because Rivet are bringing something new to the table - which I will give them credit for - doesn't give them a free pass. You're now, more likely than not, stuck with an Arosa Linie with poorly made mountains with minimal trees on them. You'll probably be forever stuck with a poor attempt at the BR 204, the 1938 TS, Island Line (with the 483), and so forth. I enjoy WCL, LZN, IOW NSE and the other Rivet DLC that I do own, however if I look at it objectively, I think the scores I gave are quite fair. If I were to be subjective and just give how much I enjoy them, this thread would have no purpose, as it is to review the standard Third Parties are setting when it comes to quality of DLC (which, I personally think is decent when you average it out), not discuss how much we enjoy them.
I don't want to go into every single DLC released until now, but want to go into some studios: Rivet is a master of detail, be it in new assets such as working elevators, playing pianos or pretty house fronts, not forgetting Edinburgh Castle. There's even a moving tram, greetings to ViewApp. TSG always takes the time it needs, so fewer mistakes creep in and the players are often happier with the product. A small masterpiece was also delivered with the Niddertalbahn. Skyhook created some very awesome landscapes that took TSW to a new visual level when you think of Cane Creek. While UE4 rock assets are already available, you must first assemble them in a way that creates an amazing Grand Canyon. HSC also had many nice details, such as a railway museum and a great landscape. MML is not quite as visually impressive. Although the power plant is large, it's more a reminder of a fossil era that is about to end. I think for UK railfans the trains score here mainly. Conclusion: in the end it's all about making railfans happy or winning new ones. As someone recently described in the forum: quality should always come before quantity. Even if time schedules and budget planning are too tight, you should still take more time, because no money in the world can buy a good reputation.
