There's Something About Ntp And The Class 45...

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by OldVern, Apr 15, 2022.

  1. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    3,632
    Likes Received:
    5,420
    NTP1504.jpg

    ...that just keeps you coming back for more.

    NTP is still one of the best looking UK routes, particularly at dawn or dusk when the distant hills are silhouetted against the sky.

    Class 45 remains the best UK diesel in the game, looks. physics and oh those sounds, the rippling Sulzer engine, sweet, sweet fan kicking in, the brake rub and the perfect jointed track effect. Very, very zen.

    Please try and come back to this standard, DTG.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Apr 15, 2022
    • Like Like x 28
  2. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    4,748
    Likes Received:
    2,663
    Definitely agree with you on that one and why not make it Blue Star MU equipment active. Means Class 37/5 in BR Blue has a chance of forming a Double headed train with Class 45.
    Class 101 Daisy DMU it's actually a pain in the arse for me because you can actually stop way before the station overshoot the station basically a Matt Knebworth Move. Reason for this it's the vacuum brakes
     
  3. DominusEdwardius

    DominusEdwardius Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    198
    Likes Received:
    251
    It didn't have blue star equipment at this point, it was removed when dual brakes were added in the late 60s Early 70s.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  4. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    3,632
    Likes Received:
    5,420
    AFAIR the Class 45’s were never fitted for multiple working either within the Class or with other types. In the event double heading was required, it would have been tandem working with both locos manned and driven individually.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. chacal#2181

    chacal#2181 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2021
    Messages:
    224
    Likes Received:
    269
    210 % agree !
    We need more 70- 80 diesel era UK routes. The gloomy feel of NTP still hasnt be equaled IMO. I really like the immersion we have there. More even than dusk I like cloudy rain..

    Of course a revisited timetable (more bustier ! ) would be nice too.

    And a new route for the 45 ! That a beast that need to be uleashed !

    Give us moar, UK old style !! :love:
     
    • Like Like x 4
  6. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2017
    Messages:
    483
    Likes Received:
    1,049
    For me, NTP is in need of some much needed love, OK, the mountains may look OK at dawn/dusk but during the day, they just look awfully textured and the City's buildings and roads are truly awful and don't get me started on the lack of City lighting at night.

    Besides it's graphical short comings (and lack of AI), I too do enjoy a good thrash across the Pennines, though my preferred traction is a 40 and the sounds on that are far from perfect.

    I know we have an update coming for this route but unfortunately I'm not expecting improved textures, lighting, sounds or AI improvement.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    3,632
    Likes Received:
    5,420
    I do agree about the night lighting and have mentioned it previously, Manchester, Huddersfield and Leeds city centres look like the middle of the Gobi Desert. But at dawn or dusk it is perfect.

    And yes, the 45 could do with a longer route to really stretch its legs and get up to speed. Either a vintage MML or something with the Lickey Incline in it. So frustrating at times, DTG have produced these great classic diesels but do not seem interested in creating any more routes to run them on.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  8. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2017
    Messages:
    483
    Likes Received:
    1,049
    I used to play that on a text based train simulator on my old Amstrad CPC 464 in the 1980's! How times have changed!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    3,632
    Likes Received:
    5,420
    Probably Simudrive!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,536
    Likes Received:
    1,831
    NTP is still one of my favourite routes. It felt empty but it was and is very fun to drive. But is the 47 still broken in service mode?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2019
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    304
    Agreed NTP is a great route. My only real issue with it is that it occasionally throws you an incorrect signal sequence, with the distant off and the home signal on. I haven’t had any issues with the 47 on NTP, although I know others have.

    I’ve enjoyed driving the 45 on West Cornwall, incidentally. Not an unprototypical location for it, and higher speed running than on NTP. It really puts your braking skills to the test, too, with some steeply graded approaches to stations, and the 45’s brake controller being a bit tricky (as it was in reality, I’m told).

    The Down run is spoilt by a couple of the station stopping points being in the wrong position (how long can it take to correct such a simple error?), but the Up run is great.
     
  12. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    340
    I've heard that term before but never understood it - what is a 'Knebworth move, and how does one stop before a station and still manage to overshoot it?
     
  13. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    2,322
    Likes Received:
    3,738
    As to that, have a look at this.

    I think there’s an “or” missing in the original post. Stop short or overshoot.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  14. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,453
    Likes Received:
    1,780
    Aye; NTP is one of the most beautiful and well done routes
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    179
    Likes Received:
    340
    Many thanks. :)
     
  16. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Messages:
    1,152
    Likes Received:
    1,625
    Totally agree. Just atmosphere pure in the br era driving into the sunset.

    Same for tvl, driving empty steel wagons to lackenby and return with full. You can do 3 services without leaving the game.
     
  17. ghawk2005

    ghawk2005 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2020
    Messages:
    415
    Likes Received:
    792
    I agree, The class 45 is about the only decent diesel loco in the game apart from the Class 33, 31 and HST. I’m using it now funnily enough. They could all do with more wind and external track running noises in the cab but other than that they are superb.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  18. Daytona

    Daytona Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2018
    Messages:
    197
    Likes Received:
    143
    I love the look and feel of the Northern Trans Pennine route too, tho, because I like a challenge, I tend to use the less powerful Class 40, more. The 101 is an absolute gem. All the traction is beautifully crafted and textured.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Messages:
    1,152
    Likes Received:
    1,625
    To be fair most of the uk diesels are modeled quite well.

    The 37 has switchable exhausters, traction cutout and you can disconnect the slave unit. There are even more features. Same for the class 20 & 40.

    Obviously most locos of that era have the battery switch or the vac / air switch in the engine room. But i can live with that how it is now.

    I think ntp makes a great route for a game expansion dlc (like the ska was released). Additional services with the 31, maybe using a departmental cl.40 and bring in rivets turbots and seacow. On top ntp could use an a.i booster to get busier at manchester or leeds.

    Screenshot_20220417-122749_Chrome.jpg
    Screenshot_20220417-122649_Chrome.jpg
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2022
    • Like Like x 6
  20. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2019
    Messages:
    938
    Likes Received:
    1,604
    Yes I love NTP, it could do with some love. Have a plan to do one or more scenarios on it at some point. Although I feel we could have a little more love for Tees Valley as well. and the likes of an ex works Large logo 56 wandering around the place. For me I like bothe the 47, 45 and 40 not a big fan of the 101 lol. :)

    Hentis
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,664
    Likes Received:
    3,899
    Never really interested in old UK diesels, but as I focussed on playing older-ish content lately (focussing more on the 313/SKA/465/BML instead of playing for example Sherman Hill or Luzern), I am starting to get to the point of wanting a new-ish experience without the hassle and inop safety systems of SMH, so I will definitely put NTP on my wishlist, hoping for a sale - which will never happen on xbox -

    I have a question, does the heavy freight pack add a lot to the route? I will also keep an eye on the Class 20, since I don't why I always liked that loco IRL, how good is that in TSW?
     
  22. lcyrrjp

    lcyrrjp Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2019
    Messages:
    163
    Likes Received:
    304
    The Heavy Freight pack is good on NTP in that it gives more variety of trains to drive, but the down side is it worsened the incorrect signal sequence bug (because there are more trains, so more signal checks, so more opportunity for it to go wrong). On balance I’m glad I got it, though. The class 40 is an enjoyable challenge on 45/47 timings.

    I don’t know about the Class 20, because I don’t drive freight trains in TSW (due to them weirdly not having proper schedules) and you can’t drive it on passenger trains.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  23. hyperlord

    hyperlord Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2019
    Messages:
    969
    Likes Received:
    920
    I hope for RailDriver implementation to re-discover NTP, rained a lot there IIRC ;-)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  24. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    2,322
    Likes Received:
    3,738
    Yes on both fronts. The heavy freight pack adds a lot of traffic on NTP and the Class 40 is my favourite loco on NTP. As said above, trying to keep on time with a whistler on the passenger services poses a real challenge and is very enjoyable. And you can’t pass up the chance to get the 12t vans - they’re adorable :D

    Class 20 is also nice. Perhaps a little quiet in the cab but loads of fun. The horn is magnificent and it’s certainly a different experience on TVL - no slow speed control for (un-)loading and a little on the underpowered side (similar to the Class 40 on NTP). One warning though in case it matters to you: The Class 20 only adds around 3 services. The rest of its services are subbed in Class 37 services.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  25. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,536
    Likes Received:
    1,831
    The trouble with the 37 is that, alongside the Electrostars, it's one of the few trains in TSW to have been modelled badly. Like the Electrostars, the 37 is a bit too wide which can easily be noticed at the front of the train.
     
  26. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2021
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    585
    I really need to give NTP some love. Back when I started playing in early 2021, I got it as part of the TSW deluxe edition, which was on sale and gave me dozens of routes for just a few bucks. Went through all of the included add-ons one by one, and NTP really scared me as a relative railsim rookie with the complex class 101. I’m much more experienced now and ready for a second try! Recently spawned at a station and just rode as a passenger to get a first impression of the atmosphere, and I was really impressed. Can’t wait to get started!
     
    • Like Like x 3
  27. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    1,465
    Likes Received:
    2,951
    Yep I'm in the same boat. Hardly touched it because I've a ton of services to get thru which are rail driver supported. Once NTP gets full support itll be added to my list of rotations.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  28. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,514
    Likes Received:
    1,670
    Love the old 60's to 80's diesels. I spent a lot of my youth on the HST so have fond memories of that. And of the big freight Loco's going through Didcot. I do love the 101 though although DTG are guilty of over using it a bit. The 101 is just a joy to drive on the RD imo. I think the 'Bubble Car' would be even more iconic and would like the 117 and 119.

    For me what is missing on these diesels is the sound, they were loud and iconic.
     
  29. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    3,632
    Likes Received:
    5,420
    They really need to get that gearbox whine correctly implemented. Probably a pitfall of sampling sounds off a preserved example (assuming that’s how they did it) as recording the engine revving in neutral at a stand is not the same as when the train is in motion.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  30. atpyatt

    atpyatt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2020
    Messages:
    78
    Likes Received:
    259
    NTP is still my favourite route, it manages to capture an atmosphere unlike any other route I've played. I'm thinking about expanding the number of paths available in the scenario planner for my next project. At present the options are too limited and you can't really create anything interesting with it.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  31. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2019
    Messages:
    188
    Likes Received:
    367
    NTP is good but could be great, Leeds and Manchester Vic are empty compared to how they really would be. The amount of junctions en route also means that a lot more traffic would feed in and out of the route at various points. I think the time table for the core of the route is quite good mind. Not sure on the lighting in the night always felt it too dark.

    Needs another 1st gen DMU probably a 108 would suffice as that could be used elsewhere in many cases.

    A 56 would be good for some Coal traffic and a 25 for lighter duties. Unfortunately I can't see these happening in the near future if at all....
     
    • Like Like x 5
  32. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2020
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    1,288
    Yeah, I really do love NTP too, though I do agree that there is plenty more that can be done with the route, it feels like we're still barely scratching the surface on the potential for it
     
    • Like Like x 2
  33. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,514
    Likes Received:
    1,670
    This is the story with just about all UK routes, except for maybe 1 or 2 routes they need to be flushed out with more Loco's.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  34. rabid

    rabid Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    595
    I would tattoo « I ❤️ DTG » on my posterior if they added a class 25/1 to NTP.
    More services and more classes would definitely do the route justice!
     
    • Like Like x 6
  35. Lightspeed

    Lightspeed Active Member

    Joined:
    May 29, 2020
    Messages:
    249
    Likes Received:
    220
    Apparently the BR era stuff don’t sell as well, “apparently”. Which is a shame because I like driving the 45, 47, 31, 33 and 150. There’s so much of British railways that need to be explored such as 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s. Can see an evolution of the railway in these eras.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  36. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Messages:
    1,152
    Likes Received:
    1,625
    Not much to sell with only 2- 1/2 Routes. I dont believe this is actually true about the bad selling. Seems probably just an easier way to (re)use the electrostars instead of create the br typical extended track infrastructure.

    I agree, we need more br era routes. Its not the shiny dtg logo with the beautiful tsw2 text, which brought me here.

    After stopping with TSxx, it was a youtube clip with the cl.40 and cl08 from ntp, convinced me to get into the franchaise after a stop of 3 years from trainsim.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  37. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    3,632
    Likes Received:
    5,420
    I will have to start a “most played” UK route thread to see if we can assess that. Of course miles driven, the only parameter we have, is not a 100% accurate yardstick as you could spend 45 mins doing a shunting scenario but only clock up 2 miles driven. I also have a feeling the statistic has a habit of resetting itself, too.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  38. antony.henley

    antony.henley Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2019
    Messages:
    938
    Likes Received:
    1,604
    Which is what I was told as well. Which is unfortunate, I think for some of us (I can't believe I'm gonna say this) "oldies" :o who grew up as kids in the 70's and 80's (the best was the 80's lol) this was our time, such a plethora of different services and in the early 80s the start of the privatisation of the railways to what they are now. The start of the Large Logo era, Railfreight Red Stripe Grey, Inter City, Scotrail & Network Southeast to name bar a few. When locos and rolling stock went from drab BR Blue / Grey to Skittles rainbow colours in liveries (well not so much rainbow colours leave that a couple of years). The 70's 80's & 90's were some of the best in the UK railway based. Its still nice today to see new diesel / electric / Hybrid locomotives being built but my heart will always be in the 80s.

    Hentis
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2022
    • Like Like x 4
  39. Aldarion

    Aldarion Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2020
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    52
    There is only one loco i drive in one route that makes me open my windows wide and have my logitech 5.1 surround at least at 60 volume.
    The class 45 in NTP.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  40. Aldarion

    Aldarion Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2020
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    52
    apparently.
    Well, for TSW I have only ever bought the Marseille-Avignon, BR Heavy Freight, TVL, class 31 and class 20. Everything else that I own came by default with TSW2020 and TSW2, wich is a shame - I look at my colection and have the feeling that I will never enjoy half of it and that makes me step back from spending some more in new dlc... but let's face it, I will never touch the bakerloo or lirr routes and the GW Express doesn't really atract me much. just like to drive american freight ocasionaly, and I am not that fond of german routes either.
    I would definetly buy more dlc from br blue era... both diesel or electric (love the 86/87). Love the old times from ts2013/14 with the antecipation of Woodhead, or even any strech of the WCML.... and never lost hope to see crianlarich-oban in one of the simulators.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  41. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,514
    Likes Received:
    1,670
    I thought I had misheard Matt when he said on a recent stream 'no-one likes BR Blue stuff' but he did. There is plenty of support for the BR Blue era, loved it personally.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  42. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Messages:
    1,515
    Likes Received:
    4,011
    Id love to see what that’s based on, NTP & TVL we’re quite popular releases, maybe they aren’t so popular now, because they simply aren’t as rich as current routes.

    DLGW is probably not very popular, for obvious reasons.

    WCL is a mishmash of era’s that is a huge turn off, along with other issues.

    We haven’t had a proper BR route in years, so I’d like to hear why it is that DTG think they’re unpopular…I certainly hope it isn’t based upon their antiquated or botched releases.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  43. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,536
    Likes Received:
    1,831
    My most played route in TSW1 was GWE and my most played route in 2 was LGV, both modern routes. However, I doubt the reason for these routes is a subconscious bias towards modern routes. GWE mainly became my most played TSW1 route because the HST runs were just the right length for my short attention span. Because of their length, I rarely touched the 166 or 66 in Service Mode. LGV, however, is due to the good sounds of the TGV making me want to keep on driving. That's the power of good sounds! The Class 166 and HST also have good (better) sounds now and I still drive the 166 quite a bit, but generally outside of GWE.

    Sounds contributing to driving time applies to TS as well. The trains I liked the most before my PC died were the AP Valenta HST and AP Class 170, because I just love how those trains sound. That said, the quality of sounds doesn't really matter to me. The TSW2 166 and HST aren't very realistic sounding but I still like how they sound. Equally, I put up with the Kuju HST and Class 37 and 55 because I still like how they sound.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  44. rat7_mobile

    rat7_mobile Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2020
    Messages:
    608
    Likes Received:
    204
    What do you mean no BR route lately, we just had the Dresden one with the BR 612, it is very recent
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  45. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2020
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    356
    An inspiring thread, in that I was moved to reinstall the BR Blue South Lancs freeware route by Nick Hudson (RIP) and Andy Freeman for TS Classic (perhaps one of the best routes made for the game, and it's free). It made me reflect on how something of that depth and scale is just impossible for TSW, a labour of love made purely because the creators wanted to see it in-game. If you've never seen it, by the way (I hadn't until last year) go and check it out now. Yes, it suffers from the TSC fan-made issue of requiring other downloads to work properly, but relatively few considering.

    That's what TSW will never be able to provide. There is no point hoping that it ever will, because it simply doesn't have the capacity. Having said that, TSC obviously cannot provide the graphical fidelity or sense of truly being among it like TSW - the atmosphere of the Pennines, fog surrounding you as you descend towards Standedge, it's a pity no other route has truly managed to capture this though, certainly none I've played. If NTP really is a less popular route, I suppose it will remain a curate's egg, and that's why I haven't and will not fully transition from TSC to TSW. It feels like that's ok, though - both do their own thing, and in a way it feels almost appropriate that to play these vintage maps you have to load up this creaking old platform.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  46. Rybnicki

    Rybnicki Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2020
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    356
    If I'm taking a joke literally then I apologise but this is another initialism issue - BR in this context is British Rail, rather than Baureihe.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  47. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,514
    Likes Received:
    1,670
    I am sure if DTG could update TS1 there would have been no need for TSW. I don't buy 'this could not be done' narrative fully.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  48. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    3,632
    Likes Received:
    5,420
    BR = British Rail(ways).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  49. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2020
    Messages:
    1,514
    Likes Received:
    1,670
    You should tell him about the 101, that will confuse him, lol.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  50. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    212
    Likes Received:
    308
    [removed by Protagonist - that's uncalled for]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2022
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page