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This Guy Pretty Much Sums-up The Problem With Tsw.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Wolfy, Apr 28, 2019.

  1. Wolfy

    Wolfy Active Member

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    He likes TSW, but is also good at raising issues that need addressing.





    This is NOT bashing DTG, and it is also NOT saying that everybody should boycott them. He does have valid argument though.
     
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  2. 37114

    37114 Active Member

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    I thought a lot of what he said was nonsense personally but each to their own.
     
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  3. StratPlayer62

    StratPlayer62 Active Member

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    First I'd like to say this is the most of MSB that I've seen as German Trains don't interest me at all, but the graphics do look fantastic.

    I think he makes a lot of good points, and I agree with a lot if not all of it, and it is why I have not spent anything on TSW in probably 2 years, and very little with TSxx, I'm just tired of the way DTG are doing things. They need to start releasing more quality in their product and release a route that I REALLY want before I open my wallet for them again.
     
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  4. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The quality is going up.
     
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  5. John Doe

    John Doe New Member

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    Thanks to the guy of SimUk. This is the most serious and best statement on the current situation of DTG.
     
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  6. keksman

    keksman Active Member

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    Then bring up your points/counterarguments? You do know what the point of a forum is?
    Yes, but only for the latest DLC's without applying these small quality improvements for older DLC's.
     
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  7. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    And when have they ever gone back and improved the quality of older DLC's in TS2019? I thought not... that puts TSW on the same level as TS19 already. In TSW, while much of the older routes are left untouched, they ARE going back and adding fixes and features like better diesel physics, working PZB, and eventually road traffic (possibly).

    For the first year and a half or so, there was no sign of ANY fixes to any routes. Now there are. DTG is improving, not just on the newer routes (which are of better quality), but on fixing older routes, even if to a lesser extent. They're even going back to CSX:HH for diesel physics and lighting updates, and that one's only ever going to be on the PC, so it isn't even helping all their players.

    IMO the communication is improving too, but I'm still a bit annoyed about Discord, and don't exactly have evidence, so I'm just gonna leave that one.
     
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  8. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It is strange how there is much moaning (by a few) that things don't get fixed, and when they start fixing things, those same people stay silent or go looking for other things they can complain about. The Youtube review is just someones opinion, just like this post, however it seems to me that some of these Youtube reviewers think they are some kind of demigod and are speaking some kind of truth (as well as being patronising) rather than just giving their opinion.

    Personally I think most of the TSW output so far is of good quality not just the latest releases, although there is no doubt they have improved. My main complaint is still the lack of atmosphere on some routes (WSR I'm looking at you) and I do wish you could wander away from the stations.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
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  9. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    He is basically saying don't purchase DLC as you will be encouraging DTG to be the bad guys (although of course he says he is not saying that)! I just find being told what we should do completely patronising. Who died and made him tsw users spokeperson?!
     
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  10. Ninetofive925

    Ninetofive925 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the fact that a timetable needs to be released for MSB, but pretty much disagree with the rest of the points.
    Don't get me wrong, there are some issues with TSW and DTG, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as this video seems to suggest. TSW has come a long way since heavy haul, and in my opinion the game is only getting more realistic and optimised.
     
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  11. 37114

    37114 Active Member

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    Yes thank you I do and if I wish to make any particular point I will and already have and that's my prerogative thank you very much.
     
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  12. Yerolo

    Yerolo Active Member

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    Sorry, but I didn't agree with anything this guy said at all. To say that no improvements are being made to the older DLCs is a blatant lie as we have already seen with Rapid Transit, the baked lighting improvements which have been applied to alot of the earlier routes and of course the upcoming Diesel-Electric improvements for CSX:HH.

    He just comes across as one of many whiners you see on the Steam forums on a daily basis. Not buying future DLC as a protest will harm the game in the long term and if enough people were to do that the game would surely die. I'm sure I am not alone in saying I would never want to see that happen and if he can't see that he is is trying to harm the game he confesses he loves so much, then he is more of an idiot that he comes across as in that video.
     
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  13. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Quite, and I wouldn't be surprised if he goes and buys it anyway! He seemed more interested in having a go at DTG's business model and predicting TSW's demise, we have been hearing similar for the last few years! It is one thing giving an opinion, it is another appointing yourself as some kind of spokesperson for the trainsim community and telling people what you think they should do without any kind of evidence to base your views on!
     
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  14. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    If you want to know what's wrong with HH and whether DTG are improving things, go and watch last week's devstream because Matt talked about what they did wrong and why, and what they're doing to not make those same mistakes again.
    I don't remember whether he mentioned going back and fixing those things etc but certainly we have seen better and more optimised content in 2019 compared with 2018, some retroactive fixes applied to routes (which many never expected) and new functionality in layering, random consist formation etc

    SO to say nothing is being fixed and nothing new is happening isn't true.

    They might not be the best at putting this out in digested format for comment, but it's better than it was, and that's the main thing for me
     
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  15. keksman

    keksman Active Member

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    Why are we comparing Train Sim World with Train Simulator? How about we start comparing TSW with literally any other game in the market thats been a long time in development and not developed by DTG? Every new feature thats been added to ETS gets implemented in ATS in a few weeks. New Features added for Tourist Bus Simulator get added to Fernbus Simulator in a few weeks. So why is DTG not capable of doing the same even though they sell 50x more DLC's?

    They fixed the PZB on RT because people werent going to buy this one new Train for RT. They werent initially going to fix it even though it was bugged for more than a year. Either way, nobody is talking about going back and fixing old routes. Thats something they HAVE to do and is expected anyways. How long have they been working on the diesel physics? This one alone shows how low of a priority it is for them to go back and add new features to older DLC's.
     
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  16. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'm sorry if they aren't working fast enough for you, but the fact remains that they are working on it. This is not Tourist Bus Simulator. If you want to play Tourist Bus Simulator, fo play Tourist Bus Simulator.

    I get it- I've seen plenty of games with weekly updates myself. But with such a small team and such a large game, I've seen many other games that update just as infrequently as TSW and STILL find them enjoyable.

    Besides, I never said DTG was perfect- and the fact is, they also have to make some DLC's- but they are definitely improving. That's all I'm asking for.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
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  17. Remko

    Remko Well-Known Member

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    And what do you suggest to compare TSW to?
    There is no other game like TSW.

    ETS and ATS, Tourist Bus and Fernbus, both are exactly the same game running on the same engine with just different content in it.
    Ofcourse it's easy then to implement an ETS engine update in ATS within basically minutes (a few weeks after some testing).
     
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  18. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    He doesn’t even buy DLC anymore. He receives fee keys from DTG.
     
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  19. keksman

    keksman Active Member

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    My point isnt that they are not working "fast enough". My point is that they spent close to 0 of their priorities on actually improving the core game and applying promised features to older DLC's. How many DLC's did they release in the time frame of the last 2-3 weeks? 3? And how many years have we been waiting for the editor? 2-3 years?

    DTG is NOT a small team anymore. Just take a look at the frequency of released DLC's.

    Uh.. ? Train Sim World DLC's also share the same engine with the other DLC's and the core game... because its literally the same game?
     
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  20. Ninetofive925

    Ninetofive925 Well-Known Member

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    That is a fair point, actually
     
  21. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Have you seen what they did for Rapid Transit, the diesel locomotives and what is occurring to Sandpatch?
     
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  22. Ninetofive925

    Ninetofive925 Well-Known Member

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    Yet another fair point, but i agree with keksman, the back-upgrading process is slow. (too slow maybe)
     
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  23. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    A business needs a revenue stream to remain solvent. DLC provides that revenue stream, without it there is no more DTG and no more TSW. They are working on the editor but if they just concentrated on that rather than working on it whilst releasing DLC then there would be no TSW to use an editor on, the editor is not a direct revenue stream, it might indirectly lead to more sales but I suspect not to the extent DLC does. They are making improvements to some older content as noted above, but as usual these get forgotten when someone wants to argue that they are not making any improvements!
     
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  24. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    How quickly do you think it should be happening?
     
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  25. Ninetofive925

    Ninetofive925 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know the resources DTG has, but i think the HH diesel fix, for instance, should have been released back when the GWE locos got their overhaul, at the same time.
    Just my opinion, again, I don't know if they could have done it faster as I'm just looking at this from the outside.
     
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  26. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the HH diesel fix wasn't ready! We don't know their resources and we don't know if they could do it faster, but it is easy to accuse them of being too slow!
     
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  27. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Member

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    Désolé , j'écrit en Français mais :

    Mon psedo est Zawal vous me connaissez peut-être ( ou pas d'ailleurs ) mais peut importe , Je suis créateur de route sur TS depuis 2013 et j'en ai fait plus de 30 à ce jour .

    Je me suis bien amusé sur TS mais aujourd'hui je préfère de loin TSW ,cette semaine j'ai désinstallé TS2019 , et je pense ne plus jamais y rejouer .

    La cause est que sur TS il y a trop de choses qui ne vont pas , comme par exemple les saccades ( lag ) , les " dump " répétitif , les vieux graphismes , l'éditeur bancal ( je peste souvent sur l'éditeur , dump , dump , dump )... etc etc

    Je pense sincèrement qu'il est temps pour nous de passer à autre chose et je pense aussi que DTG a fait de très gros progrès sur TSW et qu'il est aujourd'hui bien mieux qu'il ne l'était à ses débuts .

    Je constate que ce sont toujours les même qui râle pour rien .
    Si vous n'aimez pas le jeu , ne l'achetez pas et ne venez pas gâcher le plaisir de ceux qui comme moi aime jouer à TSW .
    DTG ne vous oblige pas à acheter leurs produits , arrêtez de toujours les blâmer , dans la vie ont a pas toujours ce que l'on veut et DTG n'a pas à ce plier à votre bon vouloir.
    C'est une entreprise , il savent parfaitement ce qu'il font , il écoute ce que l'on dit et essaie de faire au mieux .

    Moi même étant Français j'adorerai avoir une route Française et du matériels roulant Français , mais il n'y en a pas ... et alors , ce n'est pas pour autant que je peste en permanence contre DTG !

    Quand l'éditeur de route arrivera je suis sur que moi ou un autre en fera une , et tout ceux qui aujourd'hui peste viendrons en masse sur TSW et je rigolerai bien ce jour la . ;)

    Merci DTG c'est le meilleur simu de train que nous aillons jamais eu jusqu'ici .

    Zawal

    PS: désolé d'avoir écrit en Français .
     
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  28. Ninetofive925

    Ninetofive925 Well-Known Member

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    Parfaitement d'accord!
     
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  29. keksman

    keksman Active Member

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    Where did I say I expect them to fully change their priorities and drop everything to work solely on things like the editor? You know theres an extreme, nothing and an in between.
    Do me a favour and look up some old posts from 2017 in the steam forums for example. People expected the editor to be released back then because DTG hard teased it and promising it to be released "very soon". Remember the mulitplayer they have promised in 2017 too? Thats something you cant even ask for right now without being laughed at because its something thats never going to be released anytime soon.

    What did they improve exactly? Fix issues who shouldnt have been at release of the the DLC anyways? One and a half year after? Is this really something positive worth mentioning? I dont think so. Fact is, the core of TSW has been the same since 2 years atleast and the only thing thats changed is the list of available DLC's. The diesel improvements are going to be something great, but how many more DLC's are they going to release before the diesel improvements? Oh wait, I remembered something. They changed the UI so we can access the store ingame. Great, awesome, perfect...
     
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  30. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Member

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    [QUOTE = "keksman, post: 75234, membre: 4212"] Où ai-je dit que je m'attendais à ce qu'ils changent complètement leurs priorités et abandonnent tout pour travailler uniquement sur des éléments tels que l'éditeur? Vous connaissez un extrême, rien et un entre les deux.
    Faites-moi une faveur et recherchez par exemple d'anciens articles de 2017 dans les forums Steam. Les gens s'attendaient à ce que l'éditeur soit publié à l'époque parce que DTG l'avait durement taquiné en lui promettant de le publier "très bientôt". Vous souvenez-vous du lecteur multi-joueurs promis en 2017? C’est quelque chose que vous ne pouvez même pas demander pour l’instant sans vous moquer de vous car c’est quelque chose qui ne sera jamais publié bientôt.

    Qu'ont-ils amélioré exactement? Résoudre les problèmes qui n'auraient pas dû être à la publication du DLC de toute façon? Un an et demi après? Est-ce vraiment quelque chose de positif qui mérite d'être mentionné? Je ne pense pas. Le fait est que le noyau de TSW est le même depuis au moins 2 ans et que la seule chose qui a changé est la liste des DLC disponibles. Les améliorations du diesel vont être quelque chose de génial, mais combien de DLC vont-ils libérer avant les améliorations du diesel? Oh, attends, je me suis souvenu de quelque chose. Ils ont changé l'interface utilisateur afin que nous puissions accéder au jeu en magasin. Génial, génial, parfait ... [/ DEVIS]

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ou avez vous vue que je parlai de vous ?

    Je parle en général , ne prenez pas tout pour vous mon vieux ... :|

    Mais si c'est cela que vous voulez , soit !


    Vous n'este pas satisfait ?
    Et bien partez et laissez nous tranquille .

    Je vous signal au passage que si DTG se plante à cause de gens comme vous , nous n'aurons plus rien en matière de simu de train , c'est cela que vous voulez ?

    A force de trop en vouloir vous finirez par ne plus rien avoir .


    Depuis 2017 vous n'este pas satisfait ? personnellement à votre place ça aurait fait longtemps que j'aurait quitté TSW et DTG puisqu'ils sont le mal absolu pour vous .

    Vous n'avez donc rien d'autre à faire que de critiquer ?
    Et vous que s'avez vous faire mon amis ?
    Vous développer des jeux vous aussi ?
    Vous faite quelques chose pour la communauté de TS ou de TSW ?

    Les gens comme vous on en voie plein sur les forums , il passent leurs journée ( vie ) à pourrir les dev car ils n'on évidement rien d'autre à faire et à apporter que leurs critiques nauséabonde.

    Bref ,en ce qui me concerne la discussion avec vous est close pour moi car vous vous empêtré dans votre haine de DTG et cela n'est en aucun cas objectif pour moi et la communauté .

    Et part pitié arrêtez de dire toujours la même chose , vous me fatigué , vous parlez pour ne rien dire , vous répétez toujours la même chose encore et encore .

    Pour l'éditeur seul une très minorité saura s'en servir , et je doute que vous le sachiez vous même.

    Ceci est mon ultime réponse pour vous puisque vous pensiez que je m'adressais à vous , voila qui est fait et j'espère que ma réponse vous suffira .

    PS: il n'est pas nécessaire de me répondre , je pense que tout le monde ici à compris ou vous vouliez en venir .

    Bonne soirée à vous mon cher .
     
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  31. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is worth mentioning, because it shows they are improving.
     
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  32. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is worth mentioning as they are fixing things and that is what users have been wanting and maybe now fixes will come quicker. The trouble is people moan they don't fix things, then when they do fix things, people still moan, it is almost like it is a hobby for some rather than actually using TSW. Name me one PC game/sim etc which hasn't had bugs, I cannot think of one!

    Maybe they ran into problems with the editor, maybe it isn't as simple as you seem to want to believe it is, maybe they would have released it two years ago if they could? As for multiplayer well maybe they haven't got the resources to work on that and the editor, maybe they thought the editor was more important, who knows? But I know one thing, whatever they do will not be good enough for some.
     
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  33. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Active Member

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    DTG does seem to be improving with their current DLC, which I give them credit for. I would definitely hope they continue to revisit older DLC to add improvements, especially considering NEC's signalling along with LIRR's have featured bugs that have existed since day 1, but it seems to be a step in the right direction.

    My current issue is that the editor doesn't seem like it has progressed at all. We were shown it in a livestream once, but since then, we've gotten no tangible updates on it. Sure we a paragraph every month or two saying that it is improving and entering beta testing ect., or someone on stream saying it's moving along great, but that's all it is, just words on a page. It would definitely help if we had live streams on the progress of the editor and seeing the improvements in motion. Doesn't matter if it's a quick 10 minute presentation on one minor thing they were working on, just something to ward off the conspiracy theories about it.
     
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  34. 37114

    37114 Active Member

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    I think the editor will become a huge income stream in time as a lot of people haven't bought into TSW yet because of the lack of one.
     
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  35. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes qood point.
     
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  36. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    The best part about the editor, profit-wise, is that it allows more DLC. They can start up the whole partner programme thing like in TS, and then they can make so much more content. That's sure to make more money, even though they only get some portion of it.
     
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  37. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    And the worst thing about the editor is the amount of cross requirement, failures, removals and non-updating
    Spent two days last weekend redoing the DPSimulation ECML scenario packs because AP had to remove the VTEC 91 sets from their enhancement packs. Neither DPS nor AP will update the packs to resolve missing items (I asked AP on a separate issue and they said no)
    Funny enough I never hear anyone moaning about these other companies or people (AP do charge for their stuff after all even if DPS don't) who don't go back and fix issues
     
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  38. 37114

    37114 Active Member

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    Hopefully, asset management will be improved.
     
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  39. Jeannot41

    Jeannot41 Active Member

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    Il ne répondais pas à toi, Christophe.
     
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  40. Lombra

    Lombra Member

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    Then it depends entirely on what kind of "features" you're talking about. There has been some feature disparity in the truck sims, such as the dynamic road events and detours, but an engine level feature you're obviously going to get it "for free" for both games. Most of the improvements people want for TSW is on a content level. It's comparable to SCS' ongoing effort of modernising the older parts of the ETS map.
     
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  41. Remko

    Remko Well-Known Member

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    I believe the biggest problem is the way how the world works these days.
    Everyone wants things done yesterday or better yet the week before that and in the best possible way.
    It took TS20xx years and years to get where it is now.
    TSW only just exists about 2 years now. It's still work in progress.

    Keksman used a bad example with ETS/ATS and bus simulators but his comment later on about the same engine behind all TSW dlc's is true. That's why with the latest dlc's you see updates appearing for older dlc's and the base game.
    DTG is still learning and is in that process improving things.

    All the screams about an editor drive me crazy. It's clearly not finished yet. Just be patient.
    Nobody should be wanting an editor that only works half.
    Yes it would lead to more sales. And will opens doors for 3rd party dlc which in turn will raise the bar for DTG in terms of quality.
    But only if it works properly.

    The comment made about needing revenue to stay solvent is a solid point.
    DTG needs to release dlc to survive. That is of higher priority than a free in-game editor. Otherwise we all soon have nothing.
    I do think they could pay a bit more attention to detail in especially routes. I'm sure they'd sell more.
    But apparently we all buy enough while complaining about it.
    I too did my fair share of complaining but do see DTG improving a lot in the last few dlc's and am confident they will keep improving more.
     
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  42. AyrtonS8

    AyrtonS8 Well-Known Member

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    I am seeing a lot of people saying that 3rd party developers/companies will make stuff for TSW when the editor is released. I am not too convinced they will but I hope they do as I would like to see what they bring to TSW. Will 3rd Party developers be willing to make stuff for TSW is the first question, especially since they will be comfortable with creating content for TS Classic and making a profit on that. If they do start making content for TSW, they will need to learn the Unreal Engine which will take time on top of time to make the content. This is one reason why I want to see the Editor as soon as possible because the longer it takes for it to be released, the longer it will be till we start seeing possible 3rd Party content.
    Another issue is will DTG have a similar business model in place that Flight Sim World had, where if 3rd Party developers wanted to make stuff for the game they had to have it available on Steam and DTG Store. That could mean that 3rd Party content has to be able to run on Console which will limit what 3rd Party developers can do. If this is the case, I wouldn't be surprised if Armstrong Powerhouse for example don't make Sound Packs, Enhancement Packs etc for TSW. It would also mean that DTG and Steam take a cut of the profit which may turn 3rd Partys away as it would mean less of a profit for them.
     
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  43. Remko

    Remko Well-Known Member

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    Eventually they'll have to.
    TS20xx won't be around forever.
     
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  44. AyrtonS8

    AyrtonS8 Well-Known Member

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    I think TS20XX will be here for quite some time. The game will be around for as long as it wants to be, its just how long DTG will support it and I don't think DTG will give it up anytime soon as they just updated it to 64bit and its probably their main source of income. Even if DTG was to give it up, it will still be here for years to come as 3rd Partys will still create content for it. Just look at MSTS and FSX for example.
     
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  45. Remko

    Remko Well-Known Member

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    TS20xx will be around for some years to come for sure.
    But it will slowly die somewhere in the future.
    So developers that want to continue their business in the trainsim scene will have to jump into TSW sometime before.

    Surely they're not lining up in these early stages but give it time.
    Just as we need to give DTG the time they need to properly finish the editor and let TSW further evolve.

    There's still content being created for MSTS??? :o
     
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  46. AyrtonS8

    AyrtonS8 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. Just look at places like UKTrainsim. People are still making and updating content for MSTS.

    The issue is that DTG have said they want TS Classic to stand alongside TSW where really TSW should be above TS Classic. Yes TSW isn't as big as TS Classic right now but it should really be in the future. I guess only time will tell.
     
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  47. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Even if current developers for TSx don't move to TSW there are undoubtedly people who work in unreal dev that woudl be willing to do such things, or people will come into this and learn unreal on the way

    Nothing has been mentioned so I doubt it
     
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  48. Rudolf

    Rudolf Active Member

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    Upon our request, they decided to give precedence to fix PZB and other issues for the RT route. That's why this HH update is delayed. It will come, but clearly the resources are limited. It is a commercial company and they need to gain some money. If we don't buy DLC, they can't develop and we will get a worse quality. I think al together they are doing quite well and we can look forward to some exciting features for this game in the content editor. Till the content editor is really available, it will go in a slow pace.
     
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  49. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Staff Member

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    The HH diesel fix wasn't ready by a long shot when the GWE locos were ready, so the only option there was to either put it out earlier (as we did) or wait and hold it all until it can be done, so you'd still not have it even now. I think generally everyone would just prefer that things are released as soon as they're ready.

    Matt.
     
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  50. Wolfy

    Wolfy Active Member

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    I'm not so sure.

    If TS20xx and TSW routes are both priced the same, new players (especially casual gamers who just want to "play trains" for an hour after work) are going to go for the pretty graphics every time.

    Only people clinging onto TS20xx now, are the people who have spent £1,000'S on DLC over the last few years and can't bear to let go.... like a comfortable pair of slippers.

    TS20xx needs to be killed off sooner rather than later, and the team working on DLC moved over to TSW development imo.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2019
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