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This Is Truly Aweful Design Where Is Quality Control?

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by newgenpirate, Apr 10, 2021.

  1. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    You a marran you.


    This post is over a year old.

    Resetting a post that is more than a year old is not really necessary.
    I know very well what I said 1 year ago or even 2 years ago.
    Now that has to change, no more compation.
    After 4 years I think the game shouldn't have this kind of "error" anymore.

    Ho:
    And attacking me won't get things done.

    You probably spent your day looking for an old post from me defending DTG over and over again.

    You're wasting your time.

    Everyone here is aware of the problem, not pretending to take DTG's defense .....

    Obviously I'm not the only one to be disappointed ...

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2021
  2. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Yes, Zawal. Minor problems.

    And it's hardly news that some people like to post bad reviews on Steam whining about trivial little crap. Screw 'em. Such trolls' existence isn't worth acknowledging.
     
  3. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Most negatives are because all these people can't set up the brakes in a proper way :D
    Such times...
     
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  4. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    OK you're right, so I'll let you congratulate each other.
    Incredible this bad faith.
    This forum is becoming anything, it's full of blind fanboys.
     
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  5. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Who is blind, the one pleased that the glass is 7/8 full, or the one complaining that it's 1/8 empty?
     
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  6. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Zawal, relax! We are neither your enemies nor DTG' colleagues.

    The problem is, most of the complainers are people who either didn't buy it or didn't complete the tutorial. It is also DTG's fault - true. But in my opinion, it does not speak well about these people either. 90% of players confidently coped and did not write nonsense on the Internet (also making fun of themselves by the way). They also did not pay any compliments and maybe they did not want to write a favorable review on Steam. 10%, well... I hope we can still help these people :D

    It's not a perfect DLC, but it's unique. It is also a kind of challenge.
     
  7. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    zawal.belili
    He say before he have bought every routes dovetail have done. He bought Arosa
    Very dissatisfied so dovetail had to delete his message. Now he has been hidden so you can not see history on him.
    Very sure that he will buy the next route again so he can complain again.
     
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  8. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    If I was to review the route after finishing Chapter 1 of Clinchfield Journey, I would definitely say the route has some fixing to do. Losing a horn on SD40 after two blows is not ok (although some might say losing THIS horn is fine :D). But from what I experienced, the locos and trains behave as they should, the route is nice, the gameplay is varied and the content is not bad at all (you could consider SD40 and 3-bay hopper remakes, that still leaves you with "one and a half" locos, three freight cars and a caboose, certainly above average). Nothing completely game-breaking (no trains in the river after correct brake use). So let's do what we do the best - bash them with feedback and bugs and we will probably be able to push it from 7/10 to 9/10. And then we can consider pushing for switchers.
     
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  9. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Back to the topic. The scenery is lame and full of holes in every DLC. CRR is no exception. However, in non-lame places, it shines. Quality control probably knows its stuff and reports everything politely, but there is not always time or resources to improve the quality of the product. I don't like it either. It does not change the fact, it is getting better and in the case of CRR much better. This is not even a panegyric about DTG. Every railway fan should consider this purchase because there are a lot of trains on the trains. For me, it may be a sentiment - in my area, they bring coal once a week. Single-track. Small yard. Sometimes I observe it all from a few meters. CRR is very tangible. I guarantee. The rest - a matter of taste, forbearance or lack of it. I understand it all.
    EPIC
     
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  10. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    [QUOTE = "jörgen Näslund, message: 289223, membre: 292"] zawal.belili
    Il a dit avant d'avoir acheté toutes les routes que la queue d'aronde avait faites. Il a acheté Arosa
    Très insatisfait, queue d'aronde a dû supprimer son message. Maintenant, il a été caché afin que vous ne puissiez pas voir l'histoire sur lui.
    Très sûr qu'il achètera à nouveau l'itinéraire suivant pour pouvoir se plaindre à nouveau. [/ QUOTE]

    Ecoute, je vais te répondre en français tu fera comme moi utiliser google.

    J'ai dit que l'arosa était une bonne route, j'ai même défendu Rivet, les montagnes sont moche tout le monde est d'accore.
    Ne me fait pas dire ce que je n'ai jamais dit.
    D'ailleurs je n'est jamais dit que la Clinchfield était mauvaise, mais j'ai dit qu'elle était bâclé comme toutes les routes de DTG depuis TS 2009.

    Je remarque aussi que temps qu'on défend DTG tout va bien mais que si vous commencez à dire ce qui ne va pas sur vous enfoncez jusqu'à vous faire disparaitre.

    Maintenant mon petit bonhomme, c'est très mal me connaitre de dire que je vais acheter le prochain DLC.
    J'ai arrêté TS d'un coup par lassitude des nombreux bug, je ferai de même pour TSW le moment venu.

    Ce n'est pas un débat contre moi qu'il faut mener, mais contre un travail bâclé.

    Il ya ici des gens qui pensent connaitre la vie des autres comme si c'était des copains d'enfance, vous vous mettez le doigt dans l'oeil.

    Idem pour le personnel de DTG, ce ne sont pas vos amis.

    Je termine par dire que c'est une des rares fois ou je ne suis pas satisfait d'un DLC, je ne sais pas quel mouche vous à piquer pour m'attaquer comme ça.

    J'ai toujours défendu le jeu, mais la au bout de 4 ans ça devient inadmissible
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2021
  11. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    I would say the scenery as a whole has made quite a nice step forward here, that's for sure. If they ignore the weird route by the crossing... that's not great. If they ignore a completely unpopulated tile and a gap in mountains, that's bad. But for once I hope this is among the things they WILL fix. The latter two are not "creative decisions", those are definitely mistakes.
     
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  12. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Most of the issues stem not from the route itself, but the ongoing core problems the game as a whole has. I just commented about the save game (failure) ruining the chained timetable idea in another thread and there are other factors such as night time lighting (lack of it) sound deficiencies etc. Clinchfield is a great experience and one of the best to date, but DTG do need to get to grips with the game engine.
     
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  13. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    ^This.

    DTG have improved their product. Clinchfield is IMO their best route to date. Is it perfect? No. But what sort of mentality expects DTG to overcome all of their issues in one go and suddenly pull a perfect DLC out of a hat?

    I enjoy this route immensely, and I'm not one to let a patch of grass ruin it for me.

    (Incidentally, Zalil, that's not grass. It's leaf mould with something like bugleweed or pachysandra)
     
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  14. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    But this location is not the only instance of roads not looking good. there are a couple instances on the Nora Spur alone that have stood out to me.
     
  15. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    At first I thought you were being sarcastic...
     
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  16. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    It is almost parodic.
     
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  17. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    It is not necessary to contribute to defending a society which does not care about you.

    There is no point in harassing you against me, it is also where we see that you no longer have any valid argument to defend an unfinished product.
    PS: remember to put "likes" ..
    Yes there is no red thumb here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2021
  18. DTG JD

    DTG JD Staff Member

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    Thank you for the feedback - we'll let the team know when we're back in the office on Monday.

    As a side note, there has been a lot of mudslinging in this thread, and if it continues, we will lock it. Everyone is entitled to their thoughts on TSW2, so long as there are no personal insults thrown around.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2021
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  19. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Do we have to play without grass until Monday ?! No kidding ... shame
     
  20. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Yes.
     
  21. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Probably the best description for CRR‘s scenery. Of course, CRR is not perfect. Thus far, I have been very positive about CRR and have barely mentioned any downsides. But that is the case, because CRR truly is an outstanding DLC.

    I too have noticed some spots along the route where the scenery could be more detailed. I don‘t even really pay any attention to level crossings anymore because this is a common issue for all routes. But for ~80% of the route - in my humble opinion - the scenery is outstanding and shows how much DTG‘s art team has evolved and learned.

    Let‘s keep this discussion civil. For some the issues that do exist are more important than they are for others. I do think that it‘s unfair to disregard all the good new things CRR brings to the table because of these issues though.
     
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  22. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    " Today
    1. This Is Truly Aweful Design Where Is Quality Control? was deleted. Reason: Removed for completely inappropriate language, please update yourself with the forum rules or next time you will be temporarily removed from the forums.[/paste:font]
      9:20 PM "

    So when it bothers you let it know in MP.
    .
    Well I think my post was not far from the truth.
    you cannot ignore the dissatisfaction of your customers forever.
    Deleting messages and banning us from the forum will only increase our discontent.

    This has been going on for a while now, the indulgence of some of which I am part for quite a long time.
    When I pay for a finished product, it is precisely so that it is finished and not halfway correctly.

    Each DLC is the same story, bugs are often the same and an unfinished product.

    The last faith was for barriers, the next faith for mountains and brakes, this faith again etc etc ...

    Put as much courage in the work of the quality before the sale of your next DLC as much as you put her to answer me.

    Thank you.


    PS: it is not necessary to delete the messages, we are all adults here.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 10, 2021
  23. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    All people at a screening of Harry Potter may be adults, but that doesn't mean it would be fine for it to be filled with swearing.
    Forum rules explicitly state this forum is designed for all ages, therefore swearing would, quite obviously, be not allowed. I don't know in what world removing a swear word equates to ignoring feedback but I don't really want to go there.
     
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  24. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Yes there adults in the forums but for some reason some of the adults tend to act like spoiled 2yr olds. It seems this needs to be pointed over and over again, to provide constructive feed back and people will listen. When you start to ignore the forum rules things will happen and posts can be deleted or altered to remove comments that should no be there.

    We also have to remember that some in the forums are younger so we need to set a example for others.
     
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  25. appledates#4945

    appledates#4945 Well-Known Member

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    I’d say good job DTG. If that’s one of the bigger issues then they did a great job with this route. I’d love to know how much testing was needed for this route compared to others, as so far other then the tutorial issue, I have had a great experience, I also didn’t notice this while driving past in the cab, I could have been paying more attention to the train and other bits of scenery!
     
  26. krustynuggets

    krustynuggets Well-Known Member

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    Can we get a nappy/diaper change in the PC forum please, we have a adult toddler on the loose and they ain't to happy and throwing a massive tantrum...........
     
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  27. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    This is the type of immaturity the rules are in place to prevent. Obviously this individual is upset and has lost any capability for carrying on socially acceptable conversation since all that I said was that I hoped he could find some past time he would enjoy after he stated he was leaving TSW2. Sad really.
     
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  28. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    He probably didn't drink his coffee. Hope he calms down and comes back.
     
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  29. Schnauzahpowahz

    Schnauzahpowahz Well-Known Member

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    Sure there are some issues with CRR, but as a whole - its good start imo, hoping for touch ups none the less.

    The road crossing thing looks weird... ok

    You guys *did* see the LGV route... right? The scenery apart from Marseille resembles what id imagine a chimpanzee crafted with play-doh. I dont remember an uproar over that...

    Sure you weren't meant to really notice it w motion blur and traveling at mach 2... but its still terrible. Worse than Arosa


    My biggest issue w CRR currently are the swaths of land without grass etc. The lack of 3d bits covering the ground texture
    Its blatantly obvious on the northern part of the mainline and most of the Fremont Branch (the big one, top left of map)

    These things happen, yeah it sucks. Sometimes more noticeable on diff routes

    Nothing to get bent out of shape over. Theres more to life than train sims.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
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  30. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest


    I have already moved on and you would do the same. You're just adding a bad mood here.
     
  31. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    So everybody who does not agree with you adding bad mood.
    There is a group here that can only write negatively, who can not see anything positive at all (yet they buy route by route)
    Normally they can write that, I do not care.
    Now I felt and several others now I have to say to what I think.
    And there are people here who can not stand this that someone writes positively.
    I can not understand that you have not already left the train simulator hobby. Seems to be an incredible problem for some.
     
  32. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    I think you got the wrong person, I always defended the DLC.
    Even the Arosa which is not very good.

    This is the first time I plague a DLC.

    But I have to say yes, it seems that when you are unhappy you are harassed to death by people like you.

    You do not want to spoil certain things ok it is your promblem but do not come and tell me that I am denigrating everything it is totally necessary.
    This is called libel.
     
  33. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

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    This is literally one of the best looking routes in the game and you're all arguing about a tiny piece of a weirdly placed road? Alright then...
     
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  34. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I take the relative silence on the forums as positive feedback that users are instead spending time enjoying the route. As with most software development, "no news is good news." By comparison, I can remember the countless negative threads after and even up to the SEHS launch....

    Cheers
     
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  35. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    With regards to editing posts to remove swearing, it does not seem to affect where the offending posts have been quoted, for example in post 77 above. It doesn’t bother me personally but some people may be offended by this.
     
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  36. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Goes back to the idea Matt said a while back - the forums and discord are always rather negative because most people who like the game/dlc are sitting there silently enjoying it whereas the people who don't are on the forums complaining. You're generally more likely to tell a company/person if you think they're doing something wrong than if you think they're doing something right.
     
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  37. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    There is a lot of truth in this statement. We are all like that. if we are satisfied, we sit quietly. Which is clearly the majority
     
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  38. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    No, I am not having a bad mood. But you sure did yesterday... I hope things look better for you today.
     
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  39. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

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    Thank goodness you do not work for me with that work ethic.
     
  40. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    I do work with quality in my work. signaling technology railway. Our customers usually pay 100,000 or millions of dollars
    for our product. Not 30 dollar.(I know we are a bunch of people paying this)
    Then they can expect as far as a 100% product it goes. And it is real thing I do, not game/simulator
    But it costs.

    Had you paid $ 60 to go through all the things on this route. Maybe you had done this but the majority do not.
    The alternative would have been that it was only half as long (or 10% long).

    I can say to almost 100% you had not seen this. It takes 2 hours to drive from one end to the other end.
    Now someone has taken a pair of binoculars and put it on a point and shown you this.
    But you seem to know exactly where this is so you can point out the point then on a map.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2021
  41. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    The headline was quality control. Okay then we should try to make one so that it is 100%

    Just the graphics

    1: 64 miles (103 kilometres) You must walking throughout the area and check every tree, building bridges roads track switch heights mountains. And FPS "is working" on PC consoles. Everything. (comparing to photographs maps and so on)
    We say 6 hour day (Inspecting is tiring) I say it take two weeks (could be 4 weeks) to inspect the whole railway section.
    But it's easy to become home blind. So more people have to do this. so we say one more. (could be 2 more)
    So only this is inspecting is at least 160 hours. 160*100 dollar=16000 dollar.
    Then the errors found should be fixed and inspected again= x0000 dollar

    Then we have trains
    2: Inspect graphics so it agrees with what the locomotive and wagons looked like in 1975
    3: That buttons work on the locomotive and that the right thing happens.
    4: That you test all the combinations that people can make (wrong order) this is very difficult
    5: That the physics is correct that the wagons brake and roll as they should. correct slopes and weights and force wagons locomotive.
    6: Test all scenarios and timetable. Especially scenarios. Even here when people don't do which was meant.
    7: Test this (3--6,8) on PC and in two consoles types.
    8: Check Dpu engines working. Those located directly behind the locomotive and also those located in the rear of the train
    9: To keep in mind that people have different monitors different cpu types etc
    10: Here I have probably forgotten something.

    Have no idea what time it may take to inspect all this but it must be a lot of time. I say 400 hours.
    Have probably forgotten many things.
    But if you do not spend 50,000-100,000 dollars on just quality control, it will not be 100% just 99.99.
     
  42. maxtedrw

    maxtedrw Member

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  43. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    I don't get your point, jörgen? First of all, the badly placed road segment is a pretty obvious and noticeable problem, not something that requires intense searching. Just drive past it once and you see it, and let's be honest, they should drive through every single line at least once before release. And both the ugly road segment and the missing grass is pretty noticeable.

    As for size, making sure everything is on the right place on a 100km map is not that much of an impossible task. For comparison, GTA V has a 80 square kilometer big map, and it looks good. Sure even they have a few floating and badly placed assets there and there (for example there are several badly placed railroad buffers around the docks that are obviously palced there by accident), but they also modell every single street and alley and there are 100 times more objects than in TSW, for example. Of course I'm not going to compare the work of Rockstar to DTG, it just wouldn't be fair. But the point is, making sure a map si built right is not that impossible of a task when you build the map in the first place. I mean just place the objects correctly to begin with.

    Also whether objects are floating or not are not going to have an impact on FPS.

    Noone is saying the route should be a 100% accurate recreationg of the real world bush by bush.. But this road definitely shouldn't look like this, neither should the grass be missing on a complete tile. Hopefully both of these will be fixed. And just because a route is exceptionally good doesn't mean we shouldn't bring up issues we find.
     
  44. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I haven't got this route, yet, but if that is the worse thing you can find to complain about then it doesn't seem bad at all especially considering most of the screenshots I have seen seem very good, so this seems very minor. When I read the thread title I was expecting to see something truly horrifying! I think SEHS had more problems like a very obvious fence missing.
     
  45. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I'm a bit puzzled as to why you're comparing to GTA V's map, given unlike Clinchfield, Los Santos is a fictional city based on LA, not a 1:1 recreation.
     
  46. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    That doesn't really change anything about floating or badly placed assets, or missing grass though?

    It is one of their most beautifully made routes, I don't think anyone questions that. But it's still valid to bring up issues like these when they are found. After all, if even these get fixed, then it sure will be even more close to a perfect route.
     
  47. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Oh I agree it should be raised. It was the manner in which it was raised, it was a little over the top as there has been a lot worse than that in the past.
     
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  48. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I agree. I agree that it does not look so nice in that crossing, but It was the manner in which it was raised.
    Truly Aweful Design Where Is Quality Control

    Wrong in Clinch field route had I called it
    .
    Picture is good. But dovetail must know where it is. How should they be able to fix this without having more help.
    It must be 30-50 crossing in this route. They really want a ticket on all the wrongs we found.
     

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