This Is Why The Community Is Upset

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by londonmidland, Oct 6, 2020.

  1. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    4,195
    Likes Received:
    4,854
    TSW2020 is a prime example of dtg not bothering to fix bugs. I think Paul Jackson who is the CEO of dtg needs to be fired and replaced because it's clear that he puts profit over quality. He doesn't care about his customers. He is telling his development team to rush products instead of allowing them the time they need to make sure they work properly with few bugs and if they are bugs to have them fixed. I mean hell he used to work work EA so I guess it's not a suprise that Dovetail Games is a mess. DTG needs a change in leadership and I think Matt Peddeliston would be a good leader of dtg and would fix many problems in the company. His passion in train simulation and in the game in general would make him a great leader and I believe he would make immediate improvements and changes to tsw2 if he was in charge.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  2. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2019
    Messages:
    2,003
    Likes Received:
    3,291
    In order to (mostly) prevent these bugs, DTG needs to take their time making these routes. They need to stop rushing it out (impossible if the higher-ups want them to rush these DLC's). I know they have people working there that love trains and really want to create more and more routes, they need to show that though. The only way for the community to start enjoying TSW more/again is either DTG stepping the game up, giving mod support, or letting third-party devs make more routes.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  3. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2019
    Messages:
    2,003
    Likes Received:
    3,291
    MATT? You really think Matt would be a good leader? Yeah, I agree with you. If this does happen, hopefully, they'll get more employees.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  4. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    4,195
    Likes Received:
    4,854
    I think matt would do a great job as he is the most passoinate one at dtg. Hey it'll be much better than Paul Jackson
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2019
    Messages:
    2,003
    Likes Received:
    3,291
    He definitely WOULD do better than anyone that came from EA. And I'm sure he'll start improving the company right away. But what's the odds of this actually happening? We can't do anything about this.
     
  6. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    4,195
    Likes Received:
    4,854
    I only wish that was the case :(
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. wargame99

    wargame99 New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2019
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    10
    Does that mean that their reputation is actually improving?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    4,195
    Likes Received:
    4,854
    I think their reputation is getting much worse
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2020
    Messages:
    264
    Likes Received:
    665
    depends - PC community = its in the gutter, Console community its probably pretty good.
     
  10. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2020
    Messages:
    881
    Likes Received:
    1,424
    Ironic really when you think that the console games are all programmed and developed on PC's.
     
  11. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2020
    Messages:
    264
    Likes Received:
    665
    The Console community seem pretty happy - power to them I guess, while PC sentiment, unless youre named Anthony, seems to be "can a competitor come soon please so we can ditch DTG ASAP"
     
    • Like Like x 3
  12. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    2,095
    Wait, is this true? A former EA dude is their CEO? Damn, that pretty much explains everything, lol...
     
    • Like Like x 4
  13. ehrenholt

    ehrenholt Active Member

    Joined:
    May 6, 2020
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    165
    as a console person, I agree, DTG need to get thier act together
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    4,195
    Likes Received:
    4,854
    I play both on console and pc and I think on both platforms it's a bit of a mess
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    2,872
    Likes Received:
    5,149
    I can't believe that people are now arguing over the supremacy of one box of electronic trickery which allows you to play games against another!
     
  16. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    2,872
    Likes Received:
    5,149
    Are you speaking for the whole community here?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,241
    Likes Received:
    3,892
    One person cannot speak for the whole community!
     
    • Like Like x 6
  18. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,823
    Likes Received:
    3,332
    Oh, but how they try, how they try.:love:
     
    • Like Like x 7
  19. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,823
    Likes Received:
    3,332
    Are we really going to tolerate personal attacks on the forum?
     
    • Like Like x 3
  20. Easilyconfused

    Easilyconfused Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    267
    I would hope not. Posts have been reported by myself earlier.

    Reading the thread from the beginning a few thoughts spring to mind.

    1. I was never aware there was an election of a community president / spokesman otherwise I would have put forward Moggy as El Presidente.

    2. Steam shows varying numbers of players. I am not aware of a similar dashboard for console users but I have been told directly that console users are an order of magnitude higher than PC players. At the shows I demonstrate TSW at, the focus from the visitors is definitely consoles. They do look at the monster PCs we have running TS20xx and TSW but the price tag on those puts most families off especially when they already have an Xbox or PS4 lurking in the bedroom.

    3. Like MSTS and Railworks before it we see a lot of posts "The Community wants" / "The Community needs" etc. when that is more likely what the poster wants and they are dressing it up to make it sound like they speak for the masses. They don't speak for me since I am more than capable of speaking for myself.

    4. Like UKTS and other forums there are a core of people posting here (likely 4 dozen at the most) who contribute the majority of the posts by a rough and ready perusal of the threads. Some by their own admission have refunded the game but they are still here poking the hornets nest on multiple threads. Taking point 2 into account there are thousands of players not joining in the chorus of complaints maybe because they are actually getting on and enjoying playing the game?

    Clearly there are issues with the game especially with how the Preserved Collection has been handled on consoles. However, making personal attacks on staff even at CEO level is not acceptable. I would love to see some of the people making the comments tell the staff the same thing face to face instead of from behind a keyboard.
     
    • Like Like x 20
  21. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,241
    Likes Received:
    3,892
    Very good points!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  22. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    4,195
    Likes Received:
    4,854
    PC or console it's still Train Sim World 2. Is TSW 2 perfect on both platforms NO. I don't think people should argue that tsw2 is better on pc or console when they're the exact same game. Hell it's much easier to play tsw2 on console because you could just download it and it'll work, well unless you play sand Patch Grade and it crashes when you're about to get to the end of the route.
     
  23. rat7_mobile

    rat7_mobile Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 1, 2020
    Messages:
    438
    Likes Received:
    151
    Just a thought, and mind you I might be wrong, but could it be possible that in order to fix some of the issues with the preserved collection (like the soundfor example), it would require all to be release so the is apply it once only for all, instead of having to apply it one by one,and to do this all the preserve collection must be released
     
  24. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    4,195
    Likes Received:
    4,854
    [/QUOTE]
    I think criticizing the CEO of Dovetail Games is perfectly justifiable because he is the reason why people are complaining with all the problems with preserved collection. HE IS IN CHARGE. He seems to give his development team not enough time to release routes that WORK PROPERLY and even for new tsw routes. He seems to maximize profit over quality and it keeps happening over and over again. With preserved collection they had no pressure to port it to tsw2 properly, but what do they do they mess it up and then they have the nerve to say, "if it's not on the roadmap, it's not being worked on". That's how you treat customers like garbage and I wouldn't have no problem going to Kent to DTGs office and being straight on how I think he's running the company and I wouldn't have many compliments to say to him. I want him to be replaced because it's clear he keeps making the same terrible decisions but hey I guess that's what happens when a person from EA is in charge of a gaming company and I think Matt Peddeliston should be in charge because he would make the company much better and tsw2 would be a better product
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
  25. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,241
    Likes Received:
    3,892
    They don't say "If it's not on the roadmap, it won't be addressed." It's "If it's not on the roadmap, it's not being worked on." Just because something isn't currently on the roadmap, doesn't mean it won't be.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  26. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2020
    Messages:
    1,082
    Likes Received:
    2,782
    Just to reply to this one...

    Perhaps those that have refunded the game, still post here because they want the game to improve to the state they'll rebuy it? Very few people get upset over a game they don't care about.

    I don't think you can blame anyone for not trusting DTG given their track record.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  27. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    2,872
    Likes Received:
    5,149
    If their ego's tell them they can, then they can!
     
  28. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2020
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    976
    I see our comrades-in-arms on PC are having a totally normal one.

    (Sam, or anyone at DTG, please, never merge the forums)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  29. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 5, 2020
    Messages:
    362
    Likes Received:
    354
    Yes, that would make things more transparent and would be beneficial to the overall feeling of the game. If we don't have a comprehensive list of issues and suggestions, than that is like we are pretending that they are non existing. If listed all known bugs and issues and also suggestions for improving things it would show to the community a smidge that you care about stuff.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2020
    Messages:
    525
    Likes Received:
    967
    Quick reminder that the preservation team is 3 people at a 150 person company. It's a low priority process being given absolutely minimal resources. The three people tasked with porting over all this stuff are Adam doing dev, a jack of all trades type of guy handling sound and other random stuff, and a designer/ui person. That's it. DTG leadership has put the bare minimum into this and it shows.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  31. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    4,195
    Likes Received:
    4,854
    No wonder the preserved collection has had so many problems. Did CEO Paul Jackson think that three people working on something that big would work smoothly, they need more people working on perserved collection, not three people. He made a terrible decision
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  32. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    2,872
    Likes Received:
    5,149
    Do you know what the distribution of the other 147 or so are?
     
  33. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2020
    Messages:
    525
    Likes Received:
    967
    I have no way of knowing that. I only know that according to various business profile websites, DTG has circa 150 employees, and I know only 3 are working on the preserved collection because Sam had Adam on the stream last week and he specifically said there are three people and talked about them.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  34. Jinoss17

    Jinoss17 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2020
    Messages:
    361
    Likes Received:
    770
    Three people are never gonna fix all the major bugs of the preserved collection already out. Given that there are plenty of preserved routes and locos still to be released and they will probably have some good flaws too, I think they will be submerged by bug reports.

    And people still don't get why releasing half-baked products is a bad bad strategy ...
     
    • Like Like x 5
  35. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    2,872
    Likes Received:
    5,149
    I know there are three and it might not sound like a lot but the other 147 aren't all going to be working on content directly. That 150 could include cleaners, payroll, admin, accounts, book keeping, office manager and all sorts. It could also include part time workers, apprentices maybe even sub contractors. And, don't forget there isn't just the two train simulators there are their other games too.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  36. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,717
    Likes Received:
    3,038
    You have to take into consideration the employees may be spread out across the 5 games DTG has. Some may overlap between games, but that averages 30 employees for each game. If you include the people that don't work on the games, that number would be lower.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  37. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    2,872
    Likes Received:
    5,149
    Exactly and therefore making assumptions and using those assumptions as a way to have a go at them, I would argue, is disingenuous.
     
  38. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    4,195
    Likes Received:
    4,854
    I think releasing the roadmap every two weeks isn't being transperant when in comes to bug fixes. I think if dtg released it weekly in terms of bug fixes, it would allow more transparency on what is being fixed
     
  39. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2020
    Messages:
    1,082
    Likes Received:
    2,782
    However, as it's frequently been said, if it's not on the roadmap then we should assume it isn't happening. Seems like mixed messages to me...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  40. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    2,872
    Likes Received:
    5,149
    Isn't this just semantics. Not being worked on doesn't mean never happening. Isn't happening can mean just isn't being worked on.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  41. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2020
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    861
    "Not being worked on" basically means "We may or may not know about xyz, but we have other priorities currently." Pessimistically one could say they dont care about xyz, realistically one would say it is just not on priority right now which might change in the future. But given to DTGs track record, I personally would say that hopes on getting xyz on the roadmap is a bad friend since DTG is not known for fixing lots of bugs.

    But that doesnt mean that this couldnt change. It just needs honest effort to improve, in communication and in developing the game itself.
     
  42. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2016
    Messages:
    3,241
    Likes Received:
    3,892
    They are most likely hiring for more.
     
  43. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2018
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    678
    ‘They are most likely hiring for more.‘

    As usual Anthony rather a guess but it’s pretty easy to see whether they’re hiring or not as vacancies are posted on their web site. Some of the postings even state the specific game they are for (e.g. the fishing franchise). Some of the postings are quite interesting, for example the UE4 Engine Programmer role states

    ‘As we approach a critical point between current and next-gen platforms, we are striving to improve performance, develop and optimise engine extensions, and adopt the latest UE4 features.‘

    So from that it would suggest that they’re a) looking at the next generation of consoles b) aware that they could be getting more performance from the engine and c) that there are features available in the engine that they’re aware of but not using.

    When people put delays etc. down to ‘needing to learn the new engine’ this is how commercial companies really deal with the issue. You hunt out existing experts.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  44. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    4,156
    Likes Received:
    10,358
    You do realise that without the CEO you like to name and shame in every post (a strange obsession you seem to have at the moment), there would be no DTG, no TS, no TSW at all. You also have no idea that the exact distribution of available resources was his decision, or that there are only three people working on the preserved collection. That’s what a lot of people are assuming because the team tasked with looking after old content long term currently has three people. They may not be the only ones working on bringing the preserved content into TSW2.
     
    • Like Like x 10
  45. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    2,872
    Likes Received:
    5,149
    It is easy to make assumptions as you don't have to actually provide any proof and some will blindly assume you are right.

    I wonder if Paul Jackson's ears are burning, I bet he has never had his name dropped so often!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  46. Class395

    Class395 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2020
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    209
    I think people are way too dramatic about the bugs. The biggest problem I have experienced was the bugged Talent 2 sets in Dessau which could not move, it was annoying as hell but it's been fixed in 2 days. All the other bugs are just nuances (at least the ones I have experienced):

    - SIFA bugged in RB 425 and 422 sets? Just get up and sit again, takes 2s
    - No sound in the BR 143? I'll just drive with the windows open
    - Horn way to quiet in the M3 and M7 MUs with windows open? I'll just drive with the windows closed I guess
    - Stuck at red signal on PC in a freight service? I'll just drive another one

    I get that these are annoying in a way but it just seems to me as people take this way too personal. I don't want to insult anyone but I just feel like people who rant for hours or days about minor issues honestly have nothing better to do than play or complain about this game. It's just my honest opinion.

    Personally I'm really enjoying TSW2 overall. Granted there are issues which should not be there, but it's not as bad as people make it out to be.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  47. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    4,156
    Likes Received:
    10,358
    This is the way to stay sane while still enjoying driving the trains and I wholeheartedly approve. Having said that I still want those things fixed. The more you drive, the more bugs you encounter so it can get a bit too much after a while. I did at one point try to note down any bugs I came across, big or small, but my pen ran out of ink after a couple of days. Some bugs don’t get fixed after a couple of years, let alone a couple of days, and some are not so little either. It is rather too easy to get dramatic when you start three different scenarios or services in one sitting and none of them can be completed, and I have had that happen, but there is no need to get in such a tizzy when one aspect of the sound isn’t quite right... but it still irks.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  48. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    4,195
    Likes Received:
    4,854
    I think the higher ups at dtg should do a livestream and respond to our complaints alongside the community manager
    Yes i know he is the reason that we have tsw2 in the first place, but as the man in charge clearly is making poor business decisions by rushing things out and not giving the devs enough time to make sure there are no massive bugs and it keeps happening. Hence I want him to step down because of the poor decisions he is making
     
  49. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2020
    Messages:
    1,082
    Likes Received:
    2,782
    Good for you, however people do have the right to be upset. Especially the point above in bold. It's a basic function of the game to be able to be completed.

    I certainly don't rant about the game because I have nothing better to do, I do it because I want the game to be better. If people don't complain, then nothing will ever improve, as they'll be no motivation for DTG or other companies to do so.

    At the end of the day, this is a paid product (and not particularly cheap when you factor in DLC - I've paid £30 for Call of Duty, yet been able to play the same number of hours as TSW), and a certain level of quality is expected.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  50. Class395

    Class395 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2020
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    209
    Good for me indeed. I never said people didn't have the right to be upset, I just said people are taking this way out of proportion but ok i guess
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page