PC Thoughts On Train Sim World As A Franchise

In this form I would like to ask the community to share their thoughts and opinions about Train Sim World as a franchise. I felt like it was too soon to announce TSW-4 since three wasn't a year old yet? The game need improvements to become a great game! Its just confusing because it does not have any annual updates instead of titles every 2 years. TSW is a good game and has a lot of potential. That's just my thought.

Enjoy reading your comments, thank you for sharing.
Have a nice day, Darkwarrior#2896

 

My opinion is fix the bugs then release a new game you know because why should be we pay for updates.

 

It had a solid foundation then veered off into the "pay more for less" model with issues piling up. The only solution provided was to dangle bug fixes on a carrot stick behind a paywall. Anyhow, it held its magic for a while and now it's become a place to have laughs. Could have been great, but greed chose otherwise.

 

1. Why announce TSW-4 when three wasn't a year old yet?
2. Could DTG raise prices on future TSW titles/ content I hope not.
3. Is it worth it continuing TSW if DTG raises prices for locos/ routes?

 

What do you mean by it held its magic and pay more for less.

 

Peaked at the release of TSW2 then started going downhill shortly after that.

 

1. Bizarre
2. If the pool of available players shrinks then yes
3. That's personal preference

 

I would go a bit further and say the Rush Hour release was the peak as it provided 3 nice routes and a game upgrade that performed well (despite the lingering issues with some of that content to this day). But yeah a property in decline since then.

 

I mean that for a time it felt good. Decent quality, performed well, and there was a general good spirited buzz during the live streams. As for pay more for less, increased prices for less content sums it up pretty well.

 

Its a lot of fun and just keeps getting better every year. I am especially happy this year to see some of the potential being realised in TSW4 with new features like Free Roam mode. The release of the editor will also bring about endless opportunities. The future is bright.

 

But if they have messed up the azuma.... well I've already seen the PIS soooo I don't have my hopes to high.

 

Plus I thought to include something remember that fog what they been going on about well they could of added it in even in TSW 2 just look at the red box.
Edit: all it is a tic box nothing special.

 

The biggest problem is that new versions of the game clearly sell considerably more copies than the DLCs sell. There is no other reason why you would sell 3 new routes + 2 new locos for the same price as a single route + loco.

This then creates the problem that you are releasing fixes to both the current game and older versions, which just in terms of paying Sony etc. for every individual patch must add up to a lot of money spent for zero financial return.

Of course when I say zero financial return, anyone with TSW3 who wants NYT will have bought it by now, so the target market for new cash is either new players brought in by TSW4, or existing TSW3 players willing to upgrade to TSW4.

I can pretty much guarantee you they will make more money from people buying TSW4 than they will lose from people disenfranchised by them abandoning TSW2/3 and unless a serious competitor arrives on the scene then we will just have to put up with it. Of course if such a competitor does arrive then DTG's lack of loyalty to it's customers would be repaid in equal measure.

 

Rush Hour felt like the start of all the problems IMO, promising these big yearly releases but end up having issues due to time constraints. Rush Hour was lucky it was still for TSW2, but then we got TSW3, and now TSW4....

 

I love the game.

end of thoughts

 

Critical.

They have not brought the game engine forwards for many years now. Trees morphing is a joke, as is frequent stuttering even on high end machines. Fixes are very rare and We're looking into it means nothing else than keeping us quiet. Patches are breaking more than they fix. As a farewell to TSW3, they made the GWE HST unusable in rain with their last update. Buffer derailments caused by the Class 31 pack still not addressed. Mark2 coaches - can't sit down since TSW3. NYT Pantographs, non functional EOTs / rear brake pipe pressure readouts on US locos etc. The list goes on and on.

They're avoiding everything that would cost them money and are trying to maximize the profit. Probably much less development takes place in Chatham than in cheap 2nd party contractors' offices around the globe.

Matt fixes what he can in his spare time for us. Apparently the only real railfan left at DTG. Thank you Matt.

The new features are not that impressive - for example the freeroam feature was already usable on PC using GodMode, they've just built a UI for it now. Volumetric Fog, as was said before, is just a simple checkbox in the UE editor. Cost them a few minutes plus recooking.

Still no adjustable cabview. That's a shame. Let us see through the wiper field in rain. BRO 110. At least TSG fixed the position in their 363.

Routes are coming with only one loco only. All in all we get lesser and lesser with every version of TSW at higher cost. Been playing it since 2016's CSX:HH Beta. The game is still the same, but the UI looks worse with every iteration.

I doubt TSW will ever be able to catch up with TSC in terms of content variety and creative freedom. At least not at the pace development is going. Seven years now - and basically only the sky has changed. Light Rain is 200% overexposed and looks comical.

The locos are mostly beautiful (with exceptions, just turn your head to the left and see the huge pixels around the window on MML's HST. Glad I refunded that. You don't put textures like these into a UE4 game, Skyhook!)

My prediction is they'll come to a point where they have to drop TSW and develop a completely new game (it was their first own development, learning as they're going - TSC was bought from Kuju who did MSTS before, while DTG/RailSimulator.com was still an Addon developer named RSDL.)

Old content will then become obsolete, and if you were here when TSW2 came, you'll know they initially wanted to drop TWS2020 content but due to protests the Preservation Crew was formed.

To get a better oversight, just jump to the last page and the very first post in this subforum and start reading from there on, you'll get the picture.

darkwarrior#2896 The thread is tagged for Xbox, but I thought it's a general discussion so please don't mind a PC player posting here

For everyone who thinks I am complaining, no. I am analyzing. And I still enjoy the game overall - but it could be so much better after seven years now.

As for the franchise - I think it's about constantly needing to attract new players, loyalty is not really important to them, as these loyal customers will see through the business methods sooner or later. Look how many people that were regulars on the forum have left over the time...

 

I enjoy the game and driving the trains.

The only train sim I have come across that meets my desires, despite the bugs I come across.

 

• Besides, everyone is welcome to share their thoughts in this form.
• I wonder how many people left the forms.

 

I wonder if there's even a future for train sim world if DTG keep breaking the game?

 

If it works for EA and 2K, why would it not work for DTG?
I'm looking forward to the new scoring system and the inevitable forum thread titled:
Services where Platinum medal cannot be achieved

 

Post of the day for Me. DTG should print it off, frame it and hang it on the wall of their office with the caption "This is what we need to change. Our mission statement must fix this".

 

For me it comes down to this, which sums up TSW in the simplest terms;

What TSW4 didn’t bring;

- Performance improvements and new core game features (DX12, FSR, DLSS, direct input support etc)

What TSW4 will bring;

- A way to take fancy screenshots (which conveniently gives you a way to blur out the poor distant scenery in the background of a shot)

As I said, a simple generalisation but it demonstrates perfectly where the priorities lie.

 

I’m a very much on the fence guy when it comes to TSW.

As I’ve remarked in other threads, despite having just about every train sim in existence installed including TSC, Run 8 and the dark horse of SimRail, I find myself firing up TSW pretty much every time.

Of course there are problems, in some cases big problems both in terms of how the franchise is managed and the content produced for it. Not going into an exhaustive list as you all know my particular hobbyhorses.

I do think TSW4 could be the turning point for the sim. If the editors prove reasonably workable then I can see a surge in additional content being produced which might very well tip the balance in favour of TSW. If the editor proves unwieldy, too hard or simply won’t run on the hardware and people start drifting back to TSC, Trainz or DRS (if it gets a terrain importer) then we are back to the routes and trains DTG and their associates want to give us.

As regards the rest, well they should definitely look at reforming the Preservation Crew, it is not fair that Matt has to work in his spare time on fixes. That’s supposed to be the coders’ job. Or maybe the operation is top heavy with admin and marketing people, the actual coal face with route builders, 3D artists and train builders are low in number. And the audio department definitely needs an overhaul.

 

Personally I think the editor could be a wolf in sheep’s clothing. Whilst it’s amazing we have it and I look forward to the good stuff people create, I worry that TSW is going to end up like TSC, with stuff scattered all over the internet varying wildly in quality.

One of the things that TSW had going for it was that it was self-contained. I think the creators club showed big warning signs as to the potential negatives of community created content, where stuff was put up with zero quality control. It’s hard to find things and many scenarios have requirements they don’t list. Many of the descriptions (if people even bother with them) etc are barely literate or written in text speak. I’d also say, and I apologise to the people who don’t fit this description, but there are a lot of usernames of people who have never put out a mod for the game to this point claiming they’re going to build XYZ loco or build the whole of the East Coast of the US or something. That isn’t going to end well.

In a nutshell I worry it’s going to get messy. The way DTG have built the game (various different versions of the same loco) is just asking for this to be a complete car crash. Fundamentally DTG have ceded ultimate control of the product which I applaud them for, and on balance I think it’s a good thing, but there really needs to be some degree of quality control either from DTG or from the Community. Without it we’re going to be back to the days of trying to run something and spending half an hour trawling the net searching for, then installing, some obscure reskin.

I really hope I’m wrong about this but if history teaches us anything….

 

End of the day, it's a game, and for the vast, silent, majority an enjoyable one.

Unfortunately that's just the economics of the current era.
People need to get paid and the lights need to be on. I doubt it was done purely on greed

See, I have an issue with this.
SOME routes only have one train. Some reuse existing, and then there are quite a few that have two.

Why should we EXPECT two new trains every time?
Sometimes/ some routes may not even have two trains that run on it?

My local route for example, if it got added, only has one train that ever runs on it. Always had, always will. So if that got added, would it be right to complain?

Are we then excluding any new routes using trains we already have too?
Because of the 'uproar' of Glossop reusing a train. Because, if we demand new traction each time, that'll severely limits some of the categories.

Don't forget that technically, the BPO route *technically* only has one new loco

 

Very skeptical when it comes to TSW4. We´ll see ...

And looking at the bright side of things: If DTG stays away from patches and fixes for TSW2 & 3, it´s one more reason to keep these versions as nothing will be broken anymore and they´ll stays as is. Their credibility is gone anyway down the drain. Of course, MML for the consoles still MUST be fixed, but what mayhem these fixes will cause this time ... I fear the worst.

 

My honest opinion? TSW hasn’t hit its peak yet.
The game could still very much peak higher than TSW2, if dovetail are willing to take more risks for the game instead of this playing safe mindset. TSW could be so much better if DTG simply didn’t focus on dlc for 6 months, and just bought an absolute giant overhaul to the game. Bug fixes, Optimisation improvements, etc. no new game, no new dlc, just straight bug fixes. Also TSW in the future will hit a higher peak than TSW2 did because of the editor and content creation. Assuming DTG start making more community requested routes, like say WCML or SWR, the game will inevitably peak, also say there’s a lockdown again player numbers will rise. Also for DTG to inevitably increase playerbase they need to stop the flywheel of drip feeding content, releasing it in a buggy state, providing very minimal bug fixes and then abandoning the content. As for Matt, there’s no reason why he should be fixing bugs, as he’s the head guy, there should be a team on it as well as ‘Matt. Matt is a great guy, love his enthusiasm towards the franchise, but he’s the executive producer. Bugs shouldn’t be left for so long that the executive producer is fixing them 3 years on. Anyways for TSW4 as a whole, DTG should use the game as a stopping point for the next 2-3 years. No TSW5 until TSW4 is in pristine condition. Fix bugs, offer improvements, listen to the community and the game will grow on its current potential.

 

As it seemingly isn't cost effective for them to build two brand new locos per route what I would like to see instead is more loco packs. For example, I'm hoping the Vectron will at least result in new German routes having an extra freight loco from now on, albeit likely only available to those who own the Vectron DLC.

The UK desperately needs something similar, yes the Class 66 is seen pretty much everywhere but I'm sure a lot of people would jump at the chance to purchase an electric freight loco, especially if it means it could substitute for the Class 66 on all future modern electric routes.

Alternatively I would be very happy for them to reuse a passenger EMU on a new route if that route also introduced a new freight loco.

As for BPO, they thankfully have grasped the concept that empty stations aren't that much fun and have packed Preston with AI trains that don't go where we're going but the very fact they are there will make it much more enjoyable.

 

DTG need to start making more loco packs if they will only give on train routes.

 

i don't think anyone is making the argument to exclude routes for reusing trains. I think the whole complaint about Glossop was more than just 'reused train'. but when ECML, a highly requested core route for this new version of tsw is both cut at Doncaster rather than the full section to York + only includes a class 801 with an overused class 66 (not even a reskin for GBrf or Freightliner). then its a bit of a shame. the same could probably be said about lack of Austrian intercity stock on the Austrian route (and if you were only going to include the Talent 1, atleast make sure it had good sounds).

 

As a franchise, if a competitor came along offering similar but with better quality (stuttering and flickering removed etc,) then I think it would be in trouble.

As a consumer, I hope that happens.

As someone who holds the enthusiasm that people like Matt and JD show here in high regard, I hope it doesn't or they get jobs with said competitor.. if that should transpire. Might be worth keeping one eye on the back door there..

 

I don’t really understand the comparison with EA and the FIFA franchise.

Yes there are those that buy the game every year but each title is stand alone and can be bought every few years to benefit from new team rosters, features and technology advances.

comparing it to FIFA is like saying “FIFA 24” (I know they e dropped the name)
You get the Saudi leagues, English National Leagues and the six tiers of the Norwegian leagues with new stadiums, new replays and cups etc with these new added teams.
You’ll still need FIFA 23, 22, 21, 20 and 19 to be able to play the other leagues that came with them.

if you don’t buy FIFA 24 you will lose support for your collection so far.

 

I have a feeling though, its more down to the licencing of other freight operators, as we haven't actually seen any Freightliner or Colas units.
Unless DB/EWS have more locos to hand

No, true, but given the absolute "disgust" towards the reuse of the 323 when it was announced, it was almost like people were demanding such.
Worst bit was, Glossop turned into a fantastic little route!

 

I share most of your concerns. I only have a potato Laptop, so no TSC for me, but I did dabble quite a bit in MSTS/OR and getting any user-generated content for OR was ... interesting ... to say the least. Of course, that's a different beast - an old, somewhat obscure open-source train sim. But still.

I'm also worried about what the future will hold for consoles. Let me preface this: No, this is not me throwing my toys out of the box because why do PC players get a toy I don't?. This might just be paranoia but here's where my mind wanders: What if, once the tools are established and well used, the talented people of this community create a really high-quality model of a route or loco. Would that not mean that DTG are less inclined to produce the same route/loco themselves because 33% of the target audience already has access to a (maybe even better quality) version for free? In that way, we might end up losing some opportunities for good stuff on consoles because it's not as attractive for DTG (or 3rd party studios) to produce anymore.
Anyways, that's just me rambling. Maybe I'm just paranoid and overthinking this, but it's a concern that came up for me. Who knows, maybe we'll even get sharing across to consoles, but even if DTG try, my experiences with modding Bethesda games on PlayStation show me that Sony really does not like playing ball with ideas like that.

 

it could of been alot better, and there a massive missed opportunity for it to be. whether its small problems such as missing rose hill services which would of needed a reskin class 150. or even bigger: if a route has an interesting history (like glossop) why dont they set it during that period? glossop line in modern day with the 323 may be nice, but even a short section of the woodhead line would of been so much better with trains like the class 76 & 77 with the shorter services on the 506. another great idea on the Glossop line feedback thread was the idea of a small manchester network with multiple small lines & services rather than just the class 323 running hadfield via glossop services.

 

It is inevitable that sooner or later you’re going to see routes and locos that are significantly more detailed and demanding than anything DTG have produced. It’s just the way of the world, partly down to differing commercial pressures and partly down to differing attitudes towards what is classed as ‘detailed’ and what isn’t. When you compare most DTG content for TSC against most third party stuff the difference is night and day.

 

That is my worry. I largely gave up grabbing freeware routes for TSC due to the wild goose chase all over the internet for dependencies. I have seen threads in the TSC section where people have (rightly) cribbed at having to pay to subscribe to ATS just so they can get a route that drops a few assets into the freeware one.

Apart from places like Nexus where is going to hold these probably quite large files? UKTS has gone, Trainsim dot com is plagued by advertising and not a particularly DTG or TSW friendly place. The ideal solution would have been something like the N3V Download Station (DLS) for Trainz run by DTG themselves but then probably needing a small subscription to grab the files at any sort of reasonable D/L speed. I’m keen to have a go in the editor but fear ultimately it will be above my pay grade or the capability of my laptop to run it. (And I can’t even get the wife to agree purchase of a new PC, let alone that and a new lappy).

 

Brilliant!

 

It’s not more detail that I was aiming at. I was talking more about a situation like this: The V90s are ubiquotous on German rail. What if someone makes a really good V90 themselves and for that reason DTG decide against ever doing one themselves (as PC players might not be interested at all). So no V90 on console.

As I said, I don’t know how likely such a scenario is. Time will tell.

 

Just adding, somehow the building textures looked better in 2008's (or so) Hagen-Siegen for Kuju RailSimulator. (Which is of course my humble opinion.)

Anyone recognize the "Gasthäuser" billboard? Still alive

 

My view is that TSW has huge potential, but DTG is not investing enough time and money into it and seemingly don’t have a long-term vision of where they are going. If they do have a long-term vision, I’d love them to share it.

I really despise the fact that so many things are omitted because of self-imposed time restraints or because they’re too focused on churning out DLC after DLC. I also despise the fact that they have a ‘that’ll do attitude’ to stuff as well as the fact that bugs and issues take forever to fix, if they’re ever fixed at all.

 

I’m looking forward to TSW4. TSW is still my third most played game. (After TSC and Forza Horizon) so I still very much enjoy it despite the issues.

For me I don’t expect total realism in a game (and I don’t see it as a simulator as I’m pretty sure I couldn’t get into an ICE and make it go) but TSW3 has not been good for me I didn’t really spend much time in any of the routes released in the last 12 months except Niddertalbahn and MML (but only with mods - it was awful without them).

For me the future lies in the 3rd parties as DTG’s own releases have been pretty lacklustre. Currently out of the 3 (TSG, Rivet and Skyhook). I won’t buy from the last 2 due to there failure to support their products in a reasonable time. That just leaves TSG and I’m pretty optimistic about Just Trains. If 3rd parties can produce something really good then it has to be good for the franchise.

The release of the editor could be the thing that saves TSW in my opinion. I have no doubt that it’s going to be a long time before we see anything come from that as it looks extremely complex, but we’ve see the difference modders can make. I have no doubts that over time good things will come from it.

I think the problem TSW has is the lack of community involvement that TSC has where you can download hundreds of new scenarios and freeware stuff and anyone with a bit of patience can produce something. If DTG can get what’s produced with the editor out to people then I can see a better future.

To be positive for a second. I do like the Free Roam feature and the enhancements to the scenario planner (I hope that is just the start). I also find the bundle good value for what I want from the game.

For me TSW going forward has to do better. I still think it has loads of unrealised potential.

Strangely, The one thing that annoyed me most wasn’t anything to do with Trains, but the Pringles campaign. Seeing these unrealistic bright Red vending machines everywhere really got on my nerves.

 

JT with their Blackpool route seems to have done an ace job. That said, Rivet’s first IoW route looked very promising until we got our mitts on it. I hope it’s not the same experience here.

 

That’s what gives me the most hope. Their recent TSC releases have been very good and their communication has been excellent.

For me it’s that route that will sell TSW4 more than anything in the TSW4 package itself. Though I’m really happy to see the Vectron.

 

I don't think the route will be an issue. But I do have a concern (not really a doubt) about the Class 142 sound set. They have given some assurances in the dedicated thread but so much lately has been released and continues to be released (TSW4 Azuma and Austrian EMU) with inaccurate or poor quality audio I'm being a Doubting Thomas on this one.

 

I personally don't have an issue with tsw because there really is no other train sim out there that fits my needs. Other simulators are way too hardcore for me which takes away from the experience. Simrail doesn't interest me because it focuses on multiplayer. Derail valley isn't my type of gameplay. Tsc is frustrating sometimes if you want to create scenarios and it's not beginner friendly. Zusi is too hardcore.

As long as it doesn't turn into a monthly subscription or a season pass, I'm fine paying for tsw. I don't mind paying for a cheap bundle of routes each year whether it's a brand new title or a free update like rush hour. Then the rest of the dlc is a choice of picking what you want. You aren't forced to buy all content.

 

I think it has way more potential than it currently shows...
There are many inconsistencies in the quality of rolling stock etc. You can have one and the same loco model and it came with route A where everything works perfect with it and then the newer version with route B came along and suddenly theres a super obvious bug which route A's version didnt have.
A nice solution could have been to have a "base model" loco, which will always be updated with newer routes' newest versions, and each route just kinda gets an overlaid "skin" for the route.

Besides that, there's much unused potential in the realism department I think. Imagine if all signalling was working prototypical, together with the safety systems (PZB) working accordingly to that. Imagine the sound being more realistic and actually getting the feeling of driving heavy machinery.
Instead we get new routes (which bring nice new content of course) but then those routes have the most obvious and inconsistent super small bugs which could easily be fixed (or never happened in the first place as its an item that was always done right in other routes before) but they never see a fix.

Maybe I got a little too specific, but to sum it up: wasted potential

 

Honestly, we've reached a point where we can't let Matt off the hook that easily. Two years ago, I think he took a promotion to executive producer and became one to call some significant shots in TSW development, yet there has been no improvement in what is happening to the game, some would say quite the contrary. There are definitely still other people above Matt meddling with the game's course, but it definitely from the outside does not seem Matt has the significant vote he said he would have when taking the role (or he's on board).

 

There I would disagree; it peaked with Rush Hour.

 

I don't think that's true; I suspect a lot of players are waiting on the new timetable.