Tilting

Discussion in 'Technical Reports' started by triznya.andras, Aug 30, 2020.

  1. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    I don't think this needs much explanation.
    It happens in all kinds of scenarios, particularly in free roams running for a while. It's one thing that these cars have too soft springs, resulting in excessive tilt in bends, causing tons and tons of train breaks, but they are also imbalanced from the get go, and tilt before coupling. Virtually every single coal, stone, waste car is affected.
    Is this a known issue, will this be fixed?
    Thanks.
    20200830211615_1.jpg
     
  2. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Which cars on which route?
     
  3. NEC Railfan

    NEC Railfan Well-Known Member

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    Those seem like 3rd party cars. I know those, they are Michael Stephen's, correct?

    Unfortunately I've had the same experience, and really it's just a matter of really old cars and slightly aged scripts, the ore jennys have insanely off physics at time, such as when braking, the coupler slack has me stop, then accelerate to 15 mph.

    Other than modifying the cars, there really is no other solution.
     
  4. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    Actually don't know, they have NS numbering but the only NS specific pack I used it RSC / SD40HnPack01. Might as well be from the original Kuju / RailsimulatorUS, or RSDL / USWagons01. I have this issue with literally every open, loaded, heavy car I played so far, except the CP ones. I guess they have copy-pasted configuration / scripting from the very original Kuju coal cars (Santa Fe / UP, called "Red" and "Yellow").

    After Save / Reload it was fine, after some driving it became like this again. This was something that was suggested to me when I shared some screenshots on Steam, one with some old coal car (probably from that high nose pack) and another with the Miami-WPB waste car.

    Route doesn't actually matter. This is Castle Rock, previously I had it on Colton & Northern.
    To a lesser extent I even experienced this with German rolling stock, the coal / grain car as well. But I didn't do much free roaming and I tend to avoid heavy cars.
     
    Last edited: Aug 30, 2020
  5. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I have not seen this on any of the UK and European routes I have played and I have over 100.

    Do these US Cars tilt when moving normally or is it when braking and stopping?
     
  6. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    There are two scenarios.

    The normal one: centrifugal force. It's 100% normal, except for the extent.
    Test case: build a consist of loaded coal followed by empty coal (5+5 makes it nicely visual). Can add other wagons for comparison.
    1) Cajon Pass, start at San Bernardino, traverse the crossover just to the north and observe it. You can see the boogie :)
    2) Pick some old All Aboard route, they have lots of long curves, traverse at various speeds and observe.
    Many cars are affected, including the double stacks, those look funny on switches / Cajon curves, too. While I didn't observe a derail due to tilt, I have deduced that coupler breaks happen a lot less if I never exceed 25mph with the coal cars. The only time I made it around Rascal & Cottonwood successfully was at 24mph. Norfolk Southern Coal District, loaded run, Part 2 is the same. Notable exception: Canadian Mountain Passes.

    The above one: play a free roam for an hour or two, then approach a long, previously loaded consist.
    There seems to be a random effect (number), so that the cars aren't loaded the same way, they tilt a bit. Looks good, actually.
    However, if the scenario is ongoing for a long time, they tilt so much, it looks like the picture above. If said consist is taken to a switch like scenario 1 above, they won't tilt further, and they do tilt to the other side with extreme ease. Looks scary.
    E.g. I took the consist pictured above in a healthy state from Monument to Castle Rock Metalworks. Ran around to push it to a siding. Upon reapproaching, it was tilting again, like in the picture - just a bit less yet.

    Note, a similar effect of time happens in the loco cab. After an hour, press 2 then 1 and notice that in a stationary loco, there is a significant head bob, as if zooming in. (Run an AEM-7 end to end between NY and Philly with a perfectly positioned camera. By the end, the speedometer is out of screen.)

    A little bit of both:
    20190521102105_1.jpg

    This is stationary - either Miami or NY-NH:
    20190521110323_1.jpg

    Sorry, it's a bit long ;)
    By the way, I can Twitch or record, albeit takes a bit of time.
     
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  7. josh.ostrowski03

    josh.ostrowski03 Active Member

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    I have also had this problem but it only happens with woodchip gondolas for some reason.
     
  8. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    As a last follow up by me on this, earlier I claimed that some cars do tilt in curves under normal circumstances. I also made a claim that there might be a template for loaded heavy cars that's been copy pasted across much of the game, at least US gondolas.

    This screenshot has been created two days ago, on my final journey on an old route, veterans might recognize the location: Castle Rock. The speed is 25.7 mph. The consist is completely healthy, no starting tilt (beyond the small normal amount).
    20200929230334_1.jpg

    Same consist in a straight line earlier during the run, for fluff and also helping identify the cars: they are from the Pacific Surfliner add-on.
    20200929223223_1.jpg
     
  9. DTG Jamie

    DTG Jamie Staff Member

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    Hi triznya, could you tell me the identity and specific name of the cars/wagons it has affected? also do you have an mods that change physics, audio or something along those lines? Trying to work out if something may have changed it
     
  10. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    It's the woodworm trying to abandon ship. ;)
     
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  11. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    Hello, I'll follow up, just give me a little time, please.

    I'll create a free roam scenario, ZIP it up and attach here. Do you have any route preference? Thinking of Ohio Steel, Cajon, Donner GWML, or maybe old PDL. These have sharp switches and curves and minimal if any superelevation, so trotting at 20mph is sufficient.

    I'll add as much as I can - at one point it might starting crashing and then I'll stop. Should I add cars one by one, or one consist? (In case you are missing assets. Not sure how it works.)

    For a start - all open gondolas in the Classic US Assets pack, when loaded. That's the coal and the low gondola seen above.
    The high gondolas are also affected, be it waste (Miami-WPB), the above one (Pacific Surfliner).

    I can add a few asset files if that can help.
    I didn't install any mods, but my DLC might interfere.

    I didn't / cannot reinstall due to workshop stuff and some 350 DLC entries, but I run file verification roughly once about every 6 months (after DLC removals).
     
  12. triznya.andras

    triznya.andras Well-Known Member

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    Please extract the scenario to:
    ...\RailWorks\Content\Routes\00000001-0000-0000-0000-000000000000\Scenarios
    It's for Oxford-Paddington, I added two US and one EU consist.
    Used Blueprints:
    • Kuju / RailsimulatorUS - Coal, Low Gondola, Double Stack
    • DTG / Miami
    • RSC / NewYorkNewHaven
    • RSC / PacificSurfliner
    Suggested use:
    1. Couple, accelerate to 25 and leave via Oxford platform.
      Observe the switches when entering the main. It's not too bad. There might be some tighter switches at places.
      Accelerate to 70. Observe the tilt of the last cars on the very light curve.
      Pass over to the high speed tracks past Didcot. Observe on the switches.
      Try not to fail the emergency like I did. Apparently the CSX Dash 8 fully supports AWS :)
    2. Spend an hour, say, take the P42DC consist on a tour.
      Return to couple to the coal cars.
      It should randomly tilt.
    If you need any specific files from my installation, please let me know.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Running US stock on British routes that have tighter curves and speeds around those curves is an unfair comparison.
    You need to test the US Stock on a US Route and then say where the problem is
    Most if not all US locos respond to the AWS - because they are not designed for a route that has AWS there was no need to remove the alerts from the locos script

    Peter
     

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