Following the announcements of the next batch of UK route releases, likely spilling into the first part of next year, perhaps it's about time to rethink the distribution of UK routes in TSW and maybe return to the Southern region? The last major Southern region route was released as a core route from TSW3, that being the extended Southeastern Highspeed back in 2022. Before that we had London Commuter, itself a fantastic route although now falling by the wayside in terms of newer features such as lighting and newer possible layers. The original Southeastern Highspeed and East Coastway were the only ones before that. (Note that I am excluding the two iterations of the Island Line by Rivet Games as this route is distinctly unique). Now we have multiple modern routes located in former LNER and LMS territories; those being Birmingham Cross-City, Glossop Line, ECML Peterborough to Doncaster, the upcoming WCML Euston to Milton Keynes, JT's WCML Preston to Carlisle to name but a few. Even from 3rd parties we have predominantly northern routes; JT's Blackpool Branches, Skyhook's MML, the two Scottish routes from Rivet Games as well as the new route from ATS suspected to again be northern based. We already have the wonderful Class 465 to make more use of, as well as the more recent Class 700 which feels like it deserves another route to really stretch its legs on. Something along the lines of a remastered Brighton Main Line or an extended East Coastway, perhaps even another Southeastern route continuing the Chatham Main Line into London Victoria. Now we have the Class 350 upcoming, this also allows the possibility of the near identical Class 450 in-game with a new operator, either SWR or the late South West Trains should licensing permit. Even a backdated route to BR times wouldn't go a miss, with such stock as the iconic 4-VEP, 4-CIG, Class 205 Thumpers and Class 73 amongst many others. This is by no means a complaint, purely an observation - we tend to fall into a lack of a particular route type then get several at once. Every now and then it would be nice to fall back into an existing region bringing new content here, whilst the opportunity presents itself before developers start choosing the next routes post TSW5's release. Of course some regions could still do with more representation, such as Wales which is only just getting its first route, or even elsewhere in the world such as is the case now with the Netherlands (although for this discussion let's just refer to the UK). *Note that by Southern region I am referring to routes categorised within the Southern region as part of the "big four" post-grouping, i.e. those mostly with the distinct characteristic of predominant 3rd rail electrification including those operated by current TOCs such as South Western Railway, Southern and Southeastern. Apologies if it seems like I am jumping ahead of things here - we have only just received the announcement of TSW5 but the future seems very optimistic for the game at present and I would just like to get my ideas out there whilst they're in my mind!
Now my preferences are likely well known by many on this forum, including yourself, but for any unaware I prefer routes in the Eastern Region and parts of the Midland region, with dirty blue diesels. This will forever be my preference, but I also understand the variety needed for a train sim and so I actually do agree with what you say here. The Southern region does need another new route for it, but I think it would need to steer clear of the Electrostar ridden South Eastern part and focus on the South Western part with its different 3rd rail stock. Alternatively (preferably for me) it would be a route set in the days of the slam door EMUs which would be nice no matter where in the SR it is. I also agree that BML should certainly be on the consideration list for a remaster as the timetable holds that route up and it would be nice for it to get an lick of paint, and some TL services. That does not mean development in the LMR, WR and ER should stop as there are still vast gaps in those still which need to be filled. The issue with the Southern region is that many of the services there are stop start commuter runs, which get dull very quickly and aren't different to what has been in the game many times already. The SW part of, or backdated era SR route are definitely things which need to be explored.
If DTG stick to form, then I reckon they’ll want to make use of the 350 as another route unit with slight changes, enter the SWML. An observation I would make however is that whenever people make this ‘it’s time for the South to come back, everything is in the north’ point, is that the Southern Region is just one out of many. WMR, ECML, WCML, Scotrail etc may all be North of the Southern Region, but they aren’t all the same thing really. Ultimately it comes down to how long things take to make, as you said, it was only TSW3 we had the last big Southern route, a couple of years without one isn’t exactly a huge gap in relative terms. If this pattern of the headliner UK route being a mainline once a year continues, then chances are we probably will get something to the south with TSW6. Just to be clear though, I do agree with you overall - DTG so far have a had a multi year obsession with Third Rail, and then immediately had the same thing with AC. In theory it’s a decent idea as it should lead to busier routes & more connected content, but in practice TSW has a lot of bits that should be working with eachother & it just doesn’t. You can bet we won’t see 350’s & 390’s in places like Glossop Line & CCL for quite some time, if ever.
I would be happy to see a new third rail "Southern region" route. I have said many times I think the class 465 deserves its own route, it feels wasted on SEHS. My preference would be for a slam door era route although I can't see that coming from DTG as it is too old. Maybe something set around 2003 where you could see class 421's and 423's alongside Electrostars. I agree that a route on the South West division would be interesting. I have just been riding on class 455's on the Chessington branch, a network of lines eminating from Waterloo would be interesting. I would love to see a class 455 in the sim.
Hopefully we'll see an SWT route soon, as the liveries look much better than SWR. My personal choice would be Winchester to Poole with the Lymington branch. Rolling stock could be the class 450, 444 and 158, as the 158 used to run the Lymington branch on weekdays.
There's a bit of Southern inspiration in the upcoming 350/1 as they were originally a cancelled order of extra 450s for SWT, that were redirected to Silverlink/Central Trains... Joking aside though, and more seriously I'd like another Southern Region route. Ideally sometime shortly before privatisation on the Portsmouth Direct route or a SouthEastern route from Charing Cross to Hastings. CIGs, CEPs, VEPs and EPBs... Maybe that's asking for to much though as we tend to only get 1 or 2 items of rolling stock. Maybe a VEP/CEP to start with... modify the existing 465 into NSE toothpaste... I can dream!
If they don't want to make a brand new route, they could at least consider remastering BML and/or East Coastway.
I'd be very hyped for any BR era 3rd rail route, or even a more modern day SWML route with the Class 442, but I don't have high hopes for it happening soon. Would be great though!
I’ll be hoping for LTS next year for TSW6 or Great Eastern as this is an overlooked region. I will be enjoying TSW5 in the meantime.
Worth keeping their LAMPOIL mantra in mind as they’ve said this is pretty relevant to how they plan content.. so things like having existing stock, existing major stations, existing licenses etc., but by no means does it rule out entirely new content. Also the route hopping feature might be something they prioritise moving forward when selecting content to make.. just a few musings based on this: 1. Clapham Junction station area exists and would be pretty useful in a SW add-on. 2. Brighton has been used twice already, but it has the West Coastway possibility. 3. Dartford.. if the London side of the SE network was added, route hopping would really come into its own at this station. 4. Reading is being updated for the GWE remaster and would be an ideal alternative SW/W route out of London. Route Hopping here would be interesting to say the least. [edit:] looking back at 4. here.. this would definitely be a route to spike interest, as well as realising the 450 Desiro could be included (worth half a LAMPOIL point surely), but the idea of route hopping between the GWE, SWR and BML at various point en route is interesting and surely too much of an opportunity to ignore..
I would raise a cautious “yes” to the OP but with a few caveats. Sharing views already expressed, south east and central have their share, so let’s do the south west. Preferably shift the era back to BR Blue. Plenty of diesel routes to consider. Matt talked in another thread about the desirability of modest network style routes. So how about the Oxted Lines pre electrification and rationalisation with Oxted to East Grinstead and Uckfield, also Eridge across to Tunbridge Wells. Class 205 and 207 Thumper DEMU’s. I’d buy that Day One. Or as previously suggested, Southampton to Weymouth when the Quay Line was still operational. 4 REP and 4TC with the existing Class 33 rebuilt into a Class 33/1 for the Bournemouth to Weymouth section.
Slam doors would be fantastic, and I believe theres a heritage railway that has a Class 412/411 somewhere which might provide access.. The West Coastway could use Brighton of course with the potential that opens up..
How about getting Salisbury in the game? It can be approached from all 4 directions and in BR Blue times has a right mish-mash of stock running through it. It would also be suitable for that CL50 we're hoping to get. Plus we might even get a blue CL33.
Westbury up to Bristol is another option. Lots of variation, beautiful line, big yards at Westbury, concrete factory just up the road (no longer in use).. etc The line up to Bristol runs alongside the River Avon for quite a long while and the Avon canal. Avoncliff is worth a google to have a look at some of the local scenery there. Its a stunning stretch of line and quite busy with a mix of freight and pax traffic. Bristol Southampton line in red, London-SW in blue, with the relief line bypassing Westbury
Something out of Waterloo NSE era I'd love, with a Class 50 on Waterloo > Salisbury/Exeter runs. But if it is a DTG core route then I'd expect modern era. I'd still like Waterloo based South Western area. That and Great Eastern seem to be the main missing areas presently. How about we throw in a BML remaster as well if we reuse Clapham.
Another thought, as DTG are pondering further network style routes if Cardiff City proves popular, why not recreate the South London Network from TSC. Alternatively back on the South Western, you could do a network style route based around Staines and Ascot, no need to do Waterloo if the workload is too great.
Eastern region is another case like Wales, it definitely deserves a route at some point (licensing permitting of course) with some ideal options e.g. Lea Valley Lines, Wherry Lines, part of the GEML towards Colchester/Ipswich with a few branches etc. along with the LTS network.
I have suggested such a route in the past, as part of a Westbury-Bristol-Swindon triangle network. However, if set modern then I suspect the current difficulty with the GWR license on new routes would prevent it. Strictly speaking, it would be predominantly western region as opposed to southern region, but we could include this as part of the argument (we only have GWE and WCL as true western region routes).
I'd like to see a Network SE thumper route come into the game as opposed to another EMU. I'm sure I read somewhere a while back that they can't get the license for SW Railway? Would that apply to the now defunct SW Trains as they had that in TSC.
Salisbury to Exeter would be good set in loco hauled days. I can't see them starting from Waterloo going to to Salisbury. Would also love a Thumper. I believe they were used on services to Bristol at some point so maybe Salisbury to Bristol.
I go to W'loo often. I don't mind either PDL or SWML but if they choose PDL I only see it going as far as Guildford but based on the WCML release there could be a goof chance of the suburban lines making an appearance. I'm not fussed over the Desiros but I'd love to see a 455. If they choose the SWT/SWR era they could rework the 700 as a 707. As long as I get my beloved 455s.
Waterloo to Portsmouth is a decent route on tsc with all the ap classics. It's a shame tsc don't have the performance to run it. I wouldn't mind some slam door emu's or demu's on some backdated southern routes. I think we may be in for a bit of a wait for anything like that.
Yes there was a period in the late 70's when Bristol to Portsmouth services were worked by an eclectic mix of Southern Thumper units and various WR DMU's including Class 123 Inter City units. Can't remember exactly when it went over to loco hauled, initially with the 31's then for a few years the 33's. Until Regional Railways decided to replace nice capacious 5 coach trains with the awful 2 car 155's in 1988!
I wonder what is more likely to happen, winning the jackpot on the lottery or DTG releasing Bristol to Portsmouth with a class 123 and a 205 set circa 1976? Sadly the former. I remember the 33's on the Portsmouth to Cardiff services and the disappointment when the 155's came out, similar to the ending of 31's on the Birmingham to Norwich and the cull of other loco hauled regional services around the late 80's. The bean counters won the day over passenger comfort. Although I wouldn't say no to Portsmouth to Bristol/Cardiff with a class 155 being released.
There was a reason why Regional Railways was disparagingly referred to as "Poverty Rail", or "Ramshackle Railways" in the late 80's! The theory behind replacing 5 or 6 car loco hauled formations with over 250 seats with 2 car Sprinters conveying 140 - 160 seats is there would be a more frequent service. Sadly certainly in the early days that didn't happen and both Cardiff to Pompey and Cardiff to Manchester remained essentially hourly. If the Sprinters had been specified as 3 car units with over 200 seats then most of the crowding issues would have been avoided. Anyhow back on topic, I fear a nice BR Classic "Southampton - Salisbury" network is not going to be on DTG's radar at all. Maybe a vague possibility JT could turn their attention to it once WCML is out, given they have done the route for TSC albeit modern, but not holding my breath.
