Time To Speculate On The New Uk Route

Discussion in 'PC Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Dec 30, 2021.

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  1. squerble

    squerble New Member

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    While this is a very fair point, the Merseyrail line(s) offer an attractive package to DTG to make. It can be split into two packages (Wirral and Northern), each offering a variety of routes over a small-ish network. Each of those full legs range from 20-60 minutes each so again makes a nice variety and a frequent timetable to boot. It also offers - admittedly small - bits of underground stations too for Moorfields and Central on the Northern line, and a few stations on the Wirral line, including Central (Low Level).

    It'd also be nice to "preserve" the 507/508 fleet as they're retired in real life as well as getting the upcoming and modern 777.
     
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  2. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Merseyrail would be most similar to Cathcart Circle, which went down surprisingly well considering it was a route no one to my knowledge suggested. The Wirral line would be most interesting, allowing for return journeys without switching cabs, as services loop around the tunnels underneath the city before heading back out to one of the four branches.
     
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  3. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    Currently the UK modern freight is all class 66, but you could add 68s and 70s and maybe some 92s, Railfreight licence would be great addition.
     
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  4. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Mersey rail has underground stations and given that one of the reasons DTG gave for the missing airport branch on Reisa Dresden being the underground station would take up to much time I would be surprised if they then opted for a route with 3 or 4 underground stationa
     
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  5. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    What about the Bakerloo line? I think the issue there is modelling the stations in such a way so the textures don't appear dark whilst underground. If it's only a handful of stations then it should be within reason I would assume. Don't forget there's also a time saving potentially of not having to model scenery whilst in a tunnel too. ;)
     
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  6. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    You would have thought that would be offset by not having to craft or place detailed surface scenery over the tunnel sections.
     
  7. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    1. Bakerloo
    2. It was more the fact it's an underground station on a branch line of a route that already had plenty of track miles; it was just an unnecessary cost of time and money that could be placed elsewhere on the route.
     
  8. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    I worked on two tone green Brush Type 4's. I don't think i was hallucinating and green liveried loco's, dmu's and maroon coaching stock. Lasted well into the early 1970's
     
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  9. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    New route will be modern rubbish and 3 miles long.
     
  10. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Where's the rolling eyes emote?

    Yeah, TSW routes tend to be on the short side compared to some TS1 routes, but at least be fair. Over the past year and a half, the routes with "modern rubbish" are actually the longer ones; Cathcart has a 314 and is about 20 miles, Bakerloo has the 1972 stock and is 15 miles, whereas SEHS has a 395 and 375 and is over 50 miles, likewise with London-Brighton which is pretty much all electrostars.
     
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  11. claus33

    claus33 New Member

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    What's the best bet on when we find out what the route is?
     
  12. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Roadmap next Tuesday
     
  13. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    How dare you! You didn't didn't mention the all mighty class 121! hahahaha
     
  14. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    So instead of the word 'some' you could put in 'not all were Green' Is that better?
     
  15. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    I don't get peoples obsession with historic routes and the UK seems to be alone in having this obsession. Every German route is modern and every US route is modern bar one. The French route and Swiss routes in the game are modern too. DTG basically put out one UK route every 6-8 months and if they keep on swapping and changing eras they will spread themselves too thin. The best thing about the German routes is the layering opportunities but that's only possible because they are all set roughly in the same era. I have nothing against historic routes set in the 90s, 00s or 2010s which use stock still in use today. West Cornwall is a good example as you can feasably use the GWE HST on it without it looking too out of place but some on here want to go back more than 50 years with trains that haven't been in service for decades.

    Anyway we know for almost certain that a UK historic route is coming with Spirit of Steam so you can all relax.
     
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  16. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Part of the problem is the UK having so many TOCs and not all giving licencing, making some areas impossible to do in modern times with all the correct branding. There's also a higher proportion of players from the UK audience who like historical stuff so I've heard. Also some BR stuff can layer onto routes of a similar vintage, so really we're not losing out on a whole lot of layering potential. If NTP and TVL were modern, nothing would layer across to/from CCL, ECW, LC, SEHS except maybe the Class 66 (which is seen almost everywhere anyway).
     
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  17. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I’d prefer more uk routes layering up rather than one per decade
     
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  18. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    If every UK route were set in the modern era, practically nothing would be different layering wise, except it'd be GWE layering onto Cornwall, not NTP. Also, the German playerbase I think skews more towards current stuff, the UK playerbase is all over in preferred era.
     
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  19. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Because some people like history and historical periods- and variety! Frankly, modern DB and to a lesser extent modern UK have a rather tedious sameness to them. Add to that the nostalgia factor for older players; I kind of want to experience the Bundesbahn and pre-Amtrak US passenger services from my childhood. (My memories of BR circa 1982... not quite so nostalgic)
     
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  20. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I want to go back to a time where in my opinion, railways were more interesting and more varied. I would also say more beautiful. That is just my opinion, others may and will vary.

    There is something much more rewarding when driving a powerful diesel with a long rake of coaches, mastering the gears on a first generation DMU or trying to maintain steam pressure on a steam engine whilst trying to climb a steep incline with a heavy load behind you. For me it is much more interesting than pulling or pushing a lever to make a train go or stop.

    I want to recreate what has gone before, much of it well before I was born than recreate something I can go an see right now if I want.

    Don't get me wrong I enjoy the modern routes but much prefer the historic ones and think the sim should have a balance to cater for all enthusiasts not just one type. I hope we do see some historic German routes as I love looking through my old Fleischmann catalogue from the 1970's and would love to see some of that recreated in TSW.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2022
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  21. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    I'm a historian, I like old things, simple as that really
     
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  22. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    As per the three posts above, absolutely 100% agree.
    Not afraid to admit at 60 years of age and having spent a considerable time in my youth and pre-married days (and a few after!) travelling around by train both in the UK and further afield, my primary interest is in reliving those times. Yes that probably makes me an old fart but trains back then had character and in terms of simulation require a bit more thought to operate - not a combined power brake handle that delivers rapid acceleration and more braking force than you'll ever need. As I've said before now, respect to those who like Electrostars or their DB 42x equivalent, but we have more than a few routes which now feature these for the modern fans, time to take the clock back. One of the reasons I'm enjoying the SF Corridor route is the largely traditional loco and coaches (well okay cab cars or as we call them in the UK driving trailers are boring) operation.
     
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  23. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    319s are pure thrash would love to see one in tsw
     
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  24. jamster47

    jamster47 Member

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    Second this! I remember a few years ago getting back to Gatwick after a late flight and listening to those traction motors scream on the way back into London.
    Would love to recreate that on BML.
     
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  25. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't agree more. Perhaps that's what it's really about, recreating an era when loco hauled trains were common and locos had real personality and took skill and your attention. I was thinking that very thought last night driving a London to Gatwick express and then a service to East Croydon. All I was doing was moving the throttle/brake handle back and forth like a fairground ride really. No real skill involved. Not even any switches to throw. So I switched to the GWE 101, which calls for more attention while gear shifting, watching the ammeter, and separate braking.

    I often go to the WSR just for some old-fashioned driving.

    No objection to those who just want to drive an emu, that's fine. But let's have some balance, some historical perspective.

    Of course DTG, like any commercial enterprise, is market driven and we all know, from reading these forums, where that market is.
    Just throw us COF's a few crumbs here and there, will ya? ;)
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2022
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  26. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Just to add, and repeat something I said a few days ago, I look forward to steam, partly for the reasons stated above. But will there be a healthy market for it in TSW?
    Will there be enough players who have the patience and interest to drive an A4 or a K4? And the route platforms that are needed for steam locos?
    There certainly is ( or was ) in TSClassic. I assume DTG will have done some market research among the player base. Let's hope.
    I dream of a transition route with steam and old diesel. I could spend the rest of my natural playing on it. ;)

    ( sorry for the digression )
     
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  27. formulabee#1362

    formulabee#1362 Well-Known Member

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    Closest we can get to a 321!
     
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  28. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    That is my concern too. The ball is firmly in DTG’s court to ensure how they present steam appeals to all age groups of player. That might be more imaginative challenges or scenarios, a tangible reward for achievements or AP (talking maybe a £x voucher off a purchase for reaching a certain level) to get people hooked and interested.
     
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  29. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    While that would be cool, there's exactly a snowman's chance in hell that them, or anyone else for that matter, would offer anything of the sort outside of a temporary event, like that one Steam sale a few years back.
     
  30. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Sadly you are probably right, which is why the current AP system and achievements are largely pointless (though that's a debate for another thread).
     
  31. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    For the German routes they also need Deutsche Reichsbahn DDR too. If that were to happen DB BR155 143 204 232 will see x button Xbox Square PS5 PC Q to turn them into Deutsche Reichsbahn DDR paint and mixed running schedule.
     
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  32. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    The railway of Old had a huge trainspotting scene and then in the 80s a large haulage sub culture also. Class 37s, 40s, 55s can all fill several coaches on a railtour just by being on the front end. (I used to be involved in this for my day job) Translate this into potential interest for train simming in a similar way to model scene then its a large interest potential. One day the current crop of electrostars etc will be considered heritage and no doubt the fans of the replacement trains will be asking why anyone likes the older stuff. We gravitate to what we know from our youth be it steam, diesels or modern EMUS. TSW can bring back to life long gone scenes such as that at Manchester Victoria but its a shame its so empty when I remember it was jammed with smoky DMUs and loud diesels all day.

    I'm not sure it needs further explanation and I'm not convinced the Germans wouldn't enjoy a Class 103 loco happening or a TEE train either....
     
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  33. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Or a 218 on a rake of Silverfish, maybe a 220 on a rake of UIC stock working an international "D" train!
     
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  34. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    My moneys spent if they do. Quite how folk can say nobodies into Older German stuff puzzles me. DTG have got the layers system going well with the DB stuff but they could start going retro with some of it such as the 155 and 143 and older stock.
     
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  35. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

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    Historic trains are just better than modern stuff in my opinion.
    Modern Britain can never have layers as everything is different all over the place, different trains and livery's even in the same area. Historic routes have the potential for layering you are looking for.

    Not everyone, I grew up with modern stuff but I defiantly prefer old stuff, I spend more time around and on steam trains than modern trains, I spent more time behind steam train than modern ones last year :) The last train I was on was over 70 years old and the last train I saw was 40+ years old :)
     
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  36. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    And face it- as a passenger (assuming you can live without Wifi), wouldn't you rather ride in a TEE m-Wagen 1st class compartment surrounded by wood and leather, and eat in the full dining car with tablecloths and china, than ride the "equivalent" 1st-class seat in an all-plastic ICE? Heck, wouldn't you prefer a 2nd-class compartment to any open coach?
     
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  37. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    Only a short route but has a lot of history and scenery and used in loads of TV and film scenes. KWVR.

    Others I’d like to see are the Severn Valley and Manchester to Crewe via Stockport and Manchester Airport.
     
  38. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I'll take the open coach tyvm.
     
  39. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Well-Known Member

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    1. What do you think the route will be? Settle to Carlisle
    2. Why that route? Iconic route, no need for new stock if set in the 80s, sets things up nicely for a steam loco. About time we had a really scenic UK route in TSW. Every loco could work on it as it's railtour central. I'd have WCML "Over Shap" as second choice for similar reasons but would need an AC loco unless it's pre-electrification.
    3. What will it not be? London Euston to somewhere north of Watford
    4. Why not? Complete clean sweep of rolling stock needed, Bakerloo would have to remain a separate route as they can't weld routes together yet.

      Special mention for the LTS/C2C, it's about time DTG.
     
  40. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Re WCML, Preston to Carlisle probably too far but Lancaster to Carlisle ought to be do-able. Imagine the kiddies trying to get to grips with a Class 86 tap changer, hee hee.

    I do firmly believe whatever the UK route is, it will be Spirit Of Steam “ready” so they can layer in a Black Five and maroon Mark Ones either as a plausible railtour or a bit of retro.
     
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  41. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Settle to Carlisle whilst an iconic UK route, for me isn't the most exciting. Yes it is a beautifully scenic route but operationally not that interesting, especially if you go back to the 80's when BR were trying to close it. It had a fairly sparse passenger service, the freight traffic passing through would be more interesting. In a diesel unit or loco hauled train it is not that challenging to drive either.

    As a steam period route it is a lot more interesting as it saw a lot of freight traffic as well as numerous expresses with local services at each end. It is also a challenging route to drive a steam train over.

    Also it really should start from Skipton, there is very little at Settle and it would never have been a crew change point, it is a minor station.
     
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  42. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    Fort William to Mallaig makes the most sense, scenery great, length is ok for TSW2 although a 156 is needed for anything post January 1989. I would hope its set in 1988 though and they do a 37/4 variant. The Thompson TS route was ok but had no super elevation and the RETB was restricted to the in DLC locos only.
     
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  43. Jpantera

    Jpantera Well-Known Member

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    I used to be BR Blue only, then started modelling sectorisation so I am gradually softening. One day I may even do something in the privatised era so interests can change over time. Older stuff does have a following amongst newer enthusisasts especially out in the preservation and modelling scenes. There is just often a wall of noise on this forum in particular that older stuff gets too much attention and only new stuff must be produced (even with the massive licensing and world pandemic hurdles to get over).....
     
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  44. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    The big problem I have with the version in TS Classic is that operationally it seems limited with the lack of decent sized yards along the line, as well as Settle being a bad end point. The incarnation of the line I really loved was the version made for Trainz, as it's set in the 60's before a good chunk of the yards and branches were torn up, and the line's extended up to Skipton to boot.
     
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  45. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    There is a nice TS1 freeware version set in the steam period also starting from Skipton. It uses a lot of what were default assets with quite a bit of other freeware items, so doesn't have bespoke stations. But it captures the scenery and atmosphere of the route well and has it's various industries. There are plenty of suitable steam engines DLC to run on it.

    I had the Trainz Classics version but I could never get into Trainz, I never managed to work out how to make "sessions" and there seemed to be very little tutorial wise to help. Whereas making activities/scenarios for MSTS/TS1 seemed much easier and with so much more help available. Anyway, I digress.
     
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  46. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    I know of and have the 1975 version off the workshop, but I've never heard of a steam era version of the route, do you know what it's called and where it's at? I would be quite interested in it.
     
  47. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    Carlisle to Settle or Skipton is too long, not so much in physical length but services would take over two hours to drive, and I don't think that would appeal to many people especially if we can't save progress in the game reliably. Instead we could have a shorter route (such as Appleby to Settle) focusing on the most scenic and interesting part of the route, which would be ideal for an hour long DMU drive.
     
  48. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    It really doesn't seem like travel time factors into their decisions, I've never heard anyone ever say on stream it's a factor. In fact there was a survey a year or two back which listed a bunch of routes that people could vote on to gauge interest in them. That included some rather long routes, Tehachapi Pass is the main one that comes to mind, and that's similar in travel time to Settle - Carlisle.

    Also there's plenty of people out there that don't have the time to even seat down and play for more than 30 minutes, let alone the hour or so that a good chunk of routes take. Let's be honest, DTG should've fixed saving a long time ago, and it's a issue that needs fixing now, not something that should be delayed until a route reaches some arbitrary length in travel time, because the amount of free time everyone has is different. And most games these days allow you to save anytime, anywhere, and even games that are more old school that have dedicated save points you need to use don't have them anymore than 15 minutes apart, in most cases more like 10 or 5 minutes apart.
     
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  49. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It's by Jetgriff and is on the wotawallysbits website:

    https://www.wotawallysbits.net/jetgriff-routes.html

    There is lots of other good stuff on there too.
     
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  50. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Appleby to Settle would see like an odd choice, and an incomplete choice. Settle station would be like ending the London to Brighton route at Balcombe. For me if they are going to do the route then it needs to be the full length otherwise why bother. You might as well use the resources to build something more complete.

    Personally I don't generally like driving more than one hour in a go although sometimes it is nice to do a two to three hour journey but the route has to be interesting enough scenically, visually and traffic wise to make it worthwhile.
     
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