Someone thought it would be a good idea to make the number harder to read the closer you get to the limit change, probably the same person that thought making the selected button grey on the TSW3 menus was a good idea.
Hopefully with the new improved design coming soon they will have scrapped the speed limit turning red as it is more distracting than helpful. It just isn’t required as you can see it is getting closer to the end of the graph.
And probably the same person that though a funky colored candy bar is a better distance indicator than actual numbers.
If only all the software geniuses on this forum would get jobs in software development, the world would be perfect!
First this would be a designers decision, not one from a software genius, second, do you have any problems when people point at problems? Maybe it would DTG really help to have some bright minds from the Community in the design team. Also it is nice for you if you are totally happy with the software, others would like to have it improved, this is why they make suggestions.
My point is that people in software (producers, designers, managers, developers - designers don't make decisions in a vacuum btw) don't generally deliberately do things to annoy people. Yes, there has to be compromises, otherwise nothing would ever be released, and, yes, mistakes get made, but it's a complicated business and people do care about the quality of their work. Unfortunately, most people don't appreciate what it takes. Now, customers have a right to be unhappy with the results but then they also have the choice not to spend their money. They also have the right to start their own company and show people like DTG how it's done.
Their is lots of examples of work done sloppy and rushed in TSW which surely can't be seen as a compromise. For the point of the new hud, sure it was meant with good intention. without a question. But it is pointed out since the TSW4 release that it is not perfect. DTG asked for feedback, so here is another issue raised.
Are DTG perfect? Nope. Can/Should they learn from their past decisions? Yep. But constantly repeating how rubbish they are generates a lot of heat but very little light.
They can and should, but they don't in most cases. This is why people are heaten up already. However, this is about the new HUD so this is not the place to discuss about DTG or the Software quality. Some people made feedback here, so we will see if this changes in the near future or not.
So... you're not happy that we want the many problems with TSW resolved. Repeating DTg's shortcomings is the only way to get noticed.
True, otherwise old problems which had been confirmed to be worked on are silenty disappearing over and over again until they are discussed again and put some pressure on DTG.
A serious question: have you ever worked at a software development house? I have (for over 30 years) and, believe me, it can be immensely frustrating to work so hard and then something daft comes up after release. You've sat in hours of meetings going over a design/spec. You've written tests. You've given it to beta testers and the issue has never come up. But it still went wrong. It's embarrassing, it's time consuming, it's horrible and, believe me, no one likes feeling that way and would do anything to avoid it if they possibly could. I'm not excusing things that go wrong, I'm just trying to say that these things unfortunately happen. The answer is to mitigate - more tests, improve processes, etc. - but it's not a magic bullet.
Of course, report your problems. But repeating yourself won't help (it just creates a lot of noise for everyone else) and some of the, quite frankly, nasty attacks on people's motivations are completely uncalled for and unnecessary.
No I didn't but I'm sure it can be frustrating, every work can be frustrating when you put a lot of effort in it and it doesn't get noticed or doesn't work as intended. But all of this is no excuse for a lot of problems which exist since TSW2. Passenger system broken for example, overhaul of steam engine physics (confirmed after SOS release), save game not working...etc. these are core features of the game, which are here since TSW2. Now we got two new iterations of the software, TSW3 and 4, stuff is not fixed. So frustrated or not, this is a problem of organization OR just ignoring problems. And yes you are right it seems to need more tests, more Q&A etc.
Also not true, DTG often doesn't react to feedback for a long time, as I said problems silently disappear from the roadmap, named as "confirmed" in the forums and will never get fixed. After the heat in the November Q&A Thread we at least got some answers to very old problems still being "looked into" which is nice but people feel fooled about, which is understable. It also doesn't justify sloppy fixes in some cases. Remove a bug, add two new problems, which also goes back to, not enough testing has been done before release of a patch.
Well yeah, we understand that. But when we as the customer sink lots of our hard earned money into the game only for things to remain broken and our concerns mostly unlistened to. It's hard to not grow frustrated and throw much harder criticisms. It is also annoying for things to constantly come out broken... QA process has to be stronger in the future. Hard personal attacks and insults of course are very much past the red line and shouldn't be tolerated, Developers are human beings with feelings just like us after all.
In what you've just 'asked for', you've underscored what a nightmare managing a development backlog actually is!
cornetrunner You are right and nobody doubt's it. But here is the problem, if you would fix stuff after the release within a short amount of time you wouldn't build a pile of small and big problems. And their is lots of small issues which could already have been fixed within a short period of time. Core features like broken passengers are another thing. But here again, you buy a pack called "Rush Hour" with a new passenger system and it is broken. And this is still the case two years after you have bought it. So clearly something is wrong here, right? (And btw. it will never be fixed for original buyers as TSW2 is nowadays abandoned software - So you never get what you originally paid for). DTG is advertising an Editor which isn't able to export (cook) your content into a pak file. It is like the new version of Word can't save a document. It is a basic feature of the software and it is broken!
TKessel I'm pretty confident that DTG know they mess things up but I'm also pretty confident that they try to improve as a result (it's existential for them). Unfortunately, they don't have the luxury of speaking freely on this forum, which might include telling people that their pet bug will never get fixed or, perhaps occasionally, they don't have a clue what they are talking about.
cornetrunner I would like to be as confident as you, but a lot of people including me are no longer very confident about things. This is why we point out several things over and over again. As I said in other threads, no one of us intendig to do harm to DTG or anyone else, we just wish for a better piece of Software. Also if things get overlooked by Q&A the community is at least a good source for a lot of things that went wrong. On the side of route development if you take a look at the new JT Route or at TSG's Niddertalbahn that their is also a big difference in the quality of content. Same is for DTG's own routes.
I'd argue that Birmingham XCity is pretty good and Brighton, for all its quirks, is a fun route to drive. But, yes, Blackpool and Niddertalbahn are great, however neither would exist without TSW and DTG, where a lot of the really clever software work is going on. On the shoulders of giants and all that.
And this is exactly why DTG has finally to get rid of core problems, because the quality of the 3rd party content is raising. But routes like Blackpooll and Niddertalbahn suffer for example from the same passenger problems as every other route. Something no 3rd party dev can do about, only DTG can. And this special example would benefit ALL content in the game.
The thing people don't get (commercial people in the software industry are the worst): the more you develop, the more there is to maintain but, unfortunately, maintenance doesn't pay the bills. "Do stuff to create less maintenance", they'll say. "That in itself is maintenance", the developers reply. It's all compromises, all the time. Look at Windows.....
Honestly, their isn't soo much developed on top. CSX Heavy Haul / TSW 2020 was introduced with and had simugraph as a base. So this was the core of the development. Everything else on top we got since then are small additions to the game, but nothing groundbreaking. And again, what does all this help me as a customer who paid money for a feature which isn't working as intended? I see a product advertised, I pay money for it, it is not in the state as it was advertised, so for me it is easy as a customer: fix it and give me what you advertised and sold to me That's it. And as said before by jack#9468 , all of this is not an excuse for problems and bugs ported from TSW2 to TSW3 and now to TSW4.
If you're worried about DTG 'conning' you yet again (you really need to have a word with yourself), then wait, watch the early YouTube stuff, read the forums and then make an informed decision. As far as I'm aware, no one is making you buy it only for you to be disappointed.
How do you know otherwise? Did you play CSX Heavy Haul back in the day? TSW 2020, TSW2, TSW2 Rush Hour, TSW3 and now TSW4? Go and install TSW 2020 or TSW2 if you have it in your backcatalog. Download an older route and play it in all the iterations of the game and tell me please what has fundamentally changed from the simulation, we are not talking about stuf like livery designer, free roam etc.
You can only compromise so far till your customers start to go elsewhere due to fix becoming more and more broken. With the prices of the DLCs, I expect them to be in good shape for a pretty long time... It is what developers have to expect if they want to keep their playerbase for the longterm.
I already do, but thanks for the tip. But even if someone does not, are they not allowed to have opinions of the product they paid for? I guess only chefs are allowed to criticize food in a restaurant. Or only car mechanics and engineers are allowed to point out problems of a car?
@Dinosbacsi There are ways and there are ways. And I never once said that people don't have a right to report problems or complain.
@Dinosbacsi The danger of selectively quoting is that you can take things out of context, like you just did.
Sure, I will start a lawsuit against a UK based company because of a broken passenger system and editor, not working as advertised. You are talking about basic problems of the software industry, which are undeniable for sure. But you are not saying anything about the specific core problems with this Software. It is true that with a raising backcatalog and more and more features added to something stuff gets broken or is more difficult to fix, no doubt about it. But as repated several times now, it doesn't change the customers perspective or helps in any way. To stay with the broken passenger system which we have now in three different paid versions of the game, if it doesn't work it may have to be redone. Lots of work for sure, but this is how it works also in software and especially game development. Other developers do this, feature broken, feature fixed or feature redone. But just letting a feature be in a broken state and pay over and over again for it is not what should be done.
You're clearly not listening and at this point are downplaying our concerns. I think it's about time we stopped there, don't you? We've strayed too far from the original topic anyway.
TKessel You're making the classic mistake of acknowledging a broader problem and then denying that it exists for your pet example. Of course DTG should strive hard to do better (we all should), to 'delight' their customers and all that, but if you think that all the bugs that annoy you will be fixed, then you're setting yourself up for disappointment. jack#9468 I am listening to this particular discussion (it's interesting) and I'm not downplaying your concerns (I believe I'm trying to add perspective), but a lot of what happens on these forums simply generates a cacophony of noise. Channel your frustrations more and it will be a happier and possibly more productive place.
You're basically saying that the problems we are having aren't unique to TSW, when in fact they are. Anyway, like I said, let's just end it here as this conversation is clearly going nowhere.
I'm 99.999999999% sure they've got one. Most software houses don't share them with customers (rightly or wrongly), not least because it's full of commercially sensitive stuff and people need to feel safe being candid.
More and more people appear to be taking this path, so good shout on that one. More and more people are being vindicated on that choice as each iteration comes and goes. Personal choice and I try to give credit where its due, but TSW4s launch was quite something to observe. Luckily for DTG, Just Trains has pulled their proverbials from the heat a little with what looks like a stella bit of output. I'm sure there's a few folks breathing a little easier as a result. I'm curious what the folks at Focus think of it all. I'm sure the bean counters down there have had the Chablis on ice for the last few weeks..
I am not tryint to take things out of context, I am merely removing the parts that are irrelevant to my answer.
