Train Sim Society Covers What Is Happening On The Discord

Train Sim Society covers what is happening on the Discord

Quite a bit of substantial stuff being discussed over there.
Multiplayer, blur issue, GSMR, upcoming routes, etc.
I haven't seen anything as open and transparent as that on the forum but maybe I missed it.
Anyway.... discuss.

 

DTG have started sharing the Q&A sessions themselves on the forum as of this week after feedback from forum users.

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/dovetail-discord-december-9th-q-a-event.95675/

That YouTube channel is very click bait in terms of video titles. DTG closed the door to multiplayer back around the end of TSW2 / start of TSW3, it’s common knowledge among the community.

 

I don’t think anyone was desperate for multiplayer anyway

 

I still see new people coming on who just got into the game asking about multiplayer, so "common knowledge" depends on when you joined and how active you are. Is there one official place for QnA up to this point to show newbies to get them up to speed?

Specifically I didn't post it for the title, but more the other things discussed as the team working on the "blurring" issue. At least 3 different groups of "thought" were all in a way correct on it. Some of it was optimization, some of it was core issue, and some of it is simply more layers generating more load on memory which consoles have less of.
So it's not just one "silver bullet" and the other people are "crazy."
They were all contributing factors.
So the "fix" is not just one thing either.

The other thing was the comment that the GSMR thing was not being led by DTG, but by Firefly and that they wanted player feedback. So again, multiple things at play. Third parties do have a lot of leeway to introduce their own content. DTG sometimes adopts that if popular. It's up to the community to speak up (constructively!)

I bring this up because so many people have said that DTG "doesn't listen" and others that "third parties can't do much new, DTG has to introduce new features." Maybe sometimes it's the third parties leading the way. Which is frankly a huge benefit of having third parties involved in the process, as much as many folks don't like that business model.

I enjoyed the insight into the thinking of the folks at DTG and it can help improve communication and relations in the future.

 

I hope Firefly's GSMR becomes the new standard. At least to the same standard as AP's, where you can input the code.

 

Indeed... SimRail be thataway >>>>

 

Railroads Online, or Run 8, etc.

TSW does not need to have everything every other game has.

It's okay to just be its own thing. =-)

 

i honestly dont see the hype about popping a 4 digit code and 3 digit signal number into a radio on a computer game when it basically has 0 inpact on how the game will operate.

 

That YouTuber is only interested in growing his channel, not the game. I’d say most of his stuff is conspiracy theory garbage, he has no more insight than anyone else who takes an interest in the game.

 

My thoughts exactly, it adds nothing to the actual gameplay, unlike safety systems. If it did add gameplay I’d be more interested but again, it simply doesn’t.

 

His videos make my skin crawl.

 

Train Sim Society is not an enrichment. It’s often the same things being reused over and over again, with lots of loud clickbait titles. I’m not a fan of him. He does get some views, but very few likes. That’s because when you finish watching, you’re left thinking: “What have I really learned from this?!”

Negative attention is still attention, so to speak. He can only keep viewers engaged by constantly exploiting negative points for attention, while often doing little actual research into the facts.

 

Exactly!!
I’ve never really understood what’s supposed to be so special about a GSM-R in TSW. And entering four digits isn’t exactly an exciting addition you can’t really do anything further with it.

 

That is youtube unfortunately.

Even channels I place a lot of stock in have the most ridiculous titles to their videos that it makes me so mad!!

I thought they were AI generated or something, because it baffles me that a person is coming up with them themselves.

 

Can i call it some type of "ragebait"?

 

I like TSS videos. Once you get over the American enthusiasm I actually find him one of the more balanced reviewers, he gives credit where due and helps to provide a bit of a news feed on the latest goings on here on the forum or through other official channels. A lot of the YouTube channels covering TSW content either have long held vendettas and grudges (kiwi bloke I’m looking at you) or are affiliated with DTG in some way. Also I disagree that he’s in it just for the clicks. He is clearly genuinely wanting to move the game forward, his coverage of the weather mod made me aware of something I never would have clicked on otherwise as I’m not interested in the annotations bit. Making a massive assumption here but I would also politely suggest that his target audience isn’t the same demographic as us dinosaurs most active here. (Train Sim Society you can pay me for this later)

 

Yes, they are trying to elicit some emotion or another.

For me it is almost always annoyance though!!!

 

For me, anything, no matter how small, that increases realism is a win. Granted I won’t be buying DLC purely because of this ‘feature’ but I am pleased to see new ways of interacting with the train, something else to do that increases that realism/immersion dial

 

The GSMR seems like just an optional thing for those who want it. If you want to key in the headcode at the start, great, you can do that with this train, if you don’t want to you can just set it up and drive like any other train

 

Nothing on any in-game train is actually required other than forward/back/stop and safety systems.

Everything else is just immersion and the more the better for me.

Personally, I wish the scoring was more punitive if you set certain things up wrong, or fail to use certain features/use them incorrectly, but it is not.

For example lights.

Run tails on the front, night heads on the rear during the day, no problem. All lights off, no problem. Still platinum.

Even brake demands from falling foul of TPWS or AWS etc, no actual penalty, although I imagine this is seen as 'quite bad' for real life drivers.

There is of course a space for correct cab setup in the 'new scoring', but don't think it was ever implemented?

 

I thought immersion was a big factor? Isn't that precisely what GSM-R adds.

Plus it's been frequently requested.

 

and does nothing towards the sims gameplay when we have other things that NEED FIXED

 

GSM R will be incredibly fiddly to set up on console. If scoring ever counts against you for not doing it, I hope we get an additional 2 mins set up time.

 

WRT GSM-R if SimRail is anything to go by I have my options set to auto tune and change the radio channel. And yes that sim does penalise you if you run with the radio wrongly tuned.

 

When I see this, I immediately get chills. It’s so ridiculously over the top. These kinds of terms add nothing and are basically just massive clickbait.



You can already tell from the title ‘Are You Missing Half the Timetable on Stuttgart–Heilbronn? (Brutally Honest Review)’ that he’s not trying to appeal to everyone, but mainly to the frustrated users who fit perfectly into his narrative. After all, people who are perfectly satisfied aren’t interesting to him anyway.

 

Another one here in favour of extra GSM-R features. People are correct in that it adds nothing to the gameplay in terms of being necessary to drive the train, but this is a train simulator and if we want to drive trains the same way they are IRL then features like these are a must. I’m still unhappy that the Class 66 has been bundled into so many modern day routes still without the GSM-R in the cab.

I also agree that more set up time is needed on consoles. It’s a real challenge in itself to get all the safety systems turned on in the IET cabs and make an on time departure. I did vote in the survey for an option for all safety systems on by default in future iterations of the game.

 

also, I don't know about other DramaTubers, but TSS often leads with a VEEEERRYYYY click bait title and then after (I presume) the initial wave of views changes it to a more neutral thumbnail.

 

i think Train Sim Societies videos do give some valid points and discussions and it is well spoken, but I do think the thumbnails and titles are a bit over the top and exaggerated.


At least he isn't like DC4260 where he whines and complains 24/7
at least Train Sim Society balances it out with positives as well as negatives, which I respect him for.

 

As someone who's last time commenting on a TSS thread was criticizing the clickbait nature of this stuff...

...Christ take some chill pills, I don't like the clickbait, but then TSW itself has committed far bigger sins that get thrown under the rug because "It's business". It seems frankly hypocritical to then throw a YouTuber under the rug when he's basically doing the same thing, like or not clickbait's a part of the game. (Heck, game titles are clickbait in their own right, and look at how people go defend this game's title each time it's criticized!)

His videos themselves are fine, they're pretty fair, and they're well edited and straight to the point, while also having good audio. If anything I actually break away from most in this thread and say his biggest problem is that he's too diplomatic at points if anything. That said, he still has teeth when they're actually needed, so I hardly consider it even a minor issue, much less a major one.

He's good enough that if I wanted to tell someone about this game I'd probably actually use his videos to explain problems with it. Compare that to say a Schnauzahpowahz video, I don't think I could get a non-railfan to watch what is barely more than a edited livestream of him live reacting to stuff for a hour, I probably could with TSS though.

 

I actually quite enjoy the TSS clips and feel they strike the right balance. Not sycophantic towards DTG or the 3P’s but giving credit where due.

 

90% of Train Sim World Youtubing is reading the roadmap or recording themselfs playing the game. Anyone can do it. I have a little channel where i sometimes do TSC stuff. I get about 300 views per video. Once I made a clickbait title and suddendly over 4000 people tuned in. It´s how youtube works.

 

As an American console player (PS5) I find his videos really helpful to me. Just my opinion and we all know what opinions are like

 

It is to a tiny minority.
To most it isn't.
*shrugs*
Can't please everyone.
The whole point of a game is to have fun and people have different ideas of what "fun" is.

 

My only notes for Train Sim Society’s videos, which are perfectly fine content wise and he sums up what’s going on rather well, are that the wide aspect ratio he uses for his nice gameplay footage isn’t really suitable for youtube (as people tend to watch on small devices) and he should not have music playing in the background as it is distracting and just not necessary. As for clickbait titles and thumbnails, that is just how youtube works. He clearly puts in a lot of work to make the videos and he deserves to get as many views as he can.

 

I actually find his channel very informative and also very fair.. The numbers he gets on his channel is pretty impressive which I think should be a good thing for the game in the long run. Clearly there is great interest and passion for the game or people wouldn’t spend 20 minutes every few days watching them. Some, especially those that tend to be more supportive towards DTG, focus too much on the titles of his videos instead of the issues he's actually bringing up. There’re decent feedback and information on his videos about the current issues the game is facing. He brings up things that have been heavily discussed on many public platforms like the forum or discord. As far as
clickbait, is not different than DTG saying expect the unexpected. I don't mean that in a bad way.It's just a form of advertising. It's normal a way to get players to view your content. Which I believe the most do to get exposure.

 

That’s where you are wrong DC has Actively been saying the flat truth about routes and other addons without needing clikckbait

 

GSM-R has been highly requested. How does that equate to a tiny minority?

 

I find his videos balanced. The thumbnail is simply to be eye catching and tempt you to click. Its pretty common amongst youtubers who want engagement and views especially if you're doing it as a part time/full time job. I personally don't think its too bad ive seen far worst that are completely misleading and irrelevant. TSS title/,thumbnail focuses on hot topics in TSW and it can be a place to voice and share opinions whether its for or against.

 

To be honest, at the beginning I was totally onboard with his videos. As time went on however I noticed the following signs more and more:

- Using footage that is not his in around 50% of his content, yes he credits it, but this is very low effort
- Regurgitation of comments from the forum as his own content and oppinion. For someone not on the forum every day maybe new information, for me it just feels like spreading the toxicity that has enveloped the forum and the constant flame wars and attacks on dev/management staff. I can understand some or most people in the hobby are on the spectrum and well social skills might be impaired somewhat, but this has gone too far, the blaming, the attacks, it will never result in the result that those people expect.
- Clickbait overload, "Brutally honest" everywhere. When you are from the US and have zero knowledge of european rail I cannot trust your un-informed oppinion as brutally honest, sorry. It is an oppinion but nowhere brutally honest, especially when it regurgitates information we already know. It is a youtube thing and gains followers but at what cost in the long term?
- Overall while the quality is good audio/video wise, the whole thing screams low effort, mass media news style.

I actually started avoiding his videos, as I know i will not find out anything that i cannot find on the forum myself usually. I feel like the inflammatory content will kill the very community his channel is built upon. Once DTG and TSW are gone, and we all feel this looming over our heads with the direction things have taken, his channel becomes worthless.

I would much rather see the community step up and improve the game, join the studio if they are actually qualified, we have all seen the modders become 3rd party studio recently, rather than the low effort shout as loud as you can style TikTok content prevail and kill whatever is left of the community.

 

Hey all, just wanted to pop in and say thanks to those who've had kind things to say here.
Really does mean a lot. As for the titles and thumbnails, yeah, I get it. Not for everyone. But when YouTube is your full-time gig (which I'm super fortunate to have), you kind of have to play the algorithm game. But it's a lot more than clicks for me, I really love this game and care about what I put out there. The titles and flashy thumbnails are just how you get people to actually see it. I'm always looking to improve though. Thanks for the support and the constructive feedback. I can absolutely take it, especially if dishing it out is at the center of what I do.
Cheers!

 

Have to respectfully disagree with most of the what zsolt_93 had to say above.

I just watched two of TSS clips while on the exercise bike - the Discord Q&A and Survey overviews. Found both helpful and informative and I was largely nodding and agreeing with what he had to say. It is quite possible to like TSW but still be frustrated with the issues the game has plus the direction DTG may be planning to take it in. We are paying customers and excuses only go so far.

 

Vern you are one of the people I know for sure are a pillar of the community and I highly respect your oppinion and mostly agree with your usual comments and appreciate your disagreement too.

Knowing that you had done some MSTS content work you know also pretty well what would go into creating the content that we all enjoy, yeah not at the complexity of TSW but the conecepts are the same.

Maybe my oppinion was influenced by the fact that I have 10 years of working in commercial software dev behind me, and have never seen a project that was spotless or even close. And over the years the overall quality of software is rapidly declining, the things we all pay for starting from Windows to dev tools and game engines going into entertainment software, everything is more and more bloated and less and less stable due to feature creep, and due to corporate politics where money talks. Once the game is not profittable they will not invest to fix it, they will simply cancel it, this is why voting with your wallet suggestion only works in the sense of the customer making economy by not buying.

There is nothing the community can do by just typing aggressively on their keyboards, unless they join the ranks of developers and try to sway the quality by investing their precious time (and probably most of their free time too). This is why my overall hope stays with third parties, who can still stick to a more relaxed schedule, rather than DTG to keep the passion going, maybe even TSC style and without the publishing involvement over time. It is kind of sad to see them being flamed at for their first pieces of content they made, every single time. Remember the Centro 323, ATS shitshow about the internal workings of the team started by a certain member, and fueled by the community, then funnily enough AABS got off to an even worse start with the LOVE stirring team member on board, up to the recent german content by community members where people are complaining about rolling stock reuse for a first project that has no financial backing until if actually goes on sale.

Been here since 2020 or so and seen the excitement and enthusiasm vanish from Matt P.'s face as time and streams went by, and become more of a PR effort to show that something new and exciting is coming out, when deep inside everyone knows that this is not sustainable and are fighting to even keep the game functional. Probably the best for everyone would be for the game to cease development and maybe start clean, which they might be doing in the background. But dev effort still needs to be paid for and money must roll in so regardless what the community thinks the game and DLC will stay on the stores be it with bugs or not.

 

TSS is one of the few channels I'm subscribed to you YouTube (along with BritishAce). As has been pointed out, the headlines are definitely something... but if you look at the views the videos get, it does the job and the content I think reflects a balanced view pretty well.

I get the impression his criticism comes from a place of wanting the best results for players while also reflecting the realities of sustaining a business (especially right now, in videogames, it's very hard). Kind of... holding people to account, but giving credit where it's due. I often find that his videos highlight information I have missed elsewhere, while also reflecting a bunch of concerns that exist on this forum too.

And besides... it's not as if clickbait topic titles aren't prevalent on this forum - for the exact same reason, and to the exact same effect.

 

My main question is: why the Q&A on discord is a real Q&A, when Q&A roadmap section on YouTube is like "can i buy this game on Steam?".

 

I was wondering about that too. My feeling is that it was more likely a one-off due to the state of the game right now, not a new normal because they're on Discord. I suppose we'll see. Thankfully we do have have Train Sim Society to summarize it for those who are not on Discord. I do appreciate his videos, and I'm not sure if there is anyone else out there in his space. Most of the others are doing reviews, but not the state-of-game updates with any regularity.

 

I thought they were giving an opinion?

 

It's been often requested by a small minority.
Just like the Deltic for example.
A few people request it a lot.
Most don't even know what it is, let alone want it.
But the vocal minority is very vocal.
Unfortunately a vocal minority still only buys one copy per person.
If it's popular and people buy it...then we'll probably see more of it.
If it's not popular and people don't buy it...then we probably won't.

 

How would you gauge the popularity of solely GSMR in terms of sales though? I really doubt that in itself it’s a data point.

More likely they look at sales performance of routes & trains that offer more features as a whole, such as expert locos.

 

Or write a survey that specifically asks about those type of features…