Train Sim World 2 - Bakerloo Backbone

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Oct 14, 2021.

  1. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Community Manager Staff Member

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    Mind the gap, as Rivet Games’ London Underground 1938 Stock has arrived in Train Sim World 2 for yesteryear Bakerloo Line operations!

    Read the article here.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2021
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  2. BBIAJ

    BBIAJ Active Member

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    Achievements for this and the DB BR 187 have still yet to be listed on the Xbox Series X, holding off starting the DLC, as I've had issue with achievements not popping retroactively in the past.
     
  3. mldaureol2

    mldaureol2 Active Member

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    Looking forward to tonight’s stream.
    Mike.
     
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  4. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    I’ll not be watching tonight. I have no interest in the 1938 stock and any interest I had in the 187 has evaporated in light of early adopter feedback.
     
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  5. Rich_84

    Rich_84 Member

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    Have they included some half decent sounds or is it just as bad as the 483?
     
  6. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds are the same
     
  7. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Has to be worth joining for entertainment value.
     
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  8. Dinger75

    Dinger75 Active Member

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    Not interested until River get their act together and fix Arosa

    What are you saying...

    And on tonight's stream, the Piñata for this evening, sorry we mean host, is Sam
     
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  9. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Mind the gap between how the train sounded and how this DLC version sounds. It’s pretty large.​
     
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  10. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    This DLC was a buy for me because im interessted in the UK rolling stock (old & modern). During this trip i could hear the signal relay switching form green to red...
    Unfortunately driving the now released 38 stock reminds me tiping keys on a keyboard instead of immersing me driving a tube stock. A so called "Star Wars Glider on Rails".

    If this Beast ist approaching a Station people seem to forget there are weights more than 160Tonns braking to 0mph in a short period of time. The Tube Stock is rattling during driving, and there is force going on due traction & braking between the wheels / Rails. Even during Coasting the Train is making sounds. (Bearings and Moving parts)



    Only in Rivets 38Stock, the driving experience seems to be a steril silent journey down the river. For my final Feedback, 3D Model looks top, and the amount of Detail in functionality is similar to the 483, which im ok with it.

    To say it straight, the sounds are ruining my experience, which is also the reason i stopped driving after 15min and will just wait for an update. Havent refunded it, because i see a chance to get this right. So here my constructive advise:

    Rivet / Jasper, you should take a look at this, because im sure im not the only one here seeing the sounds as the main problem of this piece of content. I hope you get fact its important, because the community seems to loose trust in your company. Since im convinced Rivet can produce also high quality contenct, this is the time to prove it to us.
     
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  11. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    My advice would be to refund it. Rivet don't have a history of updating things. If they update it in the future you can always rebuy it. I made this mistake with Arosa, and I should have refunded it when I had the chance.
     
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  12. Rich_84

    Rich_84 Member

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    The 438 was a let down sound wise & they haven't improved the sounds of that yet & I doubt they never will.
     
  13. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    What I remember of the '38s (they were still running on the Bakerloo back then) was that they were above all rattly, squeaky and noisy. If Rivet missed that, they missed the whole 'character' of the train.
     
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  14. LWDAdnane

    LWDAdnane Active Member

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    As has been said above, the sounds are probably the worst thing about this loco. I couldn't help but complain about it again and again during my stream yesterday. It felt like I was sailing a boat through a quiet lake instead of a train from 1938 on the underground
     
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  15. conniethunder

    conniethunder Well-Known Member

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    Apparently, sounds were there, but only when stood up in the cab :)
     
  16. hoagy

    hoagy Member

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    Thanks for letting us know. Don't forget to keep us informed on other things you won't be doing.
     
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  17. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I remember when I was kid travelling on the '38 stock was my ears constantly popping, lol. With what people have said about the colours and what I vaguely remember riding on these I thought I'd try and find some videos of real ones on youtube, there are quite a few.

    They have some running in 2017 with 'special' at the bottom of the destination boards on the front of the train like it is in game and even saw the modern tubes alongside so the DLC is believable to a certain extent. But saying that the colours don't look quite right, the red is a bit more shinier in reality and the green is more darker and of course the missing guard rail and guard.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
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  18. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Which is why at present it has only made it to my wishlist, for a possible £6 purchase at Xmas.
     
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  19. zefreak

    zefreak Active Member

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    I made the purchase and have done a few services as well as the Blast from the Past scenario, and quite like it. The sound does need to be fixed, especially when coasting - it is basically silent. Im happy with the purchase
     
  20. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    I guess after next thursdays release they should have a bit of time left to fix what people ask.

    I get they are a small team, but right now so many people just dont buy anything from rivet because they basicly ignored customers bug reports. This is a chain up to future releases and can cost a companies head.

    A happy customer is the first step to a wide customerbase. So is it really spent time wrong going into released content to improve or fix it?

    Easy example on iow. Rivet could get in contact to the modder of the isle of wight pis screens & hovercraft service, and ask to add that content to their standard iow product.

    Other example on 38 stock. 99% of all customer reports talk about the bad sound mixing. In the preview stream when sam cut the power for coasting, it was almost pure silence.
    Here once again:
    Sound mix of the 38 stock needs to be reworked because its no immersion at all

    My personal opinion is that i want people to like Rivets products because they make nice stuff. 38 stock was a good choice to develop and the cathcart circle is enjoyable and im sure west cornwall wil be too.

    Just miss the "surprizing thing" on rivet. Like as dtg announced the high amount of services on london commuter.
    Few class 08 shunting services & a class 47 layer for west cornwall would be such a surprize. I dont get why rivet is not going an extra mile here, would be advertisement for a little effort.
     
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  21. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    I was looking forward to this for nostalgic reasons but at the moment, it’s just not authentic enough, particularly in terms of its sound and the internal green colour, which is just plain wrong. On the stream they said that it looks lighter because of the lighting in the tunnels but this is wrong because it still looked wrong on the overground section. Other colours are OK.

    I usually play on Xbox but if there are mods made to improve it or make the Bakerloo more like the 70s, I might buy it for the PC as I have the Epic version of the game.
     
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  22. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    Well i can forgive a slightly wrong green, but not the sounds.
     
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  23. li150special

    li150special Active Member

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    The preview picture says it all. The reflections of the headlights on the other train are upside down (or 483-ish, for that matter).
     
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  24. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well I decided to give it a try, can always refund later if it really does not fulfill my expectations. Every time I see that (maybe flawed) interior, I can smell the hot Bakelite!
     
  25. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    What frustrates me with DLC being released by third party or DTG is that even though they are good enough in the main with a little knowledge they could be superb. Take the 38 as an example, If they had fixed the light reflections, got the right colour Green, Guard rail put in they would get a lot of praise and if they had better sounds and timetable it would be on another level.
     
  26. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Initial thoughts... I will give it 6/10 which means it is a keeper - just. (Update 18/10/21 I since refunded).
    The model is good and while the interior should be a little more dingy I can live with it.
    Physics seem reasonable though the acceleration is a bit jerky particularly going through gaps, as the rest of the train would still be powering. Braking requires a bit more thinking than the 1972 stock which stopped on a dime with minimum application. Above about 25 MPH the EP brake takes a while to kick in and I over-ran one station as a result. That means it will be pretty much impossible to keep time driving these.
    The cab interior and instrument lights do not appear to respond to the usual L and I keypresses which mean you have to hunt around in the dark cab.
    The sound, well it is just dire. Needs a complete rework and DTG/Rivet should frankly have been ashamed to put it out in this state. The London tube trains are iconic and that includes the sounds they make. It really seems like the sound was mixed for a Gameboy. Cuts in and out abruptly especially over said gaps in the juice rail. There is no wind down sound when you throttle back, just suddenly have a quiet cab. The compressor sounds like someone rattling a tin of nails. The track noise is none existent, barely a hiss on the CWR and the points sound like they were lifted from Kuju in MSTS 2001, i.e. someone hammering an anvil.
    So I would say this definitely needs a rework even though it is effectively a new(ish) train for the game. It certainly doesn't bode well for those who have already pointed out the sound deficiencies for West Cornwall as observed on the streams, etc. Rivet really need a kick up the posterior and told to get their act together in the audio department.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
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  27. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Rivet did missing the Whisle Horn button
     
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  28. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Here we go again. We have a decently modeled train, but once again we are complaining about the sounds. We've been here so many times with TSW. What in the world is it about audio retrieval, mixing and just general engineering that is so difficult for DTG and third parties to get right? In this case, we're not in Utah or even Hamburg, we're right slap in the middle of London. Everybody knows what the tube sounds like - it's noisy, rattly, squeaky and squealy, particularly 80+ years ago, even I remember that sound from visiting London in the 60's and 70's. It's maddening when a perfectly acceptable train model is largely ruined by inadequate sound or a poorly fashioned horn.
    I don't pay much attention to the stream as far as trains and scenery are concerned. They're often a poor indication of the release itself. But the sounds are unmistakable and even DTG Protagonist said they were quiet, trying to be nice about it for the developer's sake, I suspect. It really spoils the immersion.
    It's apparently a problem without a solution. No matter the volume of complaints from the community, the volume of the trains doesn't improve.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
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  29. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    It's not like there isn't tube stock in MSTS or even BVE which they could listen to at least for reference purposes.
     
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  30. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't agree more, well said. I as a kid thought the tube as you said just iconic. Don't AP do sounds for the tube? If they do DTG and all the other third parties should have to use AP sounds as default. I remember a while ago on a stream they were even talking about getting the sparks from the Tube trains but gone quiet now. If they only did two things, get decent sound and then the sparks from the tracks the underground would be transformed.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2021
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  31. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    Even when they are using AP sounds people still complain about them. AP are good but some people do seem to act like AP is a magic bullet that will solve underwhelming sounds in-game.
     
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  32. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    That is fair enough, but lets say there was DLC coming out and say AP did the sound to it, would that make you more eager for the DLC or less?
     
  33. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, sounds are pretty low down on my list of priorities, good sounds are nice to have but are not in the slightest bit a deal-breaker for me.
     
  34. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    It depends on the personal circumstance I suppose. Personally, if I was interested in the BR 187, it wouldn't bother me as I don't know what it sounds like in real life but the 1938 stock was iconic to me growing up so unfortunately, I have to pass at this time as it sounds nothing like the real thing. It's a shame as I was looking forward to it. Maybe I'll change my mind if it's in a sale and there are sound mods available.
     
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  35. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Good sounds itself will not magically fix things. More times than often, it’s down to the poor mixing setup which is DTG’s responsibility.

    Even with the 387 we have some looping issues, as well as sounds cutting out and not playing.
     
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  36. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Well for me I'm with Sam as he said on stream we can't have the smell so sound and sight is vital for immersion. Sounds won't fix anything but it can improve DLC 100% if they get the sounds right.
    Perhaps it is different with all these Electric trains as they don't exactly get the blood going like the Diesels of yesteryear or even Steam where the sounds were brilliant.

    Trains were loud, smelly, and looked brilliant going back a few decades. Sound is all about immersion for me but everyone has their own take on it.
     
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  37. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    When steam comes, there can't be any compromises on the sounds. I mean those of us who are old enough can remember the deafening noise of a steam locomotive. It simply cannot be quiet. That would be ridiculous.
     
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  38. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I agree, the nostalgia is fantastic if the sounds are right.
     

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