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Train Sim World 2 - Building Riesa Dresden

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, May 25, 2021.

  1. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    You want green GWR 166s running out of Victoria?
     
  2. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    No. They run between Redhill and Gatwick Airport, which is on this route.
     
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  3. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    The Hl-system is the east German counterpart of the west German HV-signalling-system - at least from when it was installed time wise. Functionality wise, it is more similar to the Ks signalling system (which was the successor of both HV and Hl signals when Germany was reunited). Unfortunately, Wikipedia only has a German language article on the system, but there is more information: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hl-Signalsystem Let me know if there are more specific questions :)
     
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  4. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    What does this mean for the old consoles? Xbox One and PS4? Will there be restrictions on them?
     
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  5. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    More restrictions than next gen , but the game should still run fine . I can see DTG probably dropping support for last gen in next years update
     
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  6. Cd1990

    Cd1990 Active Member

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    Wouldn't be surprised, if HMA is anything to go by on current-gen then you can bet that the new routes will have scaled down service modes.

    This is why I'm going to be on the phone to my local game shop the moment the next lot of Series X pre-orders go live.
     
  7. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I think at some point we have to accept that times move on. I know it’s not always a guarantee people can afford the new tech but the old Xbox’s have been obsolete since the one x in all honesty.

    Hopefully we can all find a way to leave the old steam cars at home
     
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  8. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    The way Matt has been talking in the live streams it looks like they will be introducing a system where the player can choose which timetable layers are turned on at any one time. So in effect you will still be able to drive all the services but all of the services won’t be running on the line at the same time as the consoles won’t be able to cope. I should imagine AI only trains will be missing in parts too. This is what I expect to happen. I don’t know if anything else will be restricted beyond what we get now. Graphics wise I should imagine it will all stay the same while new consoles get options for higher settings.

    It’s a bit sooner than I thought but it looks like to get the most out of TSW going forward, upgrading to the newer consoles is going to be necessary. Because of the complexities of train simulators, having good hardware is always a good idea. If you think about it, the deal of getting three routes in one as one DLC points us in the direction of this being the testing phase of the new way of doing it, whatever it is that they come up with, both for new consoles and stripped down versions for old. I’m sure full details of how this will all work will be given prior to the release. I think while probably playable, TSW isn’t going to be a great experience on the old consoles any more. It’s been getting that way this year anyway and the game does need to develop without being restricted by old tech.

    It’s going to be a big investment for me, one that far exceeds the total amount of money I’ve spent on TSW but I want the full package, so I’m resigned to buying a PS5 as soon as I can, something I am doing solely for the purpose of getting the best out of TSW. The low frame rates on things like SPG and CRR are just about acceptable but all of that old content will be vastly improved for me and I want to join the ranks of people who talk endlessly about higher framerates being better, rather than teasing them online saying it doesn’t matter. Other than the huge outlay for the PS5 and a 4K TV, and difficulty in actually getting my hands on the console, I see no downsides to upgrading and eventually I see everyone having to do the same. New content will rely on the higher capabilities, so I can’t see any other way. I know not everyone is in a position to afford the new consoles, certainly not until they start appearing second hand and even then it’s not going to be cheap.
     
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  9. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Besides, this is not only a concern for consoles owners. My old laptop is barely breathing. Sometimes I am happy when I have a dozen fps. 200% screen percentage? The game looks so much better but then... it is unplayable. It's not DTG's fault, they want to develop the product. It consumes computing power. I am afraid my poor Lenovo will not be able to handle BRD in full. I am also slowly thinking about buying something more suitable. I'm glad I haven't entered modeling yet :)

    I wonder what the numbers will be. 1.5 HMA. 2 HMA :o

     
    Last edited: May 26, 2021
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  10. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    There's no need to buy a next gen console off the back of an entirely conditional ("with the new generation we should hopefully be able to add more [traffic]"), that's nothing worth splurging money over if it's only for this game. Nothing in TSW's development is ever particularly revolutionary, to this day the biggest difference I can straight off tell between TSW2020 and TSW2 is the control scheme, that was the single biggest and most obvious change, everything else was small improvements to the overall experience.

    Of course it's entirely probable the next gen consoles as well as PC can and will do more, but how much more remains to be seen, I have not seen any cross-generation titles in which the newer gen version is some kind of revolutionary marvel over it's older brother, it's usually just a bit better optimized, smoother running and some nicer visuals, because unless you develop an entirely different version, everything under the hood stays the same, it's just about how the newer hardware can make use of it. Sure DTG might be a trail-blazer in this area... But it goes back to expectations, and whether you're willing to set them based on what DTG says rather than what DTG does.
     
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  11. helderbrincolas

    helderbrincolas Well-Known Member

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    Complety agree, it's ridicouless buying a new gen console only to play Tsw... people really are obecessed with this game, just save your money and when dtg stops suporting the game in last gen( in a couple of years), then buy a new gen
     
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  12. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    In matters of hobbies, it's like in matters of love. No compromises. There is no time to wait :D
     
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  13. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    At this time DTG will not be dropping support for older consoles.
     
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  14. paulmurphy_88

    paulmurphy_88 Well-Known Member

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    Lol, incredible back pedal after giving me LOVE in my post about ditching the old consoles, looks like you've got past the denial phase at least.
     
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  15. paulmurphy_88

    paulmurphy_88 Well-Known Member

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    https://giphy.com/gifs/e4Jyxh9zQjgnC
     
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  16. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Xbox have Forza Motorsport and Forza Horizon 5 soon in The next 1-2 years.
     
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  17. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Well I couldn’t recall what I said (so I looked it up) and it came from my position that has always been that if they release stuff for the now older consoles that they have to work on them, and also that’s where most of the players are. Up until recently we didn’t have any idea that they were planning to release potentially different versions for the new consoles. Nothing has been confirmed yet but it looks like the main development is moving towards the new consoles and potentially stripped down versions for the old consoles. As they are planning to release the Rush Hour DLC for the old consoles, they are not ditching them, and whatever they release on them must work, and if that means some content is a bit different then that’s how it has to be. I thought that it might have been another year before doing that but I must have dud batteries in my crystal ball or something. You were claiming that they must just ditch the old consoles altogether and all the players must buy the new ones to keep up because you had just bought one, and you did get a bit of grief on the forum for the way you said it.

    I want to be able to play the best version of the game at good frame rates with all the available content but have never wanted to buy a gaming PC to do it but now the newer consoles are fully supported and development is moving to fuller content for them, I really have to look into getting one, and that’s what the latest dev article has cemented in my mind that I am going to. Time has passed, more information has become available to me and I have changed my mind about waiting longer before taking the leap. Not really a back pedal, just a change of perspective but only for me, not everyone.

    Now, my comedy reply to your post saying that the old consoles should be ditched got me 54 likes, because it was funny and true. The point was that not everybody can afford the new consoles, and my eyes are watering at how much it’s going to cost me, so the old consoles (where the greatest number of players are) should still be supported, even if you and I have the newer ones (if I can get my hands on one). That is still true and is what DTG are doing, but the content may not be as good.
     
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  18. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully Riesa-Dresden does not come with such a system, seeing all the layers active at the same time is still a big part of the route, same for HMA. This could possibly be a deal breaker for me, unless NEC and the Brighton Main Line surpass by a lot my current expectations.
     
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  19. fakenham

    fakenham Active Member

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    Excellent article, really looking forward to this. Looks like DTG are upping the bar with this set of routes, what with more AI, accurate signalling, track ballast changes etc, all things that enhance the experience. And all for 25quid. Bargain, imo.
    I really hope they do the same with L2B, hopefully the signalling will be capable of realistic approach control (from red, etc)..
     
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  20. DeStijl

    DeStijl Well-Known Member

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    In the way I interpreted this, the player would have the option to turn on all of the layers, should they have a machine capable of handling them at a performance level that the player considers acceptable - why would you be opposed to this?
     
  21. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    No, Matt said Microsoft and Sony QA will not allow for a setting that if activated crashed your game or console. Only one layer at the time is allowed. Matt also said enhancements specific to next gen can only be graphical and not gameplay related.

    If I have the option to turn everything at once I'm 100% for this.
     
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  22. eurocityboy

    eurocityboy Active Member

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    That's a feature of the HL signalling system, which will be new in the game. HV and KS signals generally don't work like this, except in rare circumstances. They generally just show an advance aspect and then a main aspect. While not without flaws, DTGs has used them largely correctly.
     
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  23. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Nothing I'm reading here refutes my off stated view that, since the vast majority of console players will still be using older generation machines when the next upgrade arrives, DTG will have to make the game playable on the older consoles. Of course, a PS5 will always outperform a PS4 in terms of graphics and fps, just as a $5,000 PC will always outperform my 5 year old mid level machine. That doesn't mean I have to replace my PC in order to play the game. This is our hobby, our passion, so we'll always want the best we can afford (or the best we can't afford), and I won't hesitate when the time comes to upgrade. Of course, PC players have a couple of advantages. They can choose an infinite combination of graphics, audio and gameplay settings, and they can upgrade their physical equipment to some extent. But we can't forget that consoles are the foundation of the player base and that isn't going to change for many years, at least.
     
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  24. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Is it necessary to buy a 4k TV to play on a PS5? Just curious.
     
  25. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think it would be necessary but if the capability is there I might as well take advantage of it. The TV I currently have will stay where it is with the PS4 and Virgin TV box (which hardly ever gets used) and the PS5 will get set up in a different room. It’ll be worth getting a 4k TV because I’m having to buy a new TV anyway for the setup.
     
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  26. DeStijl

    DeStijl Well-Known Member

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    In the most recent article, it seemed pretty clear from the Devs talking about the new consoles having memory limits close to PC that they are planning to take advantage of that. I don't know that layers are considered a gameplay feature per se...
     
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  27. DeStijl

    DeStijl Well-Known Member

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    Of course it will be playable, in the same way that HMA is playable on consoles, i.e. without all of the layers that are available on PC.
     
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  28. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    For old generation consoles & low-end PCs, an option, I think. Always it is good to have a choice.
    No problem for turn everything ON :) ** if the hardware allows it
     
  29. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I was lucky enough to even find an Xbox Series X and there were some improvements to frame rate and some visual improvements which I was expecting to be honest hence why I wasn't surprised or overjoyed. Is it necessary at this moment to upgrade just for tsw2, no. Just as it is not necessary to own a 4K tv just to use a ps5/xbox series x.

    By the time Rush Hour comes out, I suspect most players will still be on last gen consoles and will still make up the majority of the player base. Therefore DTG should be able to provide the full capabilities of rush hour across all platforms especially with the optimization update that is supposed to come soon. If they can't do that then dtg would have technically lied to their customers considering what was said in the rush hour article and the first stream
     
  30. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    DTG I expect will continue to support PS4 and XBox1 so long as there is a substantial installed player base on last-gen. To do otherwise would be leaving money on the table.
     
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  31. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I hope you are right.
     
  32. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    So if I’m playing E.G. BRD , then I can choose which locos will layer ? If so then that sounds good
     
  33. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I‘m not getting into the entire argument going on right now, but as far as I know, that only applies to a PS4 game played on PS5 (or previously a PS4 game played on PS4 pro). In other words, by releasing a dedicated PS5 version, they‘re free of this restriction since they‘re separate games as far as Sony is concerned. Don‘t take my word for it, but that‘s my understanding. I‘m sure all of this will get clearer when we get closer to release :)
     
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  34. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully you are right it would be awesome if they were free to do whatever they wanted.
     
  35. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    Same for Xbox
     
  36. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know but it may be something like that but a choice of which included bits are enabled not a free choice of anything. If you think of HMA at the moment, the layers with the extra traffic are not there on console. If they make that route more optimised it may be able to handle one of the extra layers at a time, so there would be a new option where you would choose one of them, or it might be that you can decide not to have the ICE trains running so that you could have the freight layer enabled instead. It would be a system where you decide which of the included layers of services are enabled, whereas on more powerful machines they could all be enabled at once. This is just how I see it working on older consoles (and for less powerful PC’s if it’s introduced there too) but as of now it is just my interpretation of what gets said in streams coupled with the promise of much busier routes in the Rush Hour article and a dedicated release for new consoles coming. Nothing I say is actually definitely coming just an educated guess.
     
  37. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Starting to get excited for Rush Hour after reading this, assuming it lives up to the hype.

    I'll say for people who are on the fence about getting a Series X/PS5 that even with no upgrades by DTG, the game is already WAY better on Series X compared to base XB1:

    I have a 4k tv with VRR, so the bump in resolution and "smoothness" is quite nice in addition to the frame rate boost, which feels significant to me (i have no way to directly compare tbf). The best feature is extremely reduced loading times (i get about 45 sec- 1 min to boot up with all DLC installed vs 3-5 minutes before, not even kidding. Services load in in less than 30 seconds, and some are practically instantaneous).

    Overall it makes just about everything involved in navigating through the game so much more pleasant.

    The only downside I've experienced is now the issues that PC users have dealt with for so long are more noticable to me, namely distant geometry/textures/LODs, and, especially, shadow pop-in. Auto HDR helps with the garish lighting a bit, but hoping the next-gen version will have native support.

    Not sure how significant the improvement is compared to One X/PS4 Pro. I had a One X that died back in Sept, so i can say there is definitely improvement (especially with loading), but it's not fresh enough in my mind to give a fair assessment.

    FWIW i got my Series X in April after trying to buy a few times/week since launch. I did not use a scalper or any software assistance. Happened to be checking my email when i got one from Gamestop (i'm in the US) that they were releasing new stock that day. I was able to get one in my cart after about 50 page refreshes. Biggest tip i can give is have your payment details stored so you can checkout as quickly as possible. I had one in my cart at Walmart back near Xmas and by the time i entered my info, it was already out of stock.

    Good luck to all those trying!!!
     
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  38. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That's correct. If a game is sold as "for PS4" or "for XBox One," then everything in it has to run on the advertised platform. OTOH a game labeled "for PS5" or "for XBox X|S" can be a whole new game if the devs choose.
     
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  39. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Well, first of all, that would create 5 versions of the game instead of the current 3, which would have to be tested for each patch, update and dlc, which, to quote DTG Protagonist, "is no small amount of work". Secondly, aren't newer consoles already taking advantage of better graphics and higher frame rates? Any additional content would have to be made available to all players, otherwise, you might encourage the kind of contentiousness that seems to simmer between console and PC. Better to have just one game that we can all play at the level that our tech allows. Plenty of PC players have low spec machines which require them to make compromises, but that doesn't include sacrificing content. Everybody should have access to the same content.
     
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  40. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    The second hand price is currently sat at around £700 in shops, not sure what it is on eBay at the moment, as soon as that second hand price drops the availability for new consoles should increase.

    Seems that too many people spent their rent money on a new console and are now having to cash them in, if you go to a CEX now you’ll probably see a few in, so hopefully those who want one should soon get their hands on them without having to pay an extra £200/300 to do so.
     
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  41. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    But according to the Rush Hour announcement, that is precisely what DTG are planning to do.
     
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  42. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I think there's quite a lot of ambiguity in the FAQ's. I can see how the text would support your interpretation, but it also says that "gameplay features will remain the same across all versions of TSW2", and only that PS5/XBox X/S players will see faster loading times and higher frame rates, which they already are seeing I think. You can call it a " new version", but as I read it, it doesn't contain any additional gameplay. I could be wrong, but that's my take.
     
    Last edited: May 27, 2021
  43. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    That’s what I originally thought but now you have the devs who are currently making the route saying in an official article it is going to be much busier because the limits of the old consoles have gone with the new consoles coming out, and hopefully they can cram every service there is in reality into the route releases. That indicates differences in how much traffic there is on different consoles as the old consoles won’t handle that, and add that to what Matt, the senior producer, has been saying about introducing a system where layers can be turned on up to what your console can handle, and you get the same gameplay presented in different ways on the different consoles. If it happens of course, but that’s the indication the words the devs are using is giving me. I’m sure we will know all the facts before the release, and it may or may not make everyone a happy bunny.
     
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  44. schorni

    schorni Well-Known Member

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    In the case of HMA, they did not write this in the reports beforehand either. There was talk of the HMA route offering a lot of traffic and possibilities due to the old DLC. The fact that this does not work at all on the console was not written and is also not in the store today. So you should be careful with what DTG says beforehand.
     
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  45. LuPatrenX

    LuPatrenX Member

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    In their defense though, they did tell us prior to the route coming out that that was gonna happen.

    Secondly, everyone SHOULD have expected that to happen sooner or later. I remember saying last year that we will only get increased timetables and the like because of PS5 and XSX hardware (and, naturally, got pushback because due diligence and critical thinking comes after emotion and the need yo complain here) only to get vindicated. Because "the customer always being right" is more important than "there are limits on these machines that we can do absolutely nothing about". If someone wants to know how much of a route console players can actually enjoy, there are reviews at the bottom (something else people should look at before purchasing) that spill the beans. Due. Diligence. Saves. Money.

    It should have been EXPECTED that this would eventually happen. Because every machine has limits and consoles are no exception. The alternative (in order to keep things equal) are more empty routes. If we are going to get what we've wanted since Day 1, last gen consoles will have to get left behind by summer 2022. You want to experience the full thing, get a current-gen console. No way around it. (not that I have one yet lol)

    Is it fair? Yes. Because hardware limitations. Either some get left behind or everyone continues to get subpar routes. It's 2021. Time for TSW to move in the direction originally intended.
     
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  46. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I just don’t get why everyone expects this to run at full pelt with all the traffic bells and whistles on a mega drive.it’s 2021
     
  47. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    The weakest link in chain is the problem, these being the Xbox One and PS4, so it might as well be 2014.
     
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  48. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    And once MS and Sony get their acts together and actually make enough units to actually be able to buy one in a non auction fashion it would very feasible that there is higher detail then the older generation consoles.

    So for them to get the ball rolling on that makes perfect sense.

    You want to be ahead of the curve not behind it.

    They don't tell us every little thing they do behind the scenes. And why should they its nice to be surprised every so often.
     
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  49. docsnyder1911

    docsnyder1911 Well-Known Member

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    The problem is if DTG would do that, they would let the most of their customers behind. And with that they would damage their income dramatically. If next gen consoles are available for everyone in 2022 or 2023 with fair conditions DTG will move forward to them more. Probably. Otherwise they would make a big part of their best customers not so much happy. :)
     
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