Train Sim World 2 - London Commuter First Screens!

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Jamie, Sep 17, 2021.

  1. Northerner

    Northerner Well-Known Member

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    Looks fantastic (minus the strange cranes and Reigate) and there definitely seems to be plenty of traffic in those screenshots!
    The office block next to the platform on the left is also missing with a couple of garages in its place. I hope they've just not finished the modelling of the Reigate area yet and the wrong buildings are just place holders as being right on the platforms they're very noticable.
     
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  2. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Well, you might've just guessed the mastery scenery reward :D
     
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  3. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it will be the Mastery reward
     
  4. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    If the biggest complaint is how a crane arm looks :o then I would say DTG have just a fantastic job so far!
     
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  5. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    Had they left the best wine for last?
     
  6. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I've had a gander on google maps and can't find anything that close, but then Reigate also has a level crossing which doesn't seem to be in the picture DTG posted and that's a big thing to "miss"
     
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  7. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Looking great so far- couldn't care less about cranes tbh.

    My only wish is that the night-lighting from Dresden was coming to BML....but maybe someday.

    Looking forward to release date!
     
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  8. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    6021448151_97145331be_b.jpg
    TSW2_RushHour_LondonCommuter_firstscreens2.jpg

    Wow, that doesn't bode well for the rest of the route. That is shockingly inaccurate for Reigate (and I can confirm it is Reigate by the times on the PIS). Completely wrong building asset but also where is the office building on the left in the car park and the grass on the platform? Looks like these are the same scenery and asset builders as from SEHS. Complete contrast to the beautiful and detailed German routes we have been getting recently. Very disappointing. Extra time definitely does not mean extra quality where DTG are concerned.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
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  9. WonterRail

    WonterRail Well-Known Member

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    So with our first screenshots, I want to use this opportunity to ask the most important question regarding this route...

    …just how many services will this route have?

    I'm sure you also have this question in your mind as well, and this question has been asked on so many other routes we have been getting in TSW2. But this case is so fascinating as this timetable has the potential to be bigger than anything else we have been getting in TSW so far, it even mentions in the article that the timetable for this route is the biggest to date, so now the question would be, how big will it actually get?, and further still, what would it actually consist off?

    So in the past couple of weeks, I have going back through archival timetables to try and piece together just how many services this route will have. Now this is not an exact guess, nor will the final number you will see at the end include any depot services or empty stock movements, but it be a general rough idea of what we could expect from this routes timetable. To work out how many services this route could have, I used a selection of Southern's 2019 Summer timetables downloaded from DPSimulation's timetable archive, and by (I know it's not the most reliable source but here me out on this) going onto Wikipedia and then copy/pasting the link into the Wayback Machine and going back to 2019 to get the trains per hour for the services that we could be getting in this route. I went back to 2019 specifically as this is the time period that I think this route will be set in. The result that came from all of this was quite interesting, do you remember the article that DTG released back at the end of June that talked about making 24 timetables for this route and one of the images shown was a testing image that showed a number of 686 services and it was later revealed that A: It included AI services and B: This was not the final number? Well, after going through all of this, you will find that number might be closer to the actual number of drivable services than you think. It might even be more, as you will see....

    Gatwick Express

    So from going through the archive timetable for Gatwick Express services in 2019, I was able to piece together that there will be roughly 143 of these services. These services, starting at London Victoria, would consist of the following.
    • 2 tph to Gatwick Airport (Running non-stop).
    • 2 tph to Brighton (Stopping only at Gatwick Airport with some services stopping at peak times at either Haywards Heath, Burgess Hill, Hassocks or Preston Park).
    I should also mention here for future reference that the tph is for trains in both directions the service takes.

    Southern

    Now these will probably make up the grand majority of the services on this route. I'm sure that every time of this service runs on this route will be feature, but for this part, I will only be focusing on the services that I think for sure will be drivable. So by going through all the archive timetables, I was able to piece together that the number of Southern services on this route could be (drum roll please)…

    610!

    Yeah, that could be quite a lot of services. To break it down, it would consist of:
    • London Victoria-Brighton 2 tph (Full line runs).
    • London Victoria-Haywards Heath/Preston Park 1 tph for each (These are the services that go to Littlehampton and I'm putting these destinations just in case Hove is not featured which doesn't look likely. I mean, it was mentioned in a image on that timetable article did back at the end of June, but we will see).
    • London Victoria-Haywards Heath/Wivelsfield 1tph for each (These are the services that would join East Coastway at Lewes and then travel on to either Eastbourne or Ore).
    • London Victoria-Three Bridges 2 tph (These services turn off at the later station down to Horsham, where the train actually divides with one half going to Bognor Regis and the other half going to either Portsmouth Harbour or Southampton Central).
    • London Victoria-Reigate 2 tph (Full line runs along the branch to Reigate).
    • London Victoria-East Croydon 2 tph (Turn off at the later station towards East Grinstead)
    • Clapham Junction-East Croydon 1 tph (This depends on whether the 377/2 comes with this route although I did see in one of the images a 377 going into a platform that these services come from. But regardless, these services start at East Croydon, travel to Clapham Junction and then turn off towards the West Coast Main Line and eventually terminate at Milton Keynes Central)
    • London Victoria-Selhurst 4 tph (I saw an image in the article that show a service that had this destination on it's board, but these services would turn off at the later station towards either Sutton or Epsom Downs)
    Now of course there could be more of these kinds of service that I haven't mentioned here, but this shows what I think will be the main Southern services on this route.

    Great Western Railway

    Now this is a big one. Do I feel that we are getting these services using the Class 166 from Great Western Express? I have a good feeling that we will as with the Reigate branch being featured, this will open the door for all of these kinds of services to be featured here. As for how many of these services we could get, I have calculated roughly about 70 services. Starting at Reigate, they happen twice per hour. One just travels the short distance to Redhill and the other does the same and then reverse down the main line non-stop to Gatwick Airport where the train terminates.

    The Overall Service Number

    So if we add together all the numbers that I have shown here, I reckon that this route will have a total service number of 823, more than any other route to date and almost twice the amount of the previous record holder, Hauptstrecke München – Augsburg at 427. Now like I said before, this number does not include any depot moves, or empty stock services which could inflate the number even further, maybe into the 1000s, but we will just have to wait and see on that.

    Any other bits?

    As for other bonus bits that could further enhance the timetable, we already have Southeastern AI services coming out of London Victoria, as seen by the 465 in one of the images. I'm not going to do the number of services for these as they are only AI services, but I can tell you that there are normally, on an off-peak time, 11 Southeastern trains coming in and out of Victoria per hour, which would add quite a bit of traffic in that section of the route. I also do hope that the depot services to Carriage Holding Sidings near Victoria will be drivable.

    The final two things we could expect to see on this route are Railtour services from Northern Trans-Pennine (kind of an essential at this point) and freight services. For the later, I would expect it to come from East Coastway using the EWS Class 66 and JNA wagons that come with the route, but I would also like to see freight on this route using the DB Class 66 and HKA Hoppers that come with Great Western Express. I mean, if you are adding GWR services using that route, you might as well use the opportunity to add freight using the locos and wagons that also come with the route.

    So overall, I really look forward to see how this route turns out. The first images we've seen look good and it promises to be unlike any other timetable we have seen in TSW2 so far. Will we see the amount of services that I have roughly estimated? I guess we will just have to wait and see for the first preview stream to find out.

    Now do feel free to point out any service that you think will be featured here that I have may of missed. Plus, I would love to know just how many services do you feel this route will have.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
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  10. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Hold on: those pictures can't both be Reigate. They're two different stations.
     
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  11. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    That's what I thought but the timings and operators on the PIS on platform 2 in the screenshot line up exactly with the times of the real life timetable. Would absolutely love to be proved wrong though.
     
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  12. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    But then the station sign in the other pic says Reigate!
     
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  13. kenobi#1878

    kenobi#1878 Active Member

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    Bar Reigate looking, in the nicest way possible, wrong, the rest of the route so far is looking lovely.
    And those new Destination displays look great. Also scrolling panels! well done, it better have loads of services
     
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  14. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    That building asset looks like a block of flats and the people who live there must be really happy with being so close to the station (as in being the station), even if the people on the middle floor have their windows completely blocked by the station canopy. Affordable housing can’t be that bad in Reigate. It must be a stand in, but if so, why use that picture in an article. It’s going to be spotted. There were misplaced buildings in the Boston route with one station overpass just ending in mid-air, so these things can make it to the release if there’s no time to finish them properly.
     
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  15. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Not the end of the world, but even the yellow line on the platform is wrong.

    DTG has said many times that they use lots of photos to reference stations/signs/train models etc.

    I’d be very interested in seeing which photos DTG used for this station as it’s not the one other forum users have posted. To be fair, what they’ve modelled looks great, but it’s not Reigate.
     
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  16. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    Why such a detailed building for a stand in though? Seems an utter waste of time and effort.
     
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  17. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    I remember in an article a while back there was a screenshot of the service pattern , and it said 686 - but I can’t confirm whether the dlc will have that amount
     
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  18. flirt745

    flirt745 New Member

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    Have been looking forward to this route for a while. The screenshots look great. :)
     
  19. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    If you want the Class 465 layer, you only need to buy the locomotive DLC. For some reason, since the launch of the Summer update (4.26), one no longer is required to own the base route to use the respective locomotive DLC. Others have reported this, and I have tested it myself by using the DB BR 101 on other routes when HRR is uninstalled. That did not use to work in 4.23!

    Cheers
     
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  20. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That is a VERY interesting development. So this means that, for example, I could purchase and run the 182 without owning Rapid Transit?
     
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  21. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    Really ? Will you not get a message through the in-game store telling you to buy the route
     
  22. Northerner

    Northerner Well-Known Member

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    That's a good point, you'd probably also model the building and canopy together, though the canopy in the screenshot looks quite different from the one in real life so is probably an asset reused from elsewhere.

    Looking closer, the glass canopy, stairs down to the subway to the other platform and down to the carpark are also completely missing from the left hand platform. The more I look, the more it makes me think that they can't possibly be finished modelling the station and it makes me question what the other stations are like if this is the one they chose to show a close up of.

    Edit: Thinking about it, it's probably better to look for what in the screenshot actually looks like Reigate, the only thing I can see that's vaguely similar is the footbridge at the far end.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
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  23. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, it does now appear to be the case. However, I don't think this is intended, as DTG wants each locomotive to be supplied with the advertised training and scenarios. Buy the 182 and try it out. Worst case scenario, if it doesn't work you can immediately refund it through Steam during the 2 hour window.
    No message at all. It just lets me pick it from the timetable menu as usual.

    EDIT: I am on PC (Steam). I have no idea what the behaviour might be on other platforms.

    Cheers
     
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  24. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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    I would like an official statement from DTG on this DTG Natster
     
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  25. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

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    Does that mean it will have the new night lighting?
     
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  26. CrAzZyKiLLa

    CrAzZyKiLLa Active Member

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    TrainSim-Matt Can you confirm or deny this is Reigate station? Or explain what is going on here with the inaccurate station or placeholder buildings? So this can be put to bed or addressed before release? :)
     
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  27. thundergaming11

    thundergaming11 Well-Known Member

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    Excited for this but this will no doubt be one of the heavily criticised routes should there be anything wrong... So far we have a discombobulated crane and a council flat transformed into a station... Not really good angles to show off, okay its "first screenshots" and a "wip" but come on guys and girls :D looking forward to the details of what layers will be included and how many services.
     
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  28. First capital connect

    First capital connect Well-Known Member

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    I would like to ask if West croydon is involved in this route as it is a short journey from norwood junction and selhurst
     
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  29. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure the official statement, if they would bother to give one at all, is that such behaviour is "not recommended or supported."

    Cheers
     
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  30. CrAzZyKiLLa

    CrAzZyKiLLa Active Member

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    1) Nat is on holiday this week
    2) Loco DLC Have historically always required their respective route to be able to work.
     
  31. First capital connect

    First capital connect Well-Known Member

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    The reason for this is because it would allow us to use a 455 (if made) in game
    From Victoria to West croydon which they run along with the 377s
    You get about 4 tph going from victoria to West croydon which are run from my knowledge evenly by 455s and 377s
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
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  32. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    One of the things that had me anxious about this route, the shortage of trains to create the "rush hour", has apparently been assuaged.
    That just leaves the night lighting as a potential! spoiler.
    There are obviously some cosmetic errors that might interfere with immersion, but both Boston and Dresden have those and are still eminently playable.

    I'm always disappointed when a route is released without freight services. I'm pretty sure the TS version had some.
    Are there any loco hauled trains, or is it strictly 3rd rail emus? Again as in TS.

    Like many of us, I've already paid for the route, so I'll look forward to seeing it on my own display. I'll largely bypass the streams because, as with Dresden, they never seem to do justice to the actual route.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2021
  33. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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    I apologize, I didn't know that
     
  34. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Probably relatively minor to most people but why have DTG used Southern station branded platform clutter here at Clapham Junction? Such as the lamp posts in SN colours?

    Clapham Junction is managed by Network Rail, therefore the signage and branding would be in their colours and visuals. I really hope they haven’t used SN style branding for station names for here and Victoria.

    Luckily for us PC users, I should be able to fix this via a mod.

    7763F52F-85B0-41AE-8092-C0DC62CE76E8.jpeg
     
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  35. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    Since nothing along those lines has been announced (and I would expect this to be announced heavily), I would doubt that. And I guess owning the route is not the same as having it installed, so maybe that is where this misconception might originate, just guessing. Or as others said, it is something along the lines of porting routes from Steam to Epic or vice versa, which is debatable ;)
     
  36. eire007

    eire007 Active Member

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    This is how it works.

    DTG Announcement = :love:
    DTG pix of route and wonderful descriptions of route = :love::love::love:
    Release and downloading = :love::cool::love::cool:
    Actual Gameplay/route bugs = :(:(:mad::mad:
    DTG Response = We are sorry :D:D:D
    Matt’s Response to major bugs = ;);):D:D
     
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  37. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    I'd guess that's a licensing issue most likely
     
  38. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    That wouldn’t make sense as they’ve used NR branded material in both GWE and GCC. I think this is purely down to lack of attention.
     
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  39. RailFan97

    RailFan97 Member

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    I'm fairly certain it will. The screenshot of Reigate station shows a departure board that appears to confirm it.

    1st London Victoria
    2nd [doesn't show but likely to be Redhill or Gatwick Airport]
    3rd Terminates Here

    The order trains operate at this station would suggest the 2nd train is a through service to either Redhill or Gatwick Airport.
     
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  40. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    Most likely Reading, actually, as the screen is on the Westbound/Down platform.
     
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  41. Tay95

    Tay95 Well-Known Member

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    Bl**dy excellent screenshots! So hyped for this route
     
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  42. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    Really excellent screenshots for the level 10 mastery 1 scenery tile should be London Skyline or the Battersea power station
     
  43. markhazeldine

    markhazeldine Well-Known Member

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    First impressions are that Victoria approach looks pretty good. Clapham looks ok (there are some inaccuracies, but it's broadly alright). Reigate looks terrible. The "Reigate-gate" saga continues it seems! DTG, please make a custom station model for Reigate. The poor people of Surrey deserve better. haha. But seriously, using a block of flats better be a place holder or I'm going to wonder if you guys have a screw loose! On the positive side, I'm pleased that the 387 looks good, and that the 465 can be used as AI. I suppose it's too much to hope for to get 455s or SWR stock as AI??
     
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  44. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    If it’s an already existing asset then it could just be placed there in a matter of moments. Whatever the reason for it being there, or it being that particular asset, it looks daft. The cranes look daft too, so the ‘work in progress’ might mean it this time round.
     
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  45. surreychuff#3060

    surreychuff#3060 Member

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    I think it looks awesome and it’s really going to add to the immersion that they’ve included the southeastern layers to build up the AI busyness: love it, well done
     
  46. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    There isn’t much regular freight on the BML besides the at most once a day aggregates train to/from Newhaven
     
  47. trainsimfan94

    trainsimfan94 Member

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    where does it say in the game pic that it is reigate??
     
  48. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    It quite obviously is meant to be Reigate. I can’t think of any other station in or around the BML that has 2tph starting and terminating on a 2 platform station.
     
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  49. jackthelad258

    jackthelad258 Active Member

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    I would accept a delay in the release of the BML if DTG were able to fine tune or tweak any bugs and/or fixes that need to be made before it is released. If the BML route is released say next week for example and it is full of bugs then it would look bad for DTG. Let’s hope this is will not be the case.

    I know DTG have said the BML and ECW will not be connected but if DTG were somehow able to find a way to connect the two lines together, either directly via Lewes or indirectly at Brighton i.e. finish a BML service to Brighton and then able to take a ECW service from Brighton as some Southern drivers are booked to do this in real life.
     
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  50. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    It's definitely unintended. I remember trying this before in the old version with RT and the 182, and in 4.23 the 182 would not show up in game if RT was not installed. I have doubts that owning it makes any difference, because the game can only read the .paks that are installed. It doesn't know anything else.

    If you're doubtful, try it yourself and see if it works.

    EDIT: I can actually try it myself with a TVL locomotive DLC when I get home. But I believe it works regardless because several people who mistakenly bought the DB BR 101 (but don't own HRR) found it to suddenly work after the update.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
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