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Train Sim World 2 - London Commuter First Screens!

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Jamie, Sep 17, 2021.

  1. JimbobQ

    JimbobQ Member

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    I also do hope the timetable cutoff isnt directly midnight, and instead is around 2/3am as there are plenty of services/depot runs that start before midnight that run well past midnight.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
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  2. Train Sim 9723

    Train Sim 9723 Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts from the article are that I’m glad to see they haven’t missed an opportunity of putting in the 465’s and I assume the 375’s from SEHS as layers onto their route, looking forward to hearing more on these In the next article. The new 387’s are looking good and nice to see PIS screens being continued to work after a lot of issues I’ve noticed with NRD (hoping they get fixed in the update coming for that route)

    I have a bit of a concern regarding what I think is Reigate station that has been picked up by others.
     
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  3. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    I have mixed feelings. For a route that is supposedly designed to look best in the summer, it really doesn't look much better than anything we've already gotten in the game.

    Reigate is VERY concerning. I sincerely hope it's just a placeholder, but if it is then why show it in a screenshot? If they botched what is a relatively small station on the line, then I dread to think what stations like East Croydon or Gatwick Airport will look like, let alone Victoria...

    I'm glad they finally fixed the comically large font on the 377 destination screen, but there's something about the proportions of the 387 that feels off to me. Obviously it's far from an ideal angle, so we'll have to wait and see. It's definitely not as bad as the front of the Class 395 in TSW2, which is so bad it genuinely sometimes puts me off driving it.

    On a more positive note I'm glad to see SEHS and probably GWE layers present. Victoria will genuinely feel like a major station with that much traffic. Obviously I'm excited for the huge timetable, but I wanna know what this route brings to TSW2 as a whole. Boston Sprinter gave us improved Winter weather and Riesa Dresden gave us improved night lighting, so what does BML bring to the table? As I said at the beginning of the post, this summer weather looks no better than what you'd find on East Coastway.
     
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  4. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    We need to bear in mind that the Reigate branch was announced a while after the BML was announced , so there may not have been as much time for development
     
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  5. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    It’s 1.8 miles.
     
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  6. elarthur

    elarthur Well-Known Member

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    I hope I am correct but if this is indeed Reigate as it appears to be, we need to note the bottom corner of the shot where it clearly states 'Work In Progress '. Likely there are still final adjustments to be made.
     
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  7. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    Things have (almost) never changed drastically from those preview screenshots, and this is not a small insignificant change, so that is how it will be released. I would say SEHS with the fence was the only exception so far, and it was not done properly either.
     
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  8. elarthur

    elarthur Well-Known Member

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    If not being worked on prior to release, perhaps it will be worked out later as it is not at all correct in this image. Time will tell.
     
  9. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This ultimately lies down to using the same model as the ECW 377 uses, which is inaccurate from the get go. Same goes for the 375. The model proportions are off, making it look too wide. This issue won’t be fixed until DTG use a new model of the Electrostar.

    The most noticeable inaccuracy is the curvature of the body around where the lights are.

    A quick comparison below shows the the model has been built too wide, making it look ‘fat’
    25F9D673-6026-4899-8731-10A8BC714C6A.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
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  10. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    How did they manage to get it wrong? They must be fibbing when they say they model the trains accurately. Clearly not in this case. Sigh.
     
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  11. elarthur

    elarthur Well-Known Member

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    No West Croydon on this route. You 'might' see AI go off to a portal but nothing more.
     
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  12. elarthur

    elarthur Well-Known Member

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    Based on overall layout it is unlikely to be anywhere else on the route.
     
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  13. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    I don't see it.
     
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  14. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    It’s off. No doubt about it. Multiple people have been mentioning it since ECW was released so it’s nothing new.
     
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  15. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    Much more noticeable in the cab tbh
     
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  16. TheFirstOnly200

    TheFirstOnly200 Member

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    At least they tried to get the windows accurate as possible
     
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  17. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Active Member

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    I don't see it either. The numbers look to be the same size, same amount of gap between and beside them. Same number of panels in the door, same height above the frame. Yes that upper light is very slightly different, but looks fine to me. But then again, I'm not expecting a molecule by molecule clone down to dirt on the windshield.
     
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  18. SprattyHeath

    SprattyHeath Well-Known Member

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    The other bit that is also wrong is the shape of the destination box on the non-drivers side, it should be more of a square shape than a rectangular shape, not sure how you can miss something like that.
     
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  19. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Seeing as Electrostars run right through Chatham (the location of DTG's headquarters) you'd have thought they had plenty of opportunity to get more than enough reference material to get the proportions just right, yet somehow they haven't.

    It perplexes (and tbh infuriates) me that they're able to create wonderfully detailed routes for Germany and the US, yet when it comes to routes in their own backyard like SEHS (and I'm beginning to worry BML), they mess it up.

    As a side note, I'm willing to bet they haven't bothered to include the different beeping sounds for the doors opening on the 387 (which sound different from the 377). I'd love to be pleasantly surprised, but the fact I'm not sure speaks volumes as to what I expect from DTG.
     
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  20. RailFan97

    RailFan97 Member

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    I always find it really disheartening to see negative comments about minor details, when overall the route looks excellent. I think it's unreasonable to expect everything to be perfect. Train operating companies spend thousands of pounds on realistic simulators for driver training, considering the most you'll pay for this will be £24.99 I don't think it's fair to make such comparisons. As somebody who has been playing since the original Rail Simulator release, it's amazing to see such realistic routes. It's a far cry from the Oxford to Paddington route in the original game :D. I can't wait to play.
     
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  21. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe we are too harsh, but Reigate station literally looks like a completely different station. DTG have shown that they can create wonderfully detailed routes, so when we don't see that same level of quality people well complain. I too will probably enjoy the route anyway, but I still want it to be the absolute best it can be.
     
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  22. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    I genuinely can't see the differences either, perhaps it is there but it's soo incredibly subtle that it could just be chalked up to funny camera angles and what not. The only inaccuracies I could discern is the different dimensions for the display board and the shape of the LED fixture that's above the door.

    The scenery issue with the cranes and Reigate station building are much more apparent in my opinion, and are the things that need attention. It just screams of the poor scenery quality of SEHS, which simply cannot happen again.
     
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  23. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This is what I was thinking just from the initial screenshots. Hopefully Thursday’s stream will prove me wrong but I’m certainly not getting the same high quality feel that Glasgow Cathcart gave.

    That route was very well built, with attention to detail and custom assets made, both big and small.
     
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  24. Northerner

    Northerner Well-Known Member

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    I would normally agree and I can usually ignore small details in a great looking route, but I'm with james64 on this one. Reigate is simply not Reigate in that photo, very little is even remotely similar to the real thing and I think it's pretty damning when people can't even tell which station it is meant to be.
     
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  25. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Hang on- there is a fundamental confusion that needs to be sorted so that everyone can whinge from the same page.
    There are two photos of two stations. Only one can be Reigate. And one in fact is Reigate, because the station placard clearly says "Reigate," The other one is not Reigate, and I don't care what one deduces from the PIS board.
     
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  26. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    DTG: How many AI trains do you want on BML?

    Community: Yes! :D

    Well, what can I say, this brings my excitement levels up for my most anticipated route ever! Despite some rightly pointed out flaws, my main focus will be how good the gameplay and timetable will be initially before any other worries creep in.

    Extremely pleased with multiple things, namely:
    - That DTG have stated this will be the busiest timetable ever, plus the addition of extra layers and inclusion of Southeastern at Victoria is fantastic. There is one thing that slightly concerns me though is the wording saying it will be an incredibly busy route at certain times of the day. With this being BML, I'd like to know what they mean by this, in theory it should be incredibly busy all day.
    - Looks like the inclusion of Metro services with Sutton shown, this perhaps excites me the most as will would be great to drive short stopping services on stations between East Croydon and Clapham Junction while watching the fastline traffic whizz by!
    - Scrolling PIS.
    - Actually to see the Class 377/1 numbers being used (please allow this to be used on ECW!).

    With 29 stations being confirmed, I'm also intrigued if all will be used. Judging by the image of the unobstructed view of Battersea Powerstation from the railway, it seems the route is set a couple years back. If so, will the timetable reflect that? For example, Southern used to operate Horsham-London Bridge via the slow line stations (such as Horley, Salfords, Earslwood etc), today Thameslink operate Horsham-Peterborough (which goes via London Bridge). Just a thought.

    Bognor Regis and Portsmouth/Southampton services from Victoria don't travel via Redhill as they use the Quarry Line. These would be driven as far as Three Bridges (stopping at Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Gatwick and Three Bridges) before diverging down off towards the Arun Valley Line.
     
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  27. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    I think for me it's that there is no consistency in the quality of routes that DTG releases. They can release routes like Cathcart or Dresden that have clearly had a lot of attention to detail lots of custom assets, and then other routes like SEHS or LGV where there are glaring sections with missing scenery/incorrect scenery (HS1 section) or buildings and stations that look absolutely nothing like their real world counterparts. The gold standard for the quality we know DTG can deliver is very often the German routes with Dresden and Munich and to some extent Hamburg being wonderfully modelled. It's just so frustrating when just a few weeks ago we were drooling over how beautiful the Dresden route is and yet a route that is practically on DTG's doorstep is looking, initially at least, quite shoddy. DTG decide which screenshots to release and the fact they have chosen to release a picture of Reigate that is clearly not remotely representative of the real Reigate has me really worried for the rest of the route. Do they put less time into UK routes, do they care less about them, is the team building UK routes less experienced? Who knows.

    It's impossible for me to get excited over anything DTG announce anymore as it can range from anything between beautifully constructed to horrendously constructed. London-Brighton is such a highly anticipated route (possibly the highest anticipated in TSW ever) that DTG really need to make sure they get it right or there will be a lot of disappointed people.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
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  28. WonterRail

    WonterRail Well-Known Member

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    Maybe if you actually read my big post on it, you will see that I did reference that and that number might actually be closer to the true service number than you think.

    Sorry, I did mean Three Bridges, that was just a typo. I've changed it so it shows the correct station now.

    Also, to add my bit on the whole Reigate saga, I think it's personally one of two situations.

    A: Reigate was thrown onto this route at the last minute, which meant DTG didn't have any time to make it properly, so they just made it using whatever they could get their hands on. Which would actually make sense as we didn't know it was going to be part of this route until that big season ticket announcement in July.

    B: The image we saw wasn't final and the correct station will be added before release. Now with this one, I know people will come at me and say "But nothing will change before release, Blah, Blah Blah…" but this has actually happened once before on Southeastern High Speed, and I don't mean by the adding of the fence along HS2, but rather the buildings that are behind Gravesend. I know this might not be on the same level as this, but here me out.

    If you go onto any store page for SEHS, whether that would be Steam, Epic, Xbox or PS, there is an image of a pair of 395's at Gravesend and what's behind the station looks like this:
    [​IMG]
    However, when the route did come out, the same area actually looks like this:
    [​IMG]
    What I want to try and say here is that scenery changes before release are possible, but I guess we will wait for the first preview stream to find out whether Reigate actually looks like what we saw in the article.

    …or maybe someone from DTG will respond to all this before then, that could that too you know.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2021
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  29. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    I didn’t realise I had to
     
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  30. Matěj Houska

    Matěj Houska New Member

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    Will the class 387 in TSW2 have a second power system? 25kv 50hz
     
  31. WonterRail

    WonterRail Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry, if you scroll down to the section called 'The Overall Service Number' that's where I put out the rough idea of what I think the total number of services on this route will be.
     
  32. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Not much point, since the BML doesn't have OHLE.
     
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  33. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    Ok thanks
     
  34. JimbobQ

    JimbobQ Member

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    Class 387/2's have Pantos installed even though they are mostly used on BML line. They originally were leased to TL and more recently were sent to help GWR when the Class 800 issues sprung up.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
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  35. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    So much for "It's never just a reskin"
     
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  36. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well when you have a company that says that they create "Highly Authentic Recreations of routes and locos" then that's the expectation they set on themselves. It doesn't matter if they decide to add something last minute either. The expectation is the same
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021
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  37. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    Pantograph should still be functional though
     
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  38. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to hazard a guess that the route-building team(s) that worked on Cathcart may have been assigned to Riesa-Dresden, as that route has wonderfully detailed scenery.
     
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  39. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Don't ask me why, but screenshots and streams do not do justice to the routes that finally show up on my computer. This was very evident with Boston and, particularly, Dresden. DTG do not seem to be able to live stream the routes without a lot of stuttering, sub par video and unexpected glitches. Maybe it's the medium or possibly because they never seem able to show a genuine release cut. Anyway, I'll reserve judgement until I have it to play. There seems to be a plethora of trains and activities so it should be "Rush Hour" busy. Only the lighting gives me pause. I don't much care about PIS screens and the shape of an emu's nose (they all look pretty generic). I hope there's a rail tour or two, I wish there was some freight and I'd like to have seen it in the '70's or '80's with some slam door action. But it is what it is and I expect I'll find plenty to enjoy, despite the cosmetic bugs that will no doubt get past all the testing.
     
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  40. trainsimfan94

    trainsimfan94 Member

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    Ts 20xx version of sehs looks wwaayyy better
     
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  41. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    You can probably see what I think londonmidland is getting at here a bit better:
    upload_2021-9-18_16-19-52.png
    (picture of the real one from HSTBEN1 on Twitter). They do look a bit wide in the game, even accounting potentially for zoom. In the pic on the right you can see the body is angled to go to the full width of the vehicle from the nose, whereas in the game it appears to just be a curve - and you can see the yellow seems to be curving much more sharply than the real one. Also the little LED light appears to be too high. I wonder if it's functional.
     
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  42. Tank621

    Tank621 Well-Known Member

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    It's kind of difficult to tell, lenses, zoom and whatnot can do funny things to the apparent shape of things. There are a lot of variables at play with these things, likewise for the in-game 'camera'.
     
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  43. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Given Matt has been streaming from an old laptop, via a restreamer also running teams I would say it's likely not great because they're trying to get that one machine to do too much (and of course DTG don't support laptops anyway!)
    Of course when you're sitting on your own machine which is only doing a few things (and not filtering through internet speeds, youtube or twitch filtering etc) it's going to be a lot less glitchy and much smoother

    I tend to use the preview streams to look at traffic levels, passenger levels, general route outlines etc. No way can I rely on a live stream to show definition and smoothness
     
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  44. Trainiac

    Trainiac Well-Known Member

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    The more I look at it the more it becomes obvious. It always makes me wonder what goes on during development that allows these inaccuracies to slip through even if they're minor. Someone must have compared the model to the real thing... Right?
     
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  45. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I get your point about the medium, but it begs the question: why use an " old laptop" to showcase your product. Don't tell me that a software company doesn't have dozens of high-end pc's lying around, even to use remotely. If I wanted to maximize sales and impact, I'd be using a rocket ship to run the stream.
     
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  46. Cameron's Gaming

    Cameron's Gaming Well-Known Member

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    I don't think Matt's laptop was even that old, it had a fault which meant it was permanently thermo-throttling itself which only showed up once Matt was doing the game and the stream and MS Teams, he's since bought a new one which is aparently on its way.
     
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  47. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Going back to the subject of Reigate, it's puzzling that the station looks correctly modelled for the most part on the TS 2021 version with the recently released Reigate extension for the London-Brighton route.

    Hopefully there will be as judging by real life. I saw this DB Class 66 at Clapham Junction in August (see below) pulling a very long load. From memory it was heading to Kent via the slow lines at Redhill. It was pretty decent as the 66 left a few minutes before and our Class 377 eventually had a race with it on the slow line - hopefully what we'll see on BML!
    IMG_20210807_194623.jpg
     
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  48. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    I think it could be the huge numbers on the 377/387’s making it look wider, a strange thing, I know.

    But look how small the numbers are in real life. I think this is adding to the illusion that the whole model looks wider.
     
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  49. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    I'm really glad I'm not the only one wondering this. When routes set in foreign countries are so high quality, yet ones on their own doorstep are rushed and inaccurate, you can't help but wonder if there's a lack of enthusiasm.
     
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  50. conniethunder

    conniethunder Active Member

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    I understand your point and no-one should make any assumptions like "Oooh, it looks great. Gunna buy this one".
    Are you watching it on a 40" TV at 1080p 10 feet away, or your 27" PC monitor at 4K 2 feet away, etc. How good is your eye sight?
    It's completely and utterly pointless to remark how good or bad it looks, because that lies purely in the eyes of the beholder.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2021

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