Train Sim World 2 - London Commuter South Downs Spectacle

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Oct 1, 2021.

  1. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    I quite agree Sbos, just read about only so many dlc issue on ps5, has certainly made me think about the other side of the coin. Good post :)
     
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  2. elarthur

    elarthur Well-Known Member

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    Very true. Seems like ignorance from gen9 players. Gen8 users still make up a healthy majority and if left out would ultimately mean dtg losing a mother load of sales profits that these users generate. Until both availability and price of ps5 consoles is at a reasonable level, gen8 users will continue to be a valuable market.
     
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  3. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Update from Matt (DTG) on Layers see below (taken from another thread but I think will have an impact on bml... again the silence.. think they are trying to have a go at a second timetable for bml based on what they are trying on Dresden for last gen...anyhow let's see...)

    "
    The "ICE-enabled" timetable is a copy of the *new* timetable, the only difference between the two timetables is the presence of the ICE layer, nothing else, so if you want your ICE, you don't have to sacrifice the updated services.

    The ICE was taken out because it's *by far* the biggest memory hog in the game with 7 unique vehicles in one single train (and that gets worse if you have any reskins - 7 reskins per ICE!).

    It's not that there's a lack of acknowledgement about issues caused by the 101 - it's more that having taken the ICE out, that should have had a lot more impact than removing the 101 would have ever done.

    We are still working to profile and find out what the next best steps are, the ideal goal is to get the ICE back in and alongside the 101 and everything working well, and that's what we want to aim for - but stability is the first goal.

    I'll update as we have more on this.

    On the topic of passengers on the Friday Brighton stream... they weren't built in the build that I had, it would have taken a few hours to get a new build with that in and rather than running with yet another dev build I ran with the build that the early access youtubers etc were going to be getting - basically close to a shipping build, so you could see it fully, albeit without the passenger numbers. There simply wasn't a way to get them enabled for the stream and this is why I was clear about it - they weren't turned off for the stream because they run badly on my PC, I literally dont have any way to turn them on and off short of a data change and a rebuild. I'm aiming for them to be in for the next preview stream.

    The BR 182 was removed due to incompatibility with the dosto's on Dresden - someone asks why not just use the ones it works with, the answer is that substitution is just changing the loco, it can't understand or swap out what works with what due to various issues or changes in the core implementations of each vehicle. It just says "this vehicle needs a min 4 axles, a min x horsepower, and can do a min x speed, must match these tags, and must be no longer than x meters long - who's up?" the only option was to disable the 182 from coming in for the time being in order to get everything running smoothly again.

    Hope this helps explain some of the goings on.

    Matt."
     
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  4. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    They already do. Try setting your graphics to "ultra" with a potato PC.
     
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  5. Train Sim 9723

    Train Sim 9723 Well-Known Member

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    i meant intentionally where you would receive nothing but a crash like Xbox one would just crash to home page

    whereas high end pcs wouldn’t just crash on that setting, but low would
     
  6. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Any one of which can cost at least as much - often more - as a whole 9th gen console. RTX GPUs cost an arm and a leg. Frankly, if you have to replace your motherboard, CPU and GPU (and probably power supply to handle it all), you really should just be buying a new computer (I will be in that boat before long)
     
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  7. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I just upgraded my Graphics card and Monitor and thought that was enough only now I find out my CPU is not supported by Win 11 despite passing every other test and the CPU coming out the same year as 8th gen, I7 7700k. Was looking forward to Win 11 but not now. I'll wait for next year sometime.
     
  8. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    We know that the game is poorly optimised, at least on console. PS5 players are reporting stuttering and crashes as well as PS4 players so to say that DTG can't do anything to improve things is absurd, not the other way round. The PS4 and Xbox One can run a wild west simulator (RDR2) and a open world city/gangster simulator without crashing (GTAV), I'm sure it should be able to run a train simulator.

    Matt has confirmed that the timetable with the ICE is NOT a reduced timetable so they should be able to hopefully do the same thing with the BML to at least give us the 166. The 4.26 upgrade actually took optimisation backwards according to Matt P, not 'maxed it out'.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2021
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  9. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    So running a simulator at PC low settings at 30fps is good? Good to see you have low standards, I wouldn't play anything lower than PC medium settings. I prefer not to play simulation games that can be released on the Switch, you know for realism.

    And if you think RDR2 looks good on older consoles you obviously haven't seen the Series X version. Because you wouldn't say that if you saw the detail difference. Even on TSW. On the new consoles it literally looks like you could touch the fabric and feel it. There are scratches on the windows and on signage. You play it once and I guarantee you will see that the old console struggles. The game is just that much more detailed and runs so much smoother.

    And driving on the LGV without witnessing the bridges being built in front of your eyes is a beautiful thing. Compare the 2 and then tell me that the older generation isn't struggling. And sure you know games like GTV and RDR2 that are over 2 years old is not really a comparison.

    Where is Flightsim? How about MLB the Show which runs choppy and slow on the old gen, but is like watching a real baseball game its so smooth on the Series X.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2021
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  10. Irish Train sim

    Irish Train sim Active Member

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    Give it a rest with the 166 folks, bigger and better fish to fry.
     
  11. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    The console players are a solid foundation of the customerbase for sure, i can immagine many of them are still playing on lastgen.

    So its likeley dtg is gonna develope alternate timetables for last gen.

    For example with london commuter, there are still 2 locos and more than 1000 services, so its far away from a bad experience.
    And i like the fact people with a powerful platform get a more powerful experience.

    Maybe dtg should give an announcement what they are up to. I guess with brighton to london they really came to a limit the first time. So just abandone last gen doesnt seem to be a solution to me.
     
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  12. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    What is wrong with the 166? Good train to drive imo.
     
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  13. Irish Train sim

    Irish Train sim Active Member

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    It is but for three stops?
     
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  14. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure the last gen wouldn't complain, even for three stops.
     
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  15. derailed#9363

    derailed#9363 Member

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    Would be good if we got the class 66 & 375 as well
     
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  16. Irish Train sim

    Irish Train sim Active Member

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    I am last gen
     
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  17. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    No we won’t :)
     
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  18. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Not long to go now! :) Going to be a great weekend.
     
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  19. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Looking forward to tonights stream. Got a sneaky feeling Matt may surprise us with the plan for a odd layer or 2 for last gen on a separated timetable like he has done for Dresden with the ice3 (not for launch but a month or so later). That aside I wish all the next gen users all the best over the next few days as I am aware you have some tough decisions (some of you) on ps5 in regards to dlc deletions due to a sony dlc cap.

    Respect to all & london victoria here we come :)
     
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  20. TimTri

    TimTri Active Member

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    Just started the route introduction on PS4 and the game immediately crashed upon departing from Victoria. Oh well!

    Edit: Worked well on the second attempt.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2021
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  21. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Class 387 Sound is Broken in Tunnel or under Bridges with some weird sound issues
     
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  22. Irish Train sim

    Irish Train sim Active Member

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    Have no issues deleting other routes/DLC! Can see myself on this one for a long time. Great work DTG!
     
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  23. ottselmaster

    ottselmaster Active Member

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    Welp ps4 gets ZERO other trains with all the dlc installed. Just tried it. Couldn't we at least get 1 or 2 services for the other trains?
     
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  24. Yoinkermcskoinker

    Yoinkermcskoinker Well-Known Member

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    I love short services, I would be more than happy to be able to play the 166 on my console (as I should have been able to :mad: )
     
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  25. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    TrainSim-Matt said on stream last night they are working on it and surprisingly said it might be a case of reducing "walk off" zones at the edge of the track to enhance memory for other services. (I had no idea the edge of the map had these memory sapping areas)

    Not sure which crew is currently looking at this for last gen, maybe Matt could confirm for us (pretty please with pink ears on top)
     
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  26. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    It would be the core team as it's not a preserved route
     
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  27. Trainmania100

    Trainmania100 Well-Known Member

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    Do we have an update on when an update will be released for PS5 ie the proper build? It's been out 16 hours now
     
  28. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Yes I am thinking the same. What is curious is that Matt wants to go for the edging first rather than a separate timetable, hopefully Matt will be able to clarify the thinking here in due course :)
     
  29. TrainSim-Matt

    TrainSim-Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Separate timetable wouldn't help here - just having the 166, 375 and 66 in its own timetable wouldn't be fun at all, surely? interested to know what you'd like to actually see in a separate timetable? It doesn't help here because the vast majority of the timetable (the 377 services) are in one place - so it's 1200 x 377 services, or not. I'd rather fix the memory issue to allow these trains in properly, because this route is clearly much more of a memory hog than previous routes have been (which somewhat isn't surprising because of the nature of it but... also... is something that still should be fixable somehow).

    Removing the collisions from outside the normally accessible map is really just removing things that detect the player where the player can never be - and yes, there's some decent gains to be made from removing that mostly in terms of memory.

    As regards "couldnt we have at least one or two" - it's the presence of at least 1 that causes the memory to be consumed, the minute you have 1, you may as well have 100, it makes almost no difference (though the 100 will sap some CPU, the RAM is gone regardless).

    Matt.
     
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  30. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you TrainSim-Matt that was extremely detailed and very useful to know.

    Will the collisions on the map/memory adjustments now stay with the core team in the weeks/months ahead or do you see this becoming a issue for Adam and the preseveration crew to look to engage with?

    Once again thank you for your time (appreciate I am pushing my pink ear luck here)
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2021
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  31. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Is this a limitation with the Engine?
     
  32. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    The engine is a part of it I assume, but since it's the models and textures taking up all of the space in the RAM, that's where the main issues lie.
     
  33. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    It would be a substantial amount of work to revise the models themselves to be more optimized (or to have somewhat simplified geometry), but maybe lower resolution textures for 8th Gen consoles would alleviate a small amount of the problem? Even a few megabytes here and there add up.
     
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  34. DominusEdwardius

    DominusEdwardius Active Member

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    The textures on the 8th Gen consoles are already massively downsized. A lot of them are either 256x256 or 512x512 on the older consoles whereas on PC they can be up at 2048 or 4096. There's really not much more you can downsize on them!
     
  35. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    For me it seems all of a sudden that the Ps4 and Xbox one were OK and now there is talk DTG want to leave them behind because they are holding back Next Gen. DTG seem to have 'teams' for everything so why not do a team for lest Gen? While it is commercially viable still.

    There are so many bugs in existing and older routes that the last Gen are still part of and if DTG concentrated of fixing those up everybody would be more happier rather than the message 'we have fixed but don't know when it can be released' or ignoring the fixes altogether.
     
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  36. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    Was it mentioned today that last gen support would be dropped ?
     
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  37. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Did I say 'dropped'? No, I said left behind as DTG are now concentrating on content that last Gen cannot handle apparently. Also I said 'there is talk' meaning that the forums are awash with the suggestion. So, no banana for you!
     
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  38. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    No they would be foolish to stop support now.

    Buy they basically said the older consoles can't handle all the new features they keep adding. And they probably have to cut back on things to make the game work as stable as possible. And as they have learned the older consoles are basically at the limit they can run. So going forward PC and the new consoles will get all the bells and whistles but the older consoles won't get them all. Most likely scaled back versions in order to keep stability so perhaps a 3/4 timetable, less passenger numbers, less layers, and lower texture detail for the locos.

    Basically they are going to cut things back to give the older consoles as much as they can not to effect performance. So start with the full build, then cut back textures see if that runs smoother, and if that doesn't try reducing the passenger, and so on until they have a stable build. So pretty much means they are putting in more work so that the older consoles will have an enjoyable experience. And for that the older gen users should be very grateful.
     
  39. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    It would maybe be an option for dtg to have a separate team to downgrade future dlc’s on last gen before they release so that next gen can run a game they are capable of , but last gen can run something that won’t break them
     
  40. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I think they said on stream they had a team looking into this issue, could be wrong though. But that said surely the writing is on the wall. They wouldn't dare come out at this time and say bye bye to last gen as it would cost them but they are gradually doing it imo, For the record I think there is plenty of life left in last gen.
     
  41. ottselmaster

    ottselmaster Active Member

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    Well the new addon wont have any services for London on last gen. So were paying for less content compared to next gen.
     
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  42. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    No your not, as JD said in the stream Thursday layers are a bonus.

    Surely you wouldn't be buying the DLC just for BML layers. Since the 313 is attached to ECW, meaning you can't even buy it unless you own ECW, I'm sure you would be buying it for the multitude of services that will be running on that route.

    Also its not that we don't get them, if you think about it once we upgrade to the 9th gen we don't have to buy the game or DLC again, it gets upgraded for free. So we will get them then.

    It's not DTG's fault that our hardware can't support the layers. In all honesty let them take out whatever they want I just want a stable game I can enjoy playing. Like my version of Madden 22 is just a rehash of last years, but the 9th gen has dynamic weather, and a whole bunch of new player animations, on field intros. None of which I get on 8th gen. So its not unheard of to have less features on an older console. It seems to happen everytime an new generation comes out.

    And in all honesty those with next gen consoles did pay $500 to upgrade their systems why shouldn't they get a bonus?

    When we upgrade we will get everything too and for free.
     
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  43. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    My only problem with Rush Hour now is that, despite how obvious it is, Dovetail still refuse to admitt that they failed to release rush hour 'All Summer Long'. Everyone knows it. Its obvious .Why don't they admit that Rush Hour was and did go into october? As soon as the BRD release date came I knew there was no way on Earth Rush Hour was finished before October
     
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  44. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    why does that even matter?

    Even if it does matter they’ve discussed it on stream anyway.

    2 of the routes are already back logged with fixes and your complaint is that they came out too late?
     
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  45. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Was acknowledged on stream by Sam
     
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  46. conniethunder

    conniethunder Well-Known Member

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    London Commuter was admitted that it reached us late after the 'summer' months, but we now also have no 'Rush Hour' passengers.
    That's a double fail.
     
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  47. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    Its a Triple Fail when you remember that Dovetail Said that all RH routes would be released at the Same Time
     
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  48. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Yes, because keeping them to that would work well... Hopefully they don't try to do it again but really... You're trying to close the gate not just after the horse has bolted, but after it's dead and visited the glue factory
    Frankly, anyone who believed after the beginning of August that all three routes would be "released in summer" need to look at their own thoughts rather than at anything DTG have said. In fact anyone that believes much that DTG say in relation to "when things will be coming" or "what's going to be included" probably do

    On other words, if you believe them, that's on you...
     
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  49. conniethunder

    conniethunder Well-Known Member

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    Some of us aren't 'DTG veterans' like yourself.
    We are slowly learning how much 'wool' is being pulled over our eyes ;)
     
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  50. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    Things get delayed all the time everywhere, and you typically don’t see companies admitting anything in relation to that. Like you said, everyone knows it. It is what it is.

    Besides, I dread to to think how BML would have turned out if they had kept to their announcement of a summer release. The extra time it got wasn’t even enough to make it good on all platforms.
     

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