Train Sim World 2 - London Commuter South Downs Spectacle

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Oct 1, 2021.

  1. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Gee, why don't DTG provide "the full experience to what new gen/pc players will get" for people still running Windows 3.1, DOS or Playstation 2?

    Technology moves on.
     
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  2. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    I'm absolutely astounded, from what I've seen seen so far of the stream and other details mentioned, this has completely surpassed my expectations positively. I mean even the inclusion of the those 377s that operate for Southeastern, fantastic detail!

    A big thanks to goes to Joe, and all DTG employees.

    I'm hoping Joe will bring his excellent skills to another Southern route in the future.
     
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  3. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I think PS4 players do have something valid to complain about here. You know a few months ago, the official word was that there would not be separate versions for last gen and current gen. Now last gen players, despite being the largest single subgroup in the community and the ones who set TSW on the road to success, are being asked to bite the bullet. Shouldn't they at least be given the opportunity to try and run the extra layers. There are players on PC who have machines that are older than the oldest last gen consoles who will struggle with this route, but presumably they will get the full monty.

    And it's all very well for those lucky people who have PS5 and its MS cousin to tell last genners to lump it or get with the rising tide, but let's not forget that there are many players who simply cannot afford it, perhaps because they're still in their teens or for other reasons. We have a lot of youngsters here, you know.

    Of course, DTG eventually would have to "move on", so to speak, but the rest of us should not be so cavalier and, in some cases, smug about it. I don't want to say mean spirited, but i'm reading it in some posts. I think PS4 players should have gotten a discount.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  4. railwaykid04

    railwaykid04 New Member

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    Dovetail games,

    Are we able to walk on all 19 platforms at Victoria?

    can I also say that you have done a fantastic job on this route the amount of services, I was expecting 550 - 650 maximum, there is 1
     
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  5. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    The beauty of consoles is that they all run the same. Why do you want them to release a special "let us try" version which they know will be glitchy and crash all the time? You really think that maybe you've got a special PS4 which might work differently to all the others?

    Once again, the RH season pass gets you this brand new, best-ever route for a tenner. You want to pay less than that? But then you want to have to pay again for an upgrade to the 'full' version when you eventually upgrade your console? Think it through.
     
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  6. kevin.charb81

    kevin.charb81 Well-Known Member

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    I can’t remember the last time I was this blown away by a preview stream. Very impressed!
     
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  7. NickFarrant

    NickFarrant Active Member

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    Just want to add my appreciation, looks absolutely fantastic.
    Big well done DTG, seriously impressed from what I have seen on stream.

    It was a great stream, thoroughly enjoyed. I would also like to add my appreciation to Joe, fantastic work on those timetables and it was clear he had a genuine love for the game and his work.

    Look forward to playing soon. Bravo DTG.

    Nick
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
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  8. Jasonic

    Jasonic Member

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    Looks very good well done to everyone and well done Joe for the timetable.
    Couple of observations, the cab does not seem to go dark in the tunnels and also the drivers door would be interlocked so can not be opened on the move.
     
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  9. derailed#9363

    derailed#9363 Member

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    I agree but I definitely understand the last gens are coming to an end soon and there's only so much DTG can do with them, however DTG should of just given Last gen players the Class 66 & 375 as a extra layer or for free and decreased the amount of Electrostar services. The fact the we will get 0 layers is a hard bullet to bite and as you said a lot of people aren't in a financial position to upgrade to next gen/PC. I believe that DTG need to try and find a way to be more fair to last gen players especially the PS4 players.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
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  10. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, alas as a ps4 player I am resigned to my fate now. Most likely less than 11 months of dlc left before DTG pull the plug on ps4. Some might say quite right, others too soon, for me the £350 - £500 upgrade to ps5 is not worth it for just tsw2,,,, next two years,,, might think about. Stujoys comments earlier very valid. A odd day, great new route but also a nod to the end of last gen
     
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  11. locobilly

    locobilly Member

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    Some of the real thing. It's got to be said my photos are barely any better than the screenies which says a lot about the ability of the DTG modellers and artists.
     

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    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
  12. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

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    I’m really surprised. I nearly didn’t buy the season pass as I only expected to like Riesa Dresden but I’m really pleasantly surprised. This is what I hoped Rush Hour would be like. What an awesome timetable.

    Really looking forward to this, Just hoping everything will show up on PS5
     
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  13. ItsYa165

    ItsYa165 Well-Known Member

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    TrainSim-Matt After watching the preview stream, the Class 377 at least is missing dedicated or not loud enough interior track joint sounds. I've been banging on about this during the stream but clearly have been missed. These sounds are deep level bass (and quelle surprise I've provided some, if by magic - speak to Sam) and without them it feels like the line is welded all the way through when sat inside. For a passenger experience, this is going to feel really dead given how violent the journey actually is.

    Listen here at 2:35 ... gets extrememly viscious at 2:50 - 3:00.


    I deliberately uploaded this because I thought this might happen. It would be great if you could nail it because this actually is from London Victoria going south.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
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  14. marcsharp2

    marcsharp2 Well-Known Member

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    Based on what I've seen tonight, granted it was on PC and me on my PS4 won't get the full impact until I upgrade.... It's astonishing, When Matt scrolled down at the end just how many playable services there are, My jaw was on the floor. Absolutely well done.
     
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  15. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    It's not about the number of services, it's about the number of different trains loaded into memory.

    Maybe another layer is possible on the PS4, BUT if they do ever add the Thameslink 700 services, which there's a gap for in the timetable, I would imagine that would need to be open to PS4 players, so perhaps they're saving resources for that.
     
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  16. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    I have to say that the stream was good tonight. The new sounds for the 377 are better than the ECW ones (no surprise there as they used AP sounds).
    You get the planes flying over at Gatwick (like they do in the TS version).
    The new scrolling PIS looks good and the one inside works too.
    There were frame drops at certain points during the route but that's to be expected with the amount of detail that needs to be loaded.

    Now, I can understand that PS4 and XB1 players are frustrated by the lack of layering onto BML but as Matt explained tonight, it's too unstable for them to be added (the same as layers on HMA). Even if they were AI only they still have to be loaded into the memory and the older consoles are pretty much on the limit being almost 10 years old now.
    You'd be the first to complain if they added the layers and then your console decided it was going to overheat and stop working altogether.
    1000+ services with lots of variations is quite good for the older systems.
    BML is pushing what is possible on the older consoles.
     
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  17. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    I noticed this as well and they have also dialled back the internal air conditioning 'whir' too far and it is way too quiet now.

    Keen to get londonmidlands opinion on the first look.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
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  18. thesquire

    thesquire New Member

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    Never been so impressed by a preview stream before! DTG have really set a high bar with the big timetable. Looking forward to getting my hands on it.

    Does anyone know if we are going to be able to run some of the local stopping services via battersea etc?
     
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  19. matthew90

    matthew90 New Member

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    Fantastic stream. I am now even more excited. You could really tell how much this timetable meant to Joe which was great. Sorry to be that guy, but with the written in cab numbering there is a space on the second line. In the actual cab there is no gap. (hardly the worst oversight we could of had tbf). Bring on the 7th!
     
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  20. james64

    james64 Well-Known Member

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    The route looks fantastic. I've never been more excited for a TSW route.

    The highlight of the stream for me was definitely Joe. It's fantastic to see someone genuinely passionate and knowledgeable about his local route, and without him I don't think this route would be half as special.

    My only criticism (and it is very minor) is the lack of step lights on the 387. I was whining about it in the chat hoping Matt or someone else would notice but it fell on deaf ears. It's one of the things that add character to the 387, as well as something that sets it apart from the 377, so it's a terrible shame that it's absent.
     
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  21. taybarker20

    taybarker20 Active Member

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    Only other thing I was gutted about is stewards Lane depot not being accessible
     
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  22. MisterV

    MisterV Member

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    Have to admit BML was never one of my favorites on TS1 but I'm getting very excited to play this now. The route looks fantastic and the amount of work Joe has put into the timetable is incredible. Thursday cannot come quick enough now.
     
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  23. derailed#9363

    derailed#9363 Member

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    You have made a good point. But at the same token can you explain why the Dresden RH route got 7 trains and last gen were able to cope?
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
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  24. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Haven't seen the stream but pertinent to point out... unless the save/load game bug is fixed it doesn't matter how many services there are, if you can't keep things going between sessions.
     
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  25. Conrad

    Conrad Member

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    What are the dlc that I have to buy to see all the layers on PS5?
     
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  26. derailed#9363

    derailed#9363 Member

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    Southeastern Highspeed route, Class 465, Great Western Railway Route
     
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  27. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Yes. From the stream at 39mins you can see from the available driveable services that West Croydon is shown, these service stops at Battersea Park. Elsewhere, at around 18 mins 30 seconds in stream, the PIS shows Balham as one of the stopping points. Hope that answers your question.
     
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  28. marcsharp2

    marcsharp2 Well-Known Member

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    At times I've often thought Matt has been patronising to Console users but tonight when he explained why PS4 and Xbox one users can't get the extra layers, It made sense, if not having South Eastern AI stock means I can drive over 1,000 services, Yeah I'm happy with that.
     
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  29. Tay95

    Tay95 Well-Known Member

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    Great stream, Victoria looks great as does East Croydon and Gatwick. Can't wait to see the 166 in action
     
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  30. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    Also ECW for the 2 class 66 freight services
     
  31. jackthelad258

    jackthelad258 Active Member

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    As a last-gen console user here, I’m a little bit disappointed about the lack of additional layers some of us will miss out on but it is perfectly understandable.

    Can someone from DTG confirm how many services last-gen users will get?
     
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  32. thesquire

    thesquire New Member

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    Very helpful, thank you
     
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  33. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    PS4 and XB1 users will get 1237 services to drive just using the class 377's and the class 387's.
     
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  34. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Just reached the end of the stream, just a quick observation, anyone else notice that at 1hr 46mins 15 seconds that there seems to be no AI from ECW at Brighton - the PIS for Platform 6 was empty. Also, I saw as the train went past Wivelsfield, the PIS was also blank.

    Could Joethefish confirm if ECW and WCW AI will exist at Brighton on London Commuter?
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2021
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  35. jackthelad258

    jackthelad258 Active Member

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    Thanks, much appreciated.
     
  36. Mat_Jam_Ca

    Mat_Jam_Ca Well-Known Member

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    It might have something to do with the 313 but I might be barking up the wrong tree.
     
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  37. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Hmm possibly, but at least on the ECW timetable, platform 6 was used mostly by Ore/Hastings-bound 377s - I really hope these AI services are not missing. Other than that, extremely pleased.
     
  38. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Why they don’t answer the questions About SDO?
     
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  39. jackthelad258

    jackthelad258 Active Member

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    On the ECW we saw AI driven services bound for London Victoria and for services on the WCW, so I’d expect something similar for the London Commuter route. I’d be surprised if these AI services will be missing.
     
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  40. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    they did, not included.
     
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  41. ade4472

    ade4472 Member

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    Hmm Victoria to Exeter Central in the future? Class 50 anyone in NSE?
     
  42. coursetim

    coursetim Member

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    I have to say its really refreshing to see how Passionate Joe was and how much time and effort he's put into this! Honestly I can't state enough how refreshing it is to see! Especially with all of the ins and outs and small details! Fantastic work!

    Honestly it makes this route stand out for me well above the others and its been very well done from dtg!
     
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  43. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    Looked fantastic on the stream. Can't wait for next week!!!
     
  44. trainsimgaming1001

    trainsimgaming1001 Well-Known Member

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    With the slow but sure decline in Support for the Last Gen, I think it will be discontinued or maybe given a Legacy Edition which gives access to the new routes but none of the new features, similar to FIFA 19 on Xbox 360 and PS3. I think the PS4/Xbox One, they are far too old to have a Modern Game on a Modern Engine developed on them and run well, especially when that game needs to run on 3 Other Platforms, all of which have the Capability for Better Graphics, Larger Routes, Massive Timetables, More Layers, etc. With the Munich Layers cut, and now the BML layers cut, what could be next? Smaller Base Timetables? As a Personal Experience, back when I had xbox game pass, just to see how TSW 2020 ran, I downloaded it on my console, and Compared to the Consistent 50-60 FPS I get on PC, I was getting an average of 20 FPS on my Xbox One S. That shows that even before TSW 2 and subsequently Layers, Rush Hour, and large timetables were a Thing, what was then Current-Gen was having issues, meaning the only real option was PC, as there was no XSX or PS5 available then. If Dovetail discontinued TSW last gen, this would happen:
    The Last Gen Players would be outraged
    But with the Trade Off that routes and locos would be made quicker, as there would be 2 less platforms to test, especially with playstation, as how different the PS5 is software-wise to the PS4, meaning less Development and mainly testing time
    Timetables would be alot bigger. The 1000 ish services on BML has never happened before because of how intensive it is on Last Gen
    Routes would be Longer. While the Game works on a Tile System that only loads tiles in the Appropriate Area, the Increased Storage on PC and Next Gen would allow Longer Routes or Routes with more Branches
    Steam would be more Viable. One of my main concerns with steam is how it is going to run on Last Gen. With the already bad performance from Last Gen, I can imagine Steam Engines bringing a Last Gen Console and even a Lower Speced Gaming PC to its knees, with the only solution being to make it PS5-Xbox Series X|S-PC exclusives or to Discontinue Last Gen
    Routes would be alot more detailed. One thing alot of Players, particially those playing with Rivet Products, complain about is Terrible Scenary. I think Rivet does this to avoid destroying last gen. Last Gen Discontinued would likely mean better rivet routes
     
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  45. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I’ve not had to to watch the stream properly, however I’ll be sure to make a full in depth first impressions review :)
     
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  46. KMAN

    KMAN Active Member

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    Services for London Commuter
    Class 66 (Playable) - 2
    Class 166 (Playable) - 121
    Class 375 (Playable) - 65
    Class 377 (Playable) - 1059
    Class 387 (Playable) - 178
    Class 43 AI Only (GWR Diversion into Waterloo)
    Class 465 AI Only (SE Services out/In Victoria)
     
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  47. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    They did. It doesn't work
     
  48. dan5324

    dan5324 Active Member

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    according to matt they are trying to bring in release mode as per reality where doors are released, but passengers press the buttons to actually open the doors themselves. Think that’s a bit pie in the sky tbh. But we shall see.
     
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  49. Joethefish

    Joethefish Well-Known Member

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    I have to say I'm super glad you guys loved what your saw! The overwhelmingly positive response has left me stunned! :D Been itching to give you all this information for months now.

    Hope you like those HST and 375 diverts, wasn't too sure how far we could push the limit of realism before it becomes silly lol
    Probably just unfortunate timing. The services along the WCW and ECW that are run by 377s are represented. :) The ECW 377 will alternate between P7 & 8 (which when seeing the timings worked out perfectly between departures/arrivals of other services.) In my guess, P5 & 6 looked to be reserved for Thameslink, so that is why the PIS is blank for those.

    Oh and for the ECW 377... you might like this detail... there are services to Seaford that are run by a single 377. That unit I think does one or two in the morning, before running Seaford-Lewes and coupling with a train from Eastbourne (Eastbourne direction at least), then running to London Victoria. IIRC that service is playable from Wivelsfield but I'm not at my PC to 100% confirm that (forgive me, it's been a while since I did that one :D).

    The 377 I think spends they day running 1A London Victoria-Brighton services before running 1F96 London Victoria to Seaford & Ore, playable to Wivelsfield, highly recommended btw. The rear 4 car will split at Lewes and run to Seaford, where after that it spends the rest of the evening running Seaford-Brighton services. So that's cool to have represented :D

    Oh and while you're at Brighton... keep an eye out for something different on platform 1. ;)
     
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  50. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Class 313 ;)
    Would you also reworked the East Coastway Timetable because it’s not accurate ​
     
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