Train Sim World 2 - London Commuter South Downs Spectacle

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Oct 1, 2021.

  1. Joethefish

    Joethefish Well-Known Member

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    Haha... I meant something less common, something less frequent, something less... electric... ;)
    I'll be fully booked on future timetables now. Sorry. :|
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  2. coursetim

    coursetim Member

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    Not the gwr service that runs to Brighton from Great Malvern? I think it maybe be a single service each way? I ended up on it twice earlier in the month on my way through Brighton?
     
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  3. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    You know, admist this whole discussion about layers on last gen, one of the key things that I think people are missing here is how come there's a massive difference between the timetable on Dresden vs. the one on London - Brighton?

    For context, we've been told by Matt that the raw number of services isn't what impacts performance. One train with one service compared to a thousand services, it's not a big difference. But having two or more trains with X amount of services is what does impact performance. Each train/cab has to be loaded into RAM on each session.

    So, okay, that's fair enough actually.
    But then why is it that on Dresden I can select almost 6 or 8 different train/cabs, and that's all fine and dandy, but then on London - Brighton I'll crash if I have the other layers active?
    Do the Electrostars really eat up THAT much memory?????



    My question is, what exactly is it that's going on here??
    I'm quite happy about the new London route, but there's some genuine questions to be had about layers and how efficient the memory usage is.
    Because at the moment, the answers we get from DTG and what we see in game seems to contradict each other. Again, why can I select from a large variety of different cabs on Riesa - Dresden (a route from the same Rush Hour bundle), and yet I get only two cabs on London, despite being quoted that the performance hit is because of the variety of trains, not the service amount.
    See the issue?

    Keep in mind, this is not the difference between a console and PC, these differences in timetables can be observed within the same platform (I'm a PS4 user, for instance.)
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  4. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    This is a great point. As you say I remember Matt saying a while back that there is not much difference between having 1 service or 100 services of a single loco/unit, it's the presence of the loco/unit itself that makes the biggest difference. So why only 2 units for London-Brighton and 7+ for Riesa-Dresden?
     
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  5. Joethefish

    Joethefish Well-Known Member

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    Ta-daaaa :D
     
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  6. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    I just want to jump in here and laud more praise on Joe for the absolutely phenomenal timetable on London Victoria to Brighton. Holy cow, 1k+ services is incredible. I hope there’s a good offer on SEHS and the 465 so I can pick them up solely for the extra layers.
     
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  7. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I must say after watching this stream, I am impressed on how this route looks. The number of services on this route is very impressive as well. 1,000+ is madness. I could see myself spending hours on this route doing back and forth services from London to Gatwick and Brighton to London. Joe's passion for the route made the stream alot more enjoyable as well and perhaps he could be on future streams showcasing new routes that he worked on because his passion has made this stream at least very enjoyable to watch. It's nice that gatwick has planes landing. The trains have improved pis and scrolling pis on the inside of train. Hopefully scrolling pis on the inside of the train will be standard on all future tsw2 passenger routes that have scrolling pis inside the train.

    It's a shame though that last gen users won't have layers for this route. I don't really understand why though. On Riesa Dresden, that has 7 trains I believe and the number of services don't have a massive performance impact on any tsw2 route according to dtg, it's the number of different trains that does. Unless the electrostars,166, 465 and 66 take up alot of ram, it seems odd that on BRD, you have many trains running along that route but in this route for last gen, they can only use the 377 and 387. It's a good thing i managed to get a series x last year then although personally I don't think it's fair that they can't get access to it and has me raising an eyebrow a little bit considering last gen can have more trains on brd than in this route. I've seen some say just to buy a next gen console but that really isn't a fair thing to say considering it's not particularly easy to find one and maybe for some it may not make financial sense to buy one at this time so i can see why some are frustrated

    With the way rush hour released, I didn't buy the season ticket and if things continue to look good then this will be the only rush hour route I will buy. From what I've seen, dtg have done a pretty decent job and this could easily be the best British route they ever released.
     
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  8. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    You and James deserve all the praise, superb work. The 375s were a great addition, gives those who own the 375 an added bonus while boosting traffic on the slow line.
    Sounds great, thanks for confirming Joe.
    Fascinating stuff, the detail is astounding - I'll have to note down that 1F96 service as one of the first to play too. Thanks for the tip regarding platform 1, sounds intriguing. :cool:
     
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  9. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    I said this was going to happen when they announced Rush Hour details back on May 4th. The old generation just can't handle it.

    A whole bunch of people said I was crazy, they wouldn't do that. Why would you expect to have all the layers, your running at PC low graphics settings and barely able to get 30fps. What makes you think adding more detail won't make things worse?

    As for paying the same price perhaps you should be paying less since you are not going to get the full experience on most new content. I don't disagree but it is unreasonable to demand they give the same product especially if it's just going to crash the game. Running 3/4 of the services is still better than not being able to run it at all.

    And it sounds like the crash issue the older consoles are having at Dresden is the same so I would expect they will be taking the layers away like they did with Munich.

    And the main problem is the more layers they add the more RAM gets used up. So unless you can find a way to increase your RAM nothing is going to change. They have said in many streams they have hit the barrier for memory optimization on older consoles. The upgrade to 4.26 was supposed to fix things but it didn't and made things worse.

    But I really can't see them continuing to support the older consoles past summer 2023.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  10. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    I quite agree. Personally I would have rather had a reduced 377 timetable to allow for the 166s and freights to be used. I was really quite disappointed when they announced this.
     
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  11. locobilly

    locobilly Member

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    Watched the stream last night on this new route and was very impressed. When Matt took us down to the end of platform 15 at Victoria whilst they discussed the dlc was amazing - I felt like I was rail-fanning there watching all the rolling stock of different types coming in and leaving the terminus. Cool.
    Only small thing is Clapham Jct. looks a bit empty without the blue/red South West Railways services on the west side tracks, but I appreciate that it would hardly be worth putting them in just for this area. Maybe one day.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  12. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    I need finally the Class 33 on longer routes like Railway tours, did they drive on East Coastway or Brighton Mainline?

    Joethefish can you tell me if there trains that stop at every Station at any hour or just Express Trains in the Timetable?
    Some people said it was missing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  13. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Member

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    The number of different types of trains that are console can handle is not static.

    The question you have to ask is not "how many trains can fit in the memory of the console" but "how many trains can fit in memory alongside the LARGEST tile of the route they run on". Matt said that Victoria Station is a memory hog, almost certainly more so than Dresden. They are obviously pushing the limits with Dresden as it is as there are many reports of a crash as you approach (i.e. the station is loaded into memory), usually when an ICE is also entering/ leaving.

    If they can optimise the route more they may be able to add extra layers in future but until then it's a question of more layers OR authentic scenery on Gen 8 consoles, where as currently Gen 9 can have both.

    To me this just shows that DGT are giving Gen 8 players the best deal they can on a per route basis (without holding Gen 9 / PC back) and you can't really say fairer than that.
     
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  14. derailed#9363

    derailed#9363 Member

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    T
    Good points you’ve made about discontinuing but I feel they wouldn’t discontinue just yet. Only because there is still more people on the last gen than the new gen and that will effect their pockets if they plug the plug right now. I say they’ll discontinue last gen maybe around 2023-25
     
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  15. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    Route looks really good , I’m looking forward to playing it
     
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  16. jakeshortj#6259

    jakeshortj#6259 New Member

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    I’d echo what others are saying about the sheer amount of services- it’s a huge achievement and on the stream I could just see how proud the team are of what they’ve put together for this which is absolutely amazing to see and very well deserved from what I could see!

    I only had one (very minor in the grand scheme of things) issue to point out with the bridges in the Streatham Common area- the bridge carrying the southern services from Victoria to Epsom/Dorking is more of a truss style of bridge. (He says that while travelling over it!). But that’s honestly minor compared to how good the content on stream was- super excited for it!
     
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  17. Joethefish

    Joethefish Well-Known Member

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    Yep! Nearly every Southern service has been represented and this includes the Southern Metro services. :)
     
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  18. mldaureol2

    mldaureol2 Active Member

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    excellent news
    Thanks a lot for your hard work.
    Mike.
     
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  19. merseyemu

    merseyemu Member

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    I know Matt said on the stream there was no plan to link ECW to this route, but I think with Joe mentioning in a reply to a post on here the services going from Victoria to Seaford are represented it would be great to one day be able to play the entire route.
     
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  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    For those saying they wouldn't pay £1000 for a few services. The new iPhones are around that mark. If you'd pay that for a phone/handheld computer then why not on a hobby you enjoy?

    If you're not bothered about the similar looking trains you can only drive for one stop, don't buy them. They only bring a splash of dark blue anyway
     
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  21. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Well-Known Member

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    Joethefish, Your work on this timetable is truly amazing and your passion is very clear. I thoroughly enjoyed the stream last night and your clearly a fountain if knowledge. Hopefully we can see you on preview streams and normal streams more often because you are a joy to listen to.
    My favourite part of the route is all the little details that you put in.
    For example the Hastings Diverts, I live at Hastings so I was thrilled when i heard you put them in. For people who don't know about the Hastings Diverts occasionally they close the section between Hildenbourgh up to Orpington or around there depending on the work they do. I believe I saw that this was the time they did work on Sevenoaks tunnel. It will look even more realistic than it already is becasue, I think all or at least the majority of the units on the last divert were all 375/9.
    Also the detail with 377163/377164, where they were given to Southeastern but not re-liveried.
    D6T7H5nWsAAPdcI.jpg
    Or even the wagon at Haywards Heath.

    You did a great job Joe.
     
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  22. screamfan

    screamfan Member

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    Rush Hour is becoming the most impressive DLC of TSW2, I think Dresden and Brighton will clearly be a starting point on Next Gen to reach a quality level that will improve with every new release. Dresden is already amazing .. I can't wait for Brighton
     
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  23. breblimator

    breblimator Well-Known Member

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    git gud arrived with the last releases
    and the yesterday's stream \o/ \o/ \o/
     
  24. Joethefish

    Joethefish Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the suggestion to go on stream mate! Not lying... It was your comment I read and thought "hmmmm that's a good idea" :D

    If I remember back in 2018, 377163 & 164 still had their Southern logos. :D

    Glad you like the Hastings diverts! I've seen them quite a few times myself. :D
     
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  25. locobilly

    locobilly Member

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    20210623_130017.jpg 20210623_123941.jpg 20210623_130049.jpg 20210623_125908.jpg 20210623_123941.jpg 20210623_130049.jpg 20210623_125908.jpg
    Very true, this release should be the yardstick by which all future releases are compared. I'd LOVE to see Liverpool Street get the same love. Just imagine the variety of trains and paint schemes that Greater Anglia have/carry. Then there'd be OG too, almost like a wet dream!
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  26. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    The route looks fantastic, but I do have some concerns, in particular, the lack of Overbridge at Hayward’s Heath is a bit strange as I don’t think I’ve ever seen just the multi-storey car park without the bridge. I may be wrong though.
     
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  27. kenobi#1878

    kenobi#1878 Active Member

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    I’m so excited
     
  28. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    I think we all are :)
     
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  29. kenobi#1878

    kenobi#1878 Active Member

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    The only services I won’t be able to drive are the SE 375s as I don’t have SEHS on my XSS. My first service is gonna be a GatEx service from Brighton to Victoria, what about anyone else?
     
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  30. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    I’ll be doing the same sort of service
     
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  31. Cd1990

    Cd1990 Active Member

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    Wow, I'm definitely glad I upgraded to the Series X. This looks amazing, and loving the upgraded sounds on the 377.

    DTG and Joethefish , you've done a fantastic job. Roll on Thursday and the weekend, I can finally drive the Brighton Main Line again! :D
     
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  32. ottselmaster

    ottselmaster Active Member

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    Wait so if your on ps4/xbox1 your getting LESS content for the same price? Thats pretty poor. I want to use more then 2 trains which look the exact same.
     
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  33. derailed#9363

    derailed#9363 Member

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    I personally wanted them for the variety factor where heading/leaving London Victoria, not for a driving factor.
     
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  34. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    That is correct . The trains aren’t completely the same though
     
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  35. ottselmaster

    ottselmaster Active Member

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    AT LEAST let us use the same amount of trains. This is seriously B.S.
     
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  36. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Well-Known Member

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    I’m glad I got you on the stream . Hopefully you will go on more in the future. As for the 163/164 I think you are correct that they didn’t get Southeastern till around mid 2019 I think.
     
  37. trainsimplayer

    trainsimplayer Well-Known Member

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    Technically everyone gets the same content, the Layers are seperate, see them as a bonus!

    Plus, I'd rather my Xbox doesn't actively turn into a box of fire...
     
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  38. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve seen some more questions about the route and timetable. Maybe it would be a good idea for you to be on the Wednesday preview stream as well. Wink wink
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2021
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  39. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    I just watched it, I enjoyed it thanks to YouTube's automatically translated subtitles, which are now finally always available on all new videos on the channel. My thanks again to those who made it possible after my requests on the forum.

    I just had to say that I loved it. The three of you were great, with a great sense of humour. You can tell that when they show something they know is great and well done they really enjoy it, especially Matt, he looks happy and proud in these situations.
    I love Natalie's friendliness and cordiality, that smile of hers transmits very good vibes.
    And what about Joe? His interventions were fantastic and reflected his passion for this route. All thanks are too little for the great work he has done with the timetable, for how much he has been involved and for all the time he has invested. People like that make it possible to turn something good into something outstanding. DTG is lucky to have someone of his talent in its ranks and Joe is also lucky to work at DTG because he can show all his creativity. Who knows what he will be capable of in the future, I'm sure he will give us a lot of joy.

    The route feels alive, it's amazing how much traffic there is. Those parallel runs with other trains are priceless. All those services with units coupling and uncoupling seem incredible to me.

    The trains, although we can't see anything really new that we haven't seen before, look as well modelled as ever. The sounds are also good, especially when we hear them from an external camera. From the inside, for my taste the track noise effects lack volume, especially when passing over crossings and intersections.

    It also looks like a very well constructed route, with a lot of detail. The views of London look very well done.
    I like the feeling when you get to Croydon, this is something I don't remember so far in TSW, i.e. going from big city-rural area-big city-rural area like here, because the big cities are usually at the ends of the route.
    I loved the detail of the planes at Gatwick.
    I can't imagine what this route would be like with the night lighting in Dresden.
    I do see some lighting issues in the tunnels and texture detail in some of the buildings, very noticeable where Matt stood for so long outside London Victoria at the beginning of the stream. Let's hope they fix it because it looked really bad.
    Also of note is that we will now have a bit more time to prepare the services at the start, something that had been very much demanded by the community.
    I'm sure I'm leaving out a lot of good things, but in short, I think this route is going to be amazing and I can't wait to enjoy it!
    on my ps5 on Thursday!
     
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  40. JealousSheep768

    JealousSheep768 Well-Known Member

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    A bonus that last gen should have as we have the same content
     
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  41. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Active Member

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    Well upgrade then or buy SEHS. Quite simple really. I've forked out the money for a series s, why should you get special treatment?
     
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  42. JealousSheep768

    JealousSheep768 Well-Known Member

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    Some people are not in the financial situation to do that. 250 quid is a lot of money
     
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  43. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Active Member

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    Then don't moan and don't purchase.
     
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  44. JealousSheep768

    JealousSheep768 Well-Known Member

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    A stopper to Reigate
     
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  45. JealousSheep768

    JealousSheep768 Well-Known Member

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    Why should we get the same content for the same amount of money? I wonder
     
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  46. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Active Member

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    Go back and read the article again. You are getting the same (377/387). However, your old machine(s) won't load the quantity of services and station size of London Victoria with 1,000+ services and extra AI (Totalling 4,000 I might add). As aforementioned, if you don't like it, don't buy it. Otherwise, don't moan. The hypocrisy of your comment about you should get the same, considering I have specifically updated my console to allow for usage of better layers (Riesa Dresden & Flight simulator for example) as they cannot physically handle yours or my outdated machine...
     
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  47. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, this very argument could be made on the other hand, you have to pay to increase your hardware power, £250-£500 to get 200 services, worth it?

    It’s not like no financial investment has to be made to access the extra layers.

    It’s a case of power limitation, there’s PC users who don’t have 4K capable machines, they don’t get price reductions because they can’t get the same experience.

    It’s only because DTG released the PS5/XSX/S version for free that next gen users didn’t have to pay to upgrade to an enhanced version of the game.

    In the end the development work from DTG is still the same to create the route and trains, so that’s why it’s the same price, the other stuff is just free on top, thanks to the increased power of other platforms.
     
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  48. locobilly

    locobilly Member

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    Yep the big red one for me too.
     
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  49. JealousSheep768

    JealousSheep768 Well-Known Member

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    Lower end PC's are around as bad as gen8 but they are getting the extra layers
     
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  50. saltychipz#3569

    saltychipz#3569 Well-Known Member

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    Because pretty much all PC’s can handle those layers
     
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