Train Sim World 2 - London Commuter South Downs Spectacle

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Oct 1, 2021.

  1. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Conceivably they could add a toggle in Settings, allowing a choice of "full traffic" and "reduced traffic," permitting a choice between the complete timetable and a streamlined, older-hardware-friendly timetable.
     
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  2. Train Sim 9723

    Train Sim 9723 Well-Known Member

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    DTG can’t add options that just crash games and consoles
     
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  3. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Agree JMB I think this or a alternative timetable are the best outcomes for last gen moving forward

    On the silence front do you think DTG are weighing up to come clean early and say last gen is done from rush hour onwards or do you think they are working away in the background looking at ways to avoid layer removal in Dresden and how to add on bml?

    I agree the silence is deafening with 4 days to go before their flagship route releases (hardly anything from protag/nat/jd/matt here on the forums to quell the tide layer based intrigue).

    In fairness to them this is a tough moment and not a call I would like to make either way if I was running a business
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
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  4. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    OK the point about not allowing options that crash hardware is a very valid one. I had forgotten that, so all the options would have to be guaranteed to work on that hardware, i.e. the full layer would just not be there to choose from.

    I think the optimisation is a long term project and it inches along. Sadly it is unlikely to work in the long term because on all other platforms they want to take advantage of the extra power. Just as it was said that GWE locos are resource hogs (relatively, due to their age), well the better night lighting might also be a resource hog compared to the old lighting, the XBox sound fix also sounds like it will use more resources. There really isn't much room when you consider there are multiple new items all looking to use more resources on systems with the least available spare resources.
     
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  5. 4-COR

    4-COR Well-Known Member

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    No footbridge just north of Salfords either
     
  6. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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    I think I've read the UE 4.26 knows which platform it is on. DTG could therefore insert a limit on how many layers you can have for each console
     
  7. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Some good points jmb, will be interested to see if Mr Protag is added to the Tuesday night roadmap stream as a sign the big guns are being pulled out to either give bad or good news (I note sam is often used when the chips are down, mainly due to being a great community advocate)
     
  8. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    That's very interesting Bob, do you have said link or is that just widely known? Excuse my ignorance here
     
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  9. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well I folded and bought the Season Pass, did a deal with my missus - I get the train sim stuff and she got the Dexter DVD box set!
     
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  10. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    Wow. Didn’t notice that. Shame that there is this much detail missing :(
    Hopefully it will be sorted. Still, can’t wait for the route :)
     
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  11. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    Your just have to fly from Yara to Gatwick Airport a few times.
     
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  12. Train Sim 9723

    Train Sim 9723 Well-Known Member

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    that could remain as a potential option to happen

    I think though, Most dlc’s tend to release with 2 loco’s at maximum on a usual basis therefore keeping last gen consoles to those 2 and pushing for increased layers on newer consoles seems more plausible way to go as you still get what you buy but if the system you are on can handle more then that’s what options open up

    it’s a simple version of “get what you pay for”
     
  13. Train Sim 9723

    Train Sim 9723 Well-Known Member

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    as mush as it would be great for those still on last gen consoles to keep getting layers it’s very unlikely to continue in my opinion as the best way as you say is optimisation, but that’s a long term goal and continued support for last gen I have high doubts is long term
     
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  14. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Kind of 50% agree with this, however I think DTG need time to get a message out before Thursday and define what this will mean for last gen moving forward. As stated by CK95 earlier it's the comms that is lacking at present, even if it is bad news I would rather a arrow to the heart now on last gen rather than death by a thousand paper cuts (missing layers in every dlc moving forward hence forth). At least then last gen customers can plan their move (dlc/hardware/another company that does train sim)
     
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  15. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    My initial thought when watching the action in London Victoria was good god... my old xbox could never handle that.

    To be honest I don't think DTG has the manpower for all the necessary optimization works in order to get this running with all layers on a xb1 / ps4.

    Furthermore I believe it's more up to the amount of power given by the newer machines that the layers could be enabled and not due to the optimizations.
    There is so much power available that probably not many optimizations were needed anyway.

    Of course a stupid comparison but if you want to achieve a certain laptime on a racetrack with a car with lets say 150 hp it's far harder to achieve than with a 600 hp car where the driver even could make mistakes- if that's achievable at all.

    Aside of my ongoing car comparisons I believe it would be such a massive amount of work to optimize 8th gen for layers that DTG had to hire more than 100 software engineers just for that - which unfortunately doesn't make much sense since in about 2 years the support will be dropped anyway.

    I also wouldn't have any hopes it could be
    achieved anyway - not even Sabine Schmitz got the old Transit around the Ring in under 10 min ;)
     
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  16. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Active Member

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    Hopefully, it would be close to Dresden Version automatically because I still don't like the view of the older route driving at night time especially, because the experience doesn't give off the real-life nighttime experience so far on the older route. Please make the night time view better, where the headlight illuminated in the dark and the nighttime experience going to be amazing and realistic
     
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  17. Factor41

    Factor41 Well-Known Member

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    I think it's probably fairly safe to assume that this will be the norm going forward. I imagine they'll produce the route, test any layers that are available and if they work, they'll allow them on last gens; if they cause problems, they won't. Sure, they're going to get the same argument about it being unfair every time, but as long as the core trains that people are buying with the route work as they should, that's got to be the way forward.

    It may be that third-party routes like WCL will be built with lower detail and smaller timetables than the all-singing, all-dancing DTG 'hero' routes, so layers may continue to be perfectly feasible for all consoles, but I certainly wouldn't expect DTG's boundary pushing and layers on the older hardware.
     
  18. Disintegration7

    Disintegration7 Well-Known Member

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    It's actually a remote Series X, not a One X, but yes, you are correct that the Xbox cloud version supports all layers- was just playing some HMA yesterday on my laptop while the wife was using the Xbox.

    It's a nice feature overall, and a semi-workaround on the layers issue for Gen8 Xbox players who have good internet speeds, but don't want/can't get a new console.
     
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  19. First capital connect

    First capital connect Well-Known Member

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    Can anyone let me know if some of the 387 are running southern services in this
    The only reason I bring this up is because at the end of the stream matt showed the 387 and 377 differences and he went aboard the 387 and the PIS said a southern service
    Just wondering
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
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  20. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    GX 387’s will run Southern services in the evenings as Southern pull their units off London - Brighton runs to instead run London - Littlehampton and other destinations.
     
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  21. First capital connect

    First capital connect Well-Known Member

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    Thank you nice to see DTG are doing this
     
  22. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Definitely, personally can’t wait to run them.

    Quick edit, searching ‘1A’ in the 387 timetable will give you all of the Southern services ran by the GX 387. (Thanks Joe).
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2021
  23. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    On the point that Matt made that there is little difference between 1 service and 1000 when using one train, it is in fact possible to force the game to crash by making the scenario planner load a wide variety of different trains.
    I'd say there's a lot more crossover now than there was between the PS3 and 4, to the extent where the new Xbox consoles and the PS5 have basically no exclusives, because most of them are being released on multiple consoles, which arguably limits the versions on the new consoles. There's a very long thread on GTPlanet that discusses the news that Gran Turismo 7 would also release on PS4 - it rather sums up the whole issue now.
    They said it was an error, likely because it was an AI-only service that hadn't been set up properly.
     
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  24. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    On the stream, did anyone confirm if the 387 will announce AWS&TPWS operational when the cab is activated?
     
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  25. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Well-Known Member

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    Can't remember if he set the cab up properly because the doors didn't open when he pressed the door button. Best to wait till Wednesday's stream when they are driving in the 387.
     
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  26. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    We only saw the cab for the 387 and where things were located. In the stream Matt activated the reverser just so he could show of the door sounds and let us hear the difference between the 387s and the 377s. Hopefully it will be shown on the stream this week.
     
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  27. ethan#3478

    ethan#3478 Member

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    Wednesday stream we should see matt driving the 387
     
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  28. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    Why would DTG waste time and money on the older console optimization when the consoles are going to be obsolete in a couple of years?

    It would be smarter to invest time and money in bettering the game for PC and next gen.
     
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  29. ethan#3478

    ethan#3478 Member

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    i pretty sure the main reason why they are is because this moment in time more people have the gen 8 consoles than next gen but once it gets to the points of more people having next gen they will stop i mean for all we know they may be tsw3 planned as the big update next year that may be when they supporting gen 8 however i reckon at Christmas or just after when i say just after i mean January early February maybe even mid February would be the earliest we see DTG stop supporting next gen
     
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  30. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Maybe because it is their biggest market at the current time? I find it a bit off when people say 'just go and buy a PS5' like it is nothing. This forum caters to many ages and many young folk cannot afford this but many parents can't either with families so have a bit consideration eh?

    Personally I'm on the PC and just spent a fortune on a new monitor and graphics card but I have total sympathy with the last Gen crowd, especially when DTG themselves said they were committed to last Gen and wouldn't make separate versions. I get that tech moves on and tech goes obsolete but if what they are saying is right and the last gen can't handle BML then why not add stuff to the last gen that it can handle? DTG are already doing separate versions for next gen and PC so why not a separate version for last gen, would make business sense if they are the largest market.

    Even a discount would be better than nothing. As for the route it does look good, can't say I'm blown away as it isn't my personal favourite but it looks good and might get it. As I understand it the 166 in BML will not be getting RailDriver support which is a real downer for me, how many of the other Loco's won't be getting RailDriver support? I realise RD isn't a priority for some but for me it is a deal breaker.
     
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  31. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    What, and just completely abandon the many gen8 players still full of enthusiasm for the game? Pretty callous thinking, I'd say. Lots of gen9 players forgetting where they came from and ignoring all the kids and others who can't afford to upgrade right now.
     
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  32. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Here is the thing DTG will never abandon the older consoles, many users simply cannot afford to upgrade to a new console because of the cost. Thus DTG has said that they will not abandon and will continue to invest time on getting the older consoles version to work.
     
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  33. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Never is a long time.

    That only stands for now as last year 2 thirds were on last gen, that boundary has very likely shifted and will continue to do so.

    DTG will eventually move on from them just as the users will.
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2021
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  34. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    It could take that time before some users can afford another newer console.
     
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  35. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    That may be the case, but you’d be a fool to believe that DTG will continue to support them after a couple of years.
     
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  36. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Thankfully I am a PC user, so my only issues are being able to afford a new motherboard, CPU and GPU.
     
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  37. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Me too, but the way prices are right now, it might be more cost effective to just buy a new gaming PC.
     
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  38. Cd1990

    Cd1990 Active Member

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    Joethefish, can you confirm if anything will stop at Earlswood, Salfords and/or Horley? Can't imagine there'd be too much without Thameslink trains in the timetable.
     
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  39. Joethefish

    Joethefish Well-Known Member

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    Without Thameslink, it's very limited. Emphasis on the very. The only station out of the three to get traffic is Horley, which has 1 a day.
     
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  40. Cd1990

    Cd1990 Active Member

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    Ah fair enough, that's what I thought. I'll just have to use them to do some spotting. Cheers! :)
     
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  41. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    Prices are definitely high at the moment thankfully I think I can hold out for now, but sometime soon I would need to get it done.
     
  42. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    I dont think DTG will abandone last gen consoles that quick, at least as long they make profit and the customerbase is there.

    But for sure they are not gonna hold back the potential of current tech on platforms because lastgen consoles cant handle it.

    Its gonna be likeley the way it is in london commuter now. So you get the full experience with current tech, and not the highend experience with lastgen, which doesnt make it to a bad experience.

    Im used to play on pc, so as with all software around it means: if your rig cant handle the performance its time to upgrade.
    My pc is 11 years old, beside ram and graphics its still the configuration from back then. (P6t deluxe mainboard..).

    I know in max 2 years its time to replace.
    Technology moves on. Thats the way it is.
     
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  43. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Meridian what is your opinion of releasing a separate timetable for last gen as a halfway house? As a pc user do you think this would be a reasonable adjustment to get layers working or do you think DTG are about to pull the dagger out on last gen a bit sooner than everyone thinks maybe before xmas?

    (P.s as a last gen user I would be disappointed by an axing before xmas but would prefer the early heads up from DTG)
     
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  44. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Good post and very balanced from a pc user, thank you for sharing :)
     
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  45. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    A second timetable has been added to Dresden for last gen due to the new branch some have reported this morning to accommodate the ice3. Did anyone see last night's stream to confirm? If so I wonder if the second timetable theory is coming for bml as many have stated?

    Pleased if this is true :)
     
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  46. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it would happen that soon there are still too many players who can't or haven't yet upgraded to the next generation. I figure Summer 2023 would be probable and the earliest when steam comes out. But that is just if they can't make steam work on the older gen. It might push them to stop sooner

    As much as people bash DTG's products and policies they really do care about the last gen players. But what is your definition of support. Support to me is to continue producing new content and fixing errors. But nowhere does support mean or require adding new features to a game. And the fact that they do have separate versions for the generations means they can tweak the older ones so that they run stable. Even if it means cutting out some features.

    Again the older gen is running full power and they are only getting PC low graphics at a semi stable 30fps and only have the minimum required RAM. To think there is anything that can be done on DTG's side to make the performance run as good as needed is just absurd. If anything MS and PS need to create stronger machines.

    Oh wait they did that, the PS5 and Xbox Series X/S.

    DTG doesn't need to waste time or money on the older console optimisation since they will be obsolete in a few years anyways, why else are other developers announcing the end of their runs on Gen 8? MS and PS will force peoples hand just like when they transferred from Xbox 360/PS3 to Xbox one/PS5. Within 3 years no one was making games or supporting the older generation. Why would you think this would be any different this time around?
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2021
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  47. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    I would think matt adding a extra timetable to Dresden last night on stream to help older gen out might go against this...

    However only part way through the stream, has anyone watched the whole thing yet to confirm how this will work for Dresden to accommodate the ice3 on last gen and how this will impact bml?

    Suspect maybe if the same approach is taken for Dresden for bml the smallest addition maybe the 166 as a start?
     
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  48. Skyz2020

    Skyz2020 Well-Known Member

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    Taken from pc thread after someone watched the entire stream in regard to layers (maybe this is the bml path for last gen...hopefully)
    "
    ICE3 services are disabled in the main timetable (used by journey mode etc) for PS4 and Xbox1 users due to memory issues since the ICE3 has so many unique wagons, and memory usage basically gets multiplied the more liveries you have for it. They added a secondary timetable though, which still includes the ICE services. So you can run those without problem, but the main timetable should be less prone to bugs and crashes from now on. Thanks to Matt for clearing this up just now!
    Flughafen branch isn’t 100% dead forever. Just like the Meißen branch, the tracks, signals and some scenery were all laid before work on it was stopped. Trains even run the entire length of it and open doors at some platforms. Theoretically, it could be finished and added within a few weeks like the Meißen branch, but Matt has repeatedly stated there are no plans for that to happen right now."
     
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  49. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    How does it go against this? You still aren't getting the full timetable in either situation. So you get Matts new updated timetable less the ICE, or you can use a reduced timetable that will let you do the ICE.

    I don't see how that is better than next gen that gets a full timetable running everytime you load the game.

    And if you read what I said nowhere did I say they weren't going to support it and make it run as efficient as they can. All I said is that their hands are tied with the hardware available to them that it will be impossible for the old gen to keep up with the advancements that they want to create, it is over 8 year old tech. So expect the older gen to miss out on some things they come up in the future.

    Even PC users have to upgrade their hardware, so the fact that in a few years the older console versions will be gone is not a new concept and has been repeating the same pattern for many years.

    Some people say "People don't think about the kids or parents who can't afford it" are wrong. But the fact is life isn't perfect and this is what happens in these technological times. No it's not fair but I've watched the same crap happen all the way back in the 80's and I don't see it changing. Here's a challenge.. get a tablet or phone that is at least 6 years old. Now try to download the games from the play store. You will see that more than half the games won't run.

    And it will be MS and PS that dictate when they stop supporting it not DTG. DTG will do what they can but they have already said the memory optimization on the roadmap does not apply to the older consoles. They have pretty much maxed it out with the 4.26 upgrade on what can be done.
     
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  50. SBos

    SBos Well-Known Member

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    All this talk about old consoles when in fact DTG can’t get the new consoles to work properly is just ridiculous. Why would anyone spend out over £400 for a disc version of the PS5 after reading all the issues about missing purchased routes. It’s now gone into months rather than weeks since the issue came to light.

    Yes we all know they are working on it but given the length of time and DTG’s performance on other issues why would anyone upgrade until it is resolved.
     
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